Where are the Honorblades?

[lookingglass she/her]

I've just started a WoK re-read and was wondering where are the honorblades? If the heralds left them then did someone else just pick them up later? Did the knights radiant use them? Or did the almighty strike from above and trn them into stone or something?

[Bloodfalcon he/him]

There are theories on this. Some people think Szeth has one, which would probably be assuming the Shin control them, or some group Szeth is associated with. Not sure, but pretty confident the Knights Radiant did not use them as their own - there were just too many of them. This is one of those questions that you could spend hours reading about if you type Honorblade into the search bar, but by the end you would be exhausted. 

[Gloom he/him]

I've just started a WoK re-read and was wondering where are the honorblades? If the heralds left them then did someone else just pick them up later? Did the knights radiant use them? Or did the almighty strike from above and trn them into stone or something?

 

I think this question would be a definite Read And Find Out.

[lookingglass she/her]

There are theories on this. Some people think Szeth has one, which would probably be assuming the Shin control them, or some group Szeth is associated with. Not sure, but pretty confident the Knights Radiant did not use them as their own - there were just too many of them. This is one of those questions that you could spend hours reading about if you type Honorblade into the search bar, but by the end you would be exhausted. 

 

I did not think of that. Do you reckon that's why Szeth doesn't need a spren for his windrunner abilities? The blade provides the link necessary for him to access to his powers?

[lookingglass she/her]

I think this question would be a definite Read And Find Out.

 

Knowing Brandon's way of thinking he has probably put them somewhere obvious in the books but we aren't just smart enough to figure it out yet

[hoser he/him]

Well, they were just left in the ground near an active battlefield.  I suppose they could be magically cloaked somehow, but there is no indication of that in the Prelude. 

 

Rampant totally unfounded speculation starts here.

In 4500 years, I will go with the thought that they were found rather than mounded over with crem. 

 

But there seems to be no record or history of them.  What force would have the discipline to find them and not use them?  I'll go with the Radiants.  Even if they didn't find them initially, if someone else found them and started abusing them, the Radiants would have stopped them.  So the Radiants put them somewhere. 

 

Going further out on this limb: The Radiants have stored them in Urithiru. 

[lookingglass she/her]

Going further out on this limb: The Radiants have stored them in Urithiru. 

 

That just seems too easy. Considering the fact that we know pretty much nothing about Urithiru we can't assume everything leads there. It would seem kind of a waste to have 9 honorblades lying around for nothing. They are possibly being used somewhere. Though maybe Cultivation hid them? She lost her lover so she's being petty and keeping the blades away?

 

Speaking of Cultivation... We know that some of the Radiants are connected to her (lift's interlude, well at least the Spren) and as each order of Radiants were connected a herald, does that mean some of the honorblades are actually hers?

 

I think I'm rambling again...

[Bloodfalcon he/him]

I did not think of that. Do you reckon that's why Szeth doesn't need a spren for his windrunner abilities? The blade provides the link necessary for him to access to his powers?

Yeah, that's what I think, but I don't know if it is a popular opinion. I like it though. But I've always been a fan of the "power weapon" stories that attach someone's abilities to their weapons that they keep with them. In fact it is one of the main reasons I get turned off by A Song of Ice and Fire; the Valerion steel blades are kind of built up, and then the people who have them don't seem to be very much better off for it. 

But that's enough about me...

[Gloom he/him]

That just seems too easy. Considering the fact that we know pretty much nothing about Urithiru we can't assume everything leads there. It would seem kind of a waste to have 9 honorblades lying around for nothing. They are possibly being used somewhere. Though maybe Cultivation hid them? She lost her lover so she's being petty and keeping the blades away?

 

Speaking of Cultivation... does that mean some of the honorblades are actually hers?

 

I don't know that an Honorblade can be "lost". I would assume that each Blade is bound to the Herald in some way greater than that of a Shardblade as we know them. I believe that the Heralds can either recover their Blades whenever they desire, or the Blades have been taken beyond their reach by a greater power. I find the second possibility unlikely.

 

I'm pretty sure that the Heralds predated the arrival of humans on Roshar. What the spren did was a surprise to Honor. The Radiants were an accident. The Heralds fought in the Tranquiline Halls prior to their forced exile. For some of the Heralds to belong to Cultivation, you'd have to buy my theory regarding the origins of Roshars humans and the Tranquiline Halls, and that would just make it possible, not likely.

 

theory

Edited October 29, 2013 by Gloom

[Bloodfalcon he/him]

I don't know that an Honorblade can be "lost". I would assume that each Blade is bound to the Herald in some way greater than that of a Shardblade as we know them. I believe that the Heralds can either recover their Blades whenever they desire, or the Blades have been taken beyond their reach by a greater power. I find the second possibility unlikely.

 

I'm pretty sure that the Heralds predated the arrival of humans on Roshar. What the spren did was a surprise to Honor. The Radiants were an accident. The Heralds fought in the Tranquiline Halls prior to their forced exile. For some of the Heralds to belong to Cultivation, you'd have to buy my theory regarding the origins of Roshars humans and the Tranquiline Halls, and that would just make it possible, not likely.

 

theory

I tend to also believe there is a greater connection with the Honorblades, but I think that it was just as equally severed as any other when the Heralds abandoned them. It was enough to destroy their Oathpact connection, so I think it did the trick in disconnecting them from their blades as well. 

[lookingglass she/her]

Yeah, that's what I think, but I don't know if it is a popular opinion. I like it though. But I've always been a fan of the "power weapon" stories that attach someone's abilities to their weapons that they keep with them. In fact it is one of the main reasons I get turned off by A Song of Ice and Fire; the Valerion steel blades are kind of built up, and then the people who have them don't seem to be very much better off for it. 

But that's enough about me...

 

So is Brandon, Think Nightblood! There are theories saying that Szeth is connected to the Unmade and is the opposite of the KR and Heralds but I don't think that he's actually evil enough for it. He always talks about his honor and is pained by what he does so I think I'm going to stick to the blade link theory. Plus it would be too obvious and predictable for Szeth to be "bad". He's one of the main characters and in line with his other works he might be the one who ends up saving the world. Maybe its my wishful thinking though

[lookingglass she/her]

I don't know that an Honorblade can be "lost". I would assume that each Blade is bound to the Herald in some way greater than that of a Shardblade as we know them. I believe that the Heralds can either recover their Blades whenever they desire, or the Blades have been taken beyond their reach by a greater power. I find the second possibility unlikely.

 

I'm pretty sure that the Heralds predated the arrival of humans on Roshar. What the spren did was a surprise to Honor. The Radiants were an accident. The Heralds fought in the Tranquiline Halls prior to their forced exile. For some of the Heralds to belong to Cultivation, you'd have to buy my theory regarding the origins of Roshars humans and the Tranquiline Halls, and that would just make it possible, not likely.

 

theory

 

I'm not entirely sure about the tranquiline halls theory and the other world. We know that it took Odium awhile to settle but not about honor and cultivation. Plus I always thought that the halls were not in the physical realm. I thought it must be spiritual as its when people die the go to help the heralds. Or maybe Shardsmar? Lift's spren says its weird for her to be able to touch him unless she's part of the cognitive realm and maybe its there?

 

I'm possibly confusing alot of stuff now. I never really got the difference between the spiritual and cognitive realms

[Bloodfalcon he/him]

So is Brandon, Think Nightblood! There are theories saying that Szeth is connected to the Unmade and is the opposite of the KR and Heralds but I don't think that he's actually evil enough for it. He always talks about his honor and is pained by what he does so I think I'm going to stick to the blade link theory. Plus it would be too obvious and predictable for Szeth to be "bad". He's one of the main characters and in line with his other works he might be the one who ends up saving the world. Maybe its my wishful thinking though

Yeah I loved Nightblood! I actually could see Szeth being an Unmade pawn. The equivalent of Kaladin where the relative Unmade would be a mirror-Jezrien. Szeth is constantly hoping someone will be better than him and defeat him and I haven't said it much on here, but I think Kaladin is going to kill him near the end of WoR. Later we'll get a Szeth flashback book when we need the information it holds. Those are my hopes at least.

[lookingglass she/her]

Yeah I loved Nightblood! I actually could see Szeth being an Unmade pawn. The equivalent of Kaladin where the relative Unmade would be a mirror-Jezrien. Szeth is constantly hoping someone will be better than him and defeat him and I haven't said it much on here, but I think Kaladin is going to kill him near the end of WoR. Later we'll get a Szeth flashback book when we need the information it holds. Those are my hopes at least.

 

I hope Kaladin doesn't. Again that would be to easy. I think Szeth would kill himself. Its one of the rules he has to obey isn't it? So killing himself means he'll break away from the unmade. Like how Vin sacrificed herself after Elend was killed by Marsh.

[Bloodfalcon he/him]

If Szeth was going to disobey, I think he'd have done it before he started slaughtering families.

[Gloom he/him]

I'm not entirely sure about the tranquiline halls theory and the other world. We know that it took Odium awhile to settle but not about honor and cultivation. Plus I always thought that the halls were not in the physical realm. I thought it must be spiritual as its when people die the go to help the heralds. Or maybe Shardsmar? Lift's spren says its weird for her to be able to touch him unless she's part of the cognitive realm and maybe its there?

 

I'm possibly confusing alot of stuff now. I never really got the difference between the spiritual and cognitive realms

 

This quote doesn't really confirm my theory, but it confirms it's validity as a theory.

 

Q: So there are two other planets in the Roshar system, are they the Tranquiline Halls and Damnation that you mentioned in TWoK?

 

A: (after consideration) There has been in the past knowledge of other planets in the system and that has indeed influenced the mythology of the world.

[Shardlet he/him]

We should not forget that Honor was still alive and kicking when the 9 Heralds bailed.  I don't think it unlikely that he and Cultivation did something to preserve and protect the Honorblades from being used inappropriately.  These were weapons of great power which were created and given to specific people for a specific purpose.  It seems unlikely that they would have allowed something like that to be left in the wind. 

[lookingglass she/her]

We should not forget that Honor was still alive and kicking when the 9 Heralds bailed.  I don't think it unlikely that he and Cultivation did something to preserve and protect the Honorblades from being used inappropriately.  These were weapons of great power which were created and given to specific people for a specific purpose.  It seems unlikely that they would have allowed something like that to be left in the wind. 

 

I do agree. Though I'm not sure Where honor was killed. I always assumed that he was killed when the shattered plains were created but reading the book again the plans were destroyed before the heralds broke the oathpack. At least I assume they were fighting at the plains. But if honor died after what would happen to the shards he hid. Will they magically appear like the body of Ati and Leras or they are still hidden?

[Argent he/him]

At least I assume they were fighting at the plains. 

 

Bad assumption. There is nothing concrete that suggests the final battle of the last Desolation took place there. In fact, I had a post in another thread going through the environment and pointing out why it didn't take place there.

[Shardlet he/him]

I haven't seen any strong indications to tie the last desolation battle to the shattered plains.  As to them appearing once Honor died, it would depend on many things.  How were they protected?  Were they taken up, so to speak, or were they hidden in place somewhere?  How much of a role did Cultivation play in protecting them?  Could she be maintaining their protection by herself?  Etc., etc., etc. 

[lookingglass she/her]

Bad assumption. There is nothing concrete that suggests the final battle of the last Desolation took place there. In fact, I had a post in another thread going through the environment and pointing out why it didn't take place there.

 

I just read the Prelude again and this is what Kalak says:

 

"The plain was a place of misshapen rock and stone, natural pillars rising around him, bodies littering the ground. Few plants lived here. The stone ridges and mounds bore numerous scars. Some where shattered, blasted out sections where Surgebingers had fought. Less frequently, he passed cracked, oddly shaped hollows where thunderclasts had ripped themselves free of stone to join the fray."

 

It just sounds like the plain. I know I'm on shaky ground here but it always seemed to me that the plains were the ultimate battlefield.

[marianmi]

From Eshonai's reading, we know the Shattered Plains were a great city.

Thanks to the above quote, we now know for sure that the fight in the Prelude was not on the Shattered Plains.

[lookingglass she/her]

From Eshonai's reading, we know the Shattered Plains were a great city.

Thanks to the above quote, we now know for sure that the fight in the Prelude was not on the Shattered Plains.

 

But when was the city destroyed? and what did she say in the reading? I read it months ago.

[Dros]

It's not beyond comprehension that people would build a city where final victory over Odium occurred (or so they thought). Surely someone built monuments to their victory somewhere...I mean, winning a single Desolation is a pretty big deal, winning the final desolation? Big time. I would think folks might have seen the Honorblades in the ground, decided they should keep them protected until the Heralds returned (not knowing they had been abandoned), built a magnificent city, waited and waited and waited until the city became a ghost of itself, was abandoned, talked about in memories, then sang about as legends, then myths and then forgotten completely. It's possible, actually quite likely, that such a city would come to ruin over a long time frame (4500 years). Not sure it was Urithiru, but it's quite possible a city would be built on the Shattered Plains due to the events that took place there and then be lost to the ravages of time.

[hoser he/him]

But when was the city destroyed? and what did she say in the reading? I read it months ago.

According to Dalinar the kingdom of Natanatan fell some centuries before the events of the way of Kings (Starfalls vision).  If the destroyed city were the capital, that could sure help the kingdom fall.  At the least, a few centuries before is the latest the city could have fallen. 

 

It's not beyond comprehension that people would build a city where final victory over Odium occurred (or so they thought). Surely someone built monuments to their victory somewhere...I mean, winning a single Desolation is a pretty big deal, winning the final desolation? Big time. I would think folks might have seen the Honorblades in the ground, decided they should keep them protected until the Heralds returned (not knowing they had been abandoned), built a magnificent city, waited and waited and waited until the city became a ghost of itself, was abandoned, talked about in memories, then sang about as legends, then myths and then forgotten completely. It's possible, actually quite likely, that such a city would come to ruin over a long time frame (4500 years). Not sure it was Urithiru, but it's quite possible a city would be built on the Shattered Plains due to the events that took place there and then be lost to the ravages of time.

The Kingdom of Natanatan was one of the original silver kingdoms and seemingly existed prior to the last desolation (Starfalls vision).  The Desolation was won in many places.  The swords were left at the rendez-vous of the heralds, which had no apparent significance to anyone else.  The events described above seem possible, but to me something like the Recreance vision seems more likely.  Shardblades are too valuable to go unused.