He is claimed by another.

[king of nowhere]

Why is cultuvation dismissed? With all the focus on improving, dalinar is very connected to cultivation - and not at all to retributiin, he doesn't desire that.

Cultivation is also the only other shard that we know for sure was watching

[+Truthwatcher_412 he/him]

As I understood it too, I assumed this meant that another shard had claimed him before Odium could. Whether that means he was then allowed move to the Beyond or go somewhere else, no idea. But that was my first reaction when I read that line.

Quote

You cannot have him, the powers said, for he is claimed by another.

Who was it that said this? The one claiming him or someone else?

Edited March 5, 2025 by Truthwatcher_412

[Ashbringer he/him]

3 hours ago, Truthwatcher_412 said:

Who was it that said this? The one claiming him or someone else?

"The powers" here are the two Shards Taravangian has, Odium and Honor. But that doesn't give much insight into what the "another" is, unless Honor's a liar and protected Dalinar.

... which wouldn't be the strangest of things, considering that's essentially what Honor did to Tanavast.

[+robardin he/him]

21 hours ago, Truthwatcher_412 said:

As I understood it too, I assumed this meant that another shard had claimed him before Odium could. Whether that means he was then allowed move to the Beyond or go somewhere else, no idea. But that was my first reaction when I read that line.

Who was it that said this? The one claiming him or someone else?

Yeah, at some point in another thread, I reasoned that this had to be the right interpretation because:

(A) All people pass naturally to the Beyond after dying in the Physical Realm, with a "stopover" in the Cognitive Realm.

(B) Highly Invested people like Kelsier the Mistborn "stick around" in the CR a bit longer, but will eventually get pulled Beyond anyway (when Kelsier initially runs after meeting Preservation's Ghost, "Fuzz" observes that "this is pointless"). [Or, if the person had ever Ascended, they cannot be pulled Beyond unless they wish to go or if they were "completely destroyed" a la Rayse via Nightblood; but very few people are in this position, and only Kelsier has taken this route.]

(C) Shards can offer the option to return to the Physical Realm, but can't prevent someone from going Beyond without their wanting or agreeing to it (see Kelsier after begging it of Preservation; Vin, Elend, and Wax being given the choice by Harmony, with two noes and a yes; or Lightsong remembering being "offered the chance" to Return and taking it)

(D) ...unless the person is "under their power": having put themselves under that Shard's power like the Fused did to Odium (on her next death, Leshwi is in for whatever Odium/Retribution wants to do with her soul and cannot just pass Beyond and collect $200), ... or making and breaking an oath to the Shard like Dalinar did.

And Retribution clearly felt, like at a Shardic level not "I think this would be true", that Dalinar "belonged" to him due to clause (D).

Only to find that his soul was "claimed by another". Meaning, one with PRIOR claim, also due to clause (D).

Another Shard.

And now recall Cultivation's comment about "IT WILL DO ME WELL TO HAVE A PIECE OF YOU", when performing her boon on him when he visited the Vale. And after laying out the terms, giving Dalinar the chance to affirm his agreement by asking, "SHOULD I FORBEAR?" (To which he replied, "Do it.")

I think it's clear: as the "price" of a boon is NEVER returned, yet he got his memories of Evi back, those memories were only "part" of the price, as she also clearly stated: "WHAT I TAKE FROM YOU WILL GROW BACK EVENTUALLY. THIS IS PART OF THE COST".

If you read that last sentence with an emphasis on the word PART, it all makes sense. The remaining part of the cost, was or came with a kind of claim stub on his soul.

What Cultivation did / has done / will do with that, we shall find out. I hadn't considered her just letting him pass Beyond, I guess that is possible! But since Physical Dalinar is dead (left a corpse that didn't reanimate and all that), he's at best a Dalinarspren under some kind of direction by her.

Edited March 6, 2025 by robardin

[QuantumAce]

21 hours ago, Truthwatcher_412 said:

As I understood it too, I assumed this meant that another shard had claimed him before Odium could. Whether that means he was then allowed move to the Beyond or go somewhere else, no idea. But that was my first reaction when I read that line.

Who was it that said this? The one claiming him or someone else?

I think it is clear Dalinar's soul was allowed to move to the Beyond. Sidestepping that by saying it is only from Taravangian's perspective and Taravangian was mistaken feels cheap to me. I could be wrong, this is mostly based on my personal feelings. 

The collective powers of Odium and Honor state "You cannot have him, he is claimed by another". It is possible that only excludes Taravangian, but I read that as someone other than the powers as well. Cultivation seems most likely with her claim based on their previous agreement. Doesnt quite feel right to me, but less shenanigan-ish than any than of the alternatives.  

[Master Silver]

This is an excellent recap. I think we are underestimating how invested Dalinar was. Yes it was for a short period of time in the physical realm, but time is somewhat irrelevant in the spiritual realm. We also, don't know how much time elapsed between Dalinar's death and Retribution trying to claim him, maybe a couple hours. If surge binders of the first ideal last a couple of minutes, how long would a Bondsmith last before going to the beyond. Now not only a Bondsmith but also he held the Shard of Honor for a little while. I don't know how much time a Shard needs to imprint upon the soul, but like a Dawnshard the effect begins immediately. So, how much time ellapsed? I don't think it was enough time for Dalinar to fade to the beyond naturally. I also don't think it was Cultivation who claimed him because she fled. I think it was Valor who claimed Dalinar, whether to let him go into the beyond or to continue to fight I don't know. Dalinar's goodbyes to everyone seems to indicate he has reached his destination (The Beyond). 

Edited March 6, 2025 by Master Silver

[+robardin he/him]

1 hour ago, Master Silver said:

This is an excellent recap. I think we are underestimating how invested Dalinar was. Yes it was for a short period of time in the physical realm, but time is somewhat irrelevant in the spiritual realm. We also, don't know how much time elapsed between Dalinar's death and Retribution trying to claim him, maybe a couple hours. If surge binders of the first ideal last a couple of minutes, how long would a Bondsmith last before going to the beyond. Now not only a Bondsmith but also he held the Shard of Honor for a little while. I don't know how much time a Shard needs to imprint upon the soul, but like a Dawnshard the effect begins immediately. So, how much time ellapsed? I don't think it was enough time for Dalinar to fade to the beyond naturally. I also don't think it was Cultivation who claimed him because she fled. I think it was Valor who claimed Dalinar, whether to let him go into the beyond or to continue to fight I don't know. Dalinar's goodbyes to everyone seems to indicate he has reached his destination (The Beyond). 

Dalinar had renounced his oaths — ALL of them — so he was no Bondsmith at the time of his death. Especially since the Stormfather got obliterated by Retribution before that scene, right? So at the minimum he’d be like a Radiant whose spren had suddenly been destroyed, like Teft was in Uritithiru facing off against Vyre.

I think the real question to ponder is, where do all these visions of Nohadon come from? Not from Honor. Is it of Cultivation? Did she merely enable a path to these visions, without providing the content? And who IS this Nohadon recurring in these warm visions he gets, even after taking up the Shard of Honor?

[OoklaApologist She/her]

4 hours ago, robardin said:

Dalinar had renounced his oaths — ALL of them — so he was no Bondsmith at the time of his death. Especially since the Stormfather got obliterated by Retribution before that scene, right? So at the minimum he’d be like a Radiant whose spren had suddenly been destroyed, like Teft was in Uritithiru facing off against Vyre.

Alternatively, Dalinar was very recently holding a shard. Ati stuck around at least a little bit after losing ruin, and i’d assume Dalinar would as well under normal circumstances

[AlmightyGir]

1 hour ago, KelsierApologist said:

Alternatively, Dalinar was very recently holding a shard. Ati stuck around at least a little bit after losing ruin, and i’d assume Dalinar would as well under normal circumstances

He did... He said goodbyes in various forms to his family, and then left.

Dalinar is gone. It's sad, but I think we should all accept it.

[Ashbringer he/him]

Dalinar could have stuck around for a very long time, I think. Kelsier did, and it's implied Rashek / Vin / Ati could have as well, had they chose. Slivers be slivers.

(Dalinar probably held Honor for about as long as Rashek held Preservation?)

[+robardin he/him]

6 hours ago, Ashbringer said:

Dalinar could have stuck around for a very long time, I think. Kelsier did, and it's implied Rashek / Vin / Ati could have as well, had they chose. Slivers be slivers.

(Dalinar probably held Honor for about as long as Rashek held Preservation?)

Well, except that Dalinar’s soul had at least one “claim” on it and apparently two. It’s not so much that he could have been tempted not to go Beyond due to having briefly Ascended, but that he would have been eternally under the thumb of Retribution if not for that other claim.

The reason I pondered The Nohadon Vision Question again is because of the other theory that that is an avatar of yet another power we haven’t seen directly, not Cultivation but another Shard or even Adonalsium’s Ghost or something. Though perhaps with access facilitated by the “piece of Dalinar” that Cultivation took as part of the “cost” of his “pruning”.

It would be kind of beautiful if that was always planted as a backdoor safety chute for Dalinar to Go Beyond after doing what he needed to do to break the Roshar Stalemate that had caused, and would go on causing, so much suffering. Whatever Shard put that claim in, had no intention to use Dalinar as a tool, but simply wanted to keep Odium from being able to do so.

Hmm. That makes me think of something else, another part of what Cultivation mused aloud as she “pruned” Dalinar: “IN DOING THIS, I PROVIDE FOR HIM A WEAPON. DANGEROUS, VERY DANGEROUS.”

Who’s the “him”? On first read it was assumed to be Odium, but “pruning” Dalinar wouldn’t push him into Odium’s clutches; he was already headed towards being the Blackthorn casting Nine Shadows, all on his own, with his deep Connection to the Thrill and desire to have his pain taken from him.

(Though at the last moment, he rephrased that as seeking forgiveness.)

Cultivation has been mentioned several times by other Shards as the one most able to navigate seeing the future. She set up Taravangian to kill Rayse and take up Odium, which is incredible, and saw Taravangian BEFORE Dalinar, right?

Could it be that she was already foreseeing a pruning that would result in Dalinar rejecting Odium at Thaylen Fields, taking up Honor at the Contest of Champions, and then blowing it all up… If she implanted these Nohadonvisions, or planted backdoor access for another Shard to avatar in as Nohadon?

Is the “him” who now has a weapon due to this pruning, … some other power that now has that claim stub on Dalinar?

Or is the outcome that Taravangian now also holds Honor to become Retribution the “providing him a dangerous weapon” she was concerned about?

[CognitiveShadow he/him]

2 hours ago, robardin said:

Or is the outcome that Taravangian now also holds Honor to become Retribution the “providing him a dangerous weapon” she was concerned about?

I like this idea a lot!

[Kesamijr]

8 hours ago, robardin said:

Hmm. That makes me think of something else, another part of what Cultivation mused aloud as she “pruned” Dalinar: “IN DOING THIS, I PROVIDE FOR HIM A WEAPON. DANGEROUS, VERY DANGEROUS.”

Who’s the “him”? On first read it was assumed to be Odium, but “pruning” Dalinar wouldn’t push him into Odium’s clutches; he was already headed towards being the Blackthorn casting Nine Shadows, all on his own, with his deep Connection to the Thrill and desire to have his pain taken from him.

This is such an interesting observation. Especially because I'm in the "Nohadon is Ado's CS" fan theory group currently, could she even be referring to him? I also like the "Dalinar is claimed by Endowment and will Return" theory and the HIM here doesn't make sense in that, though it obviously could just be referencing the fact that she's going to give Taravngian the shard of Honor, something that probably doesn't happen if Dalinar becomes the Blackthorn. And as the Retribution he's potentially very dangerous if also potentially impotent in ways. 

[+robardin he/him]

Oh, and it’s too late for me to go back and edit add this bit, but there’s another clue in the text of when Dalinar gets “pruned” by Cultivation in Ch. 114 of Oathbringer: afterwards, when he can’t remember exactly what happened to him while returning to Felt and the others, and is surprised to realize he remembers literally nothing about his wife, not even her name:

”It seemed that the Nightwatcher had taken memories of his wife, and in so doing, given him the boon of peace. However, he did still feel sorrow and guilt for failing Gavilar, so he wasn’t completely healed. … Dalinar relaxed, but felt like something else was missing inside of him. Something he couldn’t identify.”

Something else was missing, eh? More than just the memories of Evi!

[sonoskay]

I assumed it was valor on my first reading.

I'm super late to this conversation  but I wanted to sit on this for a while.

 Other than the fact that valor has remained  in apperent isolation, and  no one knows what where they are or what they are doing. It makes  enough sense to me that this might be the first  obvious  move they might make, either to claim dalinar as theirs or to let him move on.  In either case it feels like it can be naratively explained.

 

Also I want to say there is a line hoid drops valor name at the end of wind and truth. But  I can't remember  the exact context.

 

Adalinars action at the end are the definition  of valorous. Though  I do know that means little if the shard has no presence or tie to the system(from my understanding)

 

 Though upon reading theories, I suppose cultivation  makes the most logical  sense, but considering how she  abandoned  ship, I assumed it was a move to completely cut her losses.  Cultivation  tried her best and produced an outcome extremely  unlikely to the point that to make safer bets, she decided  forgo this one.

 

I also like the idea of mercy somehow intervening. But that seems extremely  unlikely. I don't know how how you could narratively support this.

 

I guess I'm happy to see  the community doesn't have a strong consensus about this at the moment. 

[Hoids Imaginary Friend]

5 hours ago, sonoskay said:

I assumed it was valor on my first reading.

I'm super late to this conversation  but I wanted to sit on this for a while.

 Other than the fact that valor has remained  in apperent isolation, and  no one knows what where they are or what they are doing. It makes  enough sense to me that this might be the first  obvious  move they might make, either to claim dalinar as theirs or to let him move on.  In either case it feels like it can be naratively explained.

 

Also I want to say there is a line hoid drops valor name at the end of wind and truth. But  I can't remember  the exact context.

 

Adalinars action at the end are the definition  of valorous. Though  I do know that means little if the shard has no presence or tie to the system(from my understanding)

 

 Though upon reading theories, I suppose cultivation  makes the most logical  sense, but considering how she  abandoned  ship, I assumed it was a move to completely cut her losses.  Cultivation  tried her best and produced an outcome extremely  unlikely to the point that to make safer bets, she decided  forgo this one.

 

I also like the idea of mercy somehow intervening. But that seems extremely  unlikely. I don't know how how you could narratively support this.

 

I guess I'm happy to see  the community doesn't have a strong consensus about this at the moment. 

I too have this on my Valor conspiracy board, with lines connection to Nohadon, the warm light (that only appeared after large battles Dalinar was directly involved in) and the letters.

Regarding the letters, something that's not really talked about is how both Harmony and Endowment were able to locate and communicate with Valor, presumably recently. And Honor and Todium are unable to find her over 1000s of years, it's as if she's hiding from Roshar..

Also, Valor asks Endowment for help. I wonder what she needed from a Shard that makes little gods out of dead people..?  

[Nitpicking]

11 hours ago, Hoids Imaginary Friend said:

I too have this on my Valor conspiracy board, with lines connection to Nohadon, the warm light (that only appeared after large battles Dalinar was directly involved in) and the letters.

I continue to insist that Nohadon is Frost. You'd have to read Dragonsteel Prime plus the Isles of the Emberdark preview chapter to understand my logic.

[Mattel]

I'm also curious about the fact that this isn't the first time this has shown up in a Stormlight Sanderson book. In WoR, Shallan is told this by Mraize about Amaram: "his life belongs to another."

Is there anything about Amaram's situation that we could draw similar conclusions about towards Dalinar?

 

My personal thoughts on the subject: Semi-naively but also because it is the one most dominating theme in the entire world, I thought that Evi Kholin had "claimed" him. Love is the shard that seems most..... conspicuously absent. Like I'm talking I think that it could be another Shard, or that maybe it should. So perhaps in the Beyond, Love, on behalf of Evi, has claimed Dalinar's dead soul so that he may at last be at peace. Note: While the scene at the Rift was a time when Dalinar was most connected to Odium, this is definitely not the most relevant or absolutely necessary scene for Taravangian to visit to collect Dalinar for his own. That Odium was Rayse and not Taravangian, so almost any other time when Taravangian was around Dalinar would have worked as well. Buuuuuut, this scene at the Rift Dalinar had kind of just made peace within himself and had defended Evi, and redeemed within himself his greatest failure of all time. 

He showed Evi his love.

Soooooooo... is there anything plausible about this thought?

[AsherCrane]

14 hours ago, Mattel said:

I'm also curious about the fact that this isn't the first time this has shown up in a Stormlight Sanderson book. In WoR, Shallan is told this by Mraize about Amaram: "his life belongs to another."

Is there anything about Amaram's situation that we could draw similar conclusions about towards Dalinar?

 

My personal thoughts on the subject: Semi-naively but also because it is the one most dominating theme in the entire world, I thought that Evi Kholin had "claimed" him. Love is the shard that seems most..... conspicuously absent. Like I'm talking I think that it could be another Shard, or that maybe it should. So perhaps in the Beyond, Love, on behalf of Evi, has claimed Dalinar's dead soul so that he may at last be at peace. Note: While the scene at the Rift was a time when Dalinar was most connected to Odium, this is definitely not the most relevant or absolutely necessary scene for Taravangian to visit to collect Dalinar for his own. That Odium was Rayse and not Taravangian, so almost any other time when Taravangian was around Dalinar would have worked as well. Buuuuuut, this scene at the Rift Dalinar had kind of just made peace within himself and had defended Evi, and redeemed within himself his greatest failure of all time. 

He showed Evi his love.

Soooooooo... is there anything plausible about this thought?

I can't quote exactly, but according to the coppermind and my own recollection, Honor claimed that Devotion was the shard of Divine love and compassion.

[CognitiveShadow he/him]

16 hours ago, Mattel said:

I'm also curious about the fact that this isn't the first time this has shown up in a Stormlight Sanderson book. In WoR, Shallan is told this by Mraize about Amaram: "his life belongs to another."

Is there anything about Amaram's situation that we could draw similar conclusions about towards Dalinar?

 

My personal thoughts on the subject: Semi-naively but also because it is the one most dominating theme in the entire world, I thought that Evi Kholin had "claimed" him. Love is the shard that seems most..... conspicuously absent. Like I'm talking I think that it could be another Shard, or that maybe it should. So perhaps in the Beyond, Love, on behalf of Evi, has claimed Dalinar's dead soul so that he may at last be at peace. Note: While the scene at the Rift was a time when Dalinar was most connected to Odium, this is definitely not the most relevant or absolutely necessary scene for Taravangian to visit to collect Dalinar for his own. That Odium was Rayse and not Taravangian, so almost any other time when Taravangian was around Dalinar would have worked as well. Buuuuuut, this scene at the Rift Dalinar had kind of just made peace within himself and had defended Evi, and redeemed within himself his greatest failure of all time. 

He showed Evi his love.

Soooooooo... is there anything plausible about this thought?

Given that Iyatil makes an attempt on Amaram's life with a poisoned dart, it could be that she had a claim on Amaram for some reason. That would fit neatly as a reason why Mraize told her that his life belongs to another. They operate as hunters and respect someone else having a claim to be the one who hunts another person. It could also be a reference to Kaladin, but idk if the Ghostbloods have knowledge of Kaladin's past at that point?

For Evi - I don't think this is possible for two reasons:

1. Dalinar is also married to and in love with Navani, who is still alive at that time. Would her love be overridden by Evi's love? He has many people who he loves and who love him, but we've never seen the Harry Potter style of 'love' protecting someone from harm or anything like that. I don't think it fits within the mechanics of the Cosmere
2. Brandon has said that he will not confirm if there actually is or is not an afterlife in the Cosmere. The Beyond is basically what we refer to as the next life or afterlife. It's an unprovable claim, and for all we know the people who stretch into the beyond just cease to exist entirely and their remaining investiture is sent to the Spiritual realm and recycled out through on or multiple perpendicularities. Even the shards can't reach into the beyond or gain any information about it. The idea of the 'god beyond' that we see in the Cosmere is something that I doubt ever gets confirmed in any kind of direct way.

I think the language used here is pretty clear and literal - there was some sort of force preventing Taravangian from seizing hold of Dalinar at that time. He was claimed by another force/entity that prevented his power from interceding and stopping Dalinar from entering the Beyond. Most likely IMO is definitely Valor, but we will see what other clues and tidbits come out along the way!

[RefusesToElaborate]

On 3/31/2025 at 1:10 PM, Mattel said:

I'm also curious about the fact that this isn't the first time this has shown up in a Stormlight Sanderson book. In WoR, Shallan is told this by Mraize about Amaram: "his life belongs to another."

Is there anything about Amaram's situation that we could draw similar conclusions about towards Dalinar?

 

My personal thoughts on the subject: Semi-naively but also because it is the one most dominating theme in the entire world, I thought that Evi Kholin had "claimed" him. Love is the shard that seems most..... conspicuously absent. Like I'm talking I think that it could be another Shard, or that maybe it should. So perhaps in the Beyond, Love, on behalf of Evi, has claimed Dalinar's dead soul so that he may at last be at peace. Note: While the scene at the Rift was a time when Dalinar was most connected to Odium, this is definitely not the most relevant or absolutely necessary scene for Taravangian to visit to collect Dalinar for his own. That Odium was Rayse and not Taravangian, so almost any other time when Taravangian was around Dalinar would have worked as well. Buuuuuut, this scene at the Rift Dalinar had kind of just made peace within himself and had defended Evi, and redeemed within himself his greatest failure of all time. 

He showed Evi his love.

Soooooooo... is there anything plausible about this thought?

>Love is the Shard that is conspicuously absent.

I don't know about this.

All the Shards seem to make up fragments of a whole personality. Bits of its Reason and Honour and Valour and Ambition, but also... 16 vague concepts do not make up a person's personality. It's clear some shards are lifting heavy, carrying multiple aspects of personality.

I believe you could make an argument that Devotion, Mercy and (based on behaviour) Preservation, when combined, would for a Shard that would call itself Love, however would encompass... more.

[Jult]

On 4/22/2025 at 11:12 AM, RefusesToElaborate said:

>Love is the Shard that is conspicuously absent.

I don't know about this.

All the Shards seem to make up fragments of a whole personality. Bits of its Reason and Honour and Valour and Ambition, but also... 16 vague concepts do not make up a person's personality. It's clear some shards are lifting heavy, carrying multiple aspects of personality.

I believe you could make an argument that Devotion, Mercy and (based on behaviour) Preservation, when combined, would for a Shard that would call itself Love, however would encompass... more.

 

Also, I feel it's worth noting that the names of the Shards aren't 100% set in stone. I've seen a few WoBs that dance around the subject a bit like this one:

Quote

Sethcran

Who in-world named the Intents of the Shards? Is it possible that they misinterpreted the name in any case, and that the Intent is not fully in line with the name we know?

Brandon Sanderson

This is possible. Right, this is absolutely possible. I mean you have context for this with Odium kind of claiming that it's not the right name for Odium. Others would disagree, but Odium has tried, aggressively, to change that name. I will say, you could make the argument, well, Odium just is bucking the trend and this is actually who Odium is. It is possible. Which is why Odium would try to get that name changed. These are imperfect definitions of ideas, as most words are. Those ideas could be misinterpreted.

Sethcran

Could a Deception Shard be out there calling itself something else, and none would be the wiser?

Brandon Sanderson

None being the wiser would be real hard. The other Shards knowing but other people not knowing could happen. It would be pretty hard for the Shards to not know, but it is within the realm of possibility. How about that?

YouTube Spoiler Stream 5 (Dec. 2, 2022)

Or this much older one:

Quote

Questioner

We know Ati chose how Ruin was interpreted, in that he was a card-cackling maniac. Could someone so differently interpret a Shard as to change its name to be something different? Could someone pick up the Shard of Ruin and think I'm the Shard of Change? Or could someone pick up the Shard of Honor and think--

Brandon Sanderson

*hesitantly* Yes. To an extent. The interpretation, what you call a thing-- I think it would be arguable either way in-world, regardless of what they call themselves. There are those who would say the core intent is still there and you can't shift it that far, and others would argue you can shift it far enough to change the definition to a synonym. You see evidence of someone claiming this in the books. I'm not gonna confirm or deny for you whether that is actually a thing or not.

Oathbringer London signing (Nov. 28, 2017)

So, I feel it's not too crazy to suggest that perhaps the Shard we know as 'Devotion' or some other Shard could have been called 'Love' in the hands of another Vessel.

[SpartanBrigade He/Him]

On 4/22/2025 at 10:12 AM, RefusesToElaborate said:

>Love is the Shard that is conspicuously absent.

I don't know about this.

All the Shards seem to make up fragments of a whole personality. Bits of its Reason and Honour and Valour and Ambition, but also... 16 vague concepts do not make up a person's personality. It's clear some shards are lifting heavy, carrying multiple aspects of personality.

I believe you could make an argument that Devotion, Mercy and (based on behaviour) Preservation, when combined, would for a Shard that would call itself Love, however would encompass... more.

We know Devotion is the same as Love

 

On 3/30/2025 at 9:10 PM, Mattel said:

I'm also curious about the fact that this isn't the first time this has shown up in a Stormlight Sanderson book. In WoR, Shallan is told this by Mraize about Amaram: "his life belongs to another."

Is there anything about Amaram's situation that we could draw similar conclusions about towards Dalinar?

 

My personal thoughts on the subject: Semi-naively but also because it is the one most dominating theme in the entire world, I thought that Evi Kholin had "claimed" him. Love is the shard that seems most..... conspicuously absent. Like I'm talking I think that it could be another Shard, or that maybe it should. So perhaps in the Beyond, Love, on behalf of Evi, has claimed Dalinar's dead soul so that he may at last be at peace. Note: While the scene at the Rift was a time when Dalinar was most connected to Odium, this is definitely not the most relevant or absolutely necessary scene for Taravangian to visit to collect Dalinar for his own. That Odium was Rayse and not Taravangian, so almost any other time when Taravangian was around Dalinar would have worked as well. Buuuuuut, this scene at the Rift Dalinar had kind of just made peace within himself and had defended Evi, and redeemed within himself his greatest failure of all time. 

He showed Evi his love.

Soooooooo... is there anything plausible about this thought?

Love is conspicuously absent since she's quite dead. Devotion was killed on Sel along with Dominion. Odium killed both early in his career and stuffed their "bodies" in the Cognitive Realm, forming The Dor and the basis of Selish magic. 
Here's the WoB confirming Devotion was Love
https://wob.coppermind.net/events/205/#e4539

[Brian_a_mul]

Just finished WaT. Loved it!

Just reading this thread and I think it could be Gavilar, Dalinars older brother, that has claimed him. He was known to be searching for immortal power as a Herald and is the ultimate schemer. He was dealing with Kelek, Kelsier/Thaidakar and Stormfather was considering him as host for Honor. He had access to some serious intel & off world resources. wouldnt be surprised if he obtained a Shard somewhere and still lays claim to Dalinar. Maybe he had found a way to unsplinter Ambition and take that power. Gavilar seems like the perfect and natural host for Ambition.

I think Gavilar had claimed Dalinar a long time ago!! 

What do ye'll think of this theory??

3 hours ago, SpartanBrigade said:

We know Devotion is the same as Love

 

Love is conspicuously absent since she's quite dead. Devotion was killed on Sel along with Dominion. Odium killed both early in his career and stuffed their "bodies" in the Cognitive Realm, forming The Dor and the basis of Selish magic. 
Here's the WoB confirming Devotion was Love
https://wob.coppermind.net/events/205/#e4539

I like this idea of Evi claiming Dalinar and it would cause Dalinar some dilema with Navani . 

[SpartanBrigade He/Him]

3 hours ago, Brian_a_mul said:

Just finished WaT. Loved it!

Just reading this thread and I think it could be Gavilar, Dalinars older brother, that has claimed him. He was known to be searching for immortal power as a Herald and is the ultimate schemer. He was dealing with Kelek, Kelsier/Thaidakar and Stormfather was considering him as host for Honor. He had access to some serious intel & off world resources. wouldnt be surprised if he obtained a Shard somewhere and still lays claim to Dalinar. Maybe he had found a way to unsplinter Ambition and take that power. Gavilar seems like the perfect and natural host for Ambition.

I think Gavilar had claimed Dalinar a long time ago!! 

What do ye'll think of this theory??

I like this idea of Evi claiming Dalinar and it would cause Dalinar some dilema with Navani . 

I like the theory but we did see Gavilar die on screen. The book was pretty decisive with him “dying alone as all men must” or something along those lines. He could be a Cognitive Shadow since he’s was a kind-of Bondsmith at the time but I think he’d have faded like Eshonai did. I imagine his CS faded faster than hers did as well since the only power that could have extended the Cognitive Shadow’s existence was The Stormfather and he made it very clear he had no interest in associating with Gavilar after he realized what he was up to.