Vasher-Gavilar Theory

[EdgedancerJacob he/him]

In the prologue to Wind and Truth, we discovered that Vasher was working with Gavilar to create Anti-Light.

My theory is a simple one: Vasher's goal here was to find a way to destroy Nightblood. Whether that would work or not is up for debate, but I could see Vasher's logic if that were the case. I also think this could have contributed to Vasher, Vivenna, and Nightblood splitting up. 

Does this pass the 17th Shard sniff test??

[KaladinsSenseOfHumourSpren He/Him]

This is a... really good theory. Vivenna is looking for Nightblood though. Maybe Vasher intentionally hid it from her?

I don't understant why Vasher didn't just keep Nightblood however. If only he kept it, then surely nothing could go wrong. Unless Vasher doesn't trust himself to use Nightblood wisely.

[Treamayne]

25 minutes ago, EdgedancerJacob said:

we discovered that Vasher was working with Gavilar to create Anti-Light.

Minor correction - Vasher wasn't working with Gavilar to make anti-light; he was working for Gavilar and very well may have already known at least one method to produce anti-light. All the text tells us for certain is that the Anti-light that Gavilar obtained came from Vasher, and that Gavilar beleived Vasher was making it - it does not clarify that Vasher did in fact make it, or how he acquired it if he did not make it. 

WaT Prologue:

Spoiler

He had found a way to ferry Voidspren through Shadesmar to this world using gemstones and aluminum boxes. Who would have thought Navani’s pet area of study would be so useful? And if that conniving Axindweth eluded his grasp, he’d have to do the next part without her. He had his scholar, though in truth Gavilar was baffled by the Light he was creating … Light that could somehow kill the Voidbringers? How had Vasher made—

He thought he heard a faint crackling sound from the Stormfather. 

 

6 minutes ago, KaladinsSenseOfHumorSpren said:

I don't understant why Vasher didn't just keep Nightblood however.

We do not know that it was Vasher's choice to be separated from Nightblood - only that after they were separated, he did not pursue recovering Nightblood. Presumably if/when we ever get the sequel to Warbreaker, we'll get this answer.  

Edited June 4, 2025 by Treamayne
SPAG

[EdgedancerJacob he/him]

7 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

All the text tells us for certain is that the Anti-light that Gavilar obtained came from Vasher, and that Gavilar beleived Vasher was making it - it does not clarify that Vasher did in fact make it, or how he acquired it if he did not make it. 

This is a good point, so thanks for calling it out. I do still think the theory works with this in mind -- knowing Vasher's personality, I can't image he loved working for someone like Gavilar, but it could make sense if Gavilar was giving him the resources needed to discover and/or create Anti-Light. 

[LewsTherinTelescope]

Mostly a shot in the dark, but I think it's related to this WoB:

Spoiler

ZenBossanova (paraphrased)

Can Vasher use Stormlight to Awaken things?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

No, all it does is keep him alive. But he has tried and has not figured out how to Awaken things.

Firefight Phoenix signing (Jan. 21, 2015)

I suspect he was looking for a way to convert Stormlight to Breath, and believed maybe if he isolated the Light + exposed it to its inverse tone the songs would cancel out to produce a hypothesized "pure" Investiture. Instead... boom.

(Well, it wouldn't explode right away, but all he'd need to do is assume it was a failure and try to store it in a long-term storage container that already had Light in it, and then boom.)

[CognitiveShadow he/him]

13 hours ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

Mostly a shot in the dark, but I think it's related to this WoB:

  Hide contents

ZenBossanova (paraphrased)

Can Vasher use Stormlight to Awaken things?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

No, all it does is keep him alive. But he has tried and has not figured out how to Awaken things.

Firefight Phoenix signing (Jan. 21, 2015)

I suspect he was looking for a way to convert Stormlight to Breath, and believed maybe if he isolated the Light + exposed it to its inverse tone the songs would cancel out to produce a hypothesized "pure" Investiture. Instead... boom.

(Well, it wouldn't explode right away, but all he'd need to do is assume it was a failure and try to store it in a long-term storage container that already had Light in it, and then boom.)

If he could get the stormlight to adopt the pure tone of endowment would he be able to use it exactly as breaths are used perhaps? Unlocking his ability to awaken? Or could that simply be the way he has been able to absorb the stormlight and fuel his weekly breath needs?

[Treamayne]

50 minutes ago, CognitiveShadow said:

If he could get the stormlight to adopt the pure tone of endowment would he be able to use it exactly as breaths are used perhaps? Unlocking his ability to awaken? Or could that simply be the way he has been able to absorb the stormlight and fuel his weekly breath needs?

I think you would have to convert Stormlight to Breath, and that is a bit more complex than just adopting tones (you can't, for example, convert Stormlight to Voidlight just by using Odium's tone - merging and inverting tones are different than changing the tone entirely). WoB:

Spoiler

Argent

Awakening and Surgebinding, Stormlight and Breath seem really similar in some aspects--

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Argent

--except Breaths seem to stick to things better--

Brandon Sanderson

They do.

Argent

--than Stormlight. So when you are holding the Breath it doesn't expire when you put it in something it doesn't go away. Can you tell me something about why that's happening?

Brandon Sanderson

Part of this is kind of inherent to the Shard and the power it's coming from. I mean the power of Endowment is just going to stick, that's part of the nature of its magic. Does that make sense? But it also kind of has to do with how the ecosystems are working. For instance the Stormlight is essential to the ecosystem of Roshar, it needs to be expended, it needs to get out and-- It's like evaporation, does that make sense?

Argent

Recycling? Not the recycling but the cycle of--

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, yeah like the cycle of water. And so just part of the way the nature of it works, it has to get out, it has to leak out, it has to run out. I mean it leaks even from spheres, right?

Argent

And when you lash things it's temporary--

Brandon Sanderson

Yep. And even though Szeth says that he thought Voidbringers could hold it they can't. Like it is just not the way that it works.

Argent

Can they just hold it better?

Brandon Sanderson

They can hold it better. It's not permanent. Now there are things that can do it permanently but--

Argent

Like the black sphere for example?

Brandon Sanderson

Well we are not going to... The black sphere is something different. You guys have guessed what the black sphere is, right?

Argent

Well we have some ideas. I support that it holds an Unmade. Am I wrong?

Brandon Sanderson

I'm not going to answer that.

Argent

But you said--

Brandon Sanderson

I'm just curious what the theories are. Book 3 the black sphere is-- Everyone who reads the books will know what the black sphere is by the end of Book 3.

Firefight Chicago signing (Feb. 20, 2015)

Part of this is that the Rosharan Lights are not fully Physical Realm Static investiture - their investiture cycle is specific about moving betweeen realms and renewing as it is consumed. Breath, on the other hand, is specifically about sticking in the Physical Realm and not being consumed when used (Regular awakening, not maintaining a Returned). It is used, then recovered to be used again.

It's why Zahel was able to crack using Stormlight to maintain his Divine Breath (like Nightblood, it needs to consume investiture and has more leeway in what can be the source that is consumed) but still has not figured out how to power Awakening with Stormlight directly. WoB:

Spoiler

ZenBossanova (paraphrased)

Can Vasher use Stormlight to Awaken things?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

No, all it does is keep him alive. But he has tried and has not figured out how to Awaken things.

Firefight Phoenix signing (Jan. 21, 2015)

Hope that helps

Edited June 5, 2025 by Treamayne
SPAG

[LewsTherinTelescope]

2 hours ago, CognitiveShadow said:

If he could get the stormlight to adopt the pure tone of endowment would he be able to use it exactly as breaths are used perhaps? Unlocking his ability to awaken? Or could that simply be the way he has been able to absorb the stormlight and fuel his weekly breath needs?

I'm unsure if it would work (we've so far only seen the process used to flip a Light to its anti so we don't know if it can change its Shard entirely, and Breath does seem to have some more structure to it), but I suspect that's what he was trying and he stumbled across anti-Light in the process.

Again mostly speculation, though.

[TacoBellChoutaMeal]

On 6/4/2025 at 10:07 PM, LewsTherinTelescope said:

 

  Hide contents

ZenBossanova (paraphrased)

Can Vasher use Stormlight to Awaken things?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

No, all it does is keep him alive. But he has tried and has not figured out how to Awaken things.

Firefight Phoenix signing (Jan. 21, 2015)

Is there a wob on how Vasher absorbs the light in the first place? I don't think he's a Radiant, but that always bugged me. Is this a similar case to Nomad in TSLM, where Nomad is so invested at this point (or, he was) that he can just absorb investiture with a touch? Vasher would actually do just fine on Canticle, now that I think about it. Shame there's no perpendicularity there. And none anyone knows about on Roshar. 

[LewsTherinTelescope]

7 minutes ago, TacoBellChoutaMeal said:

Is there a wob on how Vasher absorbs the light in the first place? I don't think he's a Radiant, but that always bugged me. Is this a similar case to Nomad in TSLM, where Nomad is so invested at this point (or, he was) that he can just absorb investiture with a touch? Vasher would actually do just fine on Canticle, now that I think about it. Shame there's no perpendicularity there. And none anyone knows about on Roshar. 

So far as I know we have no idea.

[Epicdaf]

Interesting relation between Vasher and Canticle. I would definitely like to see a book with Zelion and Vasher. 

Just to clarify, the black sphere from the prologue is the anti-voidlight sphere right?
 

[Shadman306]

What does Vasher use to awaken the hanging sheets at Urithiru?

Is it breath or is he using the less stable stormlight-based awakening?

[Treamayne]

32 minutes ago, Shadman306 said:

What does Vasher use to awaken the hanging sheets at Urithiru?

Is it breath or is he using the less stable stormlight-based awakening?

Heavily implied to be Awakening with BioChromatic Breath. RoW Ch 15:

Spoiler

Kaladin didn’t see any Stormlight coming off the ardent, and he had no reason to believe the man could Surgebind … but the way the cloth had gripped Kaladin’s arm had been uncanny.

<snip>

He tossed his scarf at Kaladin’s feet. Though it must have been a different scarf, for the one he’d started with had been bright red, and this one was dull grey.

 

[Jult]

Sorry is it stated somewhere that Vasher is converting Stormlight into Breaths?

I always imagined he was transforming Stormlight into some kind of unkeyed Investiture that his Divine Breath could consume. Not transforming it specifically into Breaths.

[KaladinsSenseOfHumourSpren He/Him]

Well, we know he's got Tenth Heightening because he isn't saying anything. Same with Vivenna. That is 50,000 Breaths each. If they aren't made from Stormlight, then they must've done a lot of work to get those Breaths.

[Treamayne]

20 hours ago, Jult said:

Sorry is it stated somewhere that Vasher is converting Stormlight into Breaths?

The opposite, he has not yet found a way to convert Stormlight into BioChromatic Breath - and - he has not found a way to power Awakening with Stormlight. 

What is implied is that he has found a way to feed Stormlight to his Divine Breath. 

13 hours ago, KaladinsSenseOfHumorSpren said:

Well, we know he's got Tenth Heightening because he isn't saying anything. Same with Vivenna. That is 50,000 Breaths each. If they aren't made from Stormlight, then they must've done a lot of work to get those Breaths.

Invalid assumption - the could be subvocalizing, we may not hear the commands because Kaladin isn't paying attention to listening for them, the Command could have been made long ago with Vasher's demonstated ability to use "upon call" command that allows him to perform actions with a tapped command trigger (like he does with his Shirt Tassels in Warbreaker). 

My point is - We never get Awakenign from Zahel's or Azure's viewpoint at all, so we do not know how it is being accomplished and 10th Heightening Mental Commands is only one possibility of many much more likely scenarios. 

 

12 hours ago, Nitpicking said:

There's a WoB somewhere where Brandon basically says that Vasher was just whispering his commands. 

WoB:

Spoiler

asmodeus

Just as a point of clarification, was Vasher physically articulating his Commands in this chapter, or is he capable of bypassing that need, for whatever reason? (skill, Heightening, etc.)

Brandon Sanderson

You can assume he whispered each Command as he gave them.

Rhythm of War Preview Q&As (Oct. 13, 2020)

Edited June 7, 2025 by Treamayne
SPAG

[Nitpicking]

7 hours ago, Jult said:

Sorry is it stated somewhere that Vasher is converting Stormlight into Breaths?

I always imagined he was transforming Stormlight into some kind of unkeyed Investiture that his Divine Breath could consume. Not transforming it specifically into Breaths.

My interpretation is the same as yours.

1 hour ago, KaladinsSenseOfHumorSpren said:

Well, we know he's got Tenth Heightening because he isn't saying anything. Same with Vivenna. That is 50,000 Breaths each. If they aren't made from Stormlight, then they must've done a lot of work to get those Breaths.

There's a WoB somewhere where Brandon basically says that Vasher was just whispering his commands.