Unresolved questions for the second half

[Fallen_Ash]

29 minutes ago, RedBlue said:

Epicanthic folds are genetic. People have them because they have them.

It's just interesting to me that no one in Shinovar has them, but everyone in the other kingdoms appears to. It's probably just because there's been no genetic mixing for thousands of years, but I've learned not to take anything for granted. 

29 minutes ago, RedBlue said:

Hoid wanted to make sure Odium stayed contained on Roshar. Now that the situation has changed, I expect he will want to pursue some way of removing Retribution from play entirely.

In her letter, Endowment noted that Hoid takes an interest in "worlds where legends abound of the dead being raised" (chp. 66). Other than keeping Odium bound, what else is he planning or seeking? 

29 minutes ago, RedBlue said:

This is a guess, but from what I remember of his previous appearance, he probably went to the Nightwatcher and got a boon/curse situation.

I think you're right, but is there something we're supposed to take away from this interlude, or something that will be revisited? Axies the Collector has always been a fringe character seemingly unrelated to everything else, but there's gotta be a reason we keep seeing him. 

29 minutes ago, RedBlue said:

I’m not sure Fen does feel stupid.

No you're right, she had no other choice and it was the best option at the time, but now that the Everstorm is covering everything and there's no Stormlight and no sunlight I wonder if she's already figured out she was tricked. 

Edited December 11, 2024 by Fallen_Ash

[RedBlue]

20 minutes ago, robardin said:

But did she bet on living under a constant, never-ending if low key Everstorm and never seeing the sun? Can they still trade with Azir or make literal "day trips" there?

What will "trade" mean between all the Rosharan kingdoms under Retribution's control now, anyway? Aren't they all going to be dominated/run by singers, at the high level?

I think Fen would argue that she chose a bad situation to avoid a worse one.

She would have negotiated favourable terms with Odium to ensure Thaylens will have decent living conditions, with some basic rights and protections (eg they can’t be drafted into the military). I don’t know what the Thaylen economy will look like going forward, but it won’t collapse. And yes, Fen ultimately answers to Retribution now, they live in permanent darkness and their contact with free countries will likely be cut off, but Thaylen people won’t starve.

Personally, I think Fen made a mistake, because I don’t trust Taravangian not to find a way to exploit them. But I think Fen made a totally reasonable call, not a stupid one.

[teknopathetic he/him]

1 hour ago, RedBlue said:

 

 

I’m not sure Fen does feel stupid. There are valid reasons for her to want to be in Retribution’s empire right now, even though we disagree with her. Taravangian had a point about Thaylenah relying on trading via sea routes, and him controlling the coast.

If anything, it might even be good for team Jasnah. There is now a nation on Roshar that cannot be forced to fight either through draft or economic persecution. That is a great place to foment rebellion from within and might present a pivot point to work from. As well, Retribution has weakened himself by creating an oath that might one day be exploited.

Edited December 11, 2024 by teknopathetic

[FollowYourMuse she/her]

On 12/9/2024 at 2:44 PM, who_slew_aicirtap said:

More of a meta question, but who do we think he's referencing in this WOB?

 

On 12/9/2024 at 2:47 PM, robardin said:

I agree with another poster that he probably "cancelled" Taravangian actually being able to destroy his family and Adrotagia along with Kharbranth, and him putting them into a vision bubble in the Spiritual Realm as living humans in the semi-epilogue represents that "character's takeback" from the original plotline.

I had not thought of Taravangian's ploy with Karbranth and the Spiritual Realm, that could be it. 
My initial thought was Dalinar, and how it all played out, and that is why we now have a weird spren Blackthorn dude for the back half, instead of Dalinar himself as the Blackthorne. 
 

[+robardin he/him]

36 minutes ago, teknopathetic said:

If anything, it might even be good for team Jasnah. There is now a nation on Roshar that cannot be forced to fight either through draft or economic persecution. That is a great place to foment rebellion from within and might present a pivot point to work from. As well, Retribution has weakened himself by creating an oath that might one day be exploited.

I'd be really careful about that, if I were her.

Retribution is free from the bonds that had forbidden either Odium or Honor from directly affecting people on Roshar... Rebelling would definitely be breaking the contract they formed with Odium that grants them protections. Not only could/would they be subject to being devastated by Fused-led singers, he could just SMITE THEM AT WILL.

And as Fen well knows from his display of playing back at will Jasnah's actions and one-line comments in meetings she thought to be hidden or private going back for years, she's dealing with a subtle, crafty, and cruel-in-a-worse-way-than-a-bully god now in Taravangian/Retribution, who as far as she can tell, Knows All, Sees All.

I mean, maybe she could plot carefully in an aluminum-lined room to present one face to Retribution while supporting some secret group working against him in some way...

But I'm assuming any effort based on Roshar itself to Take It Back From Retribution, now the sole Shard on the planet and a dual one at that, would have to be centered in Urithiru (The Crystal Palace), Azimir (The Land that Sun Remembered), and/or Narak (Listenerland).

[gas_and_lies]

What happened to Rock and his family? I was sad we didn't see him at all in this book.

[morcey2]

On 12/9/2024 at 9:22 AM, robardin said:

But their minds are in the SR in a "vision" of a beach house resort or something (pulled from a memory of Ishar's old timeshare back on good ol' Alaswha before its burning, I guess).

Imagine having a timeshare AND being effectively immortal.  You're never getting out of those ever-increasing maintenance payments. 

[Elite01]

As far as thaylen rebellion goes I agree it seems unlikely they will openly rebel but it will be the best human city as far as rights/independence go. If you sneak non-thaylens into the city to rebel they maybe be able to get assistance such as places to hide or less fused than in other cities. Not as helpful as an open ally but probably a better place to start than a different empire. 

 

And for what its worth Thaylen may be in a better spot than Azir right now. True the weather is worse in Thaylenah but they have allies and can travel and trade.

The people in Azir have freedom and independence but we don't really know how their neighbors will treat them. They won't get attacked because of Retribution's oath but that doesn't guarantee they will trade with them. 

Edited December 12, 2024 by Elite01

[logicless.bt]

On 12/11/2024 at 9:53 AM, Fallen_Ash said:

 

In her letter, Endowment noted that Hoid takes an interest in "worlds where legends abound of the dead being raised" (chp. 66). Other than keeping Odium bound, what else is he planning or seeking?

Brandon once said that Hoid seeks to "return that which once was." It's possible he wants to fully resurrect some random love interest or Jerick or the king or w/e, but I'd put money on him wanting to resurrect Adonalsium.

[neosporin]

On 12/9/2024 at 7:08 AM, Kardenal_13 said:

So I just remembered that Kaladin gets called Child of Tanavast. Did anyone manage to piece together why Stormfather calls him that based on his memory chapters? Or did they explain it and I just missed it?

The Heralds are a piece of Honor. At the end it mentions two pieces of Honor splitting off, right around when Syl changed and Kaladin became a Herald.

To me it's as simple as Kaladin was always destined to be a Herald, the Stormfather, who is essentially Tanavast, probably knew it. He is a piece of Honor now as a Herald so he's a son of Tanavast.