SconeScout Posted January 4, 2016 Report Share Posted January 4, 2016 Okay, so I'm a complete noob when it comes to Cosmere theories and all, but reading Sanderson just makes me crazy. So shoot me down anytime people The theory is simple but hard to explain due to the lack of evidence. I've been lurking around a lot of other threads and pretty much connected some dots. Each Shardworld has a specific number of people that exhibit powers/control above average for their respective form of Investiture. These powers in no way exemplifies the Intent of their Shard, but somehow the choosing or Initiation process do. For now let's call these people as a whole as Champions--for lack of a better term. A lot of explaining and logical leaps, I know. The actual theory though, is how Odium 'kills' other Shards. They may seem unrelated at first glance but what if it's as simple as turning or making these Champions change? It's a stretch but it somehow fits with the Catacendre in Roshar, AND also feels right up Rayse's alley. Chaos and all that. What if, in some way, "Odium reigns" means "Chaos has corrupted that in which we believe in"? Thoughts? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skaa Posted January 4, 2016 Report Share Posted January 4, 2016 (edited) This reminds me of ROSHtafARian's old theory about Splintering Shards by using their Investiture against their Intent. The evidence we find on Roshar appears to point that way, but I don't know if we have any new evidence since that theory was first proposed except perhaps for the WoR scenes showing just how messed up some of the Heralds have become after Aharietiam. "Chaos has corrupted that in which we believe in" Hey! What has Eric ever done to you to deserve that? Edited January 5, 2016 by skaa 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blightsong Posted January 4, 2016 Report Share Posted January 4, 2016 I think the question everyone out to make a shattering theory should ask themselves is "Could this have happened to Adonalsium". We know that he was shattered in the same way Odium shatters Shard so I don't think intent had much to do with it, since Adonalsium had over a dozen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormgate Posted January 4, 2016 Report Share Posted January 4, 2016 I blame aluminum. The metal that neutralizes all Investiture. I'm not sure how it was used, but I blame aluminum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paragrin Posted January 4, 2016 Report Share Posted January 4, 2016 The Catacendre was Saze remaking Scadrial. I think you mean the Recreance, the betrayal of the Radiants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skaa Posted January 5, 2016 Report Share Posted January 5, 2016 Also, it might be useful to remember these naming conventions: "Shattering" usually refers to the event when Adonalsium was split into the 16 Shards. A Shard being split is usually termed "Splintering", not "Shattering". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgedancer Posted January 5, 2016 Report Share Posted January 5, 2016 I blame aluminum. The metal that neutralizes all Investiture. I'm not sure how it was used, but I blame aluminum. Not sure how accurate it is to say that aluminum can neutralize all Investiture, given that it can still be used/altered by the metalic arts. I certainly doubt that something as simple as aluminum could hurt a Shard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata Posted January 5, 2016 Report Share Posted January 5, 2016 Also, it might be useful to remember these naming conventions: "Shattering" usually refers to the event when Adonalsium was split into the 16 Shards. A Shard being split is usually termed "Splintering", not "Shattering". Well there are two different type of "breaking" events. The Shattering are a "breaking" in both Power and Investiture. The Splintering are just a "breaking in the Power (a Splinter is just a Tiny Shard) Anyway I am a doubt, we have some WoB about "Is it possible to Shatter a Shard ?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted January 5, 2016 Report Share Posted January 5, 2016 Well there are two different type of "breaking" events. The Shattering are a "breaking" in both Power and Investiture. The Splintering are just a "breaking in the Power (a Splinter is just a Tiny Shard) Anyway I am a doubt, we have some WoB about "Is it possible to Shatter a Shard ?" Splintering a Shard is the same thing that happened at the Shattering. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata Posted January 5, 2016 Report Share Posted January 5, 2016 Splintering a Shard is the same thing that happened at the Shattering. Wow I made a (probably) complete wrong idea about 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SconeScout Posted January 5, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2016 Well that's a shutdown. but thanks for the thoughts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormgate Posted January 5, 2016 Report Share Posted January 5, 2016 Not sure how accurate it is to say that aluminum can neutralize all Investiture, given that it can still be used/altered by the metalic arts. I certainly doubt that something as simple as aluminum could hurt a Shard. I'm mostly focusing on everything but Feruchemy and Hemalurgy, although those do have interesting effects. If you get a lot of aluminum, it might work. Might. Maybe they have Invested Aluminum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoidhunter Posted January 6, 2016 Report Share Posted January 6, 2016 I'm mostly focusing on everything but Feruchemy and Hemalurgy, although those do have interesting effects. If you get a lot of aluminum, it might work. Might. Maybe they have Invested Aluminum. I would say that Hemalurgy is probably the most connected to the shattering of Adonalsium. We know that it is some way universal to use in conjunction with any magic system...and...that it works to diminish the presence of invested life forms. I haven't worked it out all the way...but I have a hunch that the creation and use of Hemalurgy is somehow tied to the shattering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oversleep Posted January 6, 2016 Report Share Posted January 6, 2016 I would say that Hemalurgy is probably the most connected to the shattering of Adonalsium. We know that it is some way universal to use in conjunction with any magic system...and...that it works to diminish the presence of invested life forms. I haven't worked it out all the way...but I have a hunch that the creation and use of Hemalurgy is somehow tied to the shattering. But didn't Hemalurgy emerge only after the Shattering? It is of Ruin, so logically it would only exist after he Invested his power in Scadrial. There is a WoB that pre-Shattering magic was very different from that post-Shattering; that it wasn't something you use, but something you interact with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamEternal Posted January 6, 2016 Report Share Posted January 6, 2016 There is a WoB that pre-Shattering magic was very different from that post-Shattering; that it wasn't something you use, but something you interact with. Not exactly true, that WoB was especifically about minor shardworlds, not more invested places like Yolen and Roshar. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skaa Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 (edited) But didn't Hemalurgy emerge only after the Shattering? It is of Ruin, so logically it would only exist after he Invested his power in Scadrial. Ruin was part of Adonalsium. I think it's totally possible that there's a ruinous aspect in at least one of Adonalsium's manifestations of Investiture. It probably wasn't necessarily metal-based, though. There is a WoB that pre-Shattering magic was very different from that post-Shattering; that it wasn't something you use, but something you interact with. @DreamEternal is correct. Besides, we know that Hoid has been Lightweaving even before the Shattering. Edited January 7, 2016 by skaa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoidhunter Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 (edited) But didn't Hemalurgy emerge only after the Shattering? It is of Ruin, so logically it would only exist after he Invested his power in Scadrial. There is a WoB that pre-Shattering magic was very different from that post-Shattering; that it wasn't something you use, but something you interact with. Yes and no...you may be right about it not existing until after the shattering...but I believe that Hemalurgy is something that exists in some form for all shard worlds...even without Ruin's presence or influence...it's pan-cosmere influence is what makes me think that it's importance and possibly diabolical nature have simply not been revealed yet...but I've been wrong about things before. Edited January 7, 2016 by Moogle Removed political comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oversleep Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 Q: What differentiates a minor Shardworld like First of the Sun? B: The amount of Investiture, and whether there is actually a Shard in presence. Q: I’m assuming there is not one there? B: There is not one there. Q: So it’s like a Splintered one from something else? B: No what you’ll find is that the worlds were all created with a level of-- a little bit of sort of ambient magic. What you’ll find in worlds like that is things like, Shadows for Silence and things like this, the magic, it’s not necessarily “people with magic” it’s you can interact with nature... Q: So there is inherent investiture... B: There is inherent investiture in every world created but you are going to see-- You aren’t going to find Mistborn on a world like that but what you might find is a way there are magic aspects to the setting. Spren could exist on a world like that but they would be like the minor spren, you wouldn’t find Syl, but you would find something like lifespren. Well, before the Shattering and Shards Investing their power, all worlds were like this (without "people with magic", since no Shard Investiture). It is not much of a stretch to assume that (combined with the WoB about magic being very different pre-Shattering) all (maybe with exception of Yolen) magic worked like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skaa Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 I think reading the Liar of Partinel sample chapters might be useful for people who want to join this discussion. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 Well, before the Shattering and Shards Investing their power, all worlds were like this (without "people with magic", since no Shard Investiture). It is not much of a stretch to assume that (combined with the WoB about magic being very different pre-Shattering) all (maybe with exception of Yolen) magic worked like this. But we don't know how many large the Adonalsium's Influence was as "Mega-Shard". It's possible that Adonalsium could reach all the Cosmere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoidhunter Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 Right...so...investiture is everywhere...but it's application in varied...here it does this, here it does that...while we've only seen hemalurgy on scadrial...we've been told that it works in some way everywhere...it's destructive and it's parasitic,it requires death, it destroys investiture, and we get the feeling that it's bad overall. I'm thinking it wasn't a thing that Ruin invented...it was a tool that he employed. Sorry for the party foul by the way...I'll reign in it in... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 (edited) But Any Shard invented any Magic System. They "born" by the Interaction of Shard and Shardworld. A Magic System derivated by a specific Shard may be little manipulated by that Shard, but nothing more. And also other Magic Systems work everywhere. Edited January 7, 2016 by Yata Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Invested Beard Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 Wasn't the nature of Hemalurgy directly related to Ruin's intent in the FE books? Taking something and breaking it down into smaller and smaller peices? When someone is spiked some of the original power is lost. This doesn't necessarily mean it wasn't around before Ruin as Ruin was an aspect of the unshattered Adonalsium, but maybe it was in some different form or scaled back or something. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confused Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 This is interesting and strange. I'd like to see the WoB that Mason refers to in his question to MISTER Sanderson that Skaa cites. A host of ambiguity can be found in the words, splintering and shattering are "ESSENTIALLY the same." Sazed tells us that Shard mandates/intents arose as a consequence of the Shattering. Therefore, questions: 1. If Shattering and splintering are "essentially the same," then are mandates/intents irrelevant to the splintering process? 2. Why did the Shattering create mandates, but splinters carry the same mandated investiture as their original Shard? Anyone have answers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King's Twit Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 This is interesting and strange. I'd like to see the WoB that Mason refers to in his question to MISTER Sanderson that Skaa cites. A host of ambiguity can be found in the words, splintering and shattering are "ESSENTIALLY the same." Sazed tells us that Shard mandates/intents arose as a consequence of the Shattering. Therefore, questions: 1. If Shattering and splintering are "essentially the same," then are mandates/intents irrelevant to the splintering process? 2. Why did the Shattering create mandates, but splinters carry the same mandated investiture as their original Shard? Anyone have answers? The Shattering created such different Intents because it was (probably) the shattering of some type of consciousness, and each Shard got a fragment of Adonalsium's personality, or at least a piece of what may have been a multifaceted Intent, a "be God" Intent. Since the Intents of the Shards are often single-minded ideas (To preserve, to ruin), the Intents of anything that Splintered from those Shards could not be much different from that of the Shard itself. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts