Did book 5 affect your feelings of the whole series?

[The Cosmere Unaware]

Unfortunately, and as much as I try to separate it from the rest, it did rather negatively. I was planning another reread but this took the wind out my sails. 

[christianrapper]

On 12/31/2024 at 12:19 AM, Soccorro said:

I also didn’t like Hoid chapter. I was shocked when I read the end of Dalinar v Taravangian confrontation because Dalinar’s actions were nonsensical and then I got Hoid chapter where BS spoon feeds Dalinar’s so-called genius plan to readers through Hoid and tries to convince me that it was right decision to make. When the plan is impossible to understand without author’s far fetched explanation I don’t know what to say

I don’t think that Dalinar’s plan was that complicated. We saw Jasnah literally suggest it herself.  I also don’t get how releasing Todium when he is super uber powerful is somehow a genius plan, but releasing him earlier and much weaker was a danger to the Cosmere. This book was just so contrived to make Taravamgian a Cosmere level threat that it nearly ruined it imo. I could see if Taravangian had arranged any of these things. He didn’t. Sanderson just had all the main characters except Adolin act like morons. I agree. That Hoid chapter was just pure exposition for explaining how genius Dalinar’s plan is. 

[Through the Living Wrath he/him]

48 minutes ago, christianrapper said:

I don’t think that Dalinar’s plan was that complicated. We saw Jasnah literally suggest it herself.  I also don’t get how releasing Todium when he is super uber powerful is somehow a genius plan, but releasing him earlier and much weaker was a danger to the Cosmere. This book was just so contrived to make Taravamgian a Cosmere level threat that it nearly ruined it imo. I could see if Taravangian had arranged any of these things. He didn’t. Sanderson just had all the main characters except Adolin act like morons. I agree. That Hoid chapter was just pure exposition for explaining how genius Dalinar’s plan is. 

Releasing him earlier was bad because Rayse already knew how to use the Shard, he knew it’s nuances and limitations and that made him that much more dangerous.

What most of the characters didn’t realize - and what took a while for Wit to realize - is that Taravangian doesn’t. So giving him time trapped in one place is a move to his favor. Instead of the isolation on Roshar being a means of postponing the problem, it is allowing a weakened opponent to gain his bearings and prepare without the interference of others.

The Shards also cannot rely on the deal Honor made with Odium to remain bound, and now that he has two Shards, they are forced to deal with the problem. Even though two shards is stronger than one, against the however many others, it wouldn’t make that much of a difference.

Two Shards isn’t actually that powerful comparatively. What’s infinity times two? All it means is the need an extra Shard to deal with him.

Also, Honor. Honor is changing. It is slowly shifting from Oaths, to Adolin’s definition of promises. It is becoming good, which will also help in the fight.

Finally, Retribution has no problem combining with other Shards. Sure, the two current Shards might not fight, but what happens if he combines with a Shard like Harmony?

[boonboon]

15 minutes ago, SpiritOfWrath said:

Also, Honor. Honor is changing. It is slowly shifting from Oaths, to Adolin’s definition of promises.

Roshar is doomed.

[JDM]

Yeah. It took it from a 10/10 to a 12/10. 
 

He took an obscenely large scale epic and made the whole thing feel small with the new scope he opened it up to. It made Ghostbloods even more anticipated, and the possibilities for the second half of Stormlight and the wider Cosmere feel endless. All while increasing the already large number of deep, complex characters that I care about and guiding several through very important personal growth.

Mistborn are good, Stormlight was very good. Wind and Truth turned it from a masterpiece into the masterpiece. 

[Soccorro]

28 minutes ago, boonboon said:

Roshar is doomed.

Nah. Adolin’s variation or Honour will become the Shard of Plot Armor. People on Roshar will stop dying

[Aeshdan he/him]

On 12/31/2024 at 11:48 AM, Nitpicking said:

You raise a good point. It probably isn't possible to judge this book fairly for 20 years or so . (My prediction is that the SA won't finish for 20 years.)

I agree, I think a big part of the problem with judging Book 5 is that we haven't yet seen how the second half of the story plays out. We don't know what is going to happen to Roshar in the ten-year time skip, we don't know how other characters (and in particular the other Shards) are going to react to Retribution's ascendancy, and so forth. For all we know, the message of the second half will be that Dalinar was, at the last, a coward who was unwilling to risk casualties to stop an evil that needed to be stopped, and so ended up squandering all the sacrifices that people made in the first half. I don't think that's particularly likely to be Sanderson's take, but it would still arguably be a viable message.

In Lord of the Rings, our judgement of Gandalf's and the Fellowship's actions must inevitably be shaded by the fact that we know that they won, that in the end Gandalf's gambit paid off. It's difficult to answer the question "If the Quest had failed and Sauron had reclaimed the ring, would we still say that Gandalf and the Fellowship had made the best choices they could?" with complete objectivity. By the same notion, if Sanderson wants to really convince us that Dalinar made the right choice, he's going to have to use future books (both Stormlight and possibly non-Stormlight) to do it. Only once we have books 6-10 (or at the very least book 6) will we be able to properly judge book 5.

[christianrapper]

9 hours ago, Soccorro said:

Nah. Adolin’s variation or Honour will become the Shard of Plot Armor. People on Roshar will stop dying

I wouldn’t mind that. He can take that plot amor shard from Taravangian. He got more plot armor than all the heroes put together. 

[Forts Board]

I liked the book. And to be honest, i think that Dalinar's move really was a masterstroke. For one, Brandon needed to resolve Dalinar's character arc. Check, in a really cool way. For two, Dalinar set in motion both a trap for Taravangian- and also he got things in order for Honor to turn on its holder at just the right moment. I can't wait to see what happens. 

[Aon Tia she/her]

On 12/31/2024 at 6:42 PM, christianrapper said:

Taravangian didn’t do anything. He only was able to choose Gav because Dalinar went to the spiritual realm

I think that Todium had been working on Gav for a while, even before he went to the SR. Gav was awake and was having nightmares! He was probably going to get him as his champion either way. 

On 12/31/2024 at 6:42 PM, christianrapper said:

for what eventually turned out to be absolutely no reason.  

He went to SR and learnt a great lot about the history of Roshar, from visions, from Tanavast, He realised that Odium can not be defeated through this contest, it is not possible to defeat a shard of hatred and all bad emotions by fighting him as the suffering and pain and hatred war causes, only makes the shard Odium more happy! 

While Honor, heralds, Knights Radiants, fused, singers and even the vessel of Odium are suffering from the prolonged war, this makes the power of Odium have a gala time! 

Through Tanavast pov, he learnt that there is very little he can do, even after holding Honor, that will even make a dent to Odium. He can frustrate its vessel but then Odium will change its vessel. In the meanwhile the Rosharans will just keep on struggling. 

He never would have given up the power, if he had not gone to the SR. 

It is also possible that Cultivation manipulated him into going to SR, give up Honor and look, now she is also free of Roshar and far safer from Odium now that she is run away!

 

On 12/31/2024 at 6:42 PM, christianrapper said:

After book 4 he was in a position of strength. In 10 days he managed to squander all of that away.

Yes because the power changed hands to Taravangian! it is not Dalinar's fault. And this just proves that Tanavast's plan of contest of champions was faulty and Dalinar should never have forced it. Dalinar did realise that the contest favours T'Odium and was a bad plan to begin with. So, he was left with no other option but to do what he did. 

 

[JDM]

Was he even in a position of strength? A 1000 year delay isn't nothing. But it's also not a solution. 
 

He didn't turn Odium into a threat to the Cosmere. It already was, and it was already planning to send agents out, "personally" contained or not. By controlling the timing and giving the other shards incentive to cooperate, rather than letting Taravangian sit comfortably and acclimate to the power, he gave everyone else the best chance to actually eliminate the threat. There's a reason Harmony is constrained, and it's more than Sazed valuing free will. When the intent of the Shards aren't aligned, it's difficult for the holder to take strong action. Honor wants to be more, and becoming more will constrain Odium more than being tied to Roshar ever did. 
 

He also, on multiple levels, fulfilled the calling he's been given through the entire arc. "Unite them." He directly united Odium and Honor. He created a path for the rest of the shards to unite as allies against the threat it poses. 

----

Ignoring all the debates about "the right move", though, it's a story. We want to be at the front lines, and see the inflection points of history. Sanderson just turned all the prior books into the pre-history for an epic war for the Cosmere, a war of Gods, with some very clear understanding of how powerful Gods can be from his prior works in the Cosmere.

Edited January 2, 2025 by JDM

[Soccorro]

13 hours ago, christianrapper said:

I wouldn’t mind that. He can take that plot amor shard from Taravangian. He got more plot armor than all the heroes put together. 

Taravangian has Lobotomy Shard. It drains brain cells of everyone around Taravangian so he can look like a genius in comparison

[JohnnyKaizen he/him]

On 12/30/2024 at 7:26 AM, christianrapper said:

I don’t think that Dalinar got the best of Taravangian. He just broke his oaths and released Odium. The only reason that the other shards ignored him is because he was stuck on Roshar. That was explicitly written in the books. He could have released him without giving him Honor. Taravangian still would have had to flee once he was released. Honor didn’t immediately leave Tanovast when he betrayed Bah Ado Mishram. He could have held one Honor until after Todium fled the planet. He just made Todium twice as strong. We literally see Jasnah suggest that Dalinar release Odium in a vision in that debate. This ending just didn’t make any sense to me. I don’t mind Todium winning but at least make him earn it. Have him out smart Dalimar. Don’t have Dalimar act like a complete idiot. Sanderson took all the good guys most powerful players off the board so that Todium can win. The more I think about it the worst this book gets to me. 

Edit: I'm going to write all my thoughts of this thread here to avoid double posting**

I pretty much disagree with everything here. Everything Taravangian was going to do as Odium will still be done now, with the exception of him showing up somewhere in person. None of the other Shards cared what he was doing as long as he was "trapped." Now they big care, and will absolutely act against him. Taravangian, specifically, is in serious danger of Odium abandoning him for several reasons, not least of which is Kharbranth. Honor is their own person now, but they don't have the context to see nuance in their Intent. Dalinar set them free and charged them to watch and learn. Honor will 100% leave Taravangian in the future, a wiser and more full Honor. Honor even offered to go back to Dalinar, if he'd do what Honor *thought* it wanted him to do. At this point, I am as certain as I can be (while totally accepting I have been wrong many times, and will be again many times) that Taravangian will end up without a shard, and that Odium will either be changed by Honor, or merged with other Shards to stop it from trying to bring the Cosmere to destruction through endless hatred. Dalinar has, long-term, probably saved the whole Cosmere, and I'm here for it.

Also, Retribution is now 70+ years behind his rivals. Well, he the Shard probably isn't, but his mortal subjects are. The rest of the Shards get to move things into place before the Rosharans can move out into the Cosmere as a whole, and that's amazing. Though, I don't know that Honor-Dalinar knew that or not with his expanded capacity.

As to did this book change my feelings on the SA. Nope. I loved Wind and Truth. I did have some minor issues with it, but nothing serious/major. I loved it, and I'm super excited for the next few years of other stories.

Also, I don't believe brandon when he says he won't get back to Stormlight stuff for--8-10 years I think he said?--because I don't think he's physically capable of going that long without writing something about Roshar. I don't know that we'll get to read any of that before next decade or not, but I don't think he can go that long, based on...well...him being Brandon and writing 5 "secret books" because he felt like it.

Edited January 2, 2025 by JohnnyKaizen

[MagicMaggot]

1 hour ago, JohnnyKaizen said:

At this point, I am as certain as I can be (while totally accepting I have been wrong many times, and will be again many times) that Taravangian will end up without a shard, and that Odium will either be changed by Honor, or merged with other Shards to stop it from trying to bring the Cosmere to destruction through endless hatred.

Yeah, that Retribution isn't going to be stable with Honor's budding conscience pulling on one side, and Mishram on the other, with a lot of attentive Shards around, who might not come to punch Taravangian in the face, but who will certainly be quite helpful in making sure that he has ample opportunity to antagonize one or both of his powers, seems a bit obvious. Maybe too obvious and straightforward. 

But next to merging with other Shards I'd add forceful splintering (maybe through human action, looking at the scientific progress on Roshar and Scadrial), and reeducation of the Shard, like what might be happening with little Honor here, to the list of possible long-term-solutions to the rogue shard problem. Whatever a less odious version of Odium could look like...

[Nitpicking]

3 hours ago, MagicMaggot said:

Yeah, that Retribution isn't going to be stable with Honor's budding conscience pulling on one side, and Mishram on the other, with a lot of attentive Shards around, who might not come to punch Taravangian in the face, but who will certainly be quite helpful in making sure that he has ample opportunity to antagonize one or both of his powers, seems a bit obvious. Maybe too obvious and straightforward. 

But next to merging with other Shards I'd add forceful splintering (maybe through human action, looking at the scientific progress on Roshar and Scadrial), and reeducation of the Shard, like what might be happening with little Honor here, to the list of possible long-term-solutions to the rogue shard problem. Whatever a less odious version of Odium could look like...

Brandon can write it several ways. Here's one I'm sure he won't use, but makes sense in the world.

1)Sazed releases Ruin to Kelsier. (I'm assuming a Cognitive Shadow can be a Vessel.)

2)Honor the sapient Shard splits off from Odium and rejects Taravangian.

3)The other Shards trick KelRuin and TaraVodium into fighting.

4)When they're both weakened, just like Devotion and Dominion were, a combat-effective Shard like Valor (or Honor! or both) leap in and Splinter them both.

[Aon Tia she/her]

9 hours ago, JohnnyKaizen said:

Also, Retribution is now 70+ years behind his rivals. Well, he the Shard probably isn't, but his mortal subjects are. The rest of the Shards get to move things into place before the Rosharans can move out into the Cosmere as a whole, and that's amazing. Though, I don't know that Honor-Dalinar knew that or not with his expanded capacity.

That is a very interesting observation! This time warp has put Roshar way back in terms of technology development where earlier they were poised to get at par with Scadrial. 

9 hours ago, JohnnyKaizen said:

As to did this book change my feelings on the SA. Nope. I loved Wind and Truth. I did have some minor issues with it, but nothing serious/major. I loved it, and I'm super excited for the next few years of other stories.

Same here. I might have a few issues with the book, but it was extremely difficult to provide an ending that would be as awesome as this one is. There were bound to be things we have predicted along the way and a few that I got spoiled on following the fan theories. But there is no predicting anything by anyone what the book 6 is going to be like. 

He has changed everything about Roshar and it takes guts to do that! I loved Wind and Truth!

[BinarySecond]

I'm fully on board with Retribution suffering from a Discord-style problem in future. Where the nature of the Shards begin to cause issues for the vessel and their decision making.

I personally believe that destroying Kharbranth is a full violation of the oath Taravangian and Rayse made.

As JohnnyKaizen wrote Taravangian has got some serious issues in store for him. Honour is evolving and Dalinar just gave it a shove in the right desired direction.

Taravangian has already noted that he's got to be exceptionally careful with making Oaths now; which I think will severely limit his willingness to enter into deals like Solo-Odium (SolOdium?) did in the past.

I think that means we're not likely to see any more Fused or Knight Radiant style options appear. I remember Rayse used to dangle becoming Fused as a reward, I get the sense that he wouldn't be able to lie like that anymore.

Edited January 3, 2025 by BinarySecond

[christianrapper]

On 1/1/2025 at 1:41 PM, Aeshdan said:

I agree, I think a big part of the problem with judging Book 5 is that we haven't yet seen how the second half of the story plays out. We don't know what is going to happen to Roshar in the ten-year time skip, we don't know how other characters (and in particular the other Shards) are going to react to Retribution's ascendancy, and so forth. For all we know, the message of the second half will be that Dalinar was, at the last, a coward who was unwilling to risk casualties to stop an evil that needed to be stopped, and so ended up squandering all the sacrifices that people made in the first half. I don't think that's particularly likely to be Sanderson's take, but it would still arguably be a viable message.

In Lord of the Rings, our judgement of Gandalf's and the Fellowship's actions must inevitably be shaded by the fact that we know that they won, that in the end Gandalf's gambit paid off. It's difficult to answer the question "If the Quest had failed and Sauron had reclaimed the ring, would we still say that Gandalf and the Fellowship had made the best choices they could?" with complete objectivity. By the same notion, if Sanderson wants to really convince us that Dalinar made the right choice, he's going to have to use future books (both Stormlight and possibly non-Stormlight) to do it. Only once we have books 6-10 (or at the very least book 6) will we be able to properly judge book 5.

We can definitely judge book 5 by the characters’ actions and choices. We can also judge it for the writing quality. Dalinar’s whole trip to the spiritual realm was pointless. He learned nothing that helped him fight Todium. He could have just gotten all that information from Hoid. His trip only let Todium get Gav and make deals with Dainar’s allies. Cultivation also could have just given him the exact same visions the way the Stormfather did in books 1-4.  Dalinar could have lived through all those events in a second if Cultivation had just given him the visions instead of suggesting that he go to the spiritual realm. 

[Ripheus23]

3 hours ago, christianrapper said:

We can definitely judge book 5 by the characters’ actions and choices. We can also judge it for the writing quality. Dalinar’s whole trip to the spiritual realm was pointless. He learned nothing that helped him fight Todium. He could have just gotten all that information from Hoid. His trip only let Todium get Gav and make deals with Dainar’s allies. Cultivation also could have just given him the exact same visions the way the Stormfather did in books 1-4.  Dalinar could have lived through all those events in a second if Cultivation had just given him the visions instead of suggesting that he go to the spiritual realm. 

Wouldn't it have been pointless for Cultivation to give Dalinar the relevant visions if he could have just gone to the Spiritual Realm? Wouldn't it have been pointless for Odium to choose Gavinor as his champion at all if he had been able to choose someone else instead? Anything can be made to seem pointless, or better "not uniquely necessary," when the full range of alternative possibilities is in view. If Dalinar had kept the Shard of Honor, we'd be complaining about how the scene was too much like when Vin took up Preservation, and so on and on. No matter what Dalinar did, he would either have a useless Shard, or one that hated him and abandoned him regardless then. I think something we're supposed to get from the spirituality of the scene is that Honor, both as Tanavast before and an unhinged Shard now, is part of Roshar's problem. Odium isn't the sole "Big Bad," Honor is too, in its own way, and all the righteous panic of the Stormfather before, and the sorrow of Tanavast in the Spiritual Realm, was a "red herring" to make the Rosharan situation out to be like the Scadrian one, with a "good" Shard and an "evil" Shard opposed one to the other.

I mean, imagine if Odium didn't take up Honor, and Honor abandoned Dalinar, and was just evolving by itself. The corruption internal to it, and possibly all the Shards, would still have proceeded apace. Like all the other Shards and their Vessels seemingly will, it would "go insane" and continue to commit enormous sins, just like Tanavast did. Remember, the modern Knights generally felt horrible vicarious guilt on learning about how humanity had been the first of the Voidbringers rather than the singers. And now we know that Tanavast finalized this travesty in the betrayal of BAM. Do you think that either the Storm father or Cultivation would have actually been much inclined to show Dalinar the scene of Honor's key crime, after all? And that's not even taking into account the glaring possibility that the very Shard of Honor was itself created by the murder of Adonalsium, in part by Tanavast, a man who we can well assume had some moral obligations of some kind, to Adonalsium. Maybe he hadn't ever sworn a promise to God, but there's a reason why different Vessels were granted, and accepted, their particular Shards, so I do wonder whether Tanavast, back then, was keen on oaths and vows, or at least some attitude/concept adjacent enough to those to explain why he felt that the Shard of Honor would befit him?

EDIT: and don't get me started on how crazy Tanavast's privilege was. All the Shards are bound by conventions, so he was given indirect authority over one of the major limitations on the Shards' powers. He settled on Roshar, a world that would hold Dawnshards and had been born of the especial providence of Adonalsium. He had a dragon-goddess for a wife, and through them there exists a being which is itself like a child di-Shard, the Sibling. I mean, they have their own Light, and having a signature Light is one of the emblems of being a Shard, so in a way, the Sibling has a pocket of di-Shardic power. Honor was the key aggressive figure in Odium's imprisonment in the Rosharan system. If any of the Shards had a certain "priority" over the others, at all, as such, it would have been him, but so in the form of a murderer and possibly weak-willed hypocrite who would be willing to betray the people of Roshar again and again in so many different ways. How many people died, really, because of what Rayse did before he got to Roshar, vs. because of what Tanavast did as usurper-lord of Roshar?

Edited January 3, 2025 by Ripheus23

[christianrapper]

On 1/3/2025 at 6:16 PM, Ripheus23 said:

Wouldn't it have been pointless for Cultivation to give Dalinar the relevant visions if he could have just gone to the Spiritual Realm? Wouldn't it have been pointless for Odium to choose Gavinor as his champion at all if he had been able to choose someone else instead? Anything can be made to seem pointless, or better "not uniquely necessary," when the full range of alternative possibilities is in view. If Dalinar had kept the Shard of Honor, we'd be complaining about how the scene was too much like when Vin took up Preservation, and so on and on. No matter what Dalinar did, he would either have a useless Shard, or one that hated him and abandoned him regardless then. I think something we're supposed to get from the spirituality of the scene is that Honor, both as Tanavast before and an unhinged Shard now, is part of Roshar's problem. Odium isn't the sole "Big Bad," Honor is too, in its own way, and all the righteous panic of the Stormfather before, and the sorrow of Tanavast in the Spiritual Realm, was a "red herring" to make the Rosharan situation out to be like the Scadrian one, with a "good" Shard and an "evil" Shard opposed one to the other.

I mean, imagine if Odium didn't take up Honor, and Honor abandoned Dalinar, and was just evolving by itself. The corruption internal to it, and possibly all the Shards, would still have proceeded apace. Like all the other Shards and their Vessels seemingly will, it would "go insane" and continue to commit enormous sins, just like Tanavast did. Remember, the modern Knights generally felt horrible vicarious guilt on learning about how humanity had been the first of the Voidbringers rather than the singers. And now we know that Tanavast finalized this travesty in the betrayal of BAM. Do you think that either the Storm father or Cultivation would have actually been much inclined to show Dalinar the scene of Honor's key crime, after all? And that's not even taking into account the glaring possibility that the very Shard of Honor was itself created by the murder of Adonalsium, in part by Tanavast, a man who we can well assume had some moral obligations of some kind, to Adonalsium. Maybe he hadn't ever sworn a promise to God, but there's a reason why different Vessels were granted, and accepted, their particular Shards, so I do wonder whether Tanavast, back then, was keen on oaths and vows, or at least some attitude/concept adjacent enough to those to explain why he felt that the Shard of Honor would befit him?

EDIT: and don't get me started on how crazy Tanavast's privilege was. All the Shards are bound by conventions, so he was given indirect authority over one of the major limitations on the Shards' powers. He settled on Roshar, a world that would hold Dawnshards and had been born of the especial providence of Adonalsium. He had a dragon-goddess for a wife, and through them there exists a being which is itself like a child di-Shard, the Sibling. I mean, they have their own Light, and having a signature Light is one of the emblems of being a Shard, so in a way, the Sibling has a pocket of di-Shardic power. Honor was the key aggressive figure in Odium's imprisonment in the Rosharan system. If any of the Shards had a certain "priority" over the others, at all, as such, it would have been him, but so in the form of a murderer and possibly weak-willed hypocrite who would be willing to betray the people of Roshar again and again in so many different ways. How many people died, really, because of what Rayse did before he got to Roshar, vs. because of what Tanavast did as usurper-lord of Roshar?

Cultivation was the one who originally suggested that he visit the spiritual realm. Instead of doing that, she could have just given him the visions herself. He didn’t have to go there at all. 

[Ripheus23]

Just now, christianrapper said:

Cultivation was the one who originally suggested that he visit the spiritual realm. Instead of doing that, she could have just given him the visions herself. He didn’t have to go there at all. 

But I mean that if he could go there, he wouldn't need the visions at all, either. There were obvious risks in going to the SR, but under the elaborate and impossible-to-navigate circumstances at that point, something would have been risky about giving him visions, too. More importantly, Mishram was trapped in the SR so there had to be a way to get to the point where they found her. I don't remember if Dalinar and Navani were thinking about that at all, like had they even been told??? but Cultivation had to allow Shallan to get to the SR, along with Rlain and Renarin, to free Mishram.

They wouldn't have been able to get to the SR if not for two Bondsmiths working together, along with Hoid's help, etc., yeah? And Cultivation would've known all that? And wanted Mishram to be set free, after all? Or, on some level, she knew that would help.

[OoklaApologist She/her]

On 12/31/2024 at 7:12 AM, christianrapper said:

He goes to the spiritual realm which deprives his armies of stormlight.

He doesn’t even consider  that he’s depriving Sigzil’s army of Stormlight

[Nitpicking]

4 hours ago, Ripheus23 said:

But I mean that if he could go there, he wouldn't need the visions at all, either.

The visions do take place in the Spiritual Realm. That's how Rayse was able to tear them apart, once he finally noticed them. You can conceal stuff in the SR, at least for a while, like Retribution is doing with Fake Kharbranth. If/when the other shards notice it ... it may not exist much longer.

[Raven Wilder]

4 hours ago, KelsierApologist said:

He doesn’t even consider  that he’s depriving Sigzil’s army of Stormlight

Well, Dalinar was originally planning just a sort, exploratory jaunt, to get used to the Spiritual Realm, until Mraize wrecked things. Presumably, if things had gone according to plan, once returning from that first trip, Dalinar and Navani would then have worked through the logistics of keeping things running with one or both Bondsmiths absent.

[alder24]

18 hours ago, christianrapper said:

Cultivation was the one who originally suggested that he visit the spiritual realm. Instead of doing that, she could have just given him the visions herself. He didn’t have to go there at all. 

The visions are the essence of Honor, not Cultivation. She can't give him the visions that would make him experience everything from Tanavast's point of view and understand Honor, which was the whole point of this trip to the SR. And because the only person who could have shown him those visions directly - the Stormfather - was unwilling to cooperate, he had to go there on his own. WaT ch 16:

Quote

Cultivation told me, Dalinar said, that Honor’s power still exists in the Spiritual Realm—that it is the substance of the visions I’ve seen. She says I should seek answers there.