theory Nightblodium

[Oudeis he/him]

Rather than continue to derail this thread, I'm posting my hypothesis here.

 

Thesis statement: Mr. Sanderson created Nightblood for the express purpose of having him eventually take up the Shard of Odium.

 

My thoughts on the matter: Per WoB, we know Nightblood was made for Roshar, and Warbreaker was made as a way to introduce him, as an origin story. This implies he's really, really important. I would daresay it's appropriate to assume he'll prove pivotal.

 

Nightblood eats Investiture. He can eat Breath, Stormlight, and apparently the Mists of Scadrial. His hunger is not to be underestimated.

 

Much is made of Nightblood, and his lack of capacity to make moral judgements. His mind was expanded from "I am a sword" to sentience with a thousand Breaths, and he was Commanded to decide what is and is not evil. The problem arose because, expanded mind or not, he simply didn't have the equipment to decide for himself what is evil. This entire concept, while interesting, doesn't actually impact the book very much. Nightblood would be a terrible and powerful weapon even without this issue, so it doesn't do much to impact what happened to Shasharra or what might happen with Yesteel.

 

I believe this will prove pivotal. An issue with Odium, per the Letter, is its Intent. He mentions that Ati was once nice, but the Intent of Ruin perverted him into something horribly dangerous, and suggests that the Intent of Odium is, if anything, worse. It seems that simply letting someone else take up the Shard is a short-term solution, at best. Combining it with another Intent might work better, but that's already been done.

 

Per the notion of Chekhov's gun, don't put in something you don't intend to use. So, to what use could Nightblood's inability to understand "evil" come in? I propose that one day, he will take up Odium. I think his endless hunger for Investiture will eventually lead him to somehow be connected to something vital to Odium (I have a few ideas how this might happen) and that he will consume it all, until he is Odium and Rayse isn't. And then, I think he will have exactly as much capacity to understand Hatred as he currently does Evil.

 

I also have one last point to make, though I'm basing less on this. We know that some of the people involved in Nightblood's creation knew of Shardblades and were deliberately trying to mimic one. This is very unclear, but it's just about possible that even in-universe, it's actually someone's intention to craft a weapon capable of taking a Shard by force from its holder. It does harken to Preservation's long-game. Let me re-state that this point is even more speculative than the rest of my thoughts, and I'm including it out of a sense of completeness. If this is proven wrong, specifically, I still stil my hypothesis can be thought of as possible.

 

EDIT: We now have much-more-recent WoB that Vasher worldhopped as a young man. While it's still possible this minor aspect of my hypothesis has some basis, it seems presumptive that it does not. As stated initially, this should not impact the larger hypothesis.

 

(Having trouble getting to the actual source on the AMA, but this link references the relevant quote)

 

Before I get into the arguments people have made against my theory, I'm going to clarify something that seems to keep getting confused. I'm not saying that Nightblood will want to destroy Odium because he will see Odium as Evil. I bring up Nightblood's Command not for the content of the Command itself, but to point out that Nightblood is inherently incapable of understanding abstract concepts of morality. The specific Command itself, or for that matter Odium's specific Intent, are irrelevant. Please do not reply saying something along the lines of, "Nightblood won't kill Odium because Odium isn't evil." Nightblood killed a wall once. I'm pretty sure the wall wasn't evil, either.

 

On the other thread there have been a few disagreements with my hypothesis, which I fully admit is so speculative it might as well be head!canon (to be clear, I'm not convinced myself that this will happen. It's just something I wonder about).

 

The main one seems to be an assumption that the expansion of consciousness one gets from being a Shard will be enough for Nightblood to understand hatred. I disagree. First, Nightblood's mind was already expanded. He started, presumably, with the cognitive aspect of "I am a sword" and a thousand Breaths and a Command expanded his consciousness to that of a reasonably intelligent adult. The Command was even specifically crafted, by two people who presumably do understand evil, towards evil-centric things. And, being a sword, he simply doesn't have the capacity to understand the concept.

 

We have seen two people fully Ascend, and from their perspective seen the past of another man who at least partially Ascended, and we have a glimpse into what this expanded consciousness means. It is not omniscience. It's a knowledge of the history of the power, it's an ability to think about many things at once, to experience incalculable grief and guilt while having enough processing power left over to dissect subtle implications. It did not help Rashek know where to place a planet to make it habitable... even though he himself moved the planet from its proper orbit in the first place. It would not have been enough to let Sazed adjust the biology of mankind... even though he saw exactly how Rashek had changed them in the first place.

 

Vin and Elend trick Ruin, and later Elend checkmates him, specifically because he's lost too much of his humanity and no longer understands love, or the strength Vin and Elend can find in their bond, even after death. Being a Shard, if anything, made it harder for Ati to comprehend human emotions.

 

For all of these reasons, I question the assumption that a second expansion of Nightblood's consciousness will do what the first one couldn't. Of course, if anyone can provide a suggestion from text or WoB to the contrary, I will accept the flaw in my hypothesis.

 

There was briefly a suggestion that Nightblood is incapable of taking up a Shard because he lacks hands, but I believe this is not a widely-held belief.

 

It has been said it won't happen because Nightblood is too interesting, and making him a Shard will make him less interesting, to which I have two rebuttals. Many main charcters die or fade into the background; it's rare for someone to be SUCH a good character they can survive the spotlight forever. I do not agree that anything about Nightblood as a character means he cannot ever fade into the background. Also, I do not think Sazed became any less interesting of a character for having Ascended. Compare, for example, Ham, who impacts Alloy of Law far less, and is far less interesting in Era 2.

 

I'm going to close with an additional thought: We, as a group, know practically nothing about Shards, or Adonalsium, or Divine Intents, or really anything related to the Spiritual Realm. Therefore, my certainty stems not so much from anything mechanical or realmatic, but more from an idea of narrative causality. The author has set up certain elements in the books, and I see them pointing to a certain conclusion. To be frank, I will be suspicious of anyone who claims that we know enough about Shards to say my hypothesis doesn't hold water; we know so little about Shards that right now, almost anything is possible. I would be much more likely to revise my certainty if someone points out a narrative reason why this is extremely unlikely. Or, of course, if further books or W's-o-B reveal things about Shards that are not now apparent.

Edited October 22, 2015 by Oudeis

[Titan Arum]

I really like this idea, because I too believe that Nightblood is not insignificant in any way.

 

This has lead me to think about what an Ascended Nightblodium would be like. Sure, he'd probably go wherever Vin and Sazed go when they Ascend. However, we do know that sometimes Shard's take a form in the Physical Realm. Would Nightblodium come back as his sword? If so, he'd LITERALLY be a true Shardblade. The next question is, who would wield him and why? Would he allow whoever wields him to destroy evil as they define it? 

[natc]

Might as well begin to fear just how much a shardblade with that much investiture would cut and/or vaporize when swung at something

I vote for Nightblood as new Adonalsium.

[Zathoth]

Would he be able to be swung though? His body should disappear just like it did for everyone else.

[Oudeis he/him]

I was discussing this earlier today with Titan. We have four examples of a time the body of a person "went away" while they were Ascended. However, we also know that both Ruin and Preservation were able to physically manifest. Atium, lerasium, the mist spirit. For that matter, the Stormfather. It seems that, whether or not their own body is available, many Shards are capable of manifestation. No reason he couldn't make a bunch of metal show up in the form of a sword. It might not be his original "body" but, tbh, we don't know that it can't be. Even if other Shards couldn't manifest that way, we know different Shards have different capabilities.

Edited September 2, 2015 by Oudeis

[Witborn]

Also, the bodies of Ati and Leras both reappear when they die so they don't just disappear. Something happens to them where they are preserved somehow.

[Zathoth]

I was discussing this earlier today with Titan. We have four examples of a time the body of a person "went away" while they were Ascended. However, we also know that both Ruin and Preservation were able to physically manifest. Atium, lerasium, the mist spirit. For that matter, the Stormfather. It seems that, whether or not their own body is available, many Shards are capable of manifestation. No reason he couldn't make a bunch of metal show up in the form of a sword. It might not be his original "body" but, tbh, we don't know that it can't be. Even if other Shards couldn't manifest that way, we know different Shards have different capabilities.

If I recall correctly they were both incorporeal though.

 

Well, ridiculous theory incoming. Nightblood wont take up Odium, but eat the shard, and by that he will turn even more dangerous because now he can make anyone who picks him up really hate the evil. Of course that will create an even bigger conflict when Szeth has the strongest weapon in the Cosmere...

[Moogle]

Just a discussion point:

 

Nightblood may not understand evil, but the Annotations state that the Breaths in him did try to interpret the Command. There's this whole "Nightblood does not tempt the hearts of those who are pure" going on - does Nightblood himself know whether or not he's making someone tempted/sick?

 

---

 

I'm sympathetic to the idea that an expanded Shardmind won't make Nightblood suddenly understand evil, but I'm not so sure it applies. At least part of Splinters'... inhumanity, as it were, may come from the fact that they're limited by Intent. Seons seemingly can't understand the idea of not serving - though I'm not strictly sure this parallels Nightblood.

 

However, we see an example of Shards directly overcoming their Intent: Ruin and Preservation, working together, were able to achieve something neither could that was anathema to both their Intents.

 

In a similar way, a mixture of Nightblood and the Intent of another Shard might give rise to a being capable of doing/understanding things it could not previously do. Yes, we have not seen minds expanded previously encompass new concepts... but the interaction of two new Investitures is a thing we might expect to give rise to such a result.

 

I am not entirely swayed by the Sazed argument: there's a difference between literally being unable to grok a concept like evil and not knowing the physics of optimal planet placement. Sazed could comprehend the idea that there was a perfect place to put the planet, it wasn't fundamentally unknowable to him. Given time to research, it might be possible in principle that Sazed could have determined such a place without his copperminds. Given time to research, I do not believe Nightblood would ever come to understand evil. There's probably not a Spiritual ideal for perfect planet placement, but there may be Cognitive/Spiritual things relating to evil. At least, what is seen culturally as evil.

 

In a similar way, to provide a counterpoint to the Ruin-couldn't-understand-love argument: I imagine Ruin very well could have understood love, but was very much predisposed to not think of it. It was a blind spot. Nightblood, however, has no such blind spot. Destroying evil is at the core of what he is, and when he becomes a Shard, I could totally see him going "hrm, now I wonder what the evil thing really is".

 

I find that my intuitions say that a Seon which was merged with some of Odium's power would find itself very judgemental in whoever it served, and perhaps it would willingly choose to not serve people it is Passed to. As a result, I find it possible Nightblood may come to understand evil like a human would. My intuitions are not themselves a strong argument, naturally, but I have little enough else to go on.

 

In principle, Nightblodium could create a human, which would itself understand evil; could it self-modify itself to allow itself to do so, with Shardic sDNA tinkering? Could it make a copy of Vasher's mind and do something equivalent to hCopper spiking it into itself? I am inclined to say that Realmatics would allow this.

 

(My knowledge of Elantris is spotty. Feel free to lambast me on the Seon points. I know Sarene's Seon was a little rebellious, but it still seemed like it followed her orders without question, just doing additional things to help her.)

 

---

 

This isn't to disagree very strongly with your theory - I think it's very clever and I like it a great deal. I agree with you that assuming Nightblood would instantly understand evil if he took up a Shard, as some do, is way way way premature.

[Dunkum he/him]

Does Nightblood actually need to understand hatred in order to be influenced by it?  wouldn't it be possible that the power of a Shard, as well as the influence of Odium's intent would cause it to attempt to vigorously carry out it's original "slay evil" command?  basically, it seems like the interaction between the command, and Odium's intent would result in Nightblood hating evil, whether or not it truely understood either hatred or evil.

 

as to whether or not it could understand concepts like evil or hatred: I'm inclined to say it would, though I would be a lot more confident in that if we knew whether using extra breaths (2000 instead of 1000 say) would have increased nightblood's capacity for understanding.  the difference between 1000 breaths and an entire shard seems like it should be enormous: orders of magnitude.  the difference between a stick of dynamite and the sun.  if 1000 breaths can provide basic sentience, it seems like something on the order of a shard could drastically expand on that.  moreover, to the point about others who have taken up a shard: it is possible that the relationship is not linear.  if it is logarithmic, then beyond a certain point, the enhancement to conciousness would tend to almost plateau.  for someone like Sazed, there would be a change, but not necessarily a huge one, but for nightblood, it could be much more dramatic.

 

at any rate, I like the theory.   I don't know that I think it will happen, or even how plausible it actually is, but I like it.

[Confused]

Oudeis, I agree with the theory that Nightblood will consume Odium, especially since I first proposed it in May 2014 (actually April 2014, but it began as part of a larger post). Your ideas are more considered and thought out than my throwaway thread was.

 

1. When Nightblood consumes investiture, what does such investiture “become”? Does the consumed investiture retain its original mandate (intent) or does it become subject to Nightblood’s “Destroy Evil” command? RShara in the cited thread suggests Nightblood will become Odium. You suggest a similar but not identical outcome. If Odium’s mandate does override Nightblood’s command, does this change your analysis?

 

2. Hate is an emotion. Evil is an abstract concept. Understanding hate requires only “sentience,” the capacity to feel. Understanding evil requires sapience – the capacity to make judgments. It’s the difference between the mental capacities of Radiant spren versus windspren, creationspren, etc. I don’t think Nightblood would have any difficulty understanding “hatred” as opposed to “evil.”

 

3. “Mind” to power represents only the capacity to wield the power IMO. More “mind” means more power. I agree with you that more “mind” does not necessarily mean a keener moral understanding.

 

4. There is a difference between ability and experience. As you and others here have pointed out, Sazed and Vin both had the ability to move planets, but not the experience; hence, they messed it up. That neither proves nor disproves whether an entity’s capacity to make moral judgments improves with greater power. It suggests as a minimum that the entity must have certain experiences – as we all must - before it can begin to make moral judgments.

 

5. Moogle, kudos for your Heinlein reference!

[Oudeis he/him]

1. That's pretty much what I had in mind. Technically, my head!canon is this: (I have been resisting typing it up, because I don't want someone pointing out that my specific scenario is unlikely and saying that therefore my entire theory is unlikely; this is only one possible way things could go down, and any of a nearly infinite alternatives could all fill the same requirement).

 

Odium appoints a Champion. This Champion is somehow tricked/forced into drawing Nightblood. By some mechanism, the Champion cannot (or doesn't realize the danger in time) simply discard/sheath Nightblood. Nightblood consumes all of his spiritweb, connected as it is to Odium's, and thereby also draws in Odium's. Rayse is left without the power of a Shard and materializes physically (there has been some oddly-phrased WoB suggesting he would not long survive the process of de-Sharding). Nightblood Ascends. I realize there are questions we have about the whole scenario; as I've said a time or two now, we honestly don't know anything about Investiture, or the Spiritual Realm, or what happens to Investiture after Nightblood "eats" it.

 

An alternate theory of mine is that someone somehow takes Nightblood physically into the Spiritual Realm and stabs it into the "nexus" of Odium there. Maybe a Herald takes Nightblood, travels to Damnation, and uses it there, where Odium is Invested.

 

If either of these specifically are disproven, or even if they're just found unlikely, I contend that this does not invalidate the entire theory. They're just a few specific examples of a thing which might happen a dozen different ways.

 

EDIT: Might not have addressed your actual point. I might have misunderstood. Were you asking if I thought Nightblood would become his own, new Shard, with a new Intent adjusted by his Command? No. I do not think that. I think he'll be just like Vin, that he will Ascend to become the mind controlling the power of Odium, and that he will be influenced by the Intent as she was.

 

2. Eh, I'm not sure I agree. I'm going to try to find the line in Warbreaker where Vasher tells him... it's in reference to a sunset, or to being stuck in a closet. Vasher tells him something like, you can't like things, you're a sword. And Nightblood says, yes I can. I decided I can. I want to find the actual quote... I remember getting the impression that Nightblood is playing at having a human range of emotions in an attempt at accomplishing his Command, which he knows he's unequipped to do.

Edited September 3, 2015 by Oudeis

[Dunkum he/him]

I realize there are questions we have about the whole scenario; as I've said a time or two now, we honestly don't know anything about Investiture, or the Spiritual Realm, or what happens to Investiture after Nightblood "eats" it.

This actually reminds me of another possibility that had occurred to me: I was more or less of the impression that the investiture that Nightblood absorbs is more or less being used up to sustain nightblood's existence.  basically that it is so out of touch with normality, that it requires this energy source in order to remain 'alive'.  not entirely unlike a returned feeding on breaths.  based on that, I'm curious what would happen if it absorbed an entire shard.  what is the possibility that it could more or less actually remove odium from existence entirely?  doesn't seem likely, but possible?

[Grey Knight]

This seems theoretically possible. Not sure what would happen in "real" life.

[Oudeis he/him]

We have WoB, and in-text in Hero of Ages, that the Power of Creation cannot be destroyed. It can be used and dispersed, but never destroyed. None of us know for sure what actually happens to the "power" that Nightblood eats'. Maybe the Breath gets broken down into its component parts and returned to Endowment. Maybe something about the Breaths are something generated by the Power of Creation but not the actual Power itself, and therefore can be destroyed. Unfortunately, we have no way to know for sure.

The AMA is still ongoing if you're a redditor, but this question strikes me as RAFO-bait. Still, have at! On the off chance he does answer, I'd love to know what he has to say.

[Dunkum he/him]

Not a Redditor, so have to pass on that one.  based on what you are saying, though, I would guess that if the power is consumed to sustain Nightblood, Odium's power would be dispersed (like Ruin's was, more or less) and presumably eventually condense back into the shard.  or the infusion of power would destroy nightblood's physical form, removing the need to constantly ingest more investiture.  or maybe something in between.

[Oudeis he/him]

We do have one other example of a time someone absorbed all the power of a Shard, using the power as she absorbed it to perform fantastic feats, the 'waste' emitting from her skin as she used it only to be drawn back in and re-absorbed... and, just like I'm proposing, in that case, she Ascended.

 

Vin was attuned via the Well and the mists as a child (Sazed suspects) in order to fully take in the power. Nightblood was created with a mechanism for taking in Investiture. I'm seeing a lot of parallels. I might update my OP, because I now think this scene in Hero of Ages is one more link in the chain, one more piece in the jigsaw puzzle.

[Yata he/him]

Maybe The Investiture consumed from Nightblood, simply lose or overwrite its own Intent.

Es. Nightblood eats Breath and that Breath become "Investiture without intent" or "Destroy-Evil-Intent-Investiture".

If this is right, NIghtblood consuming a Shard (if the magnitude of the power isn't too much form him to process) could "destroy a shard", in the meaning of "odium is no more" but something similar at "apathetic Shard", a Shard without Intent (much like Adonalsium pre-Shattering Investiture).

[Oudeis he/him]

While I personally find this unlikely, it's an excellent example of, "We understand so little about Shards, literally anything is possible"!

[Yata he/him]

While I personally find this unlikely, it's an excellent example of, "We understand so little about Shards, literally anything is possible"!

You have absolutely right.

My previous post was a "possible outcome" for the Nightblood powers, but at least unlikely.

 

The only thinks sure about our Awakened Sword when is drawned are: It absorbs wielder Investiture (at least the gassous ones) and "seems" to leaks out the same Investiture in a corrupted form:

 

When we will see a Stormlight-powered-Nightblood in action, a lot of my doubts will dispelled.

Edited September 4, 2015 by Yata

[Confused]

Oudeis, you partly answered my questions, by saying Nightblood’s mind will simply wield greater power. I’m less interested in answers than discussion. I’m trying to follow the logical implications of your theory.

 

Here’s the question in its broadest form: What happens to the investiture Nightblood consumes? The derivative question is, What happens if (when) Nightblood consumes a Shard? We need to consider these questions regardless of which plotline leads us there. (I of all people would never question another person’s theories, if those theories are “factually correct” and internally consistent.)

 

I think we all agree that Nightblood holds Breaths, Endowment’s investiture. Nightblood’s exercise of its command is an expression of Endowment’s power and subject to her mandate (intent). I believe that mandate is Generosity, Moogle believes it’s Sacrifice. Brandon describes Endowment’s investiture as having a “sticky” quality.

 

Question 1: What Happens to the Investiture Nightblood Consumes?

 

When investiture flows in, where does it go? Does Endowment’s “stickiness” keep the investiture in there, simply adding to Nightblood’s power? IOW, does investiture (of whatever kind) lose its own character and become part of Nightblood – part of Endowment’s power? That would be interesting…the Cosmere decimated by Odium’s rampage and then reinvested by Endowment…Brandon’s version of the Pulsating Universe theory.

 

Or would the investiture “leak out” somehow? Then we have the same question: would the investiture retain its original character as Odium’s? Or is Nightblood a “washing machine” that bleaches investiture of Odium’s character and adds back Endowment’s colors?

 

And there is this additional question: would the leaked bits of investiture try to keep Nightblood’s command? Would it matter whether the leaked investiture is from Odium or Endowment or might the command still apply in either event?

 

Question 2: What Happens If Nightblood Consumes a Shard?

 

Consuming the full investiture of a Shard is a different thing altogether than merely eating some of its investiture. Nightblood’s Breaths are barely a splinter’s worth of investiture compared to Odium’s full might. Does Odium’s investiture therefore overwhelm Endowment’s? Will Endowment’s mandate be lost against this tempest?

 

We also have Realmatic implications at the Shard level. Oudeis, you speculate that Nightblood’s mind would replace Rayse’s control of the power. That’s a reasonable though not required conclusion. Conversely, you also highlight Nightblood’s relatively undeveloped mind, which might enable Odium’s mandate to crush it, as Ruin’s mandate did to Ati’s “weak” mind (WoB). These speculations suggest RShara may have been right when she said that Nightblood would become Odium.

 

* * * * * * *

 

As you say, Oudeis, more questions than answers. Something more to look forward to as we bloviate about Nightblodium…

[Oudeis he/him]

I am not up to speed on "mandates". I confess I don't know that I agree with the underlying premise, and it got very big very fast, so I did not read much of it. Is there a cliff's notes that someone can explain it to me?

 

You bring up excellent questions; I have speculation, and nothing else, to mention in return, most of which I've already said.

 

We know Nightblood emits black smoke when drawn; it's speculated (and if I'm not mistaken, confirmed by WoB? Anyone have it to hand?) that the black smoke is "waste" from Nightblood's use of Investiture, specifically Breath as to date that's all we've seen.

 

What happens to the smoke? Why does some go up, and some go down? Is it physical in nature, and is it responding to simple density? Are they two products of the same process? Are they physical projections of something inherently spiritual in nature, and therefore obeying laws other than physics? We know he draws exponentially more Breath the longer he's drawn; is the output of smoke commensurate?

 

What happens to the smoke? Does it simply dissolve into the air into invisibility? Is there a danger to inhaling it? A benefit? Could it be bottled? Condensed? Sublimed? Made into a spike and used to hemalurgically steal a trait?

 

Can it be used to reconstitute Investiture?

 

What, really, is Breath? We know that normal people on other planets are closer to a person on Nalthis with their native Breath than a Drab; so then, is a Breath actually direct bits of Endowment's Investiture? Does she get weaker as more humans on Nalthis are produced, like Ruin and atium? Is it more like Preservation and the bit of himself put into humans, which I've always speculated is a set amount used to make a process, rather than an amount that fluctuates with how many humans are alive or dead.

 

So is Nightblood taking parts of Endowment's personal power? Or just destroying something constructed via Endowment's power?

 

We have been told that "spren" exist on every shardworld, it's just that they're only visible in the physical world on Roshar (that we've seen). Does every Tineye on Scadrial, drawing out Preservation's power, produce twin streams of black smoke, but it's not visible to the naked eye?

 

EDIT: Torn between "upvote" and "BOO" for the Bloviate Nightblodium line...

Edited September 4, 2015 by Oudeis

[Lindel he/him]

From what I understand, "mandate" is Confused's term for what we generally call Intent, although he seems use different words for a Shard's Intent as compared to its mandate.

[Confused]

Oudeis, I thought you'd appreciate that line! Thanks!

 

Lindel is correct. To me, "mandate" is the proper word for "intent" based on HoA text. I explain why in my admittedly bloviated "Mandates of the Known Shards" post. (If you skip the introduction, it's not so bad.)

 

Lindel is incorrect in thinking I "use different words for a Shard's Intent as compared to its mandate." They are equivalent terms. Chaos invented "intent" in an early and still excellent post; and I recently noticed Sazed use the term "mandate of its abilities" in HoA with reference to power. Feel free to use whatever word, but I prefer the one from the text.

 

Back to you Oudeis...did I understand that you got scared from reading the "Mandates" post because "it got very big very fast"?

 

My "underlying premise" in that post is that the name of a Shard does not necessarily signify its mandate. Mandates have to be viewed broadly and abstractly, beyond a simple definition of the Shard name. The critical question is how does the Shard's mandate cause it to express its power - what it DOES, not what its name means. I think, for example, Honor's mandate is "Relationships," a word I'm not fond of but well states how Honor expresses his power - IMO through social and physical bonds, organization, structure etc.

 

I THOUGHT you and I had a similar understanding about the nature of mandates. I recall you commenting on the Progression Surge in the prior Nightblood thread. You stated how people over-emphasize the "progress" - "forward" - part of "Progression." I agreed with what you said. Oh well...

 

A Realmatic issue: if everyone can see the smoke, it's in the Physical Realm.

 

I would like to see that WoB about "waste." That seems contrary to what Brandon has said about Endowment's investiture being "sticky." "Stickiness" suggests Endowment should not leak out of the sheath. WoB explicitly states Breath in this respect is unlike Stormlight. Maybe he's saying the smoke represents the non-investiture residue from whatever person Nightblood killed? Just seems strange...

Edited September 5, 2015 by Confused

[Oudeis he/him]

In the physical realm, yes. I suppose I should have said OF the Physical Realm.

 

Everyone can see Pattern. He's not one of the spren who can hide, and I believe there was a recent WoB saying no one is SprenBlind. But, he doesn't seem to obey the laws of physics. He can turn tumblers in a lock, but he travels beneath the surface of things and floats without apparent support.  What I was asking was, is part of the smoke floating upwards because it's less dense than the surround air? Or is it floating because it's got only a passing relationship with physical laws?

 

Will reply to the rest of it when I wake up in the morning...

[Dunkum he/him]

In the physical realm, yes. I suppose I should have said OF the Physical Realm.

 

Everyone can see Pattern. He's not one of the spren who can hide, and I believe there was a recent WoB saying no one is SprenBlind. But, he doesn't seem to obey the laws of physics. He can turn tumblers in a lock, but he travels beneath the surface of things and floats without apparent support.  What I was asking was, is part of the smoke floating upwards because it's less dense than the surround air? Or is it floating because it's got only a passing relationship with physical laws?

 

Will reply to the rest of it when I wake up in the morning...

As a rule, for investiture and shard related things, I tend to assume the "passing relationship with physical laws" idea.  when things don't behave how they normally would in the physical realm, I tend to assume it is because there is something else going on in the spiritual or cognitive.