Scott Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 The shattered plains have huge chasms, there's no mention of those in the prelude. I find it unlikely that an entire city was built up, and then hit so hard it sunk into the ground so that the tops of the buildings are level with the ground around it as in the plains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windrunner Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 Well, the city presumably didn't sink into the stone. I'd imagine that crem slowly covered up the ruins of the buildings over the centuries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dros Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 (edited) According to Eshonai there are ruins of a city present on the shattered plains. BS said there was "great magic unleashed there." God knows what that could do to manmade structures in the vicinity. I'm not saying it must be the same place as the Prelude. I'm just saying it's not inconceivable. Edit: Hoser, I agree that seems a plausible scenario you describe... Edited October 29, 2013 by Dros Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 (edited) Well, the city presumably didn't sink into the stone. I'd imagine that crem slowly covered up the ruins of the buildings over the centuries. My thinking was as follows: The two types of cities in roshar are either surface-built, or chasm-built. 1) Chasm-protected cities There are references to cities built entirely inside networks of chasms for protection. For example, Karbranth is built in a large cleft in the stone such that none of the buildings extend above the protecting rock faces. This seems to be the main type of city in highstorm-wracked areas. If a city was built in a series of chasms, and then covered by crem, then you'd get a flat surface on top cut up by much smaller chasms that follow (presumably) the road systems or gaps between buildings such as the city under the shattered plains. However, the only mention of depressions or clefts in the rock in the prelude are where thunderclasts tore themselves free, leading me to believe the only way to construct a city on the prelude battlefield would be a surface city... 2) Surface cities These are more open, and are typically seen in areas with weaker highstorms (Azir (Lift interlude), Emul, Purelake, etc). The city would be built from the ground up, and would have buildings of differing levels. The plateaus in the shattered plains are roughly the same height, at least on the Alethi side. If the heights were too different then bridges would not be able to span the gaps. This means that if the shattered plains is the same location as the prelude, and in the meantime a city was built and encrusted with crem, something would have had to push the city down far enough into the ground that the tops of the buildings were the same height. Also, it seems unlikely that a surface city would be built on the far east side of Roshar where highstorms are strongest. In my mind neither option seems likely, so option three (shattered plains is not where the prelude takes place) gets the win. Edited October 30, 2013 by Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aether Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 The Honourblades are described to stand apart even from Shardblades, so I do not find it strange that they would not have been heard from for 4500 years, even if they were found at some point. They could have been hidden away as holy relics, only to be looked upon by the highest of priests, or maybe stored away and hidden from mortal eyes, fearing that they would be too perilous to use and too dangerous to risk getting into enemies eyes, only to in time be forgotten and lost. What I do find likely, however, is that they will resurface at some point during the Stormligh Archive decalogy. Also, I like the idea of them having been found by the Shin and made a part of their Stone Shamanism, though the evidence for it is rather flimsy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Count Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 (edited) I always felt that not just anyone could pick up an honorblade. I know Brandon said that someone else could use them, but this does not mean that anyone else can... I mean they are the weapons of God's chosen! In a literary sense the parallels between the honorblades and Excalibur (sword in the stone) are interesting. Maybe you have to the right king of person to use an Honorblade, just like you have to be the right kind of person to attract an Honorspren. Anyway, I think the honorblades, assuming they are still in the same place they were left, would now be buried under centuries of crem... Edited October 30, 2013 by MadRand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aether Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 (edited) Anyway, I think the honorblades, assuming they are still in the same place they were left, would now be buried under centuries of crem... Well, we still do not know where on Roshar they are situated, and we do not know the nature of the Highstorms at the time of Aharietiam. For all we know, the battlefield described in the prelude might be far enough away from the Origin for crem not to matter too much. Also, one of the Epigraphs have been suggested as referring to the resting place of the Honourblades: “Taking the Dawnshard, known to bind any creature voidish or mortal, he crawled up the steps crafted for Heralds, ten strides tall apiece, toward the grand temple above.” - Epigraph from Chapter 36 of tWoK Of course, it wouldn't be too far-fetched to assume that they are indeed buried away somewhere, but seen in the context of dramatic writing, it seems like a rather boring solution. I suspect Great Master Brandon has something else planned for them. Edited October 30, 2013 by Aether Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeiryWriter Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 Excalibur (sword in the stone) Sorry but this is a huge pet peeve of mine, Excalibur and the Sword in the Stone are not the same sword. The Sword in the Stone was pulled from the stone by King Arthur which proved his right to the throne. Excalibur was given to Arthur by the Lady of the Lake many years later after the Sword in the Stone was broken. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aether Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 Really? Cool! *queue * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookingglass Posted October 30, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 Hmm. This is all really interesting. I always assumed that the shattered plains were the last desolation occurred OR where Honor died. I also think that honor's shardpool would be somewhere buried beneath the plains as it was a sight of "great magic" as BS said. As for the blades my best guess is Nightwatcher and the Shin still. I guess I'm quite hard to sway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windrunner Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 Also, one of the Epigraphs have been suggested as referring to the resting place of the Honourblades: I strongly believe that the Dawnshards and the Honorblades are two distinct things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 (edited) Though not necessarily unrelated. The Dawnshards could be what "powers" the Honorblades, what makes them different from ordinary Shardblades and what binds (as in "known to bind any creature, ...") to the Oathpact. Edited October 30, 2013 by Argent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windrunner Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 Well they "could" be. But in reality, they could be just about anything, to be honest. We have no data beyond the mythological function of one of them. The Dawnshards could imprison the Unmade, the Dawnshards could be super Stormlight batteries, the Dawnshards could be what destroyed the city beneath the Shattered Plains. I think that when people don't understand how something works, they tend to just throw the Dawnshards out as a solution, since they literally could be nearly anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 That's how theories have worked around here in the past month, Windy... But now, on a side note (that oddly takes us away from the previous side note), I have to wonder whether the Honorblades look like the ones you can see in the backgrounds of the part divider pages (of the hardcover?). They look pretty distinctive and their hilts strongly resemble the glyphs symbolizing the Radiants' orders. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aether Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 (edited) I strongly believe that the Dawnshards and the Honorblades are two distinct things. I do too. What I suggested was that the Honourblades could have a connection to "the Grand Temple above", not directly the Dawnshards that are name-dropped in the beginning of the epigraph. It's still a long shot though. That's how theories have worked around here in the past month, Windy... But now, on a side note (that oddly takes us away from the previous side note), I have to wonder whether the Honorblades look like the ones you can see in the backgrounds of the part divider pages (of the hardcover?). They look pretty distinctive and their hilts strongly resemble the glyphs symbolizing the Radiants' orders. IIRC, WoB have asked us not to pay too much head to the blades themselves from the cover and within the book, but the glyphs the hilts form. I think they are more artistic and/or symbolic than anything else, as the Honourblades themselves are described as "a masterly work of art, flowing in design. inscribed with glyphs and patterns.". Nowhere are they described as having "giant, unwieldy glyph hilts". Other than that, they do not only resemble, they ARE the glyphs representing the orders, just slightly more elaborate. The one on the cover, page 35 and 963 is the glyph for the Windrunners; the one on page 181 and 723 is the one for the Skybreakers; and the one on page 453 is for the Dustbringers. Edited October 31, 2013 by Aether Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Count Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 Sorry but this is a huge pet peeve of mine, Excalibur and the Sword in the Stone are not the same sword. The Sword in the Stone was pulled from the stone by King Arthur which proved his right to the throne. Excalibur was given to Arthur by the Lady of the Lake many years later after the Sword in the Stone was broken. Well, you learn something new everyday! I bow to your superior knowledge and apologise for my inaccuracy... Still the point is, not just anyone could pull the sword out of the stone... Similarly, maybe not just anyone can pull up the Honorblades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookingglass Posted October 31, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 I seriously seem to miss a lot of stuff. Can someone please put up the photo of the blades. I have the UK version and it doesn't seem to have them. Or I missed them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windrunner Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 Similarly, maybe not just anyone can pull up the Honorblades. Well, I don't know if they'll work the same way they do for the Heralds, but others can use the Honorblades. DUSTIN Can a Herald's blade/equipment be um....adopted? I only ask because Dalinar seems to be lacking one and that Herald at the end did kick the bucket in his capital and he's gonna need more than armor when Szeth shows up. BRANDON SANDERSON (GOODREADS) Someone who is not himself or herself a Herald can indeed use one of the Honorblades. FOOTNOTE Just because he fell doesn't mean he's dead. That's how theories have worked around here in the past month, Windy... That's not what I've seen. There have been plenty of well founded theories over the past month, just off of the top of my head I can think of two or three that that I espouse. And even if there hadn't been, should we not try to build theories with rational arguments and evidence, rather than "Nothing we've seen directly contradicts this." I do too. What I suggested was that the Honourblades could have a connection to "the Grand Temple above", not directly the Dawnshards that are name-dropped in the beginning of the epigraph. It's still a long shot though. My apologies, I missunderstood. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodfalcon Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 Sorry but this is a huge pet peeve of mine, Excalibur and the Sword in the Stone are not the same sword. The Sword in the Stone was pulled from the stone by King Arthur which proved his right to the throne. Excalibur was given to Arthur by the Lady of the Lake many years later after the Sword in the Stone was broken. I'm awarding this post the very first "Bloodfalcon's Post of the Week Award" for two reasons: 1. I learned something very cool, and will probably go find this story and read it now. 2. Your apparent passion for this correction is incredibly endearing in its nerdiness. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Count Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 Well, I don't know if they'll work the same way they do for the Heralds, but others can use the Honorblades. DUSTIN Can a Herald's blade/equipment be um....adopted? I only ask because Dalinar seems to be lacking one and that Herald at the end did kick the bucket in his capital and he's gonna need more than armor when Szeth shows up. BRANDON SANDERSON (GOODREADS) Someone who is not himself or herself a Herald can indeed use one of the Honorblades. FOOTNOTE Just because he fell doesn't mean he's dead I remember thre quote (and I am probably reading waaaay to much into it here) but 'someone who not a Herald' does not necessarily mean 'All non Heralds'. Ther may still be some selection criteria. So the quote does not have to mean that just anyone can pick up an Honorblade. I agree though that your interpretation is the simplest. I guess it just seems to me that you would take more care to leave actual weapons of god somewhere safe if any peasant could come along and use it. But then the same argument could be tied to the Recreance couldn't it. Argh, I am just talking myself in circles now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodfalcon Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 I remember thre quote (and I am probably reading waaaay to much into it here) but 'someone who not a Herald' does not necessarily mean 'All non Heralds'. Ther may still be some selection criteria. So the quote does not have to mean that just anyone can pick up an Honorblade. I agree though that your interpretation is the simplest. I guess it just seems to me that you would take more care to leave actual weapons of god somewhere safe if any peasant could come along and use it. But then the same argument could be tied to the Recreance couldn't it. Argh, I am just talking myself in circles now... On that day they abandoned more responsibility than that of a powerful sword, I think. If the Heralds turn out to still be decent people, I think we will also find that they were responsible with the swords, but it's not looking like that will be the case to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 @MadRand, how does the Recreance fit this? The Heralds were already gone by then, and all the Radiants did was to drop their Shards, maybe sever their Nahel bonds, and walk away. That's not what I've seen. There have been plenty of well founded theories over the past month, just off of the top of my head I can think of two or three that that I espouse. And even if there hadn't been, should we not try to build theories with rational arguments and evidence, rather than "Nothing we've seen directly contradicts this."No, I agree with you. I've been complaining against theories lacking in the evidence department for weeks now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodfalcon Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 @MadRand, how does the Recreance fit this? The Heralds were already gone by then, and all the Radiants did was to drop their Shards, maybe sever their Nahel bonds, and walk away. No, I agree with you. I've been complaining against theories lacking in the evidence department for weeks now. I think he is comparing the Recreance because the KR also discarded their Blades (and responsibilities) and in doing so, left extremely powerful weapons, given to them by [god/s] in the hands of random men. He was saying he doesn't think the Heralds would be so irresponsible, but clearly it is possible considering the KR also do it a few centuries later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 Fair enough, it makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Count Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 I think he is comparing the Recreance because the KR also discarded their Blades (and responsibilities) and in doing so, left extremely powerful weapons, given to them by [god/s] in the hands of random men. He was saying he doesn't think the Heralds would be so irresponsible, but clearly it is possible considering the KR also do it a few centuries later. What he said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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