Where are the Honorblades?

[IceBaka]

If you have a Shardblade, you will most likely want to make this fact known to the world. The amount of prestige, power, and wealth even a single Blade can grant is incredible. Shallan's situation is, I think, unique in this regard. Generally, there is no need to hide your Blade, but there are many reasons to reveal it.

 

I have a hard time agreeing with this.  I think ownership of a shardblade does not automatically grant power or wealth, at least not in any immediate way.  Perhaps it will lead to accumulation of power and wealth over years, or more likely, decades.  The easiest way for a shardblade to generate wealth would be by selling it, which would mean you no longer retain ownership.  So, you'd lose any prestige or power directly tied to the blade.

 

For some individuals, if it were publicly known that they hold a shardblade, they would become targets.  Think about Dalinar's vision of the recreance where the common soldiers fought over the abandoned blades and plate.  One guy picks up a sword, then has to fight for his life to keep it because so many others want it.  I think it would be advantageous to announce gaining possession of a shardblade primarily in situations where one has the means to properly defend him/herself.  Those means could include things like being of high rank (with money and power already attached), belonging to a powerful organization (like an army, where a blade would definitely be welcome), or having proper skill in wielding the blade.  While I agree that the threat of bringing the shardblade to bear may be sufficient to prevent some attacks, what about a shardbearer who has no training in swordplay?  He may not present much of a threat to anyone with the proper skills.

 

In short, I think whether or not an individual reveals possession of a shardblade will be highly dependent on his/her circumstances.  Because of the strictures of Vorin culture, female shardbearers (at least in Dalinar's time) would probably want to keep it a secret.  Of course, personality would be important to any decision.  Some people are naturally flamboyant and ostentatious in displaying symbols of their power.  Whereas others are more secretive in hiding their agendas and possessions until the most opportune moment.  Remember how devastating the unknown shardbearer was at the beginning of tWoK?  If not for Kaladin's freakish awesomeness, Amaram and his army would have been completely annihilated.

 

Which leads me to believe that there are probably quite a few shardblades currently held by people who want to keep it secret.

Edited November 8, 2013 by IceBaka

[Gloom]

 While I agree that the threat of bringing the shardblade to bear may be sufficient to prevent some attacks, what about a shardbearer who has no training in swordplay?  He may not present much of a threat to anyone with the proper skills.

 

Honestly, unless you are a Shardbearer, anyone who holds a Shardblade is dangerous regardless of their training. It's at least four feet of death on a stick. I don't need to be a swordsman to hit you with it, I just need to be a swordsman to keep it from another Shardbearer or a mob.

[Honor]

I just don't agree with a large number of people having secret blades. I don't understand what all these people with secret blades are doing with them.  Sure it is a big surprise if you all of the sudden whip out a blade when nobody expects it.  But what good does it do to have a hidden blade your whole life?  In the places with the largest number of known blades, Alethkar and Jah Keved, most men would take advantage of having a blade to become a "Lighteyes" which although not confirmed seems widely accepted.  I think the only reason Amaram got away with stealing the plate and blade from Kaladin's squad was that Kaladin himself didn't immediately claim them so it was ambiguous to the rest of the army as to what happened/who actually killed the shard bearer.

 

I just find it improbable that many people in the Vorin culture would be patiently waiting for the right moment to pull out that secret shard blade.  And I find it equally unlikely that large numbers of blades are secretly held in non-Vorin nations.  There is a reason Alethkar is seen as a power center on Roshar.

 

So where are all the blades? Thinking about it I think it is possible that they were destroyed/decayed.  I don't have any evidence to back it really.  It seems that plate and blades are made in different ways.  Or they at least behave differently in the current period, but what if they are more similar than we think?  Blades are stored presumably in the spiritual realm when not in use by their owner but plate doesn't disappear.  However, in the "Falling Stars" or whatever chapter it is with Dalinar fighting with the Radiants, he keeps getting shocked by their helmets seeming to disappear and re-appear.  We know that in the current period when a helmet's visor is closed the view the wearer is transparent but doesn't appear so from the outside.  So either when used by Radiant's they can make their helmets completely invisible or has been speculated they may be able to dismiss it somewhere and summon it back at will.  And if they can do that to their helmets why not the rest of the armor?

 

We also know that currently plate needs infused gemstones to power it and it is possible that this wasn't always the case.  Well what happens when a suit of plate sits for extended periods of time without any infused gems?  Is it possible it could eventually decay away?  I am saying possibly yes.  And because of that I think it may be possible for regular shardblades to decay away if they sit without an owner in the physical realm instead of being stored in the spiritual realm.

 

This could help explain the relatively few plates and blades we are aware of.  Despite it being rare in the current period for them to just get lost or disappear - mainly because there are so few left for the most part everyone knows who has them. It would be possible initially when there were many more for them to occasionally get lost or hidden and forgotten.  And perhaps they eventually crumbled away.

 

The honor blades are a different story I think.  I think they are either where they were left which is now a forgotten location or they were taken by a group - perhaps somebody like Shin stone shamans and kept hidden.

[marianmi]

Parshmen, not parshendi.

 

It would be really funny, but Eshonai's reading contradicts this.

 

In it Eshonai comments that she is one of their last shardbearers.

 

I think the mystery of the missing shardblades and shard plate will come out as we learn more about the various KR orders. I do like the theory that the blades and plate are created or grown by each surgebinder as they reach a certain level.

[Arook]

My bet is the honor blades were secured by the original holders after the breaking of the oath pact.

[Gloom]

The Oath Pact is still in force. Taln was enough to keep it from falling apart.

 

Every time I see the title of this thread, I want to tell everyone that Dr. Jones took the remaining Shards to a nondescript government warehouse in the Midwest and had them crated up in nondescript boxes without labels for the last 4000 years.

[Malim]

Just a random thought that popped into my head:

What if the honorblades were given to the KR at the end of the last desolation? Doesn't tell us where they are now, but I can see a conversation like this:

Jezrien: Hey guys we won! You can keep our swords as a symbol of our great victory!!

KR: That's awesome! You guys rock!

Random KR: Hey, what about Taln's honorblade? Does my order get that one too?

Jezrien: Umm... No.

[Windrunner]

The Oath Pact is still in force. Taln was enough to keep it from falling apart.

 

Is it? The face in the highstorm disagrees. Ishar's theory may have been incorrect.

 

THE OATHPACT WAS SHATTERED.

...

THE OATHPACT IS BROKEN, CHILD OF HONOR

[Bloodfalcon]

 

Is it? The face in the highstorm disagrees. Ishar's theory may have been incorrect.

 

You shouldn't talk to strangers, and there is nothing stranger than a storm-face. I say we ignore the storm-face entirely and pretend it never happened.

[The Count]

I am sure there is a quote of Brandon that at least strongly implies that the Oathpacct is still partially in force.

 

If the face in the clouds is Jezrien then he is not a wholly reliable source on this as he maybe quite crazy...

[Gloom]

 

Wetlander: Is there any of the Oathpact still functioning because e of Taln continued participation.

 

A: Yes, indeed

 

So yes....

 

 

Wetlander: Was Odium able to splinter Honor because the Heralds abandoned the Oathpact?

 

A: Good question. Um, their abandonment of the Oathpact is related…but mostly tangentially.  If I was pinned down on that, I would say no.

 

And no. The Oathpact is still functional, but to what extent is remains functional is anyones guess.

 

Source

Edited November 14, 2013 by Gloom

[Shardlet]

The first quote shows that the Oathpact is still partially in force.  The second quote only says the nine Heralds' abandonment of the Oathpact is very loosely related to the splintering of Honor.  It doesn't give any indication of the status of the Oathpact.

Edited November 17, 2013 by Shardlet

[marianmi]

If I were to guess, I would say the Oathpact is still in effect - with of without Tanavast.

And the Herald's abandonment was not what got Honor shattered, but tangentially it was - so they basically weakened Honor, so then after the day of recereance it was possible to splinter him.

[Dros]

It's my understanding that Honor was splintered before the Recreance. 

[marianmi]

It's my understanding that Honor was splintered before the Recreance. 

 

It's a point of contention. How could he have shown Dalinar the Recreance vision if he was already dead?

[Gloom]

We really don't know when Tanavast was killed. We have evidence to support that Tanavast lived at least up until the Recreance, but it isn't enough evidence to prove it. So it's possible he died prior to the Recreance, but it's also possible that he was alive when Galivar was assassinated. The only thing we know for certain is that Tanavast is dead. Perhaps it was when an Honorblade was used as a tool for murder that Odium was finally able to kill Tanavast. I know all of this is rather unlikely, but really we just don't know for certain, and that is all I'm trying to say here.

[name_here]

I doubt Blades and Plate stolen by assassins remain out of play permanently. Even assuming that their family or organization can secure it instead of them dying on a random street, eventually politics change and no one particularly cares that the Shards got stolen five generations ago. If someone has a Blade and for whatever reason can't openly use it, in general they'd want to give it to someone who could. Exceptions exist, but I seriously doubt ~90% of the Blades are concealed.

 

Plus, Plate can't be dismissed at present, so it can't be trivially hidden, and there's no specific indication that Plate is much more common than Blades. Yes, some people only have Plate, but some people only have Blades.