Deception He/Him Posted May 3 Posted May 3 Who would the most insanely overpowered possible normal mortal be (without Shard intervention)? Try to beat mine: - Originated on Scadrial as a Mistborn and full Feruchemist - Traveled to Roshar through the cognitive realm and obtained all of the Honorblades - Bonded the Stormfather and became a Bondsmith of the highest ideal - Has possession of Nightblood - Knows about Anti-Light and knows how to make it and how to create Anti-Light knives and swords
PanLin they/he Posted May 3 Posted May 3 (edited) tl;dr: Taking your question as-is, being a master of anti-light is imo the strongest you can get (considering every opponent and obstacle you face will likely be Invested) while technically keeping to the 'no Shardic intervention' rule. If we ignore that rule, I reckon a full Metalborn with a Trellium spike is about as close as you can get to god-level power without ascending. So, first of all, how do you define 'Shard intervention'? Being a Mistborn requires having a piece of Preservation in your spiritweb Honorblades are literally pieces of Honor Even if we don't count spren as Shardic intervention, the Stormfather again is/contains the largest remaining fragment of Honor Nightblood is iffy, but we don't fully know how they were made Anti-light is probably the cleanest option here, but even then, it requires attuning to a Shard with the Intent to disrupt it Sorry, not trying to poo-poo your ideas, but since the Shattering, ALL Investiture is inherently Shardic intervention. I suppose if you found a way to access the spiritual realm without Invested means (which I assume is impossible), you might be able to gather some raw Investiture that isn't linked to a Shard (though I think that would technically just be Adonalsic intervention). If I stop being pedantic about the Shardic intervention, here's how I'd rank your suggestions: Spoiler Full Metalborn: the ability to Compound every metal is insanely strong (Miles Hundredlives was MAD scary and powerful, and he only had access to c-gold). Supersonic speed, perfect movable time bubbles, superhuman strength, wild emotional manipulation, the list goes on; all of them are able to be even further boosted with c-duralamin. A full Compounder is probably their own biggest threat, though I suspect having the full range of abilities would let them avoid the dangers normally associated with Compounding and savantism. Bonus: If you're familiar with hemalurgy as well, grab yourself a Trellium spike and make yourself hidden/resistant to direct Shardic interference. Anti-light master: as I mentioned above, if we assume that most threats you'll face in the Cosmere are Invested, then having access to every type of anti-light basically renders all of them useless. Bonus points for being able to blow anyone up if you can get the right anti-light into their body while they're Invested. 5th level Stormfather Bondsmith: the Stormfather, for all intents and purposes, basically was Honor. Bonding him and achieving your final ideal would allow for some nutty stuff, I'm sure. 10 Honorblades: I'd wager not as outright strong as above, but super versatile. Each blade carries a piece of Honor, making you super duper Invested by default, and I wouldn't be surprised if having double access to each Surge makes them stronger. Nightblood: we've seen people using Nightblood. Sure, Nightblood themself is one of the strongest Invested entities in the Cosmere, but that strength doesn't quite transfer to the wielder like it does with Honorblades. Edited May 3 by PanLin 2
Qianweilian He/him Posted May 3 Posted May 3 (edited) 1 hour ago, PanLin said: tl;dr: It's not even that long... 1 hour ago, PanLin said: I reckon a full Metalborn with a Trellium spike is about as close as you can get to god-level power without ascending. Why a trellium spike? I don't get the point of this. 1 hour ago, PanLin said: Even if we don't count spren as Shardic intervention, the Stormfather again is/contains the largest remaining fragment of Honor Have you read WaT? 1 hour ago, PanLin said: Sorry, not trying to poo-poo your ideas, but since the Shattering, ALL Investiture is inherently Shardic intervention. What about the Aethers? Also, I disagree with your interpretation of Shardic intervention. Intervention implies direct action. Using investiture is not Shardic intervention any more than stealing a fighter jet and shooting someone is intervention by the United States. 1 hour ago, PanLin said: though I think that would technically just be Adonalsic intervention Well, Adonalsium isn't really a shard, if you're going to be semantic about it. 1 hour ago, PanLin said: If I stop being pedantic about the Shardic intervention, here's how I'd rank your suggestions: You're not being pedantic about intervention. That's just not what it means. 1 hour ago, PanLin said: c-gold I don't understand your "c-x" notation. What does this mean? 1 hour ago, PanLin said: I suspect having the full range of abilities would let them avoid the dangers normally associated with Compounding and savantism. Why? Rashek was a savant. Spoiler theFinisher4Ever Was the Lord Ruler using Feruchemy + Allomancy to Soothe all of the people around him? Or was he, as I like to think, flaring for so long that he became a Soother Savant? Brandon Sanderson He lived long enough and used his metals enough (particularly Soothing) to become nearly a savant in every area, if not a full savant. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/190/#e4070 1 hour ago, PanLin said: If you're familiar with hemalurgy as well, grab yourself a Trellium spike and make yourself hidden/resistant to direct Shardic interference. I don't think you know what Trellium does. That was only for individuals already spiked to be protected from Harmony. Also, I suspect they were controllable (or at least influenced) by Autonomy. 1 hour ago, PanLin said: Anti-light master: as I mentioned above, if we assume that most threats you'll face in the Cosmere are Invested, then having access to every type of anti-light basically renders all of them useless. Bonus points for being able to blow anyone up if you can get the right anti-light into their body while they're Invested. At its greatest potential, this is just a gun that hits really hard. Useless when your opponents can move at supersonic speeds. Edit: also, the explosion was more due to the fact that it was a Fused with a gemheart. Most people don't have a gemheart. 1 hour ago, PanLin said: 5th level Stormfather Bondsmith: the Stormfather, for all intents and purposes, basically was Honor. Bonding him and achieving your final ideal would allow for some nutty stuff, I'm sure. Are you sure that you have read WaT? 1 hour ago, PanLin said: Nightblood: we've seen people using Nightblood. Sure, Nightblood themself is one of the strongest Invested entities in the Cosmere, but that strength doesn't quite transfer to the wielder like it does with Honorblades. WaT spoilers, because you clearly haven't read WaT. Spoiler Nightblood can give surges! What do you mean the "strength doesn't quite transfer to the wielder"? You haven't even mentioned Heralds, Elantrians, dragons, etc. Edited May 3 by Qianweilian
PanLin they/he Posted May 3 Posted May 3 (edited) 1 hour ago, Qianweilian said: It's not even that long... Eh, I have a habit of rambling so I try to make sure I lead with my actual point. 1 hour ago, Qianweilian said: Why a trellium spike? I don't get the point of this. 1 hour ago, Qianweilian said: I don't think you know what Trellium does. That was only for individuals already spiked to be protected from Harmony. Also, I suspect they were controllable (or at least influenced) by Autonomy. It hides the recipient from Harmony (it's how Bleeder was able to operate the way she did); I assumed that property would extend to other Shards, but I had forgotten that Autonomy can take control of people through it, so maybe not from the wiki: Spoiler Using it as a Hemalurgic spike can keep the user hidden from Harmony.[10][11] This has a limited effect, however, and any more than a single spike will make the user visible to the Shard. It is an inherent property of the metal, and not a Hemalurgic attribute, that hides the user.[10] 1 hour ago, Qianweilian said: Have you read WaT? Yep! All up to date—did I get something wrong? 1 hour ago, Qianweilian said: What about the Aethers? Also, I disagree with your interpretation of Shardic intervention. Intervention implies direct action. Using investiture is not Shardic intervention any more than stealing a fighter jet and shooting someone is intervention by the United States. Ha I genuinely forgot about aethers, good point! I wonder if there's a type of anti-light that would work against them. And yes, agreed re 'intervention', which is why I answered the question as-is anyway 1 hour ago, Qianweilian said: I don't understand your "c-x" notation. What does this mean? Ah sorry—Compounding. 1 hour ago, Qianweilian said: Why? Rashek was a savant. Yep! And he had access to all the abilities. Savantism is normally pretty detrimental, more so for some metals than others. Harmony 'cured' Spook of his savantism, further implying it's a negative/harmful thing. From the wiki: Quote It is dangerous and harmful to the body. The Allomancer might rely so much on or get so accustomed to the metal that when they extinguish the metal, they experience serious withdrawal effects. With most metals, the effects are quite small. Seekers, for example, often become savants without being aware of it, granting them a boost to the range of their abilities. However, some metals warp the body of savants much more. Tin savants experience such magnification of their senses that they can become incapacitated by bright light or loud sounds. Pewter Mistings often die before becoming savants,[4] as they feel neither pain nor exhaustion to any great extent and therefore may ignore wounds that later prove fatal. Pewter savants heal quickly, though not as fast as someone tapping health from a goldmind.[5] 1 hour ago, Qianweilian said: At its greatest potential, this is just a gun that hits really hard. Useless when your opponents can move at supersonic speeds. Edit: also, the explosion was more due to the fact that it was a Fused with a gemheart. Most people don't have a gemheart. Yeah both valid points! I suppose even a theoretical bubble shield of anti-light is useless if someone with F-steel just runs around you and fires a bunch of automatic weapons at you from outside said bubble. 1 hour ago, Qianweilian said: WaT spoilers, because you clearly haven't read WaT. I'd really like to know what I got wrong I'm sure it's unintentional, but this whole reply reads a bit hostile/condescending. 1 hour ago, Qianweilian said: Spoiler Nightblood can give surges! What do you mean the "strength doesn't quite transfer to the wielder"? Which puts it on-par with the Honorblades, with the extra downside that Nightblood will try to kill you every time you wield them. 1 hour ago, Qianweilian said: You haven't even mentioned Heralds, Elantrians, dragons, etc. Dragons definitely aren't normal mortals and the Heralds were definitely created with direct Shardic intervention (similar to Returned and arguably similar to Elantrians). Plus, I really think a full Metalborn who knows what they're doing is up there. Edited May 3 by PanLin
Qianweilian He/him Posted May 3 Posted May 3 26 minutes ago, PanLin said: Yep! All up to date—did I get something wrong? 26 minutes ago, PanLin said: I'd really like to know what I got wrong I'm sure it's unintentional, but this whole reply reads a bit hostile/condescending. Sorry, I'm not trying to be condescending. Sorry if I am unintentionally doing so. What I mean by that is that the question of a Stormfather bondsmith is rather moot, as the Stormfather doesn't really exist anymore. 28 minutes ago, PanLin said: Yep! And he had access to all the abilities. Savantism is normally pretty detrimental, more so for some metals than others. Harmony 'cured' Spook of his savantism, further implying it's a negative/harmful thing. From the wiki Yes, I agree. What I was responding to was your earlier comment how you "suspect having the full range of abilities would let them avoid the dangers [of]...savantism." I think a fullborn would still suffer from it, though maybe not in ways that detract from combat ability. 31 minutes ago, PanLin said: Which puts it on-par with the Honorblades, with the extra downside that Nightblood will try to kill you every time you wield them. Yes, of course. I was referring to your comment of the strength not transferring to the wielder, which I would argue against. 33 minutes ago, PanLin said: Dragons definitely aren't normal mortals What exactly is a "normal mortal" though? A plain reading suggests an average Joe without powers, which defeats the purpose of this thread. 34 minutes ago, PanLin said: the Heralds were definitely created with direct Shardic intervention Fair enough. 35 minutes ago, PanLin said: Plus, I really think a full Metalborn who knows what they're doing is up there. I'm not disagreeing, just adding to the discussion. The real answer is some combination of Treamayne and Frustration. The result would probably be enough to make the shards tremble. 1
PanLin they/he Posted May 3 Posted May 3 27 minutes ago, Qianweilian said: Sorry, I'm not trying to be condescending. Sorry if I am unintentionally doing so. What I mean by that is that the question of a Stormfather bondsmith is rather moot, as the Stormfather doesn't really exist anymore. No worries, I always appreciate the discussion! And yeah for sure that's moot, I was just responding to the original post as a theoretical point 28 minutes ago, Qianweilian said: Yes, I agree. What I was responding to was your earlier comment how you "suspect having the full range of abilities would let them avoid the dangers [of]...savantism." I think a fullborn would still suffer from it, though maybe not in ways that detract from combat ability. Ah understood, and yes agreed! I just mean that, with the sheer power and versatility available to a Fullborn, I imagine they'd have ways of preventing or recovering from the savantism that would be super dangerous to a Misting. 29 minutes ago, Qianweilian said: Yes, of course. I was referring to your comment of the strength not transferring to the wielder, which I would argue against. Gotcha, valid call-out. 30 minutes ago, Qianweilian said: What exactly is a "normal mortal" though? A plain reading suggests an average Joe without powers, which defeats the purpose of this thread. Well yes exactly, hence my pedantry in my first post 31 minutes ago, Qianweilian said: I'm not disagreeing, just adding to the discussion. 31 minutes ago, Qianweilian said: The real answer is some combination of Treamayne and Frustration. The result would probably be enough to make the shards tremble. Honestly
Frustration Posted May 3 Posted May 3 Well Dawnshards and using perpendicularites aren't shardaic intervention, so that. Either one is far more powerful than anything listed here. Assuming those are also off limits 1. Be a dragon, particularly one of the chasmfiend sized ones. 2. Get a lot of breath, as it's really the only known investiture they aren't already too invested to use. 3. Collect other important and powerful people to do things for you. 4. Profit 1
Qianweilian He/him Posted May 3 Posted May 3 11 minutes ago, Frustration said: Well Dawnshards and using perpendicularites aren't shardaic intervention, so that. Either one is far more powerful than anything listed here. Assuming those are also off limits 1. Be a dragon, particularly one of the chasmfiend sized ones. 2. Get a lot of breath, as it's really the only known investiture they aren't already too invested to use. 3. Collect other important and powerful people to do things for you. 4. Profit Oh yeah, I forgot about Dawnshards. I still think you combined with Treamayne would be more dangerous though. 1
CoderDrag0n8 He/They Posted May 3 Posted May 3 4 hours ago, PanLin said: arguably similar to Elantrians I think if the shard is dead it can't 'intervene' So heres the plan 1. Be Elantrian 2. Be Bondsmith (Perferably with nightwatcher, gives all the benefits of not being tied to Retribution) 3. Get a chiri chiri 4. Collect as many breaths as you can 5. win Or, if it is allowed Spoiler 1. be Feruchemist 2. find the Well of Ascension (don't forget to bring your nicrosil!) 3. take 2 lerasium beads 4. Eat 1 (become fullborn) 5. Use the other 1-9 (depending on when you get there) and store all that investiture in your nicrosil 6. Compound 7. Ascend (if you can't, then: Spoiler 7. Go to roshar 8. Steal Lightweaving/Elsecalling honorblade (& become a bondsmith if you have the time) 9. Use all your stored investiture in your nicrosil to soulcast some shardmetals 10. Use mistborn powers to burn said shardmetals 11. Get funky powers ) LISTEN I START AS A NORMAL MORTAL
Through the Living Hopper He/Him Posted May 3 Posted May 3 @Deception, you might want to slow down on creating new topics. Three of the last four topics were by you and you don't want to seem like you're spamming. I think that a Chromium Compounder in any form will always be the most overpowered person in the Cosmere.
Nitpicking Posted May 3 Posted May 3 I can argue that someone like Treamayne or Chaos would be the most powerful of all. They've read the books. Chaos has actually advised Brandon on creating the Cosmere. (I don't know if Treamayne is also a beta reader.) I mean, unless you let Brandon be the normal person .... 1
CoderDrag0n8 He/They Posted May 3 Posted May 3 4 minutes ago, Nitpicking said: I can argue that someone like Treamayne or Chaos would be the most powerful of all. They've read the books. Chaos has actually advised Brandon on creating the Cosmere. (I don't know if Treamayne is also a beta reader.) I mean, unless you let Brandon be the normal person .... Nah. Treamayne would be more OP than all the mods and editors + brandon. He memorized the entire coppermind & Arcanum, he knows anything and everything he possibly could know.
Nitpicking Posted May 3 Posted May 3 1 minute ago, CoderDrag0n8 said: Nah. Treamayne would be more OP than all the mods and editors + brandon. He memorized the entire coppermind & Arcanum, he knows anything and everything he possibly could know. According to one canon book, Chaos lives in Silverlight already, of course.
Qianweilian He/him Posted May 3 Posted May 3 2 hours ago, CoderDrag0n8 said: Nah. Treamayne would be more OP than all the mods and editors + brandon. He memorized the entire coppermind & Arcanum, he knows anything and everything he possibly could know. Frustration too. He also read the entire arcanum. 1
CoderDrag0n8 He/They Posted May 4 Posted May 4 (edited) 51 minutes ago, Qianweilian said: Frustration too. He also read the entire arcanum. Yes but he doesn't cite his sources nor memorized it all Edited May 4 by CoderDrag0n8
Frustration Posted May 4 Posted May 4 12 hours ago, CoderDrag0n8 said: Yes but he doesn't cite his sources nor memorized it all Hey. Now I'll admit I could do better with posting the WoBs, but I do still cite them. And bold of you to assume I haven't memorized all of it. 4
Qianweilian He/him Posted May 4 Posted May 4 7 hours ago, Frustration said: Hey. Now I'll admit I could do better with posting the WoBs, but I do still cite them. And bold of you to assume I haven't memorized all of it. Actually, @Frustration, I've realized you don't count! After all, you are, and I quote, "the Shard of Progress and theory," are you not? That's Shardic intervention, which falls outside the prompt. 1
CoderDrag0n8 He/They Posted May 4 Posted May 4 2 hours ago, Qianweilian said: Actually, @Frustration, I've realized you don't count! After all, you are, and I quote, "the Shard of Progress and theory," are you not? That's Shardic intervention, which falls outside the prompt. AH AHAHAHAHA YES TREAMAYNE 4EVA
Qianweilian He/him Posted May 5 Posted May 5 1 hour ago, CoderDrag0n8 said: AH AHAHAHAHA YES TREAMAYNE 4EVA I'm tempted to ping Treamayne just to see the response.
CoderDrag0n8 He/They Posted May 5 Posted May 5 7 minutes ago, Qianweilian said: I'm tempted to ping Treamayne just to see the response. @Treamayne
Qianweilian He/him Posted May 5 Posted May 5 2 minutes ago, CoderDrag0n8 said: @Treamayne Noooooooooooo..... What have you done?
Treamayne Posted May 5 Posted May 5 (edited) On 5/4/2026 at 8:58 PM, CoderDrag0n8 said: On 5/4/2026 at 8:50 PM, Qianweilian said: I'm tempted to ping Treamayne just to see the response. @Treamayne Response to which? The OP or the OT? On 5/3/2026 at 7:29 PM, Qianweilian said: Frustration too. He also read the entire arcanum. Who hasn't? My preferred method when starting was to start with a tag, read all the entries under that tag while splitting off related tags to new tabs - then read those. epeat as needed. On 5/3/2026 at 8:21 PM, CoderDrag0n8 said: Yes but he doesn't cite his sources nor memorized it all @Frustration cites often and well. Also, @alder24 is likely better than I am at citing responses. Regardless, it's not about what has been memorized (I also have not memorized everything) it's about practicing Search techniques to find the sources when you need them (which is why I made the primer on Searching Coppermind and Arcanum in the Sharder FAQ). I'm also lucky enough to have all of the ebooks in Calibre, which makes searching text much easier as well (RegEx searches). The rest comes from repetition and practice - knowing there are one or more WoBs to answer a question and what keywords to use to find them efficiently. If you start responding to questions now, you'll quickly notice how often the same questions re-appear and know how to find those references quickly. Update: I'm sorry @CoderDrag0n8 and @Qianweilian I'm guessing the lack of response is because I have failed to provide the humourous response you were expecting. I'll try harder next time. Edited May 6 by Treamayne SPAG/Update 3
alder24 Posted May 5 Posted May 5 On 5/3/2026 at 8:58 AM, Deception said: Who would the most insanely overpowered possible normal mortal be (without Shard intervention)? Try to beat mine: - Originated on Scadrial as a Mistborn and full Feruchemist - Traveled to Roshar through the cognitive realm and obtained all of the Honorblades - Bonded the Stormfather and became a Bondsmith of the highest ideal - Has possession of Nightblood - Knows about Anti-Light and knows how to make it and how to create Anti-Light knives and swords On 5/3/2026 at 4:31 PM, PanLin said: Dragons definitely aren't normal mortals and the Heralds were definitely created with direct Shardic intervention (similar to Returned and arguably similar to Elantrians). No Shard intervention? Is being an Elantrian count as Shardic intervention or not? If yes than it gets really tricky as Nightblood was made with Endovment's intervention, all Rosharan Godspren were also created directly by Honor/Cultivation, Honorblades were made by Honor and Mistborns were first created due to direct Preservation intervention - he left Lerasium beads near his perpendicularity on purpose. It's likely that even Feruchemists were created directly by Preservation and Fullborn are basically possible only with a direct Shardic intervention. To be fair, you can reasonably argue that all invested arts in Cosmere are a result of a Shardic intervention. Spoiler OrangeJedi When Nightblood created, was Endowment involved in any way more than normal? Brandon Sanderson Good question, you qualified that the right way! I would say yes, but maybe not to the extent you're thinking. OrangeJedi Normal being using Endowment's Investiture to Awaken. There's something special. Brandon Sanderson I would say, there is something special. Legion Release Party (Sept. 19, 2018) Spoiler Questioner How were the original beads of Lerasium created? Brandon Sanderson They were created for the purpose that they were originally used for. Questioner Who created them? Brandon Sanderson They were created by Leras. Words of Radiance Seattle signing (March 8, 2014) But @Nitpicking aside, being an Elantrian is quite op as with enough time and preparation they can replicate effects of almost all other invested arts in Cosmere. Make them a Forger and a Bondsmith as well, Feruchemist or even a Fullborn and why not give them 10th Heightening worth of Breaths and slap a Dawnshard on top of it. Dawnshards make everyone op. 11 hours ago, Treamayne said: @Frustration cites often and well. Also, @alder24 is likely better than I am at citing responses. You're spoiling me. I'm just reading WoBs out of boredom and that's why I do remember the most important ones, the rest is as you said, being able to use Arcanum's search engine properly with the aid of the Coppermind articles. 3
Frustration Posted May 8 Posted May 8 (edited) On 5/4/2026 at 9:39 PM, Treamayne said: My preferred method when starting was to start with a tag, read all the entries under that tag while splitting off related tags to new tabs - then read those. repeat as needed. Interesting, I like to go by entries starting at the oldest and working my way up. That way I don't miss anything and I can find the "Unsearchable" WoBs, even though most of those aren't very useful. That's a different approach, I might have to try it. On 5/4/2026 at 9:39 PM, Treamayne said: Regardless, it's not about what has been memorized (I also have not memorized everything) it's about practicing Search techniques to find the sources when you need them (which is why I made the primer on Searching Coppermind and Arcanum in the Sharder FAQ). I'm also lucky enough to have all of the ebooks in Calibre, which makes searching text much easier as well (RegEx searches). The rest comes from repetition and practice - knowing there are one or more WoBs to answer a question and what keywords to use to find them efficiently. If you start responding to questions now, you'll quickly notice how often the same questions re-appear and know how to find those references quickly. ^Honestly that's the real best answer On 5/5/2026 at 8:44 AM, alder24 said: You're spoiling me. I'm just reading WoBs out of boredom and that's why I do remember the most important ones, the rest is as you said, being able to use Arcanum's search engine properly with the aid of the Coppermind articles. You deserve it, you're one of the best out of those of us active on the forms. You, me, Treamayne, therunner, NameIess. Wait, we can be the five scholars! Edited May 8 by Frustration 2
Qianweilian He/him Posted May 8 Posted May 8 2 hours ago, Frustration said: You deserve it, you're one of the best out of those of us active on the forms. You, me, Treamayne, therunner, NameIess. Wait, we can be the five scholars! That's not arrogant... (But you're not wrong) 1
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now