Chapters 27 and 28

[+Oltux72 he/him]

11 minutes ago, Wanguu said:

One thing that confounds me is how they have anti-investiture already - It was discovered what, three days ago? and it needs a super-complicated vacuum tube. I don't know how you source that in a few days. The only thing that makes it easier is that you don't need to sing any tones to manufacture the anti-light, just the plate.

It was rediscovered a few days ago. It is possible that the Ghostbloods have records of Zahel's research.

[alder24]

26 minutes ago, Wanguu said:

One thing that confounds me is how they have anti-investiture already - It was discovered what, three days ago? and it needs a super-complicated vacuum tube. I don't know how you source that in a few days. The only thing that makes it easier is that you don't need to sing any tones to manufacture the anti-light, just the plate.

If they were able to spy directly on Dalinar's secret conversation with Hoid that happened a few hours ago, they were able to spy on Navani and steal this knowledge when for example she was explaining it to her scientists or something like that. They have members in important positions in many governments, so it would be very easy for them to get vacuum tubes. I'm not surprised they already have anti-light.

[listerfeend]

3 hours ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

G

3 hours ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

This is exactly it. They saw NONE of this coming. Shallan is by far the biggest threat to their organization and plans, and they just let her walk in. They are somehow able to spy on Hoid / Jasnah / Dalinar / Sibling and Navani while inside the tower but are unable to figure out that Shallan is coming for them. Really? Thats silly. 

hostbloods have infiltrated every aspect of Roshar. They had people whispering to Gavilar for years. Getting a dead blade is not THAT difficult, especially for a group that can surprise the holder with magic they have never seen before. (Felt trapping Kalak). They just need to kill a blade holder. Easy. 

I don't even know why I argued against this point, as was pointed out, they did have Shardbearers in attendance
 

Quote

Iyatil ripped the ballista out of Mraize’s hands. Nearby, the other Ghostbloods were doing themselves credit. When Shallan had pulled similar operations on groups like the Sons of Honor, there had been mass chaos. The Ghostbloods moved with deliberate coordination, spreading out, two summoning Shardblades, others producing conventional weapons.

 

3 hours ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

This is exactly it. They saw NONE of this coming. Shallan is by far the biggest threat to their organization and plans, and they just let her walk in. They are somehow able to spy on Hoid / Jasnah / Dalinar / Sibling and Navani while inside the tower but are unable to figure out that Shallan is coming for them. Really? Thats silly. 

 

The Ghostbloods have basically trapped themselves in this house....with no defenses. As a spy organization, I feel like you should have more precautions then simply setting some white sand at the doorway.

It's very easy to have a plan for someone to come. It's also very easy to miscalculate and underestimate how that person might come in. I really just feel like everyone here has this idea that the Ghostbloods are this all knowing entity, when we've been shown time and again that they aren't even all on the same page with what the plan is. Iyatil has plans that Mraize doesn't seem to either know about or align with, Mraize has plans that Iyatil doesn't fully approve of, and BOTH of them are off script from what Kelsier expects from them. And these are the two "heads" of the organization on Roshar. 

[Slayd_07]

1 minute ago, listerfeend said:

I don't even know why I argued against this point, as was pointed out, they did have Shardbearers in attendance
 

 

It's very easy to have a plan for someone to come. It's also very easy to miscalculate and underestimate how that person might come in. I really just feel like everyone here has this idea that the Ghostbloods are this all knowing entity, when we've been shown time and again that they aren't even all on the same page with what the plan is. Iyatil has plans that Mraize doesn't seem to either know about or align with, Mraize has plans that Iyatil doesn't fully approve of, and BOTH of them are off script from what Kelsier expects from them. And these are the two "heads" of the organization on Roshar. 

Exactly! Plus, we've seen repeatedly that the Ghostbloods are powerful because they have an incredible amount of knowledge about realmatics and the cosmere, not because of extreme martial prowess. In TLM, the agents they have on hand are probably some of the best they have - the Ghostbloods are more focused on protecting Scadrial than anywhere else - and they're still only decently powerful on the scale of the Cosmere. There was never an implication that the Ghostbloods had heavy-hitting Investiture users that could compete with a 4th-oath Radiant. 

[Isilel]

So, it occurred to me that in RoW when they put anti-voidlight into the dagger, it came into contact with and in fact was conducted through metallic raysium... and nothing happened! Which tells me that anti-stormlight shouldn't be able to harm Radiant spren in metallic form either. Luckily, since otherwise the already disadvantaged Coalition would have been completely SOL in the run-up to the Contest. Not that most of the Radiants aren't in terrible danger anyway, but now at least they'll be forewarned. It won't be a hideous surprise.

It is also a bit odd that in TLM the Ghostbloods on Scadrial talk about Roshar being out of bounds to them, but Iyatil still being there and still a member... and something about being unable to count on Shard perpendicularities for travel. But judging from what we have seen in the current chapters, Iyatil should be able to ferry  people between Shadesmar and the Physical at will? In places where it is possible, of course.

[Display-Names-Are-Stupid]

1 hour ago, Isilel said:

So, it occurred to me that in RoW when they put anti-voidlight into the dagger, it came into contact with and in fact was conducted through metallic raysium... and nothing happened! Which tells me that anti-stormlight shouldn't be able to harm Radiant spren in metallic form either. Luckily, since otherwise the already disadvantaged Coalition would have been completely SOL in the run-up to the Contest. Not that most of the Radiants aren't in terrible danger anyway, but now at least they'll be forewarned. It won't be a hideous surprise.

It is also a bit odd that in TLM the Ghostbloods on Scadrial talk about Roshar being out of bounds to them, but Iyatil still being there and still a member... and something about being unable to count on Shard perpendicularities for travel. But judging from what we have seen in the current chapters, Iyatil should be able to ferry  people between Shadesmar and the Physical at will? In places where it is possible, of course.

TLM takes place after Stormlight 5, so we will find out whatever has blocked them from Roshar/happened to Iyatil in this book  

[Wanguu He/Him]

1 hour ago, Isilel said:

It is also a bit odd that in TLM the Ghostbloods on Scadrial talk about Roshar being out of bounds to them, but Iyatil still being there and still a member... and something about being unable to count on Shard perpendicularities for travel. But judging from what we have seen in the current chapters, Iyatil should be able to ferry  people between Shadesmar and the Physical at will? In places where it is possible, of course.

This is a good point. If it's anything like Jasnah has described, it's much easier to enter the cognitive realm then it is to leave (as to why, I'm not exactly sure). My guess is that something goes on with the Contest that has something like the Everstorm cover everything. I believe that Ulim states that it is hard to get to Braize because of the everstorm sitting in the cognitive realm (could be wrong here)

[RedBlue]

It appears to me that the Rosharan chapter of the Ghostbloods has gone rogue. Iyatil and Mraize pay lip service to Kelsier and report to him while it’s convenient for them to do so, but they don’t truly support him, work for him, use his methods, or believe in his goals. Kelsier’s Ghostbloods and Iyatil’s Ghostbloods are almost different organisations, and it’s just a matter of time until they fracture apart.

[bmcclure7]

9 hours ago, alder24 said:

The difference is that Kel and his crew made every possible precaution to avoid being caught. They had Seekers, Smokers and Tineyes guarding their hideouts, two Mistborn, several Thugs with trained troops and one Feruchemist ready to defend their crew. In comparison Ghostboolds had some sand and a secret tunnel - that's it. Where is this "most powerful organization in Cosmere" Mraize was talking about? Not on Roshar apparently. Everything went way too smoothly for Shallan, so much so that it seemed like it was foreshadowing some twist, but there was nothing, Ghostbloods were just spectacularly incompetent. That's why it's dissapointing. 

 

Why? Just why? Why not just burn Lerasium themselves to gain powers? That's just a bad idea - use primer cubes charged with aluminum instead. Cheeper, simpler, reliable and more effective. And during WaT Era 2 is still in the future. Kel has no Lerasium and probably won't have Lerasium even after TLM.

1. "most powerful organization in Cosmere" I not sure they can trust what Mraize says.

2. They didnt just have a secret tunnel they had multiple look outs a guard Four shard bearers at least two Radiant and a radiant killer weapon. additionally Kel had to fear the Lord Ruler and the Steel ministry Nothing Like that is hunting the Ghost bloods so it isnt surprising that there security is lax.

3. Shallan was almost killed and nearly every Ghostblood escaped, She didnt uncover any of there secrets not exactly a win.

[Sedside she/her]

3 hours ago, bmcclure7 said:

1. "most powerful organization in Cosmere" I not sure they can trust what Mraize says.

This is how it was portrayed, not only what Mraize says.

3 hours ago, bmcclure7 said:

2. They didnt just have a secret tunnel they had multiple look outs a guard Four shard bearers at least two Radiant and a radiant killer weapon. additionally Kel had to fear the Lord Ruler and the Steel ministry Nothing Like that is hunting the Ghost bloods so it isnt surprising that there security is lax.

And all of this was handwaved with Shallan's armor.

3 hours ago, bmcclure7 said:

3. Shallan was almost killed and nearly every Ghostblood escaped, She didnt uncover any of there secrets not exactly a win.

I'm sorry, but it doesn't read to me as "Shallan was almost killed". It reads to me as "she felt some pain and wrongness from anti-light". I didn't feel any sense of danger for her in this chapter, she reads like fully in control, she knows how to react to anti-light, she talks to Mraize, and GBs do nothing against her, they just run away in terror.

[JustQuestin2004 he/him]

45 minutes ago, Sedside said:

I'm sorry, but it doesn't read to me as "Shallan was almost killed". It reads to me as "she felt some pain and wrongness from anti-light". I didn't feel any sense of danger for her in this chapter, she reads like fully in control, she knows how to react to anti-light, she talks to Mraize, and GBs do nothing against her, they just run away in terror.

She went from, double Fourth Ideal Radiant with Shardplate, Blade and Shield along with powerful Lightweaving, to completely powerless unless she wants to explode in just one shot.

Anti-Light is no joke. Iyatil was literally going to stab her with a knife and there Shallan, bereft of her Shards and any Stormlight, was completely defenseless, except Mraize stopped her.

Plus they know that the presence one of the most important Radiants, the First Lightweaver, meant that more were obviously nearby and probably on the way. No one would want to pick a fight with a dozen Third Ideal Radiants in close quarters without some very thorough preparations.

[Sedside she/her]

3 hours ago, JustQuestin2004 said:

She went from, double Fourth Ideal Radiant with Shardplate, Blade and Shield along with powerful Lightweaving, to completely powerless unless she wants to explode in just one shot.

Anti-Light is no joke. Iyatil was literally going to stab her with a knife and there Shallan, bereft of her Shards and any Stormlight, was completely defenseless, except Mraize stopped her.

Plus they know that the presence one of the most important Radiants, the First Lightweaver, meant that more were obviously nearby and probably on the way. No one would want to pick a fight with a dozen Third Ideal Radiants in close quarters without some very thorough preparations.

I understand all of this, but I wrote in my post that I didn't have the sense of danger for what was happening. If I have to think of what could have happened, make some calculations in my mind and apply logic to my reading experience, it doesn't help me feel any emotions about what I am reading. What I read in this chapter felt to me as cheap and easy, and no explanations can change what I feel. It was supposed to be something very dangerous and life-threatening, but it didn't read like it to me at all. Not even close to the infiltration of Amaram's house, Rockfall or Kholinar palace.

[BinarySecond]

4 hours ago, JustQuestin2004 said:

She went from, double Fourth Ideal Radiant with Shardplate, Blade and Shield along with powerful Lightweaving, to completely powerless unless she wants to explode in just one shot.

Anti-Light is no joke. Iyatil was literally going to stab her with a knife and there Shallan, bereft of her Shards and any Stormlight, was completely defenseless, except Mraize stopped her.

Plus they know that the presence one of the most important Radiants, the First Lightweaver, meant that more were obviously nearby and probably on the way. No one would want to pick a fight with a dozen Third Ideal Radiants in close quarters without some very thorough preparations.

She was still wearing all her armour except for the section she dismissed to take the blow herself.

I would agree she was not almost killed.

[JustQuestin2004 he/him]

3 hours ago, Sedside said:

I understand all of this, but I wrote in my post that I didn't have the sense of danger for what was happening. If I have to think of what could have happened, make some calculations in my mind and apply logic to my reading experience, it doesn't help me feel any emotions about what I am reading. What I read in this chapter felt to me as cheap and easy, and no explanations can change what I feel. It was supposed to be something very dangerous and life-threatening, but it didn't read like it to me at all. Not even close to the infiltration of Amaram's house, Rockfall or Kholinar palace.

Oh, well in that case it makes more sense.

Maybe the real problem is the fact that we're getting this piece by piece. I imagine it's quite hard for suspense build up when your given a week to examine, or read the examinations of others, each and every moment of the entire scene.

It can't flow properly because of that.

2 hours ago, BinarySecond said:

She was still wearing all her armour except for the section she dismissed to take the blow herself.

I would agree she was not almost killed.

Uh, where dd you get that impression from? 

Spoiler

Go! Shallan commanded the armor.

Shallan? the spren sent, but obeyed, vanishing right as the crossbow bolt took her in the ribs. She tumbled in her dive, grunting at the sudden jolt of pain. She almost drew in Stormlight, but forcibly stopped herself. No. No.

At no point did she 'partially' unsummon her Plate, as far as we are told as the audience, it is all gone.

And I doubt that Iyatil would try and knife someone who is still 99% covered in active Shardplate.

[Sedside she/her]

19 minutes ago, JustQuestin2004 said:

Oh, well in that case it makes more sense.

Maybe the real problem is the fact that we're getting this piece by piece. I imagine it's quite hard for suspense build up when your given a week to examine, or read the examinations of others, each and every moment of the entire scene.

It can't flow properly because of that.

Yeah, probably it is, and we will get something in the following chapters. I've actually reread all the previous ones before reading this week's chapters, so it didn't help

21 minutes ago, JustQuestin2004 said:

At no point did she 'partially' unsummon her Plate, as far as we are told as the audience, it is all gone.

I actually had the same impression when I was reading this, though you are right, there is no mention of the armor vanishing partially.

Anyway, I just hope there is something more to Mraize's weird behaviour. Also, it probably was needed for Shallan's Mishram research, as she now knows about Renarin's spren being the spy and also that he is probably able to guide people through SR. It explains why the blob says Shallan will be working with Renarin and Rlain.

[BinarySecond]

9 minutes ago, Sedside said:

I actually had the same impression when I was reading this, though you are right, there is no mention of the armor vanishing partially.

Anyway, I just hope there is something more to Mraize's weird behaviour. Also, it probably was needed for Shallan's Mishram research, as she now knows about Renarin's spren being the spy and also that he is probably able to guide people through SR. It explains why the blob says Shallan will be working with Renarin and Rlain.

It just seemed that way by the way I read. I'm glad I'm not the only one because it was a ridiculous understanding of the situation.

 

I hope Mraize isn't doing some triple agent stuff I'd rather he was just out for himself.

[Isilel]

A bit of a crackpot theory - did the Ghostbloods kidnap Vasher and force him to produce anti-Light for them? Because in RoW he was suddenly gone and Sanderson said that he couldn't participate in the occupation arc for reasons. However, we saw Mraize hunting and killing another off-worlder (who refused to cooperate?) and now in WaT it was revealed that Vasher had been the original inventor of anti-Lights, the Ghostbloods have them, and he is still absent.

And sure, the Ghostbloods have resources, but none of them struck me as magical engineer. And it has been only 3 days and Raboniel had sent the plates away. So even if they got the theory of it through spies, the time-frame would be a bit too tight for them to already have a working prototype, IMHO. Unless they had an expert working for them.

[alder24]

16 hours ago, Isilel said:

So, it occurred to me that in RoW when they put anti-voidlight into the dagger, it came into contact with and in fact was conducted through metallic raysium... and nothing happened! Which tells me that anti-stormlight shouldn't be able to harm Radiant spren in metallic form either.

Yes, solid investiture is more resilient to anti-investiture. 

Spoiler

TopicCharming2157

Living Shardblades are the physical manifestation of spren. If Moash had used Raboniel's anti-Stormlight charged dagger to stab a spren while in Shardblade form, would it kill the spren? (Like Kaladin forming a Syl shield to guard a stab)

Brandon Sanderson

Physical form of a spren is going to be more resilient to this.

YouTube Spoiler Stream 3 (Dec. 16, 2021)

It probably wouldn't be pleasant for spren to be hit with a bolt of anti-light, but it shouldn't do any significant damage to them.

[Confused]

On 11/4/2024 at 9:02 AM, Ookla said:

I'm a little confused. The chapter says she felt it inside her

I’m a lot Confused. What exactly are you saying?

With that introduction to the Shallan problem, let’s talk.

Some of you think the Ghostbloods play the Keystone Cops. Others think they trick Shallan. I think it depends on the narrative purpose of the Ghostblood scene. Is it to show the Ghostbloods have spren and Investitures they barely know how to use? Is it to show a Radiant can recover from anti-Light? Or will the anti-Light cause some important change in Shallan?

I think it’s all three. I think the Ghostbloods are competent enough. They had one anti-Light bolt prepared and waiting for Shallan: “The Lightweaver is here!” Iyatil cries. It almost sounds like they expect Shallan to have snuck in, like they wanted to experiment on her. To compare the Ghostbloods with Kelsier and his crew is unfair: Kel had to combat the Lord Ruler, his god. The Ghostblood’s nemesis is “only” a 4^th Oath Radiant, powerful yes, but not on the Lord Ruler’s level and not nearly as ruthless.

A few of you suggest the anti-Light’s effects will linger. I agree. Shallan’s soul remains highly Invested even when not holding Stormlight. It’s hard to imagine the anti-Light won’t affect her in some way. Will she and her spren be forced to ask Sja-anat to enlighten Pattern and Testament?

Where did that one anti-Light bolt come from? If the Ghostbloods themselves figured out how to make anti-Light, they’d have more than one bolt and ballista on stand-by. Maybe the metal tip limits their manufacture; but maybe someone VERY in-the-know is helping by making anti-Light for them. They wanted to test the bolt’s effectiveness on Shallan and received only one?

Mraize is obviously more than he seems. He continues to groom Shallan. Like the pant leg tucked in his sock, Mraize shooting a normal bolt at Shallan warns her not to block Iyatil’s bolt with her spren. Maybe as that WoB shows, her spren could have blocked it without damage, but neither Mraize nor Shallan might have known that. Maybe he just wanted to test her Radiant reflexes and eye-hand coordination. She’s a Lightweaver, after all, not a trained fighter like Windrunners and Stonewards.

Quote

“You aren’t my enemy,” he said. “You’re my obstacle.”

“Obstacle” is the Chapter’s title. Mraize is clearly a goal-focused fellow, whatever those goals are. I don’t think he will allow Shallan to block him from his goals. But he doesn’t want to kill her unless and until he has to. Maybe Mraize wants to preserve Shallan as a worthy opponent until that time comes.

She, however, freaks out whenever she sees him. She reverts to Veil and Radiant. I think Mraize exerts the same sense of authority over her that her father did. Maybe she ends up strangling Mraize while singing him a lullaby...

On 11/4/2024 at 10:05 AM, teknopathetic said:

I doubt the Ghostbloods have sworn so many oaths so soon (unless oaths aren’t needed in the same way with enlightened spren if you’re not expressly trying to be a radiant) 

Has anyone suggested this idea before? Great thought, Teknopathetic! Maybe enlightened spren are “reborn” and free of whatever oaths might have previously bound them. I think Ishar imposed his “order” on spren, not humans. Humans die and new Surgebinders would not be bound. Spren oaths are eternal. Renarin’s, Rlain’s, and Venli’s “reborn” spren choose to be Radiant. Other Nahel spren might choose to bond a non-Radiant and not be oath-bound again.

And finally, my limerick summary of this week’s chapters:

We now know the Shin fear a rock

And anti-Light bolts cause a shock.

But Shallan does not die

(Only Brandon knows why).

And Kal makes Szeth soup from a crock.

 

[Ookla she/her]

22 minutes ago, Confused said:

I’m a lot Confused. What exactly are you saying?

With that introduction to the Shallan problem, let’s talk.

Some of you think the Ghostbloods play the Keystone Cops. Others think they trick Shallan. I think it depends on the narrative purpose of the Ghostblood scene. Is it to show the Ghostbloods have spren and Investitures they barely know how to use? Is it to show a Radiant can recover from anti-Light? Or will the anti-Light cause some important change in Shallan?

I think it’s all three. I think the Ghostbloods are competent enough. They had one anti-Light bolt prepared and waiting for Shallan: “The Lightweaver is here!” Iyatil cries. It almost sounds like they expect Shallan to have snuck in, like they wanted to experiment on her. To compare the Ghostbloods with Kelsier and his crew is unfair: Kel had to combat the Lord Ruler, his god. The Ghostblood’s nemesis is “only” a 4^th Oath Radiant, powerful yes, but not on the Lord Ruler’s level and not nearly as ruthless.

A few of you suggest the anti-Light’s effects will linger. I agree. Shallan’s soul remains highly Invested even when not holding Stormlight. It’s hard to imagine the anti-Light won’t affect her in some way. Will she and her spren be forced to ask Sja-anat to enlighten Pattern and Testament?

Where did that one anti-Light bolt come from? If the Ghostbloods themselves figured out how to make anti-Light, they’d have more than one bolt and ballista on stand-by. Maybe the metal tip limits their manufacture; but maybe someone VERY in-the-know is helping by making anti-Light for them. They wanted to test the bolt’s effectiveness on Shallan and received only one?

Mraize is obviously more than he seems. He continues to groom Shallan. Like the pant leg tucked in his sock, Mraize shooting a normal bolt at Shallan warns her not to block Iyatil’s bolt with her spren. Maybe as that WoB shows, her spren could have blocked it without damage, but neither Mraize nor Shallan might have known that. Maybe he just wanted to test her Radiant reflexes and eye-hand coordination. She’s a Lightweaver, after all, not a trained fighter like Windrunners and Stonewards.

“Obstacle” is the Chapter’s title. Mraize is clearly a goal-focused fellow, whatever those goals are. I don’t think he will allow Shallan to block him from his goals. But he doesn’t want to kill her unless and until he has to. Maybe Mraize wants to preserve Shallan as a worthy opponent until that time comes.

She, however, freaks out whenever she sees him. She reverts to Veil and Radiant. I think Mraize exerts the same sense of authority over her that her father did. Maybe she ends up strangling Mraize while singing him a lullaby...

Has anyone suggested this idea before? Great thought, Teknopathetic! Maybe enlightened spren are “reborn” and free of whatever oaths might have previously bound them. I think Ishar imposed his “order” on spren, not humans. Humans die and new Surgebinders would not be bound. Spren oaths are eternal. Renarin’s, Rlain’s, and Venli’s “reborn” spren choose to be Radiant. Other Nahel spren might choose to bond a non-Radiant and not be oath-bound again.

And finally, my limerick summary of this week’s chapters:

We now know the Shin fear a rock

And anti-Light bolts cause a shock.

But Shallan does not die

(Only Brandon knows why).

And Kal makes Szeth soup from a crock.

 

I like your theory. Some combo of the three parts of the debate seems the most likely to me, now that you elucidate it like that. It seems very Brand-on (see what I did there? ) to do multiple things with the group, and to hide their true competence under a few layers of what appears to be extreme incompetence. We've seen twists like that before in Brandon's books. 

[alder24]

On 11/4/2024 at 7:05 PM, teknopathetic said:

I doubt the Ghostbloods have sworn so many oaths so soon (unless oaths aren’t needed in the same way with enlightened spren if you’re not expressly trying to be a radiant) 

15 hours ago, Confused said:

Has anyone suggested this idea before? Great thought, Teknopathetic! Maybe enlightened spren are “reborn” and free of whatever oaths might have previously bound them.

They still need to swear Ideal. They are a bit different but they are still a part of the process.

Spoiler

GrandAdmiralThrawn10

As a Truthwatcher I am curious, are we going to learn the standard ideals that Stump would give, or will we just learn the ones that Renarin and Rlain speak, since they are bonded to Enlightened spren? Need to know what my ideals are.

Brandon Sanderson

You will learn those both. You will learn the differences between them. I'm kind of being dodgy until I get to Renarin's book for some of this stuff, but my goal will be to give you both sets of ideals.

YouTube Spoiler Stream 4 (June 16, 2022)

 

15 hours ago, Confused said:

I think Ishar imposed his “order” on spren, not humans. Humans die and new Surgebinders would not be bound. Spren oaths are eternal. Renarin’s, Rlain’s, and Venli’s “reborn” spren choose to be Radiant. Other Nahel spren might choose to bond a non-Radiant and not be oath-bound again.

Seems like Ishar discovered or bound the Nahel Bond itself to make Radiants. Spren choosing not to make a Radiant seems like an impossible task as long as they are bonding via a Nahel Bond. RoW I-1:

Quote

A Bondsmith created—or at least discovered—the Nahel bond: the ability of spren and humans to join together into something better.

[bmcclure7]

On 11/5/2024 at 9:42 PM, Sedside said:

This is how it was portrayed, not only what Mraize says.

And all of this was handwaved with Shallan's armor.

I'm sorry, but it doesn't read to me as "Shallan was almost killed". It reads to me as "she felt some pain and wrongness from anti-light". I didn't feel any sense of danger for her in this chapter, she reads like fully in control, she knows how to react to anti-light, she talks to Mraize, and GBs do nothing against her, they just run away in terror.

1. She was shot with a min bilista and couldn't heal what do you mean she just "felt wrongness" 

2 they ran away from the Wind Runners not her 

3 what do you mean hand waved ? Her armor was literally no protection.

4.no it is only Mraize says that no one else portrade it that way. 

[OoklaApologist She/her]

On 11/4/2024 at 12:36 PM, Lightspine said:

Speaking of Shallan's illusion tactic, I doubt Iyatil was simply getting lucky:

Could she have some sort of ability that lets her identify illusions? It feels like something Allomantic bronze might be able to accomplish, or maybe Allomantic tin can make it easier to see through a lightweaving?

On the other hand, if she did have such an ability wouldn't that make the white sand illusion detection method pointless?

I feel like Shallan, in the moment, self-sabotaged by jumping away. Iyatil would definitely anticipate the person running away to be the real one, remember, the illusion was just standing still. 

On 11/5/2024 at 10:16 AM, CtrlAltDepressed said:

Ghostbloods have infiltrated every aspect of Roshar

How do we know that? We don't see any of their influence outside of Alethi circles. 

On 11/5/2024 at 10:16 AM, CtrlAltDepressed said:

They are allied with Sja-Anat

I don't think they were before this chapter. They acted very startled to observe her, and attempted to negotiate

[OoklaApologist She/her]

Another question, do the Rosharan Ghostbloods have the support of Scadrial at this point? They might not have medallions and other tools either because of a lack of an ability to charge them or a simple lack of materials. Additionally, there's only one person on Roshar that's confirmed to be a native-born Scadrian, and he's at least 300 years old. They might not know even how to alloy newer metals, let alone manufacture Malwish tech.

On 11/5/2024 at 11:24 AM, Wanguu said:

One thing that confounds me is how they have anti-investiture already - It was discovered what, three days ago? and it needs a super-complicated vacuum tube. I don't know how you source that in a few days. The only thing that makes it easier is that you don't need to sing any tones to manufacture the anti-light, just the plate.

It could be that they learned it at around the same time Gavilar did, but that raises the question of why this hasn't come up before

[Wanguu He/Him]

28 minutes ago, KelsierApologist said:

It could be that they learned it at around the same time Gavilar did, but that raises the question of why this hasn't come up before

Do we know if Gavilar knew how it was made? Or just that Vasher/Zahel simply gave Gavilar the anti-sphere?