Chapters 25 and 26

[The Stick]

The Shallan expedition is definitely going to go wrong. She can't speak South Scadrian.

Mraize spren crossbow is terrifying, I now anticipate a final confrontation where either Testament or Pattern is killed.

Navani leaving the Tower seems amazingly stupid, they are losing their best defense.

I wonder how Mraize can sneak through the perpendicularity.

The Hoid quote about one many giving up the power sounds like Kelsier to me. And him calling Kelsier selfless is hilarious to me.

Finally, I think SF did help to kill Tanavast. I had a bit of an epiphany, and I believe that Odium using small caps in OB was actually SF, and Dalinar did not understand.

[CtrlAltDepressed]

1 minute ago, The Stick said:

The Hoid quote about one many giving up the power sounds like Kelsier to me. And him calling Kelsier selfless is hilarious to me.

He was talking about Vin

 

Thoughts:

Is Hoid the spy for the ghostbloods? Either he is the spy or The Mink is. They were the only two people who knew about Dalinar going to the SR. 

 

I was surprised Shallan made it that long, but Im glad she did. Of course Mraize is a Radiant now! Why wouldnt he get a spren from Sja-anat? I should have thought of that.

 

It seems like Iyatil going after BAM is where she is going off the rails as that is not Kelsier's plan. The trophies are hers. Lots of interesting tidbits in there. 

A silvery horn or claw from some great beast. A chunk of light red crystal, like pink salt—though of a deeper, more vibrant color. A violet stone egg, partly crystalline, with silver swirling around its shell. A fat, succulent leaf that pulsed red and seemed to radiate heat.

The silvery horn has to be dragonsteel. Not sure what any of the others are. An egg? A warm leaf? I need this magic systems brandon!

 

Im super excited to relive moments from Hoids life. Thats going to be really interesting. 

Edited October 28, 2024 by CtrlAltDepressed

[basement_boi he/him]

1 minute ago, The Stick said:

The Hoid quote about one many giving up the power sounds like Kelsier to me. And him calling Kelsier selfless is hilarious to me.

I think he’s taking about Vin giving up the power at the end of WoA. It was the “wrong choice” that freed Ruin, but it was selfless because she did it instead of saving Elend.

[The Stick]

In addition, re Ghostbloods infiltration was crazy.

I simply cannot believe in a Sja-Anat Ghostbloods alliance, even if they are Radiants now. Sja Anat is looking out for herself.

I also am wondering what order they are.

Lastly, now we know it is Iyatil who wants BAM to control Shards. Can BAM control Honor or Odium???

[the_archduke]

How did Mraize know Dalinar was going to the Spiritual realm?  Someone in the inner circle would have had to leak it.  He also mentions a new recruit that could have urged this but didn't need to.  Crazy theory but it fits... what if the Sibling is a Ghostblood?

Sja Anat (who just mentioned she can see souls) just said that there will be room in the world for Shallan's children.  Is she pregnant?  Twins?

Apparently Sja Anat told them?  Or is it misdirection from Brandon?

Mraize and Iyatil as radiants?  With corrupted (enlightened) Truthwatcher spren?

Or maybe they haven't bonded them?

[feruchemicalrockband]

So where were we on the "Sja-anat is an avatar of Autonomy" theory? Because allowing the Ghostbloods to bond her spren seems like an Autonomy thing to do. We know that rebelliousness is something that the shard of Odium likes, but this seems further than just rebellion now. The Ghostbloods current plans involve casting aside Kelsier's motives and ideas, and instead furthering their own goals with reckless and ambitious plans. Feels a lot more like what we had described in The Lost Metal than what we've seen of Odium, playing both sides against each other and elevating whichever side ends up on top.

[Ninth of the Night]

36 minutes ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

Is Hoid the spy for the ghostbloods? Either he is the spy or The Mink is. They were the only two people who knew about Dalinar going to the SR. 

Sja-anat is the spy, or her children are at least. That isn't a mystery.

35 minutes ago, basement_boi said:

I think he’s taking about Vin giving up the power at the end of WoA. It was the “wrong choice” that freed Ruin, but it was selfless because she did it instead of saving Elend.

I figured he meant Vin as well, but thought he was referring to her Ascension at the end of HoA. I was confused why he would think that was the "wrong choice." Makes more sense if he was talking about the Well.

[Pagerunner he/him]

55 minutes ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

A silvery horn or claw from some great beast. A chunk of light red crystal, like pink salt—though of a deeper, more vibrant color. A violet stone egg, partly crystalline, with silver swirling around its shell. A fat, succulent leaf that pulsed red and seemed to radiate heat.

The silvery horn has to be dragonsteel. Not sure what any of the others are. An egg? A warm leaf? I need this magic systems brandon!

I'm thinking the egg is a dragon's egg. Dragonsteel is a part of their biological cycle, so that's the swirling silver. Does that mean we've got two dragon artifacts? Or could the horn from something else?

The red crystal is roseite, and we've seen it before in the collection.

The leaf... that's such a weird description. The heat makes me think of Sunlit Man, but I can't come up with any good connection between them.

[logicless.bt]

The pink salt is almost definitely roseite imo. That egg couldn't be a dragon egg, could it? I thought they were born humanoid, but dragon eggs are iconic enough that Brandon might want to include them regardless. I wonder if the red leaf is naturally red or if it's corrupted Investiture.

 

Ghostbloods becoming enlightened Truthwatchers adds credence to the idea that a sympathetic character like Kaladin or Dalinar will end up with Honor/Unity -- Brandon is laying groundwork to make the Ghostbloods immune to future sight and therefore remain threatening foes. Also them becoming Radiants is just plain cool.

 

Edit: got sniped by Pagerunner lol

Edited October 28, 2024 by logicless.bt

[StanLemon]

I can't believe nobody has said anything about how Lift is likely the Ghostbloods spy. Also I like the confirmation that what's going on on Roshar with the Ghostbloods is Iyatil going rogue.

[logicless.bt]

1 minute ago, StanLemon said:

I can't believe nobody has said anything about how Lift is likely the Ghostbloods spy.

Are you talking about her aviar or is this a joke?

[Ninth of the Night]

12 minutes ago, StanLemon said:

I can't believe nobody has said anything about how Lift is likely the Ghostbloods spy.

Because she's not a Ghostblood for a plethora of reasons. And we already know who the spy is.

Edited October 28, 2024 by Ninth of the Night

[Ashbringer he/him]

Weirdly hot plants actually make me think more of Komashi. But it's likely some unknown place, or some weird First of the Sun thing.

iirc, Sanderson's mentioned there's "lesser" dragons in the cosmere, and that "greater" dragons raise their young in human form. I think a lesser dragon egg would make sense. A greater dragon egg... sounds incredibly dangerous to try and collect and then put in a case and not do anything cool with.

Hoid's statement on a Shard not fully ascending makes me think he means Vin not taking the power in Well of Ascension. Her ascension in HoA was much more complete, and he might not even know Kelsier partially held Preservation. But it's interesting implicit confirmation that remaining Shards are the originals.

Iyatil wants BAM to control the Shards... whaaaaat. I thought this was just about Voidlight.

Interestingly, they seemingly didn't catch Shallan until just here at the end. Credit to her. But also trying to fool Iyatil was too much of a gamble.

[alder24]

If Mraize knows Dalinar met with Cultivation and is searching for Honor in the Spiritual Realm, then he must know that Shallan tries to infiltrate them from the same source. And who’s the newest recruit? 

Oh, whoopsy, Shallan doesn’t know Malwish… Who would have guessed that a person from another planet would speak a foreign language.

The one who gave up the power was Vin. But Wit is wrong, Kelsier also gave up the full power of the Shard after full Ascension. 

Sja-Anat is their newest recruit?? Oh, that’s interesting.

And I’m disappointed that they didn’t expect Shallan to infiltrate them… Nothing, despite having Sha-Anat as their spy. So utterly disappointing… At least Shallan was discovered.

And what’s interesting, Iyatil wants Mishram to control Shards, which is something Kelsier doesn’t approve of.

Which spren are Ghostbloods bonded to? My guesses are either Mistspren, or Highspren. Highspren make a lot of sense now because of the group of flying Ghostbloods respecting law, who weren't Radiants. They weren't Radiants because they were bonded to Enlightened Highspren. Oh yeah, it's all coming together.

Spoiler

Matias_Leibo

Are the Coinshots that helped Steris with getting people out of the flood zone, and who seemed rather concerned with whether she was following the law, actually Skybreakers?

Brandon Sanderson

Ah, hehehehehe. So, we'll just leave that one. So, how about this. At this point in continuity, a Skybreaker could not easily get off of Roshar. In fact, by this point in continuity, I believe (you can't hold me to this one too much) the only Radiant who's managed to get off of Roshar and maintain powers is Hoid. I believe that's the case. Hoid is weird. He also has lots of knowledge. He used a specific method to get... yeah, anyway.

Don't hold me to that, but I think by this point he is the first to get out of system. Off-world doesn't really count because you can go to Braize or Ashyn. 

YouTube Spoiler Stream 5 (Dec. 2, 2022)

 

[GudThymes he/him]

Is Mraize trying to kill Honors shard? The focus on changing the future using lessons from the past seemed like an interesting way to tease that result.

 

If the bulk of Honor's power is in the SR and Mraize launches that anti-honor bolt into it... Bad bad bad.

[teknopathetic he/him]

Mraize actually working against the Ghostbloods in the end would be an amazing twist. 

[Ashbringer he/him]

7 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Sja-Anat is their newest recruit?? Oh, that’s interesting.

And I’m disappointed that they didn’t expect Shallan to infiltrate them… Nothing, despite having Sha-Anat as their spy. So utterly disappointing… At least Shallan was discovered.

I’m inclined to believe Sja-anat is aligned with the GBs solely for self-interest and survival. They would be a threat to her, but also can help her in ways she needs. So she may have just chosen not to give up Shallan.

But believing spren like her has gotten us into trouble, so…

4 minutes ago, GudThymes said:

If the bulk of Honor's power is in the SR and Mraize launches that anti-honor bolt into it... Bad bad bad.

 

Nightblood couldn’t damage Odium (the Shard), I doubt a smidge of anti-Investiture would. Dropping an atom of anti-hydrogen in the ocean would be profoundly disappointing.

[CtrlAltDepressed]

13 minutes ago, alder24 said:

But Wit is wrong, Kelsier also gave up the full power of the Shard after full Ascension. 

He didnt have a choice in this as I remember. He was not well suited for the shard and thus it ultimately rejected him. Is that not the case?

 

[Ninth of the Night]

17 minutes ago, alder24 said:

And I’m disappointed that they didn’t expect Shallan to infiltrate them… Nothing, despite having Sha-Anat as their spy.

It does seem like Sja-Anat has a soft spot for Shallan. As evidenced by this chapter, when she didn't immediately reveal Shallan as an imposter.

17 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Which spren are Ghostbloods bonded to? My guesses are either Mistspren, or Highspren. Highspren make a lot of sense now because of the group of flying Ghostbloods respecting law, who weren't Radiants. They weren't Radiants because they were bonded to Enlightened Highspren. Oh yeah, it's all coming together.

Yes!! That's gotta be it, because no one can convince me those weren't Skybreakers on Scadrial!

Still I think it makes more sense for Mraize and Iyatil to be Truthwatchers. I don't think highspren would be open to change quite yet (but soon enough).

Quote

I like change, Nomad. My kind were too static for too long, particularly we highspren.

-Aux, Sunlit Man

Wait... Might that mean Auxiliary was enlightened?!

Edited October 28, 2024 by Ninth of the Night

[LewsTherinTelescope]

21 minutes ago, alder24 said:

The one who gave up the power was Vin. But Wit is wrong, Kelsier also gave up the full power of the Shard after full Ascension. 

I think Hoid's just such a hater he ignores it lol.

[alder24]

4 minutes ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

He didnt have a choice in this as I remember. He was not well suited for the shard and thus it ultimately rejected him. Is that not the case?

He did. He attacked Ruin with all he had, pushed too far and the power was ripped away from him - but he also gave it away voluntarily to Vin in the same moment. Still counts. SH ch 6-7:

Quote

Kelsier hit Ruin with the full strength of his power. It wasn’t much, and he was a poor master of it. But it was unexpected, and it drew away Ruin’s attention. The powers met, and the friction—the opposition —caused them to grind.
[...]
Vin reached to the mists, and Kelsier felt the power within him tremble, eager. This was what they’d been meant for; this was their purpose. He felt Vin’s yearning, and felt her question. Where had she felt this power before?
Kelsier rammed himself against Ruin, the powers clashing, exposing his soul. His darkened, battered soul.
[...]
Kelsier took a deep breath. He felt Preservation’s energy being ripped from him. He felt Ruin’s fury pummeling him, flaying him, ravenous to destroy him. For one last moment he felt the world. The farthest ashfall, the people in the distant south, the curling winds and the life straining —struggling—to continue on this planet.
Then Kelsier did the most difficult thing he’d ever done.
“Giving you power!” he roared to Vin, letting go of Preservation’s essence so she could take it up.

 

Just now, LewsTherinTelescope said:

I think Hoid's just such a hater he ignores it lol.

True!

[Elder]

I find it interesting that Mraize and Iyatil are so confident that the Bondsmiths will find BAM’s prison on the way to Honor’s power (in a place where time and space either have no meaning or far too much).  Tying the shame of the Radiants/ the Recreance that the Storm Father refused to talk about in with the Death of Honor.

The Stormfather was probably quite relieved when Tarevangian exposed everything in OB.  He used it as a screen to hide his real secrets.

BAM was able to connect an entire race, performing a feat that usually was done by her god/shard….. what if she got ahold of Honor’s power?

Or, perhaps the absence of the vast majority of Honor’s power is what’s actually causing deadeyes.

 

Edited October 28, 2024 by Elder

[StanLemon]

39 minutes ago, Ninth of the Night said:

Because she's not a Ghostblood for a plethora of reasons. And we already know who the spy is.

Lift is an entirely valid suspect. She was alone with Mraize for an unknown amount of time during the occupation of Urithiru and she was listening in on the plans to enter the Spiritual Realm. Could their contact have just been Sja-anat possibly. But there isn't any reason to believe that it couldn't have been someone else either and they just charged Sja-anat to monitor him after being contacted. 

[Elder]

42 minutes ago, GudThymes said:

Is Mraize trying to kill Honors shard? The focus on changing the future using lessons from the past seemed like an interesting way to tease that result.

 

If the bulk of Honor's power is in the SR and Mraize launches that anti-honor bolt into it... Bad bad bad.

More likely imho, Mraize is going to kill someone’s Spren.  Possibly one of Shallan’s…. But I wonder if he might hit Rlain’s….. and then Rlain becomes BAN’s bondsmith to Unite the Singers and Listeners.

[teknopathetic he/him]

That line about “your children” seemed like a hint that Shallan’s pregnant. 

Makes me wonder if radiants have heightened fertility, and if/when someone might be able to see a second flame in the Cognitive realm.