Master Silver Posted January 14, 2025 Posted January 14, 2025 Yes she set Dalinar on this path, but experience with him would indicate that as Honor, Dalinar would just punch harder. I don't think anyone can convince me that Dalinar wouldn't have killed Taravangian had he fought. And Cultivation being a Shard, probably would think it was worth it, or at least her power would be glad to be free.
Ewery1 Posted January 14, 2025 Posted January 14, 2025 10 minutes ago, Master Silver said: Yes she set Dalinar on this path, but experience with him would indicate that as Honor, Dalinar would just punch harder. I don't think anyone can convince me that Dalinar wouldn't have killed Taravangian had he fought. And Cultivation being a Shard, probably would think it was worth it, or at least her power would be glad to be free. I don’t think so… if this were the case, why would she have set Dalinar on the path of Change? He has not had any serious victory since he visited her by “punching harder”. Narak was won by GIVING UP his shardblade to get Kal & crew, the Thrill was defeated by accepting his pain & emotional regulation, Urithiru was saved by him forcibly making his best soldier step down. This is no longer a man who wins by punching harder. Even more, that is the man Cultivation made him.
Master Silver Posted January 14, 2025 Posted January 14, 2025 18 minutes ago, Ewery1 said: I don’t think so… if this were the case, why would she have set Dalinar on the path of Change? He has not had any serious victory since he visited her by “punching harder”. Narak was won by GIVING UP his shardblade to get Kal & crew, the Thrill was defeated by accepting his pain & emotional regulation, Urithiru was saved by him forcibly making his best soldier step down. This is no longer a man who wins by punching harder. Even more, that is the man Cultivation made him. I would say this is no longer a man who ONLY wins by punching harder. The Blackthorn is still there as a part of him, waiting to be called out. Taravangian takes up the power because he knew he could have (my opinion is would have) lost.
Ewery1 Posted January 15, 2025 Posted January 15, 2025 1 minute ago, Master Silver said: I would say this is no longer a man who ONLY wins by punching harder. The Blackthorn is still there as a part of him, waiting to be called out. Taravangian takes up the power because he knew he could have (my opinion is would have) lost. I think it’s very unlikely that Cultivation wants all of her creations on Roshar to be destroyed in a fight between Honor and Odium lol. Gonna agree to disagree here! 1
Isilel Posted January 15, 2025 Posted January 15, 2025 (edited) @Red Blue The Night of Sorrows is mentioned in WoK in the epigraph to chapter 5, but there it is a death rattle. But also in connection to Dalinar's visions in chapters 18, 52, 61 and 75. "Unite them. The sun approaches the horizon. The Everstorm comes. The True Desolation. The Night of Sorrows". Edited January 15, 2025 by Isilel 1
Lord Ruler Sylphrena He/Him Posted January 15, 2025 Posted January 15, 2025 Future sight in the Cosmere is a bit odd. Leras definitely looks like a God tier genius because of his plan but if it failed he would have seemed like a idiot. You can see infinite possibilities as a shard and so you can always see a future where you succeed. Oduim had future sight to and thought Dalinar and Kaladin would side with him but he was incorrect. Shards seem to be less able to predict the actions of other shards and so Cultivation was certainly blindsided by this outcome. This wasn't to say she wasn't prepared though. The creation of Lift's unique abilities are going to be crucial in a world without stormlight. Cultivation didn't win but she was prepared to fail. 1
Treamayne Posted January 15, 2025 Posted January 15, 2025 1 hour ago, Isilel said: 3 hours ago, RedBlue said: Do you have a chapter reference (or rough idea where this happened) so I can reread this bit? @Red Blue The Night of Sorrows is mentioned in WoK in the epigraph to chapter 5, but there it is a death rattle. But also in connection to Dalinar's visions in chapters 18, 52, 61 and 75. "Unite them. The sun approaches the horizon. The Everstorm comes. The True Desolation. The Night of Sorrows". @Isilel already gave the references - two of which are Dalinar just remembering the phrase from the visions. The Vision scenes themselves are: <snip> Spoiler WoK Ch 75 - First vision and last vision of this book Quote No, wait. He frowned, stepping back as the figure of a tree burst from the ground close to him. I have seen this place before. In the first of my visions, so many months ago. It was fuzzy in his mind. He’d been disoriented, the vision vague, as if his mind hadn’t learned to accept what it was seeing. In fact, the only thing he remembered distinctly was— “You must unite them,” a strong voice boomed. —was the voice. Speaking to him from all around, causing the smoke figures to fuzz and distort. “Why did you lie to me?” Dalinar demanded of the open darkness. “I did what you said, and I was betrayed!” “Unite them. The sun approaches the horizon. The Everstorm comes. The True Desolation. The Night of Sorrows.” “I need answers!” Dalinar said. WoK Ch 52 - Feverstone Keep Vision: Quote They are the first,” the Radiant said, turning to Dalinar. Dalinar recognized the depth of that voice. It was the voice that always spoke to him in these visions. “They were the first, and they were also the last.” “Is this the Day of Recreance?” Dalinar asked. “These events will go down in history,” the Radiant said. “They will be infamous. You will have many names for what happened here.” “But why?” Dalinar asked. “Please. Why did they abandon their duty?” The figure seemed to study him. “I have said that I that cannot be of much help to you. The Night of Sorrows will come, and the True Desolation. The Everstorm.” “Then answer my questions!” Dalinar said. “Read the book. Unite them.” Hope that helps 2
Darth_Hel Posted January 15, 2025 Posted January 15, 2025 Questioner When one of the shards, like Odium, move from world to world in the cosmere, does their presence, like the metals they leave behind and their magic, leave with them? Brandon Sanderson Odium never really settled on a planet. He is now settled on Roshar and his magic has permeated things. Leaving would be very difficult for him. It would either involve leaving behind some of his power or ripping that out, which would be a difficult process. So yes it is very tough to leave. Phoenix Comicon 2013 (May 24, 2013) This WoB just came up in another post. I think it explains why Cultivation might have needed Odium dead or distracted if she wanted to leave the world so he couldn’t hunt her down while she was wounded 1
JohnnyKaizen he/him Posted January 15, 2025 Posted January 15, 2025 4 minutes ago, Darth_Hel said: Questioner When one of the shards, like Odium, move from world to world in the cosmere, does their presence, like the metals they leave behind and their magic, leave with them? Brandon Sanderson Odium never really settled on a planet. He is now settled on Roshar and his magic has permeated things. Leaving would be very difficult for him. It would either involve leaving behind some of his power or ripping that out, which would be a difficult process. So yes it is very tough to leave. Phoenix Comicon 2013 (May 24, 2013) This WoB just came up in another post. I think it explains why Cultivation might have needed Odium dead or distracted if she wanted to leave the world so he couldn’t hunt her down while she was wounded Which raises the questions, how did Cultivation leave immediately? What did it cost her? Obviously Lift is still Lift, so her magic is still there.
Master Silver Posted January 15, 2025 Posted January 15, 2025 19 hours ago, Lord Ruler Sylphrena said: Future sight in the Cosmere is a bit odd. Leras definitely looks like a God tier genius because of his plan but if it failed he would have seemed like a idiot. You can see infinite possibilities as a shard and so you can always see a future where you succeed. Oduim had future sight to and thought Dalinar and Kaladin would side with him but he was incorrect. Shards seem to be less able to predict the actions of other shards and so Cultivation was certainly blindsided by this outcome. This wasn't to say she wasn't prepared though. The creation of Lift's unique abilities are going to be crucial in a world without stormlight. Cultivation didn't win but she was prepared to fail. I am really rooting for Adolin to get his leg back. It seems crazy to know it is possible, to have the wealth to pay for regrowth but not be able to access it. Come on Lift we are counting on you. 1
TheoreticalMagic Posted January 15, 2025 Posted January 15, 2025 (edited) Tbh I'm expecting him to not get it back, hence the focus on giving him a Shardplate prosthetic instead of him managing to make do with the peg in the meanwhile. With how long it'll likely be before they have access to Lift or access to Regrowth, Adolin's pragmatism and willingness to change his sense of self over the course of the books, his adaptability, etc....might result in him internalizing an acceptance of himself as missing that foot by the time actually healing it becomes an option. His coming to terms with his disability in order to speedrun his return to being the best swordsman he can possibly be, especially with how much the Unoathed are needed, plausibly suggests that Regrowth in the future won't be an option for him because he'll already have adapted his Identity/self-image to view himself as not needing his foot back in order to feel whole and competent. As long as the Shardplate prosthetic lets him do what is most important to him and his sense of self, fulfills the necessary functions - even accounting for the likelihood that he'll have to take it off at times, magic or not, same as any prosthetic - cosmere healing probably just won't see it as something that needs changing, ultimately. But only because Adolin himself sees it that way. Unlike Lopen who always emphasized himself as missing his arm....not necessarily in a self-deprecating way, he had a sense of humor about it of course, but the way he talked about his arm kept his awareness focused on that limb as something he actually felt was MISSING, hence why it did regrow. Edited January 15, 2025 by TheoreticalMagic 6
Treamayne Posted January 15, 2025 Posted January 15, 2025 (edited) 10 hours ago, JohnnyKaizen said: Which raises the questions, how did Cultivation leave immediately? What did it cost her? Obviously Lift is still Lift, so her magic is still there. Well, considering all Radiant Spren are a combination of Honor and Cultivation (even if Honor and Cultivation Spren are 95+%/5-% mixes), and all the them were still around - it sounds like most of the things Invested by Cultivation remain. She took the Shardpool (probably no choice there, as they are created by a Shard being "in residence"). We have no indications that I can recall on the fate of Nightwatcher - but I would guess that she remained on Roshar. Not sure what else would be on the list for taking or leaving. Edited January 16, 2025 by Treamayne SPAG 1
Argenti he/him Posted January 16, 2025 Posted January 16, 2025 4 hours ago, Treamayne said: Well, consideing all Radiant Spren are a combination of Honor and Cultivation (even if Honor and Cultivation Spren are 95+%/5-% mixes), and all the them were still around - it sounds like most of the things Invested by Cultivation remain. She took the Shardpool (probably no choice there, as they are created by a Shard being "in residence"). We have no indications that I can recall on the fate of Nightwatcher - but I would guess that she remained on Roshar. Not sure what else would be on the list for taking or leaving. Perhaps whatever Lifebinding is? Maybe there's some lifebinders in the Nantan?
Treamayne Posted January 16, 2025 Posted January 16, 2025 2 minutes ago, Argenti said: Perhaps whatever Lifebinding is? Does that theory still persist in light of WaT? The flashbacks showed no indications that Kor sponsored a version of the Surges.
Argenti he/him Posted January 16, 2025 Posted January 16, 2025 56 minutes ago, Treamayne said: Does that theory still persist in light of WaT? The flashbacks showed no indications that Kor sponsored a version of the Surges. Honestly, I don't think they really had any legs to stand on, but it's weird she seemingly powered nothing at all. Even surge binding, which is supposedly based on Cultivation and Honor, is significantly more Honor aligned. Maybe she was powering the Flora and Fauna?
Treamayne Posted January 16, 2025 Posted January 16, 2025 (edited) 20 hours ago, Argenti said: Even surge binding, which is supposedly based on Cultivation and Honor, is significantly more Honor aligned. I'm not sure I agree here. More than 50% Honor, maybe. However the flashback showed that the surges themselves were independent of both; so, looking at the Radiants, we have Oaths as the mechanism for Growth.. Seems nearly 50/50 to me (not including Heralds). Though, keep in mind that Shards don't create MoIs - they can affect how they are expressed (such as Honor placing limits on Surgebinding) but the Manifestations of Investiture themselves are a result of Realmatic Interactions between the intent(s) present and the planet and the people located there. Spoiler asmodeus You've said before that a lot of the magics we see across the cosmere come from an interaction of Shards and their Investiture with the planets they Invest in. What does this mean practically? If Scadrial explodes tomorrow, will Hemalurgy stop working across the cosmere? Brandon Sanderson Hemalurgy wouldn't stop working, most likely, but it could. There are ways that you could make it stop working. I kind of mean that the Shards are an innate part of physics in the cosmere, and the magics that arise are an innate part of physics because of that. Like atium seeped out into the Pits of Hathsin, in the same way, these magics are just gonna leak out, and different places are going to affect them. You'll see Lightweaving happening in different places, and the way the Shard is interacting with the local... The way the Shard is is going to affect how Lightweaving is administrated in the various magics, but it's still gonna be there. Hemalurgy is kind of a similar thing to that. You will see Midnight Essence, you will see some of these recurring ideas popping up, and these are like natural parts of the physics, but they're influenced by the Shards on the local planets. I don't know if that answer, that's gonna be a really fun one for them to transcribe into the Q&A thing, because I go around in circles on that question a ton. Put this part in when you do it. Footnote: It was a really fun one. YouTube Spoiler Stream 4 (June 16, 2022) Scadrian Magic is tied to metal, not because Ruin or Preservation (or both) decided "lets use metal" - rather the Realmatic result of a whole planet created by Shardic essense (which is metallic in physical solid form) and people created the same way interacted to make a Metal Focused environment that was then expressed through Preservation's Intent (allomancy), Ruin's Intent (Hemalurgy) and both (Feruchemy). So, Rosharan system expressed MoI through Light and Gems (likely due to how Adonalsium created it) and Surgebinging resulted due to the Old Gods + Tanner + Kor all mixing with that system (until Rayse showed up to mess with it all). Edited January 16, 2025 by Treamayne SPAG 1
JohnnyKaizen he/him Posted January 16, 2025 Posted January 16, 2025 17 hours ago, Treamayne said: Well, considering all Radiant Spren are a combination of Honor and Cultivation (even if Honor and Cultivation Spren are 95+%/5-% mixes), and all the them were still around - it sounds like most of the things Invested by Cultivation remain. She took the Shardpool (probably no choice there, as they are created by a Shard being "in residence"). We have no indications that I can recall on the fate of Nightwatcher - but I would guess that she remained on Roshar. Not sure what else would be on the list for taking or leaving. I guess that Im confused in that I had thought that investing in a planet or system anchored a shard there. Again, Cultivation was probably making plans to leave quickly for a while in a "just in case" sort of way, but now I'm wondering, was the only thing keeping the three Shards (and their vessels) on Roshar, Honor's binding? There are WoB in this thread were he says that it would be "difficult" for Shards to leave a system they've invested in. I guess I'm not clear how hard is would be for Harmony to leave Scadrial (given that the Shards allowed it) or any other Shard for that matter. 1
TheoreticalMagic Posted January 16, 2025 Posted January 16, 2025 (edited) 20 minutes ago, JohnnyKaizen said: I guess that Im confused in that I had thought that investing in a planet or system anchored a shard there. Again, Cultivation was probably making plans to leave quickly for a while in a "just in case" sort of way, but now I'm wondering, was the only thing keeping the three Shards (and their vessels) on Roshar, Honor's binding? There are WoB in this thread were he says that it would be "difficult" for Shards to leave a system they've invested in. I guess I'm not clear how hard is would be for Harmony to leave Scadrial (given that the Shards allowed it) or any other Shard for that matter. It varies between Shards, though its not always clear why. Preservation and Ruin had particular trouble leaving Scadrial, because they created the planet and its people together, and so they were heavily Invested in it to a degree other Shards don't Invest in planets they arrive on but that aren't OF them. I believe Harmony has more freedom to move about, but not complete, because he is the combined sum of both those Shards and so he kind of "inherited" their degree of Investment in the planet. I suspect the reason he's not AS bound to it is because of some complex Identity mechanics and him seeing himself as still being the powers that made this planet but also seeing himself as someone born of that planet much later, as opposed to how Ati and Leras saw the planet they'd created as part of their own Identity, they'd made it of their hearts and minds and were Connected to it in a much different way than Sazed was Connected to it by birth. Like, I think their Identities perceive a different degree of responsibility as Creators versus Sazed as a Created Successor of the Creators? Its unclear though. But Honor and Cultivation - and later Odium - had to make a concerted effort to make themselves PART of Roshar, and it wasn't a simple and easy thing....but it wasn't as irreversible a thing as it was for Preservation and Ruin, I think. Because those two were part of every single bit of created matter that ended up comprising the Identity of Scadrial the Planet....tethering them even to its Cognitive makeup, I'd guess....whereas the three gods of Roshar had to root themselves in this planet, adapt Roshar to them and adapt themselves to it.....but their Identities still very much were of extended stay visitors. Honor had even left it for a time to oppose Odium on Alaswha, stuff like that. So ultimately, I think the three of them could have pulled up stakes and moved on at any point, if not for the binding they'd all agreed to at the time. Since Cultivation was making a lot of plans for the future, it makes sense that she had her bags packed and ready to go, if things came to this. I suspect that she might have been more involved with the Radiants in the past - I mean, we haven't seen any Bondsmith for the Nightwatcher in what history we do know, but so much emphasis has been placed on her as one of the three Bondsmith spren and "there can never be more than three at a time" has come up enough that its hard for me to imagine that there's NEVER been a Nightwatcher Bondsmith. And I think that part of being ready to leave at a moment's notice was Cultivation making sure that her plans to try and stop Odium and then Taravangian DIDN'T require her Investing heavily in the Radiants of this period. Her help never involved her seeking out a new Bondsmith for "her" spren, she seemed to have a very hands-off approach to the Orders using her Surges, and I don't believe for a second that Lift is the first person in all of Roshar that's ever used Lifelight....I think the lack of knowledge about Lifelight and the general unavailability of it compared to Stormlight and Voidlight....is BECAUSE she'd been steadily withdrawing her Investiture for awhile, pulling up the roots she'd dug in initially so that she could get out of town ASAP if Odium did win. A huge part of me thinking that Cultivation has a grander plan than what we've seen is because I feel like she HAD to be prepared - in a major way - to leave Roshar with a moment's notice, or else by the very nature of Shards' Investing in a planet, she wouldn't have been able to do it AS quickly (or with as little damage to the rest of the planet) as she seemed to. The degree of prep work I presume had to go into her departure doesn't strike me as someone who was all that blindsided by the possibility Taravangian just might turn out to be not that great after all. This woman was ready to GO. She saw this coming, even with the failsafes we did see her try to engage, like going after Taravangian's kingdom. *Shrugs* That's my take anyway. Edited January 16, 2025 by TheoreticalMagic 5
Darth_Hel Posted January 16, 2025 Posted January 16, 2025 They are basically anchored there. If they want to cleanly leave, I think they need to take time to fully unwind the extra investiture they put into the planet. Harmony might be a weird one since Ruin and Preservation created the planet and humans, so it might destroy all of it.
Treamayne Posted January 16, 2025 Posted January 16, 2025 16 minutes ago, JohnnyKaizen said: There are WoB in this thread were he says that it would be "difficult" for Shards to leave a system they've invested in. I guess I'm not clear how hard is would be for Harmony to leave Scadrial (given that the Shards allowed it) or any other Shard for that matter. So far, Brandon has not clarified, but referencing the WoB you mentioned: Spoiler Questioner When one of the shards, like Odium, move from world to world in the cosmere, does their presence, like the metals they leave behind and their magic, leave with them? Brandon Sanderson Odium never really settled on a planet. He is now settled on Roshar and his magic has permeated things. Leaving would be very difficult for him. It would either involve leaving behind some of his power or ripping that out, which would be a difficult process. So yes it is very tough to leave. Phoenix Comicon 2013 (May 24, 2013) I think "difficult" here is "not simple" (as opposed to "not easy"). It's a choice to either leave behind part of yourself, or rip it out and hurt or kill all you have previously worked toward. But we do not have that clarifiation yet. That's partly why my post was about why I thought Cultivation's real plan was to escape Roshar - she left so quickly, she was likely ready for this action as soon as an opportunity presented itself. She had already accomplished whatever was required to leave behind what needed to remain and take the rest with her somewhere else. 4
JohnnyKaizen he/him Posted January 16, 2025 Posted January 16, 2025 (edited) 38 minutes ago, TheoreticalMagic said: This woman was ready to GO. She saw this coming, even with the failsafes we did see her try to engage, like going after Taravangian's kingdom. *Shrugs* That's my take anyway. When Cultivation moved against Kharbranth, it felt so out of character to me. Yes, she could have been pruning something (the city, Taravangian, Odium?) but all in all, I thought it was a weird move for her. Small on the scale of a Shard, and a bit petty, and also an underestimation of how far Taravangian would/will go to prove that he is right. And now...now I am thinking about her "turning away" from Taravangian's destruction of the city. Killing your own family and every person who was under your care is a terrible, nasty, despicable thing...but is it enough to frighten/scare/horrify an imortal Dragon who killed Adonalsium, took up a peace of its corpse, and has lived over 10,000 years? The only way I could every justifiably say yes, would be if destroying Kharbranth was so against the Intent of the Shard of Cultivation, that she and the power might have felt compelled to look away. But what Taravangian was doing was in line with the Intent of Cultivation. He was pruning away a vestigial connection so that he could grow more fully into his new role as Shard bearer of Odium. So the ultimate answer is no..Cultivation had no reason to "look away" with both her own sight and the sight of her Shard. More and more, it just feels like she played Taravangian like a fiddle and then peaced the hell out of there right when Taravangian thought he was winning, so that he would keep on thinking that he was winning and not dancing to the tune that Cultivation is playing for him. I could be entirely wrong, but it really does feel like Cultivation has been, and still is, nudging Taravangian exactly where she wants him to go? 36 minutes ago, Treamayne said: I think "difficult" here is "not simple" (as opposed to "not easy"). It's a choice to either leave behind part of yourself, or rip it out and hurt or kill all you have previously worked toward. But we do not have that clarifiation yet. Yeaaaaaaaaah. When you put it that way, my Sandersense tingles to all of the very heavy lifting that "difficult" can be doing there. Because ultimately, difficult is not impossible. So by the rules of Brandon, all he actually and definitively said was "Usually Shards don't do this, but they can." Edited January 16, 2025 by JohnnyKaizen 7
RefusesToElaborate Posted January 17, 2025 Posted January 17, 2025 On 1/11/2025 at 4:28 AM, coolsnow7 said: Book 10 culminates in all of Roshar declaring that they will be the first Shard-free world, [Threnody will remember that.] 2
Nitpicking Posted January 18, 2025 Posted January 18, 2025 On 1/14/2025 at 7:54 PM, Lord Ruler Sylphrena said: Future sight in the Cosmere is a bit odd. Leras definitely looks like a God tier genius because of his plan but if it failed he would have seemed like a idiot. You can see infinite possibilities as a shard and so you can always see a future where you succeed. Oduim had future sight to and thought Dalinar and Kaladin would side with him but he was incorrect. Shards seem to be less able to predict the actions of other shards and so Cultivation was certainly blindsided by this outcome. This wasn't to say she wasn't prepared though. The creation of Lift's unique abilities are going to be crucial in a world without stormlight. Cultivation didn't win but she was prepared to fail. We see Odium not able to predict Dalinar's actions because Renarin's Futuresight exists. Brandon is clearly homaging Dune and its sequels, where ... OK, spoiler for Frank and his kid's series: Spoiler It turns out that Paul Atreides' whole plan was to make everyone in the universe a precognitive, because that would create so much interference with other precogs that nobody could actually foresee the future, and free will would exist again. On 1/15/2025 at 9:55 PM, Argenti said: Honestly, I don't think they really had any legs to stand on, but it's weird she seemingly powered nothing at all. Even surge binding, which is supposedly based on Cultivation and Honor, is significantly more Honor aligned. Maybe she was powering the Flora and Fauna? She empowered the Old Magic. 23 hours ago, RefusesToElaborate said: [Threnody will remember that.] [referring to a world without a Shard] There are apparently many inhabited planets in the Cosmere that have no Shards in residence. Humans from major Shardworlds have a really hard time visiting them, because they have no Perpendicularity. 2
RefusesToElaborate Posted January 19, 2025 Posted January 19, 2025 23 hours ago, Nitpicking said: [referring to a world without a Shard] There are apparently many inhabited planets in the Cosmere that have no Shards in residence. Humans from major Shardworlds have a really hard time visiting them, because they have no Perpendicularity. Spoiler The Night Brigade is made up of Threnodites on an interstellar ship, and seems to be capable of landing. More than that, people from Threnody have somehow managed to leave Threnody and end up on Canticle. Also the backstory to Threnody seems to involve somehow arriving there from another world. There's also the Iriali who seem to be able to, as a culture travel between worlds and seem to arrive on Lumare later in the Cosmere. There's at least two Rosharans and a bunch of Scadrians who showed up on Canticle. Then the plot of Yumi and the Nightmare Painter relies on a plot point of interstellar travel. All of which are dine without perpendicularities and I don't think my list is exhaustive. I know Scadrials space travel is elaborated on in Isles of the Emberdark. And if you're going somewhere like First of the Sun, not going through the perpendicularity may he easier. 1
Nitpicking Posted January 19, 2025 Posted January 19, 2025 59 minutes ago, RefusesToElaborate said: Hide contents The Night Brigade is made up of Threnodites on an interstellar ship, and seems to be capable of landing. More than that, people from Threnody have somehow managed to leave Threnody and end up on Canticle. Also the backstory to Threnody seems to involve somehow arriving there from another world. There's also the Iriali who seem to be able to, as a culture travel between worlds and seem to arrive on Lumare later in the Cosmere. There's at least two Rosharans and a bunch of Scadrians who showed up on Canticle. Then the plot of Yumi and the Nightmare Painter relies on a plot point of interstellar travel. All of which are dine without perpendicularities and I don't think my list is exhaustive. I know Scadrials space travel is elaborated on in Isles of the Emberdark. And if you're going somewhere like First of the Sun, not going through the perpendicularity may he easier. I was using the present tense, meaning the time of WaT, when the Night Brigade doesn't exist yet, centuries before Yumi and Sunlit Man. It is not impossible to visit non-Shard-resident worlds at this time, but it's difficult.
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