Rhythm of War is bad. Like, really, really bad.

[Kansas Stormcursed he/him]

On 8/19/2025 at 7:59 PM, al_lan_mandragoran said:

Reminds me of this post

Dear God

On 8/19/2025 at 8:12 PM, ChipsAHoid said:

Dude you brought up all the points I was gonna lol. Storm not being able to type as fast on Mobile.

I was gonna say

 “At least he had a good opinion of Sanderson. Although I didn’t know you could be so far into rep debt

Like how is this possible”

But you unfortunately can type faster. Well played, Spartan. Well played.

…it really is similar

They should've been all the way in Chasmfiend corpse for that stuff

[Through The Living Ash he/him]

11 hours ago, Honors ghost said:

  Hide contents

Wait There are? I’m not done w era 2 but I’ve read the first two of era two and they didn’t rly have kelsier and other than that the only other ones are book one of era one and seceret history right?

 

Have you read Rhythm of War? 

[Honors Spectral Image She/her]

32 minutes ago, Ashkaloda said:

Have you read Rhythm of War? 

Yah ive read all of stormlight

[Through The Living Ash he/him]

Just now, Honors ghost said:

Yah ive read all of stormlight

Spoilers for wider cosmere for others

Spoiler

Thaidakar, the leader of the Ghostbloods, is Kelsier

 

[Treamayne]

11 hours ago, Hoid Slayer said:

For it being his final entry, I would've like a lot more into his inner motivations - I guess that deep dive was saved for Taravangian.

And Dragonsteel - there is a lot of ShardVessel baggage being held in reserve for that trilogy. 

 

On 8/21/2025 at 4:11 AM, Nitpicking said:

SPOILERS for Tress of the Emerald Sea

  Hide contents

We also see that sprouters use implements made of allomantically-active metals in comparable ways, e. g. iron shields attract spores and steel trowels repel them.

@Jult @ChipsAHoid @Honors ghost

More specifically, first show - Tress Ch 26:

Spoiler

She took the tool that resembled a shield and pressed it to the roseite. The crystals responded immediately, pulling toward the metal, which (from the slate grey color) seemed to be simple iron. The other tool, the trowel, made the crystals grow away from it. It was of polished silvery metal. (Steel, for those who compulsively track these things.)

Right, so each tool influenced the growth of the spores. That made sense. Perhaps—

A low, rumbling noise came from outside the hull. 

Hope that helps

[Honors Spectral Image She/her]

44 minutes ago, Ashkaloda said:

Spoilers for wider cosmere for others

  Hide contents

Thaidakar, the leader of the Ghostbloods, is Kelsier

 

Spoiler

WHAT ACTUALLY! I’m gonna go do a read through of stormlight now

 

Edited August 22, 2025 by Honors ghost

[Through The Living Ash he/him]

2 minutes ago, Honors ghost said:

  Hide contents

WHAT ACTUALLY! I’m gonna go do a read through of stormlight now

 

Spoiler

Glad I could help. 

They never actually call him by name, but there's that one moment in RoW where they first refer to him as the Lord of Scars and everything just clicks. And then it's fairly obvious after that. 

 

[SpartanBrigade He/Him]

20 minutes ago, Honors ghost said:

  Reveal hidden contents

WHAT ACTUALLY! I’m gonna go do a read through of stormlight now

 

Have you read Mistborn Era 2 and WaT?

[Honors Spectral Image She/her]

1 hour ago, SpartanBrigade said:

Have you read Mistborn Era 2 and WaT?

I’m halfway through era two and j read WaT 

1 hour ago, Ashkaloda said:

  Hide contents

Glad I could help. 

They never actually call him by name, but there's that one moment in RoW where they first refer to him as the Lord of Scars and everything just clicks. And then it's fairly obvious after that. 

 

OMG YESSS I REMEBER THAT PART NOW OMG THAT MAKES SENSE

[Jult]

2 hours ago, Treamayne said:

And Dragonsteel - there is a lot of ShardVessel baggage being held in reserve for that trilogy. 

 

@Jult @ChipsAHoid @Honors ghost

More specifically, first show - Tress Ch 26:

  Hide contents

She took the tool that resembled a shield and pressed it to the roseite. The crystals responded immediately, pulling toward the metal, which (from the slate grey color) seemed to be simple iron. The other tool, the trowel, made the crystals grow away from it. It was of polished silvery metal. (Steel, for those who compulsively track these things.)

Right, so each tool influenced the growth of the spores. That made sense. Perhaps—

A low, rumbling noise came from outside the hull. 

Hope that helps

I love that he called out readers who "compulsively track these things" and I still failed to track it.

[bmcclure7]

15 hours ago, Honors ghost said:

No I will not acknowledge that book I hated it. Buutttttt unlike @The-Rizzler I will not let one book Brandon wrote that I pretty severely disliked ruin my view of him or that series

Curiously, why didn’t you like about secret histories?

[Honors Spectral Image She/her]

9 minutes ago, bmcclure7 said:

Curiously, why didn’t you like about secret histories?

Spoiered for spoilers to seceret history

Spoiler

Idk it just felt kinda pointless like it was interesting to know that kelsier survived but it felt like it didn’t add anything rly to the actual plot of the series? Idk I just didn’t love it

 

[SpartanBrigade He/Him]

1 hour ago, Honors ghost said:

I’m halfway through era two and j read WaT 

OMG YESSS I REMEBER THAT PART NOW OMG THAT MAKES SENSE

There's a quick part in WaT where

Spoiler

One of the Ghostbloods says "I report to Lord Kelsier"

 

[Hoid Slayer He/Him]

2 hours ago, Honors ghost said:

Spoiered for spoilers to seceret history

  Hide contents

Idk it just felt kinda pointless like it was interesting to know that kelsier survived but it felt like it didn’t add anything rly to the actual plot of the series? Idk I just didn’t love it

 

Spoiler

That's the point 

Kelsier surviving is going to be HIGHLY plot relevant for the future of the Cosmere

Personally, I loved Secret History - even if there were some sections where it dragged.

5 hours ago, Treamayne said:

And Dragonsteel - there is a lot of ShardVessel baggage being held in reserve for that trilogy. 

Spoiler

Ahh...

Yeah, that makes sense

But still, I feel like we never really connected with Rayse

Similarly, I would've loved some Ruin POVs in Mistborn

 

[Treamayne]

17 hours ago, Hoid Slayer said:

But still, I feel like we never really connected with Rayse

Similarly, I would've loved some Ruin POVs in Mistborn

I'm sure many of us do. However, look at it from Brandon's perspective. There are things he cannot show from a Shard's PoV (especially in something like Mistborn E1 - which many/most people begin the Cosmere with) without either "lying" to fans by witholding information (something he laments doing with Kelsier in the Annotations to Warbreaker) or spoiling decades worth of books just to satisify a "gee-whiz" in an early book. 

Flashbacks (flash forwards if it from a prequel series?) are where we will get these golden nuggets - and we'll be far better equipped to grok the info reveals when we do get them.

Anticipation is difficult - but is often the better course (in the long run). 

Edited August 23, 2025 by Treamayne
SPAG

[Honors Spectral Image She/her]

1 hour ago, Hoid Slayer said:

  Hide contents

That's the point 

Kelsier surviving is going to be HIGHLY plot relevant for the future of the Cosmere

Personally, I loved Secret History - even if there were some sections where it dragged.

  Hide contents

Ahh...

Yeah, that makes sense

But still, I feel like we never really connected with Rayse

Similarly, I would've loved some Ruin POVs in Mistborn.

 

I get that I think it’s a fine book didn’t love it but I understand its importance to the rest of the cosmere.

 

2 hours ago, SpartanBrigade said:

There's a quick part in WaT where

  Hide contents

One of the Ghostbloods says "I report to Lord Kelsier"

 

heh yah I’m def gonna start a re read of stormlight once I get home

[ChipsAHoid He/Him]

6 hours ago, Treamayne said:

And Dragonsteel - there is a lot of ShardVessel baggage being held in reserve for that trilogy. 

 

@Jult @ChipsAHoid @Honors ghost

More specifically, first show - Tress Ch 26:

  Reveal hidden contents

She took the tool that resembled a shield and pressed it to the roseite. The crystals responded immediately, pulling toward the metal, which (from the slate grey color) seemed to be simple iron. The other tool, the trowel, made the crystals grow away from it. It was of polished silvery metal. (Steel, for those who compulsively track these things.)

Right, so each tool influenced the growth of the spores. That made sense. Perhaps—

A low, rumbling noise came from outside the hull. 

Hope that helps

Storm it I’m out of rep

I hadn’t noticed that, thanks!

[CoderDrag0n8 He/They]

5 hours ago, Honors ghost said:

I’m halfway through era two and j read WaT 

OMG YESSS I REMEBER THAT PART NOW OMG THAT MAKES SENSE

Well Era 2 Book 4 spoilers:

Spoiler

shows Kelsier as leader of ghostbloods

 

[bmcclure7]

On 8/22/2025 at 12:21 PM, Honors ghost said:

Spoiered for spoilers to seceret history

  Hide contents

Idk it just felt kinda pointless like it was interesting to know that kelsier survived but it felt like it didn’t add anything rly to the actual plot of the series? Idk I just didn’t love it

 

I feel like it was not so much about the series as it was introducing people reading the series to the wider cosmere. Away for Mistborn only readers to find out what this cosmere is all about

[Honors Spectral Image She/her]

8 hours ago, bmcclure7 said:

I feel like it was not so much about the series as it was introducing people reading the series to the wider cosmere. Away for Mistborn only readers to find out what this cosmere is all about

Yah that def checks out I already knew about the cosmere when I read it tho part bc Kansas told me and part bc I’d already read stormlight elantris and warbreaker

[bmcclure7]

2 hours ago, Honors ghost said:

Yah that def checks out I already knew about the cosmere when I read it tho part bc Kansas told me and part bc I’d already read stormlight elantris and warbreaker

Where are you in Mistborn?

[Honors Spectral Image She/her]

53 minutes ago, bmcclure7 said:

Where are you in Mistborn?

Just finished shadows of self don’t have the third one yet tho

[TacoBellChoutaMeal]

I mostly agree with OP but I think he’s getting dunked on for how he expresses his disappointment. 
 

I think ROW is the weakest in the set because its own ending (as well as the existence of WaT) retroactively makes the book feel like a filler arc. don’t get me wrong, all of the Kaladin stuff is so good in this one. I love Navani, but I don’t like when Sanderson takes paragraphs and paragraphs to explain fabrial mechanics. When he takes pages and pages to explain allomancy or the magic of any given world, I love it; engineering, not so much.
Shallan’s plot feels completely redundant—Adolin does all of the cool stuff in her own plot. I know that these books are about the “journey before the destination,” but a really bloated Shallan plot where she’s not memorably active ending with “by the way, Dalinar says we have ten days to get our act together, and that’s not enough time for any of the honorspren to make any more radiants” sucks, dude. That totally sucks. Formless is a problem created for Shallan exclusively for this book. Not to be a Shallan hater, but the character felt like a completely different person after WoR, and that Sanderson decided to give her DID just to give her something to do. I loved her in those first two books. But when Kaladin goes back on his oath in WoR he gets punished for it. Shallan goes back on her truth in Oathbringer, and nothing bad happens. She gets two new sidekicks in her head seemingly randomly. And I think this is along the lines of what OP was trying to express.  Sanderson has gone on record in multiple lectures that he thinks it’s okay for a character to backslide, as long as it counts as progress. I think a large amount of the general audience disagree with this—I can guarantee that OP does. I respect Sanderson for trying to shake things up with ROW but I don’t think he did so in the correct way. Both Shallan and Kaladin backslide in this book almost randomly—Kaladin is forced into this position from the start of the book after the time jump, and this is unfair—probably so they’d have something to do. But Kaladin seems to be the only guy doing anything, and Shallan is more along for the ride in her own adventure. This makes Kaladin’s plot more enjoyable, and Shallan gets completely outshined by her husband. 
I want to like Venli but I don’t. Eshonai, on the other hand, is a fantastic character, and her half of the POVs saved the flashback sequences for me. The Stormlight archive is about redemption, and I love that about the series. But for Brandon to continue to vilify Moash, whose moral compass is skewed but understandably, and then try to promote Venli, who did arguably the worst thing in Rosharan history since the abandoning of the oathpact, completely throws me. If this is the goal, then great, but I feel as though it happened too fast.  Her reasons for what she did are understandable as well, she was just a stupid teenager jealous of her sister. But there’s a dissonance between trying to turn the girl who started a cataclysmic war into a hero because she was stupid and turning some guy whose parental figures were starved to death into a Saturday morning villain because he took out the trash—even if that trash itself was in the process of redemption. 
 

OP is being a little dramatic but I kinda understand where he’s coming from. 

[Knuti]

First I am quite ok, that You try to defend the OP, but sorry, the original post is ragebait and combined with the subsequent posts in all available threads, that the OP found, the whole endeavor should justly be called trolling.

Your post though is quite well thought out and I agree with Your main point. For me too RoW is the weakest book so far. But disagree with the details You give and I may have some other reasons to dislike.

First of all the Contest of Champions. It does not decide the fate of the world, it is instead of the fate of Alethkar and the Blackthorn. I am sorry, I have no emotional attachment to Alethkar. And given that the Parsh are people, they have a right to land and at this moment they have Alethkar. So the whole thing was not even just. This point thoroughly reduced the story from epic to just another fantasy adventure. These days, after WaT, I would say, it was a deliberate deconstruction.

I certainly liked Navani as researcher, but I did not let the physics of the tones of Roshar enter into my head. Raboniel though was gorgeous and the conflict of the two women was one of the highlights of the book.

That said, the four access nodes of the Sibling was a video game quest of the worst level. And Navani coaxing them out from the Sibling was stupidity as a plot device.

On to Shallan. Of all fantasy characters I love Shallan most. But I have to agree, she is pretty useless in this book. Worse, she actively works to undermine Adolin. Had she gone through with her mad assassination attempt, she would have made a definitive statement about the honor of men (and women). And to the day I do not know how I feel about the message, that mental illness can be cured with just enough love. I cannot discount it, but I do not believe it either. Nevertheless Adolin deserves praise for his overflowing empathy.

But I do think, that You read her wrong. Her DID was no whimsical quirk of the author. To understand things You have to revisit Ch. 88 of WoR. She was not ready for the truth of her mother’s death, it was forced upon her by Pattern. To her it was the ultimate retraumatization. And so, unable to accept the truth and equally unable to repress it any longer, she instead developed sideways. For years I did not even believe it was a Truth at all, because she did not work it out herself, then WaT convinced me otherwise. But she did not acquire plate before accepting it. So that in itself is no reason, that her bond was threatened. There is one scene in the Kholinar section of OB (I do not know where any longer), where she frays her bond, but that is for lying to Pattern. She tells him, that her DID is great and that everything is fine with her. After her subsequent breakdown, when she accepts, that she has difficulties, her bond is on the safe side again.

Formless is all about morality. (she wished she knew, if she had any). Formless is not a persona (just as she herself rightly states), I interpret Formless as a reintegration concept. But one where she goes over to the Dark Side. I would even interpret Formless as a sign, that her dissociation days were coming to an end, either way. But it is of course a clear indicator of her mental state, that Shallan uses a pseudo-persona in her inner dialog with Radiant and Veil.

So, let’s finish with Venli. I like her since OB, I like her relationship with Timbre very much, and I like, that she does not get it easy (Two rejected oaths are a clear sign). You instead state,

Venli, who did arguably the worst thing in Rosharan history since the abandoning of the oathpact

I am sorry, thousands of former parshmen would like to disagree. And in my opinion, the worst in Rosharan history, was the betrayal of BAM and the following Recreance. I will not contest though, that the creation of the Everstorm was a black deed. But she is not the sole responsible. It was Odium and Ulim who instigated it, Eshonai had a share and we should not for forget the War of Reckoning, that developed genocidal traits and backed the Parshendi into a corner. And she certainly did not start the war. That were Rayse and Tanavast, millenia ago, as we now know.

[Honors Spectral Image She/her]

3 hours ago, Knuti said:

First I am quite ok, that You try to defend the OP, but sorry, the original post is ragebait and combined with the subsequent posts in all available threads, that the OP found, the whole endeavor should justly be called trolling.

Your post though is quite well thought out and I agree with Your main point. For me too RoW is the weakest book so far. But disagree with the details You give and I may have some other reasons to dislike.

First of all the Contest of Champions. It does not decide the fate of the world, it is instead of the fate of Alethkar and the Blackthorn. I am sorry, I have no emotional attachment to Alethkar. And given that the Parsh are people, they have a right to land and at this moment they have Alethkar. So the whole thing was not even just. This point thoroughly reduced the story from epic to just another fantasy adventure. These days, after WaT, I would say, it was a deliberate deconstruction.

I certainly liked Navani as researcher, but I did not let the physics of the tones of Roshar enter into my head. Raboniel though was gorgeous and the conflict of the two women was one of the highlights of the book.

That said, the four access nodes of the Sibling was a video game quest of the worst level. And Navani coaxing them out from the Sibling was stupidity as a plot device.

On to Shallan. Of all fantasy characters I love Shallan most. But I have to agree, she is pretty useless in this book. Worse, she actively works to undermine Adolin. Had she gone through with her mad assassination attempt, she would have made a definitive statement about the honor of men (and women). And to the day I do not know how I feel about the message, that mental illness can be cured with just enough love. I cannot discount it, but I do not believe it either. Nevertheless Adolin deserves praise for his overflowing empathy.

But I do think, that You read her wrong. Her DID was no whimsical quirk of the author. To understand things You have to revisit Ch. 88 of WoR. She was not ready for the truth of her mother’s death, it was forced upon her by Pattern. To her it was the ultimate retraumatization. And so, unable to accept the truth and equally unable to repress it any longer, she instead developed sideways. For years I did not even believe it was a Truth at all, because she did not work it out herself, then WaT convinced me otherwise. But she did not acquire plate before accepting it. So that in itself is no reason, that her bond was threatened. There is one scene in the Kholinar section of OB (I do not know where any longer), where she frays her bond, but that is for lying to Pattern. She tells him, that her DID is great and that everything is fine with her. After her subsequent breakdown, when she accepts, that she has difficulties, her bond is on the safe side again.

Formless is all about morality. (she wished she knew, if she had any). Formless is not a persona (just as she herself rightly states), I interpret Formless as a reintegration concept. But one where she goes over to the Dark Side. I would even interpret Formless as a sign, that her dissociation days were coming to an end, either way. But it is of course a clear indicator of her mental state, that Shallan uses a pseudo-persona in her inner dialog with Radiant and Veil.

So, let’s finish with Venli. I like her since OB, I like her relationship with Timbre very much, and I like, that she does not get it easy (Two rejected oaths are a clear sign). You instead state,

Venli, who did arguably the worst thing in Rosharan history since the abandoning of the oathpact

I am sorry, thousands of former parshmen would like to disagree. And in my opinion, the worst in Rosharan history, was the betrayal of BAM and the following Recreance. I will not contest though, that the creation of the Everstorm was a black deed. But she is not the sole responsible. It was Odium and Ulim who instigated it, Eshonai had a share and we should not for forget the War of Reckoning, that developed genocidal traits and backed the Parshendi into a corner. And she certainly did not start the war. That were Rayse and Tanavast, millenia ago, as we now know.

I agree with this

 

22 hours ago, TacoBellChoutaMeal said:

I mostly agree with OP but I think he’s getting dunked on for how he expresses his disappointment. 
 

I think ROW is the weakest in the set because its own ending (as well as the existence of WaT) retroactively makes the book feel like a filler arc. don’t get me wrong, all of the Kaladin stuff is so good in this one. I love Navani, but I don’t like when Sanderson takes paragraphs and paragraphs to explain fabrial mechanics. When he takes pages and pages to explain allomancy or the magic of any given world, I love it; engineering, not so much.
Shallan’s plot feels completely redundant—Adolin does all of the cool stuff in her own plot. I know that these books are about the “journey before the destination,” but a really bloated Shallan plot where she’s not memorably active ending with “by the way, Dalinar says we have ten days to get our act together, and that’s not enough time for any of the honorspren to make any more radiants” sucks, dude. That totally sucks. Formless is a problem created for Shallan exclusively for this book. Not to be a Shallan hater, but the character felt like a completely different person after WoR, and that Sanderson decided to give her DID just to give her something to do. I loved her in those first two books. But when Kaladin goes back on his oath in WoR he gets punished for it. Shallan goes back on her truth in Oathbringer, and nothing bad happens. She gets two new sidekicks in her head seemingly randomly. And I think this is along the lines of what OP was trying to express.  Sanderson has gone on record in multiple lectures that he thinks it’s okay for a character to backslide, as long as it counts as progress. I think a large amount of the general audience disagree with this—I can guarantee that OP does. I respect Sanderson for trying to shake things up with ROW but I don’t think he did so in the correct way. Both Shallan and Kaladin backslide in this book almost randomly—Kaladin is forced into this position from the start of the book after the time jump, and this is unfair—probably so they’d have something to do. But Kaladin seems to be the only guy doing anything, and Shallan is more along for the ride in her own adventure. This makes Kaladin’s plot more enjoyable, and Shallan gets completely outshined by her husband. 
I want to like Venli but I don’t. Eshonai, on the other hand, is a fantastic character, and her half of the POVs saved the flashback sequences for me. The Stormlight archive is about redemption, and I love that about the series. But for Brandon to continue to vilify Moash, whose moral compass is skewed but understandably, and then try to promote Venli, who did arguably the worst thing in Rosharan history since the abandoning of the oathpact, completely throws me. If this is the goal, then great, but I feel as though it happened too fast.  Her reasons for what she did are understandable as well, she was just a stupid teenager jealous of her sister. But there’s a dissonance between trying to turn the girl who started a cataclysmic war into a hero because she was stupid and turning some guy whose parental figures were starved to death into a Saturday morning villain because he took out the trash—even if that trash itself was in the process of redemption. 
 

OP is being a little dramatic but I kinda understand where he’s coming from. 

i support what you said RoW is not my fave either but the difference between you and OP is OP joined this thread specifically to ragebait