Pet Peeves

[Orlion Blight he/him]

I just watched a video where a guy said "This looks like a shot for shotish remake!"

So, you know, it might be like Star Wars: The Force Awakens

[Oversleep]

The new Ghostbusters movie. 

 

Or rather, the arguments surrounding the new Ghostbusters movie. 

 

I'll make my opinion clear: It looks like a terrible movie, a shot-for-shot remake of the original, but with an all-female main cast and 2016 special effects. Neither of those two things are bad; to the contrary, they're things I would like very much to see more of in movies. But why remake Ghostbusters to do it? The original movie was fantastic. Why fix what isn't broken when you could make an entirely new movie with an all-female main cast and 2016 special effects? 

 

But to hear some people across the interwebs (not here, mostly on a site that begins with T and ends with "umblr"), this is the most important moment in the history of feminism, and if you oppose this movie, you are anti-woman in every sense of the term. And if you oppose it, you oppose it because you are anti-woman. There is no middle ground. You either support the new Ghostbusters because it stars four women, or you oppose it because you think women should remain barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen for all eternity. 

 

Gah. I left Tumblr weeks ago and they're still in my head.

I think that internet would be better if we had more people thinking like you. I think you deserve an upvote. I think I already upvoted this and that it deserves more upvotes.

[Sunbird she/her]

The new Ghostbusters movie. 

 

Or rather, the arguments surrounding the new Ghostbusters movie. 

 

I'll make my opinion clear: It looks like a terrible movie, a shot-for-shot remake of the original, but with an all-female main cast and 2016 special effects. Neither of those two things are bad; to the contrary, they're things I would like very much to see more of in movies. But why remake Ghostbusters to do it? The original movie was fantastic. Why fix what isn't broken when you could make an entirely new movie with an all-female main cast and 2016 special effects? 

 

But to hear some people across the interwebs (not here, mostly on a site that begins with T and ends with "umblr"), this is the most important moment in the history of feminism, and if you oppose this movie, you are anti-woman in every sense of the term. And if you oppose it, you oppose it because you are anti-woman. There is no middle ground. You either support the new Ghostbusters because it stars four women, or you oppose it because you think women should remain barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen for all eternity. 

 

Gah. I left Tumblr weeks ago and they're still in my head.

 

In a similar vein, people who trumpet their support for Hillary Clinton as the next US president and then when you ask them why the only "reason" they can think of is "She's a woman." That's JUST as sexist as not voting for her purely because she's a woman!

[The Invested Beard]

Or being called a sexist or racist when you aren't in favor of someone for valid reasons. Very easy to lump people you don't agree with into broad stereotypical hate groups.

 

My dislike of Hilary has nothing to do with her being a woman and everything to do with her character.

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her]

Or being called a sexist or racist when you aren't in favor of someone for valid reasons. Very easy to lump people you don't agree with into broad stereotypical hate groups.

My dislike of Hilary has nothing to do with her being a woman and everything to do with her character.

It's also a surefire way to end a discussion before it's even started. Again, I see this often on the site that rhymes with "bumbler:" Someone brings up a point you don't like? Call them sexist or racist, or, failing that, tell them to check their privilege. Bam. You've just ended an unwanted discussion AND discredited your opponent, all with minimal effort.

[Nashan’Elin he/him]

It's also a surefire way to end a discussion before it's even started. Again, I see this often on the site that rhymes with "bumbler:" Someone brings up a point you don't like? Call them sexist or racist, or, failing that, tell them to check their privilege. Bam. You've just ended an unwanted discussion AND discredited your opponent, all with minimal effort.

And you've not only done that, you've gotten yourself a free ticket to the list of people that annoy me!

[Mestiv he/him]

What does that even mean "check your privilage"? Last time I checked all my privilages were fine. Why would that make me wrong by default? O.o

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her]

What does that even mean "check your privilage"? Last time I checked all my privilages were fine. Why would that make me wrong by default? O.o

 

The way Tumblr uses it, it means, "because of an accident of birth, you belong to one or more classes that have traditionally been afforded more advantages (male, cis, white, etc.) and so we are choosing to dismiss your opinion as regressive, self-serving, and ill-informed, unless it aligns perfectly with the one we ourselves express." The actual definition is a bit more nuanced, but as you may have guessed, the popular Tumblrian use has left a bad taste in my mouth. 

Edited May 24, 2016 by TwiLyghtSansSparkles

[ThirdGen]

What does that even mean "check your privilage"? Last time I checked all my privilages were fine. Why would that make me wrong by default? O.o

 

As it's typically used, the phrase means "What you just said you have no right to say," or "You're only saying that because of the framework of life experience granted to you by being in this or that dominant power group."  It's not quite a thought-terminating cliche, but it's generally intended to mean the discussion is over.  Sometimes this glosses over actual substance that doesn't correspond with the speaker's paradigm.  If they want to focus on a feminist or LGBT lens (which they usually do), "check your privilege" shuts down discussion along, say, socialist lines.  What happens next mostly depends on what faction is dominant in that forum or comment section.  It usually gets less substantive and more name-calling very quickly.

[Young Bard he/him]

In the same vein, I once read an article. It was quite conservative, and I didn't agree with the point being made, but it was well written, and the arguments made were sensible and logical, and backed up with evidence.

 

So, I scrolled down to the comments section, planning to write a few counter points, because I genuinely felt that there was a potential for discussion. I scroll down, and -

 

YE MERRY GODS, WHAT ELDRITCH ABOMINATION LANDED IN THE COMMENTS SECTION! It seemed to be a combination of a digital food fight, World War III, and the Apocalypse all rolled into one. I'd genuinely thought that a polite, well written article would be more likely to result in polite, well written responses. Well, I was proved wrong that day.

[jaimeleecee she/her]

YE MERRY GODS, WHAT ELDRITCH ABOMINATION LANDED IN THE COMMENTS SECTION! It seemed to be a combination of a digital food fight, World War III, and the Apocalypse all rolled into one. I'd genuinely thought that a polite, well written article would be more likely to result in polite, well written responses. Well, I was proved wrong that day.

 

^This

 

I miss being able to have an informed debate with someone who opposes my views,  I think that is a healthy way to broaden your understanding.  You may have the facts on your side but once you learn facts from the other side there is so much more to consider.  Arguing for the sake of arguing or because you just don't like what someone has to say (or the someone) is the worst form of ignorance.  Do your research and then please, "come at me bro" lets debate the rust out of this with all of our evidence and supporting opinions, without insulting each other! 

 

phew...

 

Edit: this is the first time I attempted cursing in a post and I am so pleased with the outcome   

Edited May 24, 2016 by jaimeleecee

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her]

^This

 

I miss being able to have an informed debate with someone who opposes my views,  I think that is a healthy way to broaden your understanding.  You may have the facts on your side but once you learn facts from the other side there is so much more to consider.  Arguing for the sake of arguing or because you just don't like what someone has to say (or the someone) is the worst form of ignorance.  Do your research and then please, "come at me bro" lets debate the rust out of this with all of our evidence and supporting opinions, without insulting each other! 

 

phew...

 

Edit: this is the first time I attempted cursing in a post and I am so pleased with the outcome   

 

So many online debates seem geared toward shouting the other side down, overwhelming the dissenting voice through sheer numbers, or just plain winning, when the subject matter would make arguing to learn much more productive. They're talking about things that need to be discussed—racism, sexism, LGBT+ issues, etc.—yet there's precious little discussion. So much more could be gained by engaging ideological opponents rather than challenging them. 

[jaimeleecee she/her]

So many online debates seem geared toward shouting the other side down, overwhelming the dissenting voice through sheer numbers, or just plain winning, when the subject matter would make arguing to learn much more productive. They're talking about things that need to be discussed—racism, sexism, LGBT+ issues, etc.—yet there's precious little discussion. So much more could be gained by engaging ideological opponents rather than challenging them. 

 

I agree 100% discussion is the key to understanding, but no one wants to give the other group a chance for fear that they might be proven wrong.  The point is not to be right or wrong but to discover what would be the most beneficial to all, and unfortunately sometimes that means what you initially believed is not the answer, but that doesn't necessarily make you wrong.  People need to learn to put their egos aside.. wishful thinking 

[Delightful]

On the flip side, what bothers me is when you're open minded and willing to discuss, and the other person is all "well we have different opinions and we won't agree so I'm not discussing this with you".

[jaimeleecee she/her]

On the flip side, what bothers me is when you're open minded and willing to discuss, and the other person is all "well we have different opinions and we won't agree so I'm not discussing this with you".

 

Oh god, yes. I think that can be just as bad as being mean and ignorant.

[Orlion Blight he/him]

All this talk reminded me of the following:

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her]

All this talk reminded me of the following:

You could replace the two groups in that strip with almost anything and it would still make sense. Methinks modern society doesn't know how to debate.

[Orlion Blight he/him]

Another thing to keep in mind is a lot of people aren't looking for a debate, they are looking for empathy. A call for more "reasonable" discourse dismisses any emotion they may have as being insignificant and is often a ploy to wrest control of the conversation.

In other words, there's a time and a place for certain discussions. If you stumble onto a part of the online community that acts as a support group for victims of racism, your "reasonable" argument that racism is not a problem is not going to be received well.

[jaimeleecee she/her]

Another thing to keep in mind is a lot of people aren't looking for a debate, they are looking for empathy. A call for more "reasonable" discourse dismisses any emotion they may have as being insignificant and is often a ploy to wrest control of the conversation.

In other words, there's a time and a place for certain discussions. If you stumble onto a part of the online community that acts as a support group for victims of racism, your "reasonable" argument that racism is not a problem is not going to be received well.

 

Very good point.. as a Therapist, I would hope people would be more respectful of support groups and online support communities, as that is not the time or place for a debate.. but I imagine that is certainly not always the case.  Everyone is entitled to their own feelings, as all feelings are a matter of perception.  It's no ones place to invalidate someones feelings even if they don't agree. 

[Orlion Blight he/him]

Very good point.. as a Therapist, I would hope people would be more respectful of support groups and online support communities, as that is not the time or place for a debate.. but I imagine that is certainly not always the case. Everyone is entitled to their own feelings, as all feelings are a matter of perception. It's no ones place to invalidate someones feelings even if they don't agree.

Absolutely.

It also occurred to me that such times and places are more appropriate times to seek enlightenment through some interrogative method. People are trying to process their grief, anger and other emotions, that's hard enough without answering somebody's morbid curiosity.

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her]

Another thing to keep in mind is a lot of people aren't looking for a debate, they are looking for empathy. A call for more "reasonable" discourse dismisses any emotion they may have as being insignificant and is often a ploy to wrest control of the conversation.

In other words, there's a time and a place for certain discussions. If you stumble onto a part of the online community that acts as a support group for victims of racism, your "reasonable" argument that racism is not a problem is not going to be received well.

I agree that your example is rude beyond compare, but I was more referring to instances where it's brought up in some supposedly clever context, like BuzzFeed's frequent contributions designed for no other purpose than to remind people that white privilege is a thing. That, in my opinion, is where reasonable discourse is needed, and it's often where reasonable discourse goes to die.

[Orlion Blight he/him]

I agree that your example is rude beyond compare, but I was more referring to instances where it's brought up in some supposedly clever context, like BuzzFeed's frequent contributions designed for no other purpose than to remind people that white privilege is a thing. That, in my opinion, is where reasonable discourse is needed, and it's often where reasonable discourse goes to die.

That is BuzzFeed, though. It's kinda their thing. Much like how Fox has its own distinctive content and agenda, these groups or blogs are purposefully trying to convince anyone that reads them of their cause, or strengthening the converted.

So though a comments section may be provided, it's also not conducive to useful debate as such. You can learn the arguments and incantations of that side ("microagressions" or "everyone gets a trophy!"). As far as testing the mettle of your position? Well...

In my experience, it's hard to find an appropriate place and time to debate. You end up with folks that are too passionate or folks afraid of any sort of conflict. Ultimately, it's best just to know when to walk away early on.

[Mistrunner]

Yes.

I want to learn more about people who have different backgrounds/beliefs, but the internet is so scary that I'm afraid to ask anywhere but the Shard.

I hate that people are being lumped together and hated on due to things they have no control over. It doesn't matter if you're black, white, one-sixteenth Gallifreyan, bisexual, asexual, Captain Jack Harkness or whatever. You have a right to an opinion. Just make sure it's an informed one and I'll respect it. We're all humans on a pale blue dot hurtling through space.

I just wish people were nicer. You know?

I also wish I was one-sixteenth Gallifreyan, but that's a little harder to achieve.

[Master Elodin]

Yes.

I want to learn more about people who have different backgrounds/beliefs, but the internet is so scary that I'm afraid to ask anywhere but the Shard.

I hate that people are being lumped together and hated on due to things they have no control over. It doesn't matter if you're black, white, one-sixteenth Gallifreyan, bisexual, asexual, Captain Jack Harkness or whatever. You have a right to an opinion. Just make sure it's an informed one and I'll respect it. We're all humans on a pale blue dot hurtling through space.

I just wish people were nicer. You know?

I also wish I was one-sixteenth Gallifreyan, but that's a little harder to achieve.

All you need to do to become 1/16th Gallifreyan is to glue a paper heart to your shirt. Bonus points if you wear a fez or eat the bones of children. Edited May 24, 2016 by Master Elodin

[Mistrunner]

All you need to do to become 1/16th Gallifreyan is to glue a paper heart to your shirt. Bonus points if you wear a fez or eat the bones of children.

Seems a little extreme.