What Do You Look Like?

[The Honor Spren she/her]

3 hours ago, dead-moth said:

I've quietly fallen off the earth lately (I blame college), but I've been following this convo via email notifications and --- oh boy weight loss

Hey, you guys, did you know weight and health are almost completely unrelated?

Huge rant under the cut!

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Did you know that doctors tend to not even test things like blood sugar or pressure in thinner patients because they don't think it's necessary?

You can have diabetes and heart disease and be conventionally "healthy" skinny. You can be nearly anywhere above that and be much healthier than someone smaller! 

Most of our medical suggestions on weight are unfounded in good science. Doctors will suggest weight loss to a healthy patient for no reason.

Our social stigmas against weight ARE NOT ABOUT HEALTH!! They're about LOOKS. We've programmed ourselves to find "thin" people attractive.

It's stupid and cruel and unnecessary. 

Weight isn't about eating. You are what you eat, sure, and excess energy is stored and all that, but it's a lot more complex than that. You can't just not eat and expect to be healthy!

People all have a point of weight homeostasis where their bodies will naturally gravitate towards. Doing rigorous, unexpected dieting puts your body in "starvation mode" -- it starts to burn its stored fat (and muscle reserves). Your poor, stressed body will rejoice when you stop starving yourself -- and save up until it can feel safe again. If your weight does not fluctuate and is remaining pretty stable (my stable point is like 160lbs), that might mean that's just how your body likes to be. And that isn't bad!!!! That isn't bad!!!

Humans are beautiful and incredible and following absolutely stupid social garbage about fat isn't helping you or any of us.

I'm not saying eating right isn't important. It's really important! It shouldn't be about weight --- it should be about health. Eating right makes you feel good, makes your skin glow and your head clear.

 It isn't math, though. It's not calories in -> calories out. We process FOOD, not calories. Aside from the fact that calories are notoriously inaccurate and hard to count, a "calorie" of almonds processes very differently from a "calorie" of, say, health cereal. Basically -- don't listen to em. They're garbage.

"Healthy food" costs 40% more on average than "normal food" --- except that healthy food isn't actually all that healthy. If something has health claims on a box, it's probably not healthy. If it has unpronounceable ingredients, probably not healthy. If your great great grandma wouldn't realize it's edible, probably not healthy. Basically, your best bet is to avoid processed food (even if they try to convince you they're healthy, they aren't). 

Also, the main thing that hurts you is sugar. Not fat, not anything else -- sugar. Fat is good and important for you to consume! Cholesterol eaten doesn't actually effect your cholesterol at all and is a necessary and healthful food. Drink whole milk -- removing the fat makes it so your body can't break down the nutrients in it. Eat eggs!! They're super good for you!!!

This isn't to say that you absolutely cannot ever eat anything processed or sugary. Just be careful, don't go to extremes. Also, homemade food is so much better for you than store food --- so by extension homemade doughnuts are more fun and more tasty and more healthy than a bag of lil debbie's.

I'll stop talking about food now, lol. I get really excited. I will 100% yell about it some more if y'all want but I don't want to be annoying!

 

tldr: Being thin or fat is no indicator of health. Our social stigma about fat is completely cosmetic, not medical. Bodies are different shapes and that's great!!! Love yours, it's beautiful. Take care of yourself. Eat good, whole food, but have fun too. 

As someone who has a skinny body shape, but just sits around all day and probably doesn't eat enough vegetables, I can attest to this.

Skinny and healthy are not synonymous.

[soyperson]

1 hour ago, Jondesu said:

Here's what I look like (my daughter too):

I like your beard.

[Jondesu he/him]

11 minutes ago, bleeder said:

I like your beard.

Thanks.  I'm a bit proud of it. :-)

[Oversleep]

Quote

If it has unpronounceable ingredients, probably not healthy.

By the way, have you heard of the biggest (although not the fastest) killer, the dihydrogen monoxide? Proved to be 100% lethal in long term.

Spoiler

Seriously though, even if something is named E666 it doesn't mean it isn't something completely mundane and common. Like salt, for example.

 

Edited March 6, 2017 by Oversleep

[Orlion Blight he/him]

On 8/5/2016 at 2:58 PM, Yata said:

Yeah, having an arbitrary rule against "unpronounceable foods" is silly. It's not based in the nutrition or toxicity of the comestibles in question. Seriously, how does, say, a vegetable become unhealthy if I present it to you with a Slavic name you can't say instead of one in a language you are familiar with?

[The Technovore he/him]

On 6/2/2015 at 5:25 PM, Slowswift said:

I'm tall.

 

Like, really, really, really tall. No, I don't play basketball. Yes, the weather is fine up here. 

 

White.

 

Probably could use a diet.

 

Brown hair.

 

Eyes that are just that one shade that makes it impossible to tell if I'd be lighteyed or darkeyed. Probably darkeyed.

Yea... basically the same here, I could try to describe myself, or I could just say I prolly look a lot like slowswift. So from now on my mental image of slowswift is going to be me 

[dead-moth she/her]

@Oversleep, @Orlion Determined -- sorry for any confusion. I don't mean foreign things or complicated names for water -- I mean non-food additives (things like preservatives, some colorings, conditioners, emulsifiers, things like that) that are added to change the chemical makeup of the food or make it keep longer. Things that fall into this category are usually not dangerous or anything, but their presence does mean that whatever you're eating has been heavily processed.  

(Also --- food labeling regulations, at least in the US, require that long latin or chemical names for ordinary things written on the tin are followed by the common name in parentheses! If it doesn't have the common name displayed, that almost invariably means the ingredient in question doesn't have a common name, just a scientific one.)

Edited March 6, 2017 by dead-moth
tiny clarification

[Kaymyth she/her]

6 hours ago, dead-moth said:

I've quietly fallen off the earth lately (I blame college), but I've been following this convo via email notifications and --- oh boy weight loss

Hey, you guys, did you know weight and health are almost completely unrelated?

Huge rant under the cut!

 

  Hide contents

 

Did you know that doctors tend to not even test things like blood sugar or pressure in thinner patients because they don't think it's necessary?

You can have diabetes and heart disease and be conventionally "healthy" skinny. You can be nearly anywhere above that and be much healthier than someone smaller! 

Most of our medical suggestions on weight are unfounded in good science. Doctors will suggest weight loss to a healthy patient for no reason.

Our social stigmas against weight ARE NOT ABOUT HEALTH!! They're about LOOKS. We've programmed ourselves to find "thin" people attractive.

It's stupid and cruel and unnecessary. 

Weight isn't about eating. You are what you eat, sure, and excess energy is stored and all that, but it's a lot more complex than that. You can't just not eat and expect to be healthy!

People all have a point of weight homeostasis where their bodies will naturally gravitate towards. Doing rigorous, unexpected dieting puts your body in "starvation mode" -- it starts to burn its stored fat (and muscle reserves). Your poor, stressed body will rejoice when you stop starving yourself -- and save up until it can feel safe again. If your weight does not fluctuate and is remaining pretty stable (my stable point is like 160lbs), that might mean that's just how your body likes to be. And that isn't bad!!!! That isn't bad!!!

Humans are beautiful and incredible and following absolutely stupid social garbage about fat isn't helping you or any of us.

I'm not saying eating right isn't important. It's really important! It shouldn't be about weight --- it should be about health. Eating right makes you feel good, makes your skin glow and your head clear.

 It isn't math, though. It's not calories in -> calories out. We process FOOD, not calories. Aside from the fact that calories are notoriously inaccurate and hard to count, a "calorie" of almonds processes very differently from a "calorie" of, say, health cereal. Basically -- don't listen to em. They're garbage.

"Healthy food" costs 40% more on average than "normal food" --- except that healthy food isn't actually all that healthy. If something has health claims on a box, it's probably not healthy. If it has unpronounceable ingredients, probably not healthy. If your great great grandma wouldn't realize it's edible, probably not healthy. Basically, your best bet is to avoid processed food (even if they try to convince you they're healthy, they aren't). 

Also, the main thing that hurts you is sugar. Not fat, not anything else -- sugar. Fat is good and important for you to consume! Cholesterol eaten doesn't actually effect your cholesterol at all and is a necessary and healthful food. Drink whole milk -- removing the fat makes it so your body can't break down the nutrients in it. Eat eggs!! They're super good for you!!!

This isn't to say that you absolutely cannot ever eat anything processed or sugary. Just be careful, don't go to extremes. Also, homemade food is so much better for you than store food --- so by extension homemade doughnuts are more fun and more tasty and more healthy than a bag of lil debbie's.

I'll stop talking about food now, lol. I get really excited. I will 100% yell about it some more if y'all want but I don't want to be annoying!

 

tldr: Being thin or fat is no indicator of health. Our social stigma about fat is completely cosmetic, not medical. Bodies are different shapes and that's great!!! Love yours, it's beautiful. Take care of yourself. Eat good, whole food, but have fun too. 

I agree that it's absurd for doctors to take one look at a person and decide that all of their problems are because of weight.

But on the flip side, my current homeostasis level doesn't work well with my pathetically weak joints.  Dropping 20 pounds is going to make my knees much happier with their lot in life.  And once I achieve that new weight, I'm going to have to fight to stay there until I can reprogram my body to recognize that as its new threshold of homeostasis.

Also, I tend to gain weight around my middle, which gives me a higher percentage of visceral body fat.  This is a risk factor for a higher rate of heart disease, so it's in my heart's best interest for me to trim some of that stuff away.

So sometimes these things are linked.  Not all the time, but it's always a good idea to take a look at everything as a whole and see how it's all interconnected.  Sometimes there's no connection, sometimes there is.  And then sometimes people gain weight because of a different underlying health condition.

[dead-moth she/her]

1 minute ago, Kaymyth said:

I agree that it's absurd for doctors to take one look at a person and decide that all of their problems are because of weight.

But on the flip side, my current homeostasis level doesn't work well with my pathetically weak joints.  Dropping 20 pounds is going to make my knees much happier with their lot in life.  And once I achieve that new weight, I'm going to have to fight to stay there until I can reprogram my body to recognize that as its new threshold of homeostasis.

Also, I tend to gain weight around my middle, which gives me a higher percentage of visceral body fat.  This is a risk factor for a higher rate of heart disease, so it's in my heart's best interest for me to trim some of that stuff away.

So sometimes these things are linked.  Not all the time, but it's always a good idea to take a look at everything as a whole and see how it's all interconnected.  Sometimes there's no connection, sometimes there is.  And then sometimes people gain weight because of a different underlying health condition.

Hello --- good points all.  

Mostly I just want people to know that healthy doesn't mean skinny. Our fat=bad/skinny=good social structure is really destructive and hurtful, and it's important to know that.

Human bodies are complicated, and things interact with each other in ways we don't quite understand, and in ways we have a handle on.

You make good points!! It's important to recognize unhealth and take steps to change it, but part of that is being able to accurately recognize health and unhealth without confusing them with weird social constructs. Thanks!!

[Erunion he/him]

@dead-moth - 90% agree, as a slim person who needs to work on their healthy habits. Also, skinny is generally BAD for you, as your body has no reserves and gets stressed easily. Doubly so if you're not eating right. 
HOWEVER, being significantly overweight is very unhealthy. Generally speaking, everyone has a 'proper' weight. Being 10-20 pounds under, or being 30-40 pounds over doesn't significantly affect your health as long as you're eating reasonably well and exercising a bit. Being a little 'chubby' (reasonable layer of fat) is actually good for you. Being significantly overweight is not. 

Other points - artificial ingredients aren't necessarily bad, and natural ingredients aren't necessarily good (remember kids! Cyanide is natural!). However, highly processed food is problematic (I'll explain more in a sec) regardless, and home cooking is the way to go - if you have the time. Also, excess sugar (and high-fructose corn syrup!) is very bad. 
 

Weight loss, if you strictly are trying to lose weight, is calories in - calories out. It's basic conservation of mass/energy. However, there are a few problems. Firstly, health. Sure, you can lose weight eating a diet of mcdonalds burgers and shakes, but your body is going to hate you for it. That is so bad for you in other ways, that even though you're losing weight you are also seriously hurting your heart, cognition, everything. Secondly, processed foods are processed, which can also be translated 'pre-digested'. This is why people tend to gain weight with processed foods - although the number of available calories may be the same, your body will uptake calories much more easily from processed foods, as part of the digestive process is usually already done. This means that processed foods have more calories for less 'fullness', making them deceptive, and you will also get more calories out of a 100 kcal processed whatever than you will out of a 100 kcal non-processed whatever - your body will uptake maybe 95 kcal with the processed vs. 80-85 with the non-processed. (I think. Anyone with nutrition training able to correct?)

Tl;dr - it's ok to be chubby. It's not ok to be obese. Watch for the difference. It's ok to be slim, its not ok to be super skinny (or emaciated). Watch for the difference. Fancy scientific names aren't necessarily bad, but processed food generally is. Try to avoid it (although it is much easier/faster to eat and put together. Find a good balance). Weight loss is strictly calories in vs. calories out, but there's a world of difference between healthy and unhealthy weight loss. Same with weight gain. 

[Mestiv he/him]

Best way to lose fat is to replace it with muscles! Don't go on a diet, go to a gym as much as you can! That's all I have to add in the subject of weight loss

I am currently doing my best to gain weight and lose some fat. 

[Oversleep]

What @Erunion said. So much. He took all my thoughts and put them in nice words and explained stuff. And what @Mestiv said - when you're exercising, losing weight may not be the problem but gaining it. Isn't fat like over two times volume of the same mass of muscles or something?

[Left he/him]

1 minute ago, Mestiv said:

Best way to lose fat is to replace it with muscles! Don't go on a diet, go to a gym as much as you can! That's all I have to add in the subject of weight loss

I am currently doing my best to gain weight and lose some fat. 

At least for myself, I totally agree. I've never been close to having unhealthy amounts of fat, but I'm not always at the level of slim that makes me feel comfortable. I'm predominantly a runner, and when I run regularly and do other exercises I'm leaner, lose both weight and fat, and am mentally and physically healthier. 

I eat close to the same when I'm in a non-running slump as when I'm in, but I do tend to eat better and maybe a little less when I am regularly exercising. 

Is exercise the best way to lose weight? Meh, from what I've read and personal experience, I don't think so. But I definitely agree that as far as just losing fat goes, exercise is my favorite way. I know a lot of people loathe hard exercise, most of my friends do, but aside from switching from eating crap to really healthy stuff or giving up smoking and drinking, I don't think there's a single other change in lifestyle that brings as many health benefits. 

[AeonaRin she/her]

23 minutes ago, Mestiv said:

Best way to lose fat is to replace it with muscles! Don't go on a diet, go to a gym as much as you can!

Easier said than done I've been a dancer for 10 years, my spine is rubbish now. I can't, as in I'm not able to, do any strength workout. I can only do some cardio (my knees are also rubbish) on trampoline or in water, and corrective training. Without diet I lost 3 kg so far xD and I'm seriously scared of dieting because it always ended in starving myself before. 

Fortunately I don't give any storms* about being chubby anymore. 

 

*Leaving it a curse to see what the filter will do with it. 

[Darkness Ascendant he/him]

7 hours ago, dead-moth said:

I've quietly fallen off the earth lately (I blame college), but I've been following this convo via email notifications and --- oh boy weight loss

Hey, you guys, did you know weight and health are almost completely unrelated?

Huge rant under the cut!

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Did you know that doctors tend to not even test things like blood sugar or pressure in thinner patients because they don't think it's necessary?

You can have diabetes and heart disease and be conventionally "healthy" skinny. You can be nearly anywhere above that and be much healthier than someone smaller! 

Most of our medical suggestions on weight are unfounded in good science. Doctors will suggest weight loss to a healthy patient for no reason.

Our social stigmas against weight ARE NOT ABOUT HEALTH!! They're about LOOKS. We've programmed ourselves to find "thin" people attractive.

It's stupid and cruel and unnecessary. 

Weight isn't about eating. You are what you eat, sure, and excess energy is stored and all that, but it's a lot more complex than that. You can't just not eat and expect to be healthy!

People all have a point of weight homeostasis where their bodies will naturally gravitate towards. Doing rigorous, unexpected dieting puts your body in "starvation mode" -- it starts to burn its stored fat (and muscle reserves). Your poor, stressed body will rejoice when you stop starving yourself -- and save up until it can feel safe again. If your weight does not fluctuate and is remaining pretty stable (my stable point is like 160lbs), that might mean that's just how your body likes to be. And that isn't bad!!!! That isn't bad!!!

Humans are beautiful and incredible and following absolutely stupid social garbage about fat isn't helping you or any of us.

I'm not saying eating right isn't important. It's really important! It shouldn't be about weight --- it should be about health. Eating right makes you feel good, makes your skin glow and your head clear.

 It isn't math, though. It's not calories in -> calories out. We process FOOD, not calories. Aside from the fact that calories are notoriously inaccurate and hard to count, a "calorie" of almonds processes very differently from a "calorie" of, say, health cereal. Basically -- don't listen to em. They're garbage.

"Healthy food" costs 40% more on average than "normal food" --- except that healthy food isn't actually all that healthy. If something has health claims on a box, it's probably not healthy. If it has unpronounceable ingredients, probably not healthy. If your great great grandma wouldn't realize it's edible, probably not healthy. Basically, your best bet is to avoid processed food (even if they try to convince you they're healthy, they aren't). 

Also, the main thing that hurts you is sugar. Not fat, not anything else -- sugar. Fat is good and important for you to consume! Cholesterol eaten doesn't actually effect your cholesterol at all and is a necessary and healthful food. Drink whole milk -- removing the fat makes it so your body can't break down the nutrients in it. Eat eggs!! They're super good for you!!!

This isn't to say that you absolutely cannot ever eat anything processed or sugary. Just be careful, don't go to extremes. Also, homemade food is so much better for you than store food --- so by extension homemade doughnuts are more fun and more tasty and more healthy than a bag of lil debbie's.

I'll stop talking about food now, lol. I get really excited. I will 100% yell about it some more if y'all want but I don't want to be annoying!

 

tldr: Being thin or fat is no indicator of health. Our social stigma about fat is completely cosmetic, not medical. Bodies are different shapes and that's great!!! Love yours, it's beautiful. Take care of yourself. Eat good, whole food, but have fun too. 

I totally agree! Alot of people would call me healthy, but what I think I've been doing lately is burning muscle instead of fat due to lack of sleep, food and water >>

Amazing how body image views have changed so much over the years.

[Jedal he/him]

24 minutes ago, Darkness Ascendant said:

I totally agree! Alot of people would call me healthy, but what I think I've been doing lately is burning muscle instead of fat due to lack of sleep, food and water >>

Amazing how body image views have changed so much over the years.

I'm also very skinny, but I think that I'm fine. As long as I can walk and talk and think, I'm okay.

[Darkness Ascendant he/him]

Just now, Jedal said:

I'm also very skinny, but I think that I'm fine. As long as I can walk and talk and think, I'm okay.

Tis what I say... until of course, I can't walk, talk or think

[Jedal he/him]

Just now, Darkness Ascendant said:

Tis what I say... until of course, I can't walk, talk or think

Eh. Thinking and walking and talking are overrated. I'll take breathing.

[Darkness Ascendant he/him]

1 minute ago, Jedal said:

Eh. Thinking and walking and talking are overrated. I'll take breathing.

*shakes head

[Jedal he/him]

Just now, Darkness Ascendant said:

*shakes head

*breathes rapidly, as though humored

[Delightful]

5 hours ago, Mestiv said:

Best way to lose fat is to replace it with muscles! Don't go on a diet, go to a gym as much as you can! That's all I have to add in the subject of weight loss

I am currently doing my best to gain weight and lose some fat. 

I'll add my voice in. When I get more healthy I tend to stay the same weight or gain; and switch fat for muscle. And feeling guilty about not dropping numbers is dumb so I usually ignore the scale. I ran to catch public transport today, which I would have felt uncoordinated doing a year ago. So that's a health plus in my book. 

5 hours ago, strumienpola said:

Easier said than done I've been a dancer for 10 years, my spine is rubbish now. I can't, as in I'm not able to, do any strength workout. I can only do some cardio (my knees are also rubbish) on trampoline or in water, and corrective training. Without diet I lost 3 kg so far xD and I'm seriously scared of dieting because it always ended in starving myself before. 

Fortunately I don't give any storms* about being chubby anymore. 

 

*Leaving it a curse to see what the filter will do with it. 

Um. By starving do you mean eating disorder?

You could try a dietician to make sure you get enough food. 

[AeonaRin she/her]

2 hours ago, Deliiiiiightful said:

Um. By starving do you mean eating disorder?

You could try a dietician to make sure you get enough food. 

Yeah. I'm struggling for years, and even now, when I've finally grown to accept my body the way it is, I still have this awful feeling of pride when I eat one meal a day only. So out of fear it might end up the way it always has I prefer to not restrict my diet at all. I don't think a dietician would help, as I still would have to put effort in making meals that are not as... rewarding for my brain and soon would switch to giving up food whatsoever. It had happened before. But, as I'm making progress in my remission I hope I will be able to maintain a healthy diet one day. It's a stormed up condition, It's better to never develop it, that's why I warn other people about losing weight with self-disgust as their motivation. 

[Elenion he/him]

 I'm one of those guys who is perpetually skinny.  I'm 5'10" and 145 pounds, and I eat more food than most, mostly carbs. Whatever I do, I can't gain weight, and my exercise doesn't make me lose weight either.  I'm just stuck at 145, which, admittedly, isn't that far off from normal, but my point is that our bodies do indeed have a weight that they want to stay at, or at least mine does.

[Kaymyth she/her]

15 hours ago, Elenion said:

 I'm one of those guys who is perpetually skinny.  I'm 5'10" and 145 pounds, and I eat more food than most, mostly carbs. Whatever I do, I can't gain weight, and my exercise doesn't make me lose weight either.  I'm just stuck at 145, which, admittedly, isn't that far off from normal, but my point is that our bodies do indeed have a weight that they want to stay at, or at least mine does.

You're still pretty young, right?  Your situation isn't unusual in teenaged males, and it can persist into your early twenties.  You'll reach a point sooner or later where you'll be able to fill out a bit more and no longer starving every two hours.

[Orlion Blight he/him]

18 minutes ago, Kaymyth said:

You're still pretty young, right?  Your situation isn't unusual in teenaged males, and it can persist into your early twenties.  You'll reach a point sooner or later where you'll be able to fill out a bit more and no longer starving every two hours.

Nooo, the starving every two hours still remains