Prologue, Chapters 1 & 2 (from Tor)

[meddler]

No, he said the Stormlight books would be every 18 to 24 months. However, I personally think that Stormlight 3 will come out in fall 2016. After that I expect every 24 months. We need to get the production time longer (between when Brandon finishes the book and it gets published) so we aren't running around like crazy.

 

2015 or 2016 ? Because Fall 2016 would mean more than 24 months.

I don't mind either way since we get plenty of books from Sanderson each year.

[Who Sharded?]

2015 or 2016 ? Because Fall 2016 would mean more than 24 months.

I don't mind either way since we get plenty of books from Sanderson each year.

 

Yeah I really hope that was a typo

[Kurkistan he/him]

I doubt it was a typo. Recall that Brandon is usually writing while his books go to press, and WoR is getting an extremely compressed production process.

 

So SA3 will probably take just as long to write as other SA books, but without some of its writing time "hidden" by the fact that the previous book hasn't been released yet.

Edited January 10, 2014 by Kurkistan

[Natans he/him]

Fall 2016 ?!?!?! Don't be mean Mr. Peter.

 

And we would still like you guys even if your work drived you guys crazy, so make december 2015 =)

[Arcanist he/him]

In the same article, he has said that the next SA books will come at a frequency of every 18 months, or 24 at most. I am also quite sure that he's promised one big (SA sized) and one small (Alloy of Law sized) each year in the years hence.

 

EDIT: Misquoted the number of months.

 

 

Yes, however he has more "open" series now: SA, Reckoners, Mistborn Adventures, Ritmatist (and those long awaited pieces such as Elantris 2). So I personally think that we will get 1 or even 2 smaller books and one SA.

 

 

No, he said the Stormlight books would be every 18 to 24 months. However, I personally think that Stormlight 3 will come out in fall 2016. After that I expect every 24 months. We need to get the production time longer (between when Brandon finishes the book and it gets published) so we aren't running around like crazy.

 

Yes..this was expectable but very sad in the same time

[Dros]

 

 

1) spren died at the recreance (probably due to the severing of the bonds?)

 

Could be why Honorspren are more discerning than other spren?

 

 

 

WWI is an interesting case.  It became a world war because of the network of diplomatic treaties an alliances that were in place. 

 

What made it worse was many of those treaties were secret. Not a bad decision in terms of logistics, armament, manpower, etc. for two smaller nations to declare war on Germany...until you find out the cheeky buggers had secret treaties with the Ottomans, half the nations of Eastern Europe, etc. and those nations, unbeknownst to everyone else, had other treaties that dragged some poor schmucks in to it too, although they originally only wanted to grease a trade treaty!

 

I wonder if there is some similar workings in store on the Shattered Plains? Just who, or what, are the Parshendi waiting for?

Edited January 10, 2014 by Dros

[Kurkistan he/him]

No, because Nahodon said that particular line before the KR were even founded.

[Dros]

I wasn't really referring to the KR, although that's who he was referencing. I meant that Honorspren might be more discerning even way before the KR because when they bond to someone, it means death for the Honorspren if the bond is broken. Thus, the Honorspren are much more discerning in who they bond with, whether it was pre-KR surgebinders or the KR themselves. Although I imagine the bond is created before someone becomes a KR, not after.

Edited January 10, 2014 by Dros

[Kurkistan he/him]

Ah, I see your meaning now.

[hoser he/him]

I ... I meant that Honorspren might be more discerning even way before the KR because when they bond to someone, it means death for the Honorspren if the bond is broken. Thus, the Honorspren are much more discerning in who they bond with, whether it was pre-KR surgebinders or the KR themselves...

It becomes circular if we don't know for sure that spren have been killed, or if said hypothetical deaths resulted from the breaking of the bonds.  For living ideas, the loss of cognitive function that Syl seems to have experienced could be quite frightening. 

 

If someone has evidence that spren were killed beyond Jasnah saying they may have been killed, I would love to see it.

Edited January 10, 2014 by hoser

[Dros]

Truly, and mostly why a phrased it as a question. I imagine we'll see this explained at a later date.

[IceBaka]

Read it yesterday, but haven’t had time to comment until now.  I read through the rest of this thread first, just to make sure I’m not repeating too much of what others have stated.

 

The chapter headings from Navani’s journal, if you read them consecutively, make me think that the “death, destruction, loss, and pain” was an incident where the Alethi kill massive numbers of Parshendi.  The Parshendi want to sue for peace, but there’s miscommunication that ends in fighting or slaughter.

 

The description of the man that draws a sword on Jasnah in the palace and in Shadesmar sounds very similar to the beasts that attack Dalinar in one of his visions (I think it’s the ‘Starfall’ chapter).  One of the Knights Radiant that helps to defeat the beasts calls them Midnight Essence.  Since the Ten Essences are related to surgebinding, is it possible that Midnight (perhaps an absence of light) is an essence of Voidbinding?

 

Edit: Which makes me wonder who would be voidbinding in an attempt to Jasnah...

 

 

@Moogle – you seem to be seeing the assassination of Gavilar and the following war only at an individual level, which is true to some degree.  However, this is not a bar fight and the Parshendi responsible are not simple bullies.  The Parshendi who were present at the treaty signing were representatives of all their people.  School bullies do not have that type of larger representation (legal, moral, or otherwise).  Since those at the treaty signing were representing the Parshendi people as a whole, their actions (which I believe they took with full knowledge of the repercussions) are answerable to the Parshendi people as a whole.

 

Yes, Gavilar and the Parshendi representatives are individuals (as are the many who have died in the war), but unlike normal people they are the political focal points of their nations, their cultures, their people.  The assassination of Gavilar was more than just the death of one person, it was an attack by the Parshendi on the Alethi.  It’s not surprising that the assassination lead to war.

 

I’m not saying I favor war – I much prefer peace.  But, in an imperfect world, some wars will occur regardless of what good people do.  And so, I find your demonizing of Dalinar to be unwarranted.  Dalinar doesn’t seem out for vengeance, and there are multiple times when he feels sickened when killing the Parshendi.  He spends a third of the book trying to get other Alethi Highprinces to work with him.  They won’t even do that, except Sadeas.  What kind of a response do you expect from them if Dalinar were to officially and publicly attempt to get the Alethi to walk away from the war?  They may just attack Dalinar with their armies.

Edited January 11, 2014 by IceBaka

[Chrono she/her]

Not only does Dalinar feel sickened at the deaths of the Parshendi, he also gives ideas about how to stop or compress the length the war. For instance, he suggests that they begin communications and negotiations with the Parshendi to determine their motive for murdering Gavilar. (Chapter 58, "The Journey", pg. 825) He also seems to be the highprince most willing to try and end the war through negotiation. The other highprinces really just care about the gemhearts and the massive wealth they gain from them; the War of Vengeance has lost the "vengeance" part in their eyes. Dalinar not only seems to be the only highprince who actually cares about winning and ending the war, he's the only one that is looking for peaceful ways to end it. 

[Moogle]

The description of the man that draws a sword on Jasnah in the palace and in Shadesmar sounds very similar to the beasts that attack Dalinar in one of his visions (I think it’s the ‘Starfall’ chapter).  One of the Knights Radiant that helps to defeat the beasts calls them Midnight Essence.  Since the Ten Essences are related to surgebinding, is it possible that Midnight (perhaps an absence of light) is an essence of Voidbinding?

 

I like this idea. I've always been a fan that each of the 'Voidbringers' is going to represent one of the Ten Essences. We've got Thunderclasts for Stone already. I don't think that the Midnight Essence represents a lack of light, though - I'd peg them as Smoke for Order 2. The way their wounds deflate them reminds me of a balloon.

 

@Moogle – you seem to be seeing the assassination of Gavilar and the following war only at an individual level, which is true to some degree.  However, this is not a bar fight and the Parshendi responsible are not simple bullies.  The Parshendi who were present at the treaty signing were representatives of all their people.  School bullies do not have that type of larger representation (legal, moral, or otherwise).  Since those at the treaty signing were representing the Parshendi people as a whole, their actions (which I believe they took with full knowledge of the repercussions) are answerable to the Parshendi people as a whole.

 

This seems to me to be dancing into morality territory, where ultimately the arguments will boil down to personal feelings. I don't think either of us can convince the other that the other side is 'right' here, because it's based on how we feel, so I'll try to be brief. I'd really prefer to not have to write essays for each post again. (Edit: I make this edit after writing a small essay. I'm bad at this.)

 

I dislike the idea of holding a group of people to the actions of its leaders. I think it would be ridiculous for the Alethi to wage war on Kharbranth just because they have an issue with Taravangian, for example. The average citizen of Kharbranth being held responsible for Taravangian's killings seems unfair to me. Better to stick to assassination in this case, or demand that the Kharbranth people turn him over.

 

Of course, even if each Parshendi unanimously voted to assassinate Gavilar, I'd still argue against the Alethi going to war.

 

Yes, Gavilar and the Parshendi representatives are individuals (as are the many who have died in the war), but unlike normal people they are the political focal points of their nations, their cultures, their people.  The assassination of Gavilar was more than just the death of one person, it was an attack by the Parshendi on the Alethi.

 

The assassination of Gavilar was the killing of one person, no matter how important. It was not an attack by the Parshendi against the Alethi. I am lead to understand that if you want to attack a rival nation, you don't kill one person then run away with no plans to further advance the attack.

 

I understand the point you're trying to make. People are going to take it as an attack against them, because that's just how the human tribal instinct works. It's us vs. them. I'm not trying to say it was unexpected, or surprising, that the Alethi declared war - I'm just bemoaning that most people couldn't see how unimportant the death of one person was, compared to the cost of starting a war.

 

If the Alethi hadn't went to war, the total end result was one Alethi dead.

The Alethi did go to war. The total end result was thousands of Alethi dead. This outcome is hardly surprising.

 

It is my feeling that leaders should care about protecting their people from death and hardship. In this case, the Alethi instead put a higher priority on sating their lust for vengeance. It's natural, of course, I just don't like it. Hence my disappointment with Jasnah, who has previously put her emotions on the back-burner to approach things rationally.

 

I’m not saying I favor war – I much prefer peace.  But, in an imperfect world, some wars will occur regardless of what good people do.  And so, I find your demonizing of Dalinar to be unwarranted.  Dalinar doesn’t seem out for vengeance, and there are multiple times when he feels sickened when killing the Parshendi.  He spends a third of the book trying to get other Alethi Highprinces to work with him.  They won’t even do that, except Sadeas.  What kind of a response do you expect from them if Dalinar were to officially and publicly attempt to get the Alethi to walk away from the war?  They may just attack Dalinar with their armies.

 

The Alethi highprinces are not in it for the vengeance, not anymore. At this point, it's more of an idle pastime of competing for gemhearts while getting hundreds of people killed as a bonus. I don't expect Dalinar to publicly demand an end the war. I expect him to try to approach the problem in effective ways, and failing that, not try to kill every Parshendi.

 

What effective actions could he have taken? I'm not sure, since I don't know the extent of his power. Here's some ideas that I spent two minutes thinking up, that Dalinar never considered. They're not terribly good, but then I'm not terribly smart and didn't spend much time on them:

• Assassinate the other highprinces, and put his own puppets in place. Overthrow Elhokar if he won't end the war. (This is a bit extreme, and hard to pull off, and there's bound to be issues arising from this.)
• Find a way to get the Parshendi out of the Shattered Plains. They're hemmed in, which makes it hard, but perhaps he could have smuggled in Soulcasters and gemhearts for the Parshendi to use to tunnel their way to safety. The Parshendi could leave 10% of their people behind as a sacrifice, so the Alethi can 'win' the war against them in a suitably final manner. (This is difficult, particularly considering how crappy the Parshendi are at communication.)
• Find a way to disguise the Parshendi as parshmen, and smuggle them out. (Again, difficult, relies on the Parshendi not being bad at interpersonal skills.)

I want Dalinar to work to reduce Alethi and Parshendi casualties. You're right, he feels sickened when he kills Parshendi. Good for him. But he hasn't translated that disgust into stopping the killing.

 

Dalinar is trying to end the war. But he's trying to do so by winning it and killing the Parshendi, not through negotiations. I really don't care if he's not in it for vengeance - the unfortunate fact is that he plans on attacking the Parshendi directly. The other highprinces at least are not thinking of trying to take the fight to the Parshendi and kill them en masse. They just want their shiny gemhearts, and if they get to have some fun battles, then so much the better.

 

Yes, he gets props for considering negotiation and thinking, briefly, of stopping the war. But he's not doing that, not anymore, and he's not about to in WoR, going by the epigraphs. He hasn't translated his disgust at killing into his actions. He's acting the same as ever. More bloodthirsty, if anything - he hasn't been competing for gemhearts for a while, and now he's moving things up. That's why I am 'demonizing' him.

Edited January 11, 2014 by Moogle

[IceBaka]

 

This seems to me to be dancing into morality territory, where ultimately the arguments will boil down to personal feelings. I don't think either of us can convince the other that the other side is 'right' here...

 
I dislike the idea of holding a group of people to the actions of its leaders. I think it would be ridiculous for the Alethi to wage war on Kharbranth just because they have an issue with Taravangian, for example. The average citizen of Kharbranth being held responsible for Taravangian's killings seems unfair to me. Better to stick to assassination in this case, or demand that the Kharbranth people turn him over.

 

... 

The assassination of Gavilar was the killing of one person, no matter how important. It was not an attack by the Parshendi against the Alethi. I am lead to understand that if you want to attack a rival nation, you don't kill one person then run away with no plans to further advance the attack.

 

...

 

[Dalinar]'s acting the same as ever.  More bloodthirsty, if anything - he hasn't been competing for gemhearts for a while, and now he's moving things up.

 

I agree that we do not have the same opinion about this.  And since it's based on opinion, I don't think there has to be one 'right' answer.

 

But that's kind of how leadership works.  The responsibility of a leader is that his (or her) followers are benefited or harmed by the decisions and actions of the leader.  The only reason a group shouldn't be held accountable for its leader is if he gained leadership through methods that were coercive, illegal, or immoral (although I admit that last one is a little fuzzy).

 

And this was not the killing of one person, literally or figuratively.  How many guards did Szeth injure or kill before fighting Gavilar?  Are you saying those citizens who were just doing their jobs do not matter?  There were several people killed in the assassination attempt, not just Gavilar.  And no matter how you slice it, Gavilar represented more than himself.  Killing him is a symbolic attack on the entire kingdom, even if unintended.

 

Thinking on a larger political scale, the Alethi had to respond.  Yes, the response could have been more diplomatic, less violent.  However, the other nations of Roshar are familiar with the war-like tendencies of the Alethi.  If the Alethi king is assassinated and the Alethi people do not bring their armies to bear, then some of the other kingdoms are likely to sense weakness and either attack or send their own assassins to Alethkar.  So, I don't see any viable reason for the Alethi to say, "Oh, you killed our king.  Well, we'll just sit here and wait until you tell us why."

 

The fact that Dalinar hasn't competed for gemstones means he hasn't been participating in killing Parshendi.  And "more bloodthirsty" has connotations that do not line up with Dalinar's intentions in ending the war (which would end the bloodshed).

[Aiman]

In the prologue, Jasnah's shadow was towards the light ... this same phenomenon was in WoK "Axies" interlude as being characteristic of Aimians. Considering that Aimians are not categorized as human, maybe they have something to do with Cultivation ...

[Moogle]

But that's kind of how leadership works.  The responsibility of a leader is that his (or her) followers are benefited or harmed by the decisions and actions of the leader.  The only reason a group shouldn't be held accountable for its leader is if he gained leadership through methods that were coercive, illegal, or immoral (although I admit that last one is a little fuzzy).

 

Leadership is where you get to order people around. It works because you're in charge and they're willing to follow your orders, or are forced to follow them, or don't care enough to not follow them. Any additional meanings you place on it are yours and not mine. I think this is one where we can't convince the other of anything.

 

And this was not the killing of one person, literally or figuratively.  How many guards did Szeth injure or kill before fighting Gavilar?  Are you saying those citizens who were just doing their jobs do not matter?  There were several people killed in the assassination attempt, not just Gavilar.  And no matter how you slice it, Gavilar represented more than himself.  Killing him is a symbolic attack on the entire kingdom, even if unintended.

 

A good point on the guards bit. It was not just one person, it was more than one and less than a hundred. My point about thousands dead fighting against the Parshendi is not changed. If they didn't go to war, it'd only 100 people or less dead, while war is more a thousand.

 

Any 'symbolic attack' on the kingdom is just that - symbolic, not an actual attack. If the Alethi want to interpret it that way, they can, though it is quite obvious that the Parshendi did not intend to attack the Alethi as a whole. (Or would be if the Parshendi didn't suck at communication and the Alethi ever bothered with diplomacy. Still, I think the Alethi should have gotten the point when the Parshendi ran away.)

 

Thinking on a larger political scale, the Alethi had to respond.  Yes, the response could have been more diplomatic, less violent.  However, the other nations of Roshar are familiar with the war-like tendencies of the Alethi.  If the Alethi king is assassinated and the Alethi people do not bring their armies to bear, then some of the other kingdoms are likely to sense weakness and either attack or send their own assassins to Alethkar.  So, I don't see any viable reason for the Alethi to say, "Oh, you killed our king.  Well, we'll just sit here and wait until you tell us why."

 

Utilitarian arguments! Wonderful, and valid if the other kingdoms are indeed ready to attack and assassinate the Alethi at the first sign of weakness. The burden of proof is on you to show that Jah Keved and the other nations would start assassinating Alethi royalty or declaring war at the first sign of weakness, however. Kharbranth is 'weak' and has managed to avoid being conquered.

 

It's a false dichotomy to say it has to be war vs. sit on your hands and do nothing. As I've brought up before, hanging the Parshendi leaders is a decent enough response, and it would send the message you're looking for. The Alethi could demand them the Parshendi leaders surrender themselves diplomatically, not that they bothered.

 

The fact that Dalinar hasn't competed for gemstones means he hasn't been participating in killing Parshendi.  And "more bloodthirsty" has connotations that do not line up with Dalinar's intentions in ending the war (which would end the bloodshed).

 

I'm confused here - you're saying that, by committing genocide and killing all the Parshendi, Dalinar is seeking to 'end the bloodshed'? Obviously if the war is over because you kill the opposing side, the bloodshed is over, but that's just because a lot of it just happened. I'm asking for the bloodshed to stop because I don't want the Parshendi dead.

 

My understanding of Dalinar's intentions in winning the war is that he wants to unite Alethkar, and doesn't really care about the Parshendi beyond a need for vengeance (and he doesn't feel that very strongly). He's disgusted by the act of taking joy in killing, not the killing itself, and has no issue killing Parshendi. This is why he didn't go on gemheart runs until he hit on the idea of uniting the highprinces in truth, and it's why he has no problem killing them all if it means he can unite the highprinces along the way.

 

He walked closer, meeting Elhokar’s eyes again, then gripped the king’s seal in his hand. “As Highprince of War, I will enforce the Codes in all ten camps. Then I’ll coordinate the war eff ort directly, determining which armies get to go on which plateau assaults. All gemhearts will be won by the Throne, then distributed as spoils by you. We’ll change this from a competition to a real war, and I’ll use it to turn these ten armies of ours— and their leaders—into real soldiers.”

...

“We’re going to make something of Alethkar, nephew,” Dalinar said softly. “The highprinces gave their oaths to Gavilar, but now ignore those oaths. Well, it’s time to stop letting them. We’re going to win this war, and we’re going to turn Alethkar into a place that men will envy again. Not because of our military prowess, but because people here are safe and because justice reigns. We’re going to do it—or you and I are going to die in the attempt.”

Edited January 11, 2014 by Moogle

[Bloodfalcon he/him]

In the prologue, Jasnah's shadow was towards the light ... this same phenomenon was in WoK "Axies" interlude as being characteristic of Aimians. Considering that Aimians are not categorized as human, maybe they have something to do with Cultivation ...

You would know, I guess. What a relevant first post.

[marianmi]

Is it possible that Gavilar's stone contains Midnight Essence? Which can be used to create many things, including the creatures in the vision?

[Aether he/him]

I doubt that, if only because the Essences or whatever they are called (Midnight, Thunderclasts) seems to be made from focus elements. Thunderclasts = rock and Midnight Essence = smoke. It might contain whatever makes them form, though.

[The Rooster he/him]

In the prologue, Jasnah's shadow was towards the light ... this same phenomenon was in WoK "Axies" interlude as being characteristic of Aimians. Considering that Aimians are not categorized as human, maybe they have something to do with Cultivation ...

It seems like from this chapter that the shadow moving towards the storm light is a form of stormlight access. It would make sense that even different species can use the same method. Maybe the storm form Parshendi will be able to inhale it like Windrunners, it would explain the gems in their beards, a deep rooted practical practice that thru the mists of time becomes a meaningless custom. Like safe hands I'm sure.

[Moogle]

Is it possible that Gavilar's stone contains Midnight Essence? Which can be used to create many things, including the creatures in the vision?

 

I'm not so sure. Talk a look at this:

 

 

They bid him farewell, ignoring his broad hints that another cup of beer would prompt him to tell his greatest tale: that of the time when he'd seen the Nightwatcher herself and stolen a sphere that glowed black at night. That tale always discomforted Szeth, as it reminded him of the strange black sphere Gavilar had given him.

 

If it's related to the Nightwatcher (Cultivation), then I don't think it's likely to make Midnight Essence.

 

We do know that the black sphere is 'related to a Shard' or something, but I can't find the WoB in question.

[Swimmingly he/him]

Fall 2016 ?!?!?! Don't be mean Mr. Peter.

 

And we would still like you guys even if your work drived you guys crazy, so make december 2015 =)

It's funny how much we expect from Team Sanderson; look at Pat Rothfuss and George R. R. Martin - either one of them releasing at half the rate Brandon does would still be a miracle.

[Swimmingly he/him]

I'm not so sure. Talk a look at this:

 

 

If it's related to the Nightwatcher (Cultivation), then I don't think it's likely to make Midnight Essence.

 

We do know that the black sphere is 'related to a Shard' or something, but I can't find the WoB in question.

Sorry about the double post, but the topics are different enough I consider it justified.

 

I believe the black sphere may have served as some kind of lock against the Everstorm. Removing it from its former position, perhaps beneath the Shattered Plains, set off the string of events such as Dalinar's visions, the formation of Surgebinders, etc. It was kept in a place sacred to the Parshendi that big G entered during his explorations; the Parshendi only knew that entering the place where the sphere was kept would result in the return of their gods, not knowing about the sphere itself. As a last-ditch attempt, they killed G, hoping that would help.

Of course, perhaps moving it only weakened the lock.

I wonder what shattering it would do...?

 

This baseless speculation has been brought to you by Swimmingly

[Aether he/him]

It's funny how much we expect from Team Sanderson; look at Pat Rothfuss and George R. R. Martin - either one of them releasing at half the rate Brandon does would still be a miracle.

Well, in G. R. R. Martin's case, a 10% rate would still be miraculous.