Prologue, Chapters 1 & 2 (from Tor)

[Kurkistan he/him]

I like this one.  (Original Credit: Zarepath, though I Photoshopped-in the background)

 

Edited January 9, 2014 by Kurkistan

[PeterAhlstrom he/him]

I had to explain shipping to Brandon.

[Kurkistan he/him]

I had to explain shipping to Brandon.

 

I am so sorry. 

[FeatherWriter she/her]

Oh goodness... I can only imagine how that went. I feel... somewhat responsible as the person who kinda ended up bringing "shipping" as an entity over here to 17S. (Sorry, not sorry.)
 
On that topic, I'll go ahead and drop into the thread on behalf of the Shasnah camp, since Shallarin impacts seem pretty well discussed. Also, I've mostly discussed my thoughts on the matter over here. I will say that that camp Shasnah was rather pleased at the rather... extended description Shallan gave Jasnah when she comes on deck. (I don't even ship it and I raised an eyebrow at it.)
 

Shallan disagreed; the havah wasn’t prudish, but elegant. Indeed, the silk hugged the body, particularly through the bust—and the way the sailors gawked at Jasnah indicated they didn’t find the garment unflattering.
 
Jasnah was pretty. Lush of figure, tan of skin. Immaculate eyebrows, lips painted a deep red, hair up in a fine braid. Though Jasnah was twice Shallan’s age, her mature beauty was something to be admired, even envied. Why did the woman have to be so perfect?

 
Not to mention some of the Shasnauts picked up on Jasnah's mention of "particularly a man" to mean that she could be considering Shallan being beholden to someone who isn't a man... So that's out there as well.

[+eveorjoy she/her]

This was the case when there were still slaves in the US.  When one was freed, they had to have paperwork from the local court proclaiming them freed slaves.  I believe it was also common in ancient civilizations that freed slaves had to carry with them some token declaring their freedom

 

Historically accurate, but it still stinks. In fact it proves my point. Freemen whether, former slaves or not, in the US were kidnapped and sold into slavery.

 

Kaladin is not safe.

[Windrunner he/him]

Kaladin is not safe.

I'd like to meet the slaver that could force Kaladin to do anything against his will.

[marianmi]

Now, did nobody commented on the Parshendi songs? Their connection to Shadesmar?

Seems to me there is a deep connection there. 

 

Is Dawnchant maybe connected to Shadesmar too? 

 

And the Dawnsingers ... they are believed to be spren... but what if they really were ... parshmen???

[Kurkistan he/him]

Parshendi songs are not connected to Shadesmar, they're Spiritual. I think it fair to say that that was just a parallel that Jasnah drew.

Edited January 9, 2014 by Kurkistan

[Natans he/him]

Oh goodness... I can only imagine how that went. I feel... somewhat responsible as the person who kinda ended up bringing "shipping" as an entity over here to 17S. (Sorry, not sorry.)

 

On that topic, I'll go ahead and drop into the thread on behalf of the Shasnah camp, since Shallarin impacts seem pretty well discussed. Also, I've mostly discussed my thoughts on the matter over here. I will say that that camp Shasnah was rather pleased at the rather... extended description Shallan gave Jasnah when she comes on deck. (I don't even ship it and I raised an eyebrow at it.)

 

 

Not to mention some of the Shasnauts picked up on Jasnah's mention of "particularly a man" to mean that she could be considering Shallan being beholden to someone who isn't a man... So that's out there as well.

 

I vaguely remember warning you about this in some old topic.

 

Lady Feather you opened a very dangerous door indeed =)

[+eveorjoy she/her]

I'd like to meet the slaver that could force Kaladin to do anything against his will.

 

But can he protect himself and all his men? He doubts it. And Stormlight can be taken away.

[FeatherWriter she/her]

@Natans: Yes, yes. I accept full responsibility for the thing which I have unleashed.

 

Oh also, I should maybe post this here instead of just in a back thread where very few people are going to find it. I've been writing a bunch of keteks recently and decided to try writing one for the released chapters. It's kinda loose and not terribly elegant, but I'm sick of messing with it so I'm gonna go ahead and call it done. It's Jasnah themed:

 

Unseen nights of strangeness to worry and late returned demands

Her form’s darkness cast to light, storms spent surge anew,

Discovering glass among falling worlds, falling among glass, discovering new surges, 

Spending storm’s light to cast darkness, forming her demands

Returning late and worried to strangeness of nights unseen

Edited January 9, 2014 by FeatherWriter

[Windrunner he/him]

But can he protect himself and all his men? He doubts it. And Stormlight can be taken away.

I'm pretty sure he can take care of himself and his men. Szeth could kill hundreds, and Kal can hold Stormlight longer than him and can only grow more powerful. And it will be a rare slaver who knows to keep Stormlight, the most common source of light in the world, away from Kal. Not to mention his own cleverness and wit.

[+eveorjoy she/her]

I'm pretty sure he can take care of himself and his men. Szeth could kill hundreds, and Kal can hold Stormlight longer than him and can only grow more powerful. And it will be a rare slaver who knows to keep Stormlight, the most common source of light in the world, away from Kal. Not to mention his own cleverness and wit.

 

I'm just saying he doesn't think he is invincible and that will affect his decisions.

 

 

“We need to keep that man alive,” Kaladin said, looking back to the others. “I don’t know if I trust him, but he’s the only person on these Plains who has shown even a hint of compassion for bridgemen. If he dies, do you want to guess how long it will take his successor to sell us back to Sadeas?”

Skar snorted in derision. “I’d like to see them try with a Knight Radiant at our head.”

“I’m not a Radiant.”

“Fine, whatever,” Skar said. “Whatever you are, it will be tough for them to take us from you.”

“You think I can fight them all, Skar?” Kaladin said, meeting the older man’s eyes. “Dozens of Shardbearers? Tens of thousands of troops? You think one man could do that?”

“Not one man,” Skar said, stubborn. “You.”

“I’m not a god, Skar,” Kaladin said. “I can’t hold back the weight of ten armies.”  

 

And...

 

 

“I’ll storming start whatever I want,” Teft snapped. He leaned in, speaking softly. “At least until you give me a real answer. You’re a Surgebinder. You’re not a Radiant yet, but you’re going to be one when this is all blown through. The others are right to push you. Why don’t you go have a hike up to that Dalinar fellow, suck in some Stormlight, and make him recognize you as a lighteyes?”

Kaladin glanced at the men in a muddled jumble as they tried to get the uniforms on, an exasperated Rind explaining to them how to do up the coats.

“Everything I’ve ever had, Teft,” Kaladin whispered, “the lighteyes have taken from me. My family, my brother, my friends. More. More than you can imagine. They see what I have, and they take it.” He held up his hand, and could faintly make out a few glowing wisps trailing from his skin, since he knew what to look for. “They’ll take it. If they can find out what I do, they’ll take it.”

“Now, how in Kelek’s breath would they do that?”

“I don’t know,” Kaladin said. “I don’t know, Teft, but I can’t help feeling panic when I think about it. I can’t let them have this, can’t let them take it—or you men—from me. We remain quiet about what I can do. No more talk of it.”

 

Do I think he will be taken again as a slave? No, but he can be captured or killed and those he is protecting can be taken.

 

Edited January 9, 2014 by eveorjoy

[Moogle]

As has been said, killing the head of a nation while pretending to establish a peace treaty is an act of war. The Parshendii acknowledge the war and accept it.

 

And the thing I am trying to say, is that it doesn't have to be an act of war. Humans are not mindless machines. There is no law of physics that says "if your leader is killed, you must go to war." You don't have to go to war at the slightest provocation! We are not insects! We can plan out our actions, and look at the consequences.

 

Did the Vengeance Pact result in any of the people for Gavilar being killed? No, so far as I can tell, because Eshonai is still around and the three elders gave themselves up to the Alethi.

 

What did the war accomplish? A lot more dead Alethi, for one. This result could have been foreseen. There's a lot of dead Parshendi, too - none of whom are responsible or should be held to the actions of their leaders.

 

 

In your scenario: The bully's friends would be the people who gave the bully the right to lead by allowing them a leadership position. They accept certain responsibilities too. Also, the parshmen were working as laborers far before the assassination of Gavilar. It doesn't even tie in. The soldiers that fight and die on the Alethi side do so intentionally. It is pretty much a theme that Alethi soldiers are all aboard for this movement and their would be problems if anybody suggested it was better not to keep fighting. You are trying to take a global, political situation and turn it into something personal.

 

Some Alethi are drafted, so no, the Alethi soldiers don't all fight intentionally. They can't accept these responsibilities you're speaking of. Some probably do, yes, but do you think Kaladin or Tien would have been in Amaram's army without a forced draft?

 

And yes, there would be problems if somebody suggested it was better not to keep fighting. That doesn't mean everyone should sigh, go 'oh well', and just continue mass slaughters they don't agree with. Somebody has to be first and make the first rational move saying "You know, we don't have to kill each other." The issue is that their culture breeds into them to want slaughter. Blame Odium, and of course the people who know better, like Jasnah and Dalinar, not spending the effort to get in the way. Dalinar briefly considered trying for it, but then gave it up as unworkable at the first sign of resistance from Elhokar. You don't just give up at something because it's not easy, not when lives are at stake.

 

Dalinar could speak very loudly about attempting to beat the Parshendi, then sabotage his own war effort from the inside. Let armies get to the Parshendi late, put out fewer scouts, anything to slow down the battle. He doesn't, naturally. He instead wants to win the battle and kill all the Parshendi as some token of 'vengeance' (because the common Parshendi soldier dying in the fights for gemhearts was totally responsible for Gavilar's death), or else because he's afraid trying for the path of peace won't work. Either way makes me leery of the man, and certainly makes me question any praise he receives for being honorable.

 

Being a good person and not being ruled by your emotions and the desire for vengeance is not easy, but the lives saved would be the worth the effort. I hope Kaladin, at least, can bring Dalinar around. He's got the right idea of not trying to kill more Parshendi, at least.

 

Edit: Did I suddenly become Lirin? What the heck, I never liked that guy. I need to do a reread.

 

Edit2: Nope, brief glance at his chapters shows how different we are. I would have let Roshone die, for example. Lirin doesn't consider the consequences of his actions enough for my tastes.

Edited January 9, 2014 by Moogle

[JcStoneDog]

I loved the sample chapters and cant wait for the book!

 

Did anyone else think of The Warp (Warhammer 40k) when Shadesmar was explained? If fast travel is possible through Shadesmar then they are two takes on the same idea, with Shadesmar being the much nicer place. With that being said if Spern are ideals given life than I would not want to meet, Death, Fear, Anger or a number of other Spern in Shadesmar.

[Argent he/him]

Man, Kaladin is so going to have to work with Amaram...

[Moogle]

Man, Kaladin is so going to have to work with Amaram...

 

Very cruel on Sanderson's part. Hasn't he put Kaladin through enough?

[+eveorjoy she/her]

Very cruel on Sanderson's part. Hasn't he put Kaladin through enough?

 

Sanderson is never cruel without a point. If Kaladin is forced to work with Amaram something good will come out of it.

[hoser he/him]

Very cruel on Sanderson's part. Hasn't he put Kaladin through enough?

When Kaladin has been through enough (completed his character arc), then he can be killed off.  I hope he has a lot more suffering ahead.

 

Sanderson is never cruel without a point. If Kaladin is forced to work with Amaram something good will come out of it.

He has to work through whether he wants to go the way of vengeance (which, no matter how justifiable, is on the odious side) or advance on the Radiant path, at least. 

As the blurb says:

Kaladin struggles to wear the mantle of the Windrunners as his old demons resurface.

[Moogle]

Sanderson is never cruel without a point. If Kaladin is forced to work with Amaram something good will come out of it.

 

Oh, I could see Kaladin putting away his hatred of lighteyes at some point as a result of this. Not complaining! I'm actually interested in seeing where Kaladin goes, with having to work with Amaram. Kaladin makes for a really nice fleshed out hero, with some potential to turn into a sympathetic villain if he can't deal with his past (which would be understandable).

 

It just sort of sucks for Kaladin the short term. Poor guy.

Edited January 9, 2014 by Moogle

[Gamma Fiend he/him]

I just think it's a little tough to say, "well this character should have done this instead at this time", or anything of like as a reader. we have that advantage of having that top-down view of everything and obviously realize there is a larger picture going on. But all of these characters have been making logical, consistent decisions. It's not even like it was just the elite group of parshendi rulers making a decision for their whole race, from the Eshonai readings and everything else, all indications point towards the Parshendi pushing for war at all costs.

It seems to me at least that all of them are pushing to stop the Alethi from doing whatever they think it is the Altheti are going to do no matter what.

I'm not going to say who may be right or wrong. Because really, we only know so little still at this point. Yes, Alethkar is a competition and war driven culture. I obviously disagree with a lot of their structures. But in world reality, with the present characters and conditions, the Alethi response to the assassination of the king has been nothing more than appropriate.

[Moogle]

But in world reality, with the present characters and conditions, the Alethi response to the assassination of the king has been nothing more than appropriate.

 

What do you mean by appropriate? That it's appropriate to commit genocide when a member of a different race assassinates one of your race? Or are you saying that the Alethi's actions are consistent given their culture? If the second, I agree, and am not arguing otherwise. I'm bemoaning the culture itself, and the inability of the few people who seem capable of breaking out of it to do so.

 

The Alethi's problem here is more one of escalation - one person died, so they start a war to kill thousands, rather than just, say, demand the Parshendi leaders responsible for ordering the assassination for execution. Strong emotions do that, they make you want to repay tenfold any harm dealt to you. Professor Quirrel of HPMOR would say that the Alethi need to learn to lose. Imagine if a small argument was had between diplomats of two nations, which lead to a skirmish in a bar between people of differing nationalities, which lead to a war, which lead to the countries bringing out bigger and bigger weapons, and finally nuking each other. That's effectively what the Alethi started, with how they forced the Parshendi into stormform.

 

I'm hoping for a real hero out of this series capable of seeing this happening and putting their foot down and stopping it before it happens. Kaladin might fit the bill. Dalinar doesn't as of the end of TWOK. It would be appropriate if he was the one responsible for 'destroy[ing] us' out of Kaladin/Shallan/Szeth/Dalinar.

Edited January 9, 2014 by Moogle

[Cad he/him]

In the real world, I agree that war is bad and should be avoided if possible. In an epic fantasy book, however, the war between the Alethi and the Parshmen is necessary. It's the driving force of the whole story at this point. Without it there is a good chance Kaladin would be in Kharbranth studying to be a surgeon. It could even be possible that the war is going to be a cause of the Desolation, although that's just the feeling I'm getting at this point. Without the Vengeance Pact, the first few books would be a boring trial of the Alethi asking the Parshendi why they did it and the Parshendi not responding. The main characters are becoming the heroes they need to be to fight the Desolation because of the Parshendi war, whether you view it as justified or not.

[ADIMORTIS he/him]

One more snippet of info

Talenelat as Herald of War,

WOW!!!!

[Natans he/him]

I loved the sample chapters and cant wait for the book!

 

Did anyone else think of The Warp (Warhammer 40k) when Shadesmar was explained? If fast travel is possible through Shadesmar then they are two takes on the same idea, with Shadesmar being the much nicer place. With that being said if Spern are ideals given life than I would not want to meet, Death, Fear, Anger or a number of other Spern in Shadesmar.

 

I think that the Shadesmar will used like somoe kind of slipspace in a fabrial moved starship in the future, (Well that would be nice).

 

Sanderson said that some action in this serie would occur in the others planets of this star system, so must exist a way to transport the characters to there. Also The Herals are transported to the "hell" every time theu die and I think that the hell are real place in Odium homeplanet (Braise)