Knuti

Well, i'm a great fan of Shallan, but the idea that she is intelligent and introspective at that point in the story is sweet. But then again she certainly does not want to posess people. She already owns some slaves, that she has conveniently forgotten.

It is definitely worth mentioning. But as always in Stormlight this information cannot be trustetb that it means what it seems to tell. Was she confined for the beginning mental illness, or was she confined for quite harmless reasons and her mental difficultities set in because of that absolute breach of trust by her parents? Gavilar would have imprisoned her just for disobeying and Navani has a bad conscience to the day around her.

Very interresting discussion, but am I the only one who thinks that the discussed scenes are examples of paranoia severe enough to be interpreted as mental illness? That would make her a monster in other settings. Here it means she is a worthy member of our cast.

I think You are quite right, her bond is fraying. But IMO the cause is neither, that she does not accept the killing of her mother, nor her dissociation, it is that she is pretending that everything is ok with her. That is the one time, that her repressions and her glass-half-full mentality gets her in difficulties with Pattern. After her breakdown in the market and realization that she has huge problems the bond slides to the safe side again.

Stormlight Archive is not wysiwyg, Stormlight Archive is quicksand. The most common pitfall is its radical POV-orientation. The beliefs of the POVs are presented as undisputable truth (in their heads). And non-sapient spren are living ideas. So Kaladin perceived Sylphrena as such at the beginning. Later in WOR in the conflict about Elhokar Sylphrena acted as a person and was treated as a person. But that was shown, not told. So, as it is I like it better. It gives spren agenda instead of functionallity. As should be for intelligent beings.

I think the issue is trickier. At the end of OB Adolin was the only feasible solution for her (and he saw her). But both Shallan and Kaladin have grown and overcome their crisis. So now at the end of W&T Shalladin would be a great couple. Gives me the slight inkling that things are not finished.

First I am quite ok, that You try to defend the OP, but sorry, the original post is ragebait and combined with the subsequent posts in all available threads, that the OP found, the whole endeavor should justly be called trolling. Your post though is quite well thought out and I agree with Your main point. For me too RoW is the weakest book so far. But disagree with the details You give and I may have some other reasons to dislike. First of all the Contest of Champions. It does not decide the fate of the world, it is instead of the fate of Alethkar and the Blackthorn. I am sorry, I have no emotional attachment to Alethkar. And given that the Parsh are people, they have a right to land and at this moment they have Alethkar. So the whole thing was not even just. This point thoroughly reduced the story from epic to just another fantasy adventure. These days, after WaT, I would say, it was a deliberate deconstruction. I certainly liked Navani as researcher, but I did not let the physics of the tones of Roshar enter into my head. Raboniel though was gorgeous and the conflict of the two women was one of the highlights of the book. That said, the four access nodes of the Sibling was a video game quest of the worst level. And Navani coaxing them out from the Sibling was stupidity as a plot device. On to Shallan. Of all fantasy characters I love Shallan most. But I have to agree, she is pretty useless in this book. Worse, she actively works to undermine Adolin. Had she gone through with her mad assassination attempt, she would have made a definitive statement about the honor of men (and women). And to the day I do not know how I feel about the message, that mental illness can be cured with just enough love. I cannot discount it, but I do not believe it either. Nevertheless Adolin deserves praise for his overflowing empathy. But I do think, that You read her wrong. Her DID was no whimsical quirk of the author. To understand things You have to revisit Ch. 88 of WoR. She was not ready for the truth of her mother’s death, it was forced upon her by Pattern. To her it was the ultimate retraumatization. And so, unable to accept the truth and equally unable to repress it any longer, she instead developed sideways. For years I did not even believe it was a Truth at all, because she did not work it out herself, then WaT convinced me otherwise. But she did not acquire plate before accepting it. So that in itself is no reason, that her bond was threatened. There is one scene in the Kholinar section of OB (I do not know where any longer), where she frays her bond, but that is for lying to Pattern. She tells him, that her DID is great and that everything is fine with her. After her subsequent breakdown, when she accepts, that she has difficulties, her bond is on the safe side again. Formless is all about morality. (she wished she knew, if she had any). Formless is not a persona (just as she herself rightly states), I interpret Formless as a reintegration concept. But one where she goes over to the Dark Side. I would even interpret Formless as a sign, that her dissociation days were coming to an end, either way. But it is of course a clear indicator of her mental state, that Shallan uses a pseudo-persona in her inner dialog with Radiant and Veil. So, let’s finish with Venli. I like her since OB, I like her relationship with Timbre very much, and I like, that she does not get it easy (Two rejected oaths are a clear sign). You instead state, Venli, who did arguably the worst thing in Rosharan history since the abandoning of the oathpact I am sorry, thousands of former parshmen would like to disagree. And in my opinion, the worst in Rosharan history, was the betrayal of BAM and the following Recreance. I will not contest though, that the creation of the Everstorm was a black deed. But she is not the sole responsible. It was Odium and Ulim who instigated it, Eshonai had a share and we should not for forget the War of Reckoning, that developed genocidal traits and backed the Parshendi into a corner. And she certainly did not start the war. That were Rayse and Tanavast, millenia ago, as we now know.

An anyway, that does not solve Kelsier's problems.

I thoroughly enjoyed it, but the more I think about it - the book (and that means its story) does not really stand on its own. Starling and Dusk are two great charakters, hilariously apart in their approach to life, but they do not really confront each other. They meet, get to know each other a bit more by working together, win and the story ends. There are tons of possibilities for further conflict, after Dusk goes on board, but not in this installation. Likewise we get a teaser of Starling's past in the Prologue, but defining issues like the manacles are left in the dark. So the story is like a prequel to another story yet to be written with Starlings defining past as flashbacks. I enjoyed it for the lore and the enjoyable charakters. But I would not accept it from an author unknown to me and I would never recommend it to someone not deep into the Cosmere. Those deep into tend to find it on own.

Well, certainly an interesting theory. But there is a reason for the Renarin/Rlain romance, they mean to make peace between Humans and Singers. And in my opinion, this is a necessity in the face of Retribution. Furthermore we should not forget, that the war aims of the Humans are quite unjust, if we remember the Eila Stele and the False Desolation. So nothing of that will come to pass. Instead there will be book concentrated on Renarin (and Rlain?). And I think its content will be a peace between Humans and Singers (or certain factions of them) and the difficulties obtaining it. And then there will be further war. Between new sorted out factions.

I have a question concerning quoting from other sites. For example Brandon Sanderson made some very interesting remarks on reddit about Wind and Truth. Can I quote directly or must I use links? Are there prior experiences?

Well, I do not contest that. But if that is the case, why should Gavinor be dubbed traitor and slain? I do not see the morality there. And does the obligation Dalinar has to his people outweigh his obligation to his sibling?

I think You are wrong. It is the same Hoid, that negotiated the contents of the contest agreement that sloppily and whose secret goal was destroying Roshar along with Rayse and Odium. In other novels he is the narrator and thus the voice of Brandon Sanderson, here is is just a player whose POV should be under suspicion like that of anybody else, even more so for his established carelessness. No, the statement only shows us, that there is hope and that five more books will be written. Something we know anyway. But I think, the problem runs deeper. The core trope of heroic fantasy is the glorious victory of good vs evil. So far Sanderson delivered every book, in this book the central character defaulted for moral reasons. And we cannot even say, that the choice was morally better, it was only the least unacceptabel moral choice for the character. I am personally quite ok with it, but I do not know, if my 30 years younger self would have been too. Those yearning for the contest must have experienced it like being shown the middle finger. Especially if they identified with Dalinar who was until the end part Blackthorn. No I do not think, there is any sweetening possible.

I am sorry, I have to disagree. This is but a runner-up contest. Nightblood is champion in this category. SLAY EVIL !!! is the ultimate answer to problems of morality and the greater good.

Let us not forget Shallan. Maybe she visits her mother in the SR and encounters Kaladin.

Ok, that is something I understand. Let us compare Shallan. I am rather in it for her and she is a new woman now too. But I loved her for it, she is showing the competence that was always potentioally there. At the end of ROW it showed already, but I did not believe it. But that is all made possible, because Testament is a tangible personal obligation. Confronting her mother's death offered only loss and shame, helping Testament is a managable task and daunting never impressed her. Kaladin though - his inner monologue is cringe, a actor playing therapist that does not know what he is doing, his therapeutical dialogue is cringy too. It is in-character though. When he does something, he does it with everything he is and has. He only had success with Seth, because Ishar helped enormously with his stupid monastery quest and the gall of killing his family and sending them as undead against him. For the record: I do not think Seth is healed, Kaladin only helped him make decisions that put him out of harm's way. No You are right. If I were in it for Kaladin, I would feel shortchanged.

Well, I think I understand You better now. But is what You want really realistic? Is that what people do and are able to do after such experiences? Is it not far more realistic, that he works through his experiences with more distance in their SR-bubble? If I keep misunderstanding You, what is it specifically, that he should address? Ok, we do not see him addressing it, but at the moment he wants to repress his ordeal. And repressing has its place in mental health too, at least if You are not called Shallan.

Sorry, but You are reading Kaladin wrong. His depression is not cured, not even affected. But after Tien's death he additionaly developed a neurotic compulsion to protect everyone possible regardless of anything else. The vision prior to his fourth oath meant, that he let go of Tien thus overcoming his neurosis (if I named this thing correct, I am no therapist either) and swear the fourth oath. So he is now able to enjoy life (tentatively) as seen in a certain beautiful scene.

I do not think that that will be a problem. Fabrials work just fine with Towerlight, so they should work with Warlight too. So everybody has to pray at midnight to Retribution. Only Azir will be cast off. That means they have to trade. They have no rain either, but if I am reading the map correctly, there shóuld be lots of new rivers running through Azir. So they have to invent irrigation very fast and plants should grow much better outside the gloom. Meaning they will have to trade plant products for charged gems.

I would say there is a slight difference. In my understanding promises are private, oaths are a formal promise delivered to the public or an institution. Even if the public consists only of a spren and the representive of a shard.

Sorry, I have to disagree here. Technically You are right, he was that. Until his 4th oath he had a neurotic compulsion to protect everyone, turning himself into a workaholic, so no romantic vibes. But the Kaladin of now could be quite different. What especially intrigues me, is that he is editing his past concerning the infamous nonromantic arc, seeing himself in a far more active role than he actually had. (But I could not find the quote.) That would mean, it is far from over for him. And from all that follows for me, that he is interested in romantic relationships, but unable to admit it to himself.

Sorry, I have to disagree Is that so? It begins with the prologue: Heralds abandoning the Oathpact. Their punishment is being revered by the Vorin Church as saints as we learn soon afterwards. Then we encounter 3 radiants in the first two books, Shallan and Kaladin. While Kaladin indeed has to live by a rigid honorbound interpretation of his oaths, does the same apply to Shallan too? And let us remind ourselves, honor is a concept totally alien to her. In OB we encounter Malata who certainly lives by her oaths, but by a very different interpretation to that of Kaladin and Sylphrena. Well considering promises I think it may be the right approach for Adolin and the book tries to show that. Does that mean, it applies for everyone? Sanderson, Brandon. Wind and Truth: The brand new epic Stormlight Archive novel from the international bestseller (English Edition) (S.1300). Orion. Kindle-Version. Well we all know what became of that promise. Let us discuss Fen. I think it can be equally said, that Jasnah betrayed Fen by admitting she would stab her under certain circumstances. But that is not the point. Fen is a politician, Taravangian is a politician and Jasnah is a scholar playing at politics. And made the error to concede that the rules of politics aka the best for Your country apply to this discussion. Well, a magic order of that kind should have to do something with justice. Hunting and murdering budding radiants has nothing to do with that. If the oaths do not prevent that, there is something seriously wrong with them regardless of manipulated laws. By the way many Nazi perpetrators after the war defended themselves stating, they were just following the law. Either the skybreakers or our current cast of radiants is right. No, the book outrights states that honor not tempered by other traits is evil and leads to vileness: Sanderson, Brandon. Wind and Truth: The brand new epic Stormlight Archive novel from the international bestseller (English Edition) (S.1268-1269). Orion. Kindle-Version. Well, Your mileage certainly varies, but why? But that is not the point. He did it in the most dishonorable way possible by betraying a promise of safe conduct. After that the shard of Honor booted him. Anyway You have certainly a different opinion and I do not contest Your right to it. What I contest is the opinion, that the things, You do not like were suddenly introduced with WaT. They were there from the beginnings. They were only less visible, cracks in a honorable façade, possible to overlook, if You did not want to see them

I think, this is not brought up by her, because she herself does not understand it. And let us not forget, it was an extreme situation followed by other extreme situations. I think her repressing days are largely over now after reintegration of Veil. But it could be argued that having personas gave her the hint to simply try. I thing generally there are two sources of her unique extra capabllieties: the double bound as Kelek stated and the fact that she is the daughter of a cognitive shadow, something Kelek did not know. And it stands to reason, that the demise of Tanavast is another factor making things possible, because there is no longer any shardic oversight concerning forbidden powers. These things were discussed already after the the publishing of the preview chapter. Two things I remember: She should be able to retrieve Breaths of other persons once she learns the mechanics of Breaths and she has to know the person whose identity she adopts. Btw her personas could come handy in coming situations. For example consider travelling the Retribution lands. She could pray each midnight for warlight, but Intention counts, it is not so easy as it sounds. A persona convinced to be a Retribution disciple shoud do the trick though.

I think quickly is relative. It is 6 years in between and we do not know how much time of that under torture.

So when Chana broke, she returned voluntarily to Roshar. Taln was evicted at the same moment, an event, that was recorded in WoK by Hoid. The Fused were freed too, but only returned after the Parshendi created the Everstorm.