The Shadesmar Compass

[Quantus he/him]

They now have a Shadesmar compass that points to "Something the Sibling called ‘the Grand Knell, source of the Current, the death of a god.’ 

Sooo, what's that? What's 'the Current'? The actual death point of Honor?  Something relating to Ambition and the Threnodite System, given the death theme?  Something else? 

[+Bzhydack he/him]

This cannot be Honor's Grave (?) because those Compasses were hidden in Urithiru by Sibling, but in time when Sibling hide them Honor still was alive.

Most popular theory I saw is that this is the Dor, since it is the largest known amount of Investiture in Shadesmar, it is also place where god died. Actually even two gods.

But I think it is death place of Ambition, simply for practical reasons - it was outside any system, so Compass will be usefull on any planet.

[Miyabi She/Her]

I'm more partial to it pointing to Yolen and the death of Adonalsium. 

[LewsTherinTelescope]

1 hour ago, Miyabi said:

I'm more partial to it pointing to Yolen and the death of Adonalsium. 

This was my first thought, but why is Yolen so hard to find then?

[SPECTRE120]

The definition of a knell according to google is "the sound of a bell, especially when rung solemnly for a death or funeral."  I'd say this gives points to ambition what with all the Threnodite planets related to songs and death. I could see it being the Dor though, and yeah, Yolen being so hard to find probably means that it isn't Yolen.

[Ashbringer he/him]

I’m team Ambition.

Is Yolen hard to find, or just hard to access? One of my (unrelated) theories somewhat-relies on it having hefty time dialation.

[LewsTherinTelescope]

8 hours ago, Ashbringer said:

Is Yolen hard to find, or just hard to access?

Hard to find (SH 3-2):

Quote

"Other planets," she repeated gently. "Yes, there are dozens of them. Many are inhabited by people much like you or me. There is an original, shrouded and hidden somewhere in the cosmere. I've yet to find it, but I have found stories."

 

[teknopathetic he/him]

It is either Ambition because of the bell/music/durge connection to that system or Virtuosity's death spot since that might have left an intentional mark and we don't know what a self-inflicted shattering looks like or what her goals were in doing so. Virtuosity's death spot being a cosmere-wide art installation would be nifty. 

I don't believe the spot is somewhere on Roshar. But if it were, I wonder if it would be the place Truth died. There are many hints that Truth a small god like Wind, and I wonder what happened to them. 

Edited September 11, 2024 by teknopathetic

[+Bzhydack he/him]

4 hours ago, teknopathetic said:

It is either Ambition because of the bell/music/durge connection to that system or Virtuosity's death spot since that might have left an intentional mark and we don't know what a self-inflicted shattering looks like or what her goals were in doing so. Virtuosity's death spot being a cosmere-wide art installation would be nifty. 

But how this looks in timeline? Wasnt Virtuosity suicide much later, at least comparing it to Recreance?

[drunkenbotanist]

The current would describe the sun in TSM well

[teknopathetic he/him]

2 hours ago, Bzhydack said:

But how this looks in timeline? Wasnt Virtuosity suicide much later, at least comparing it to Recreance?

Im not sure we know when Virtuosity splintered herself. We have clues, but it’s unclear. We don’t know how that went down or how quickly she fell apart after inflicting the wound. 
 

But I do see your point. It does seem like it was closer to RoW in years than it was to the recreance 4000 years ago.

[Miyabi She/Her]

On 9/10/2024 at 10:47 PM, LewsTherinTelescope said:

This was my first thought, but why is Yolen so hard to find then?

I think part of this could be attributed to some lack of context.  How rare exactly are compasses of this sort within the Cosmere?  They seem rare on Roshar.  What if Roshar was unique in their development of such a device?  

[+Bzhydack he/him]

2 hours ago, Miyabi said:

I think part of this could be attributed to some lack of context.  How rare exactly are compasses of this sort within the Cosmere?  They seem rare on Roshar.  What if Roshar was unique in their development of such a device?  

Counterpoint: If Roshar, not particularly Cosmere Aware was able to obtain Device capable of pointing at Yolen, then civs much more active in the Cosmere, like Nalthis or Silverlight should be able to do that.

[+Oltux72 he/him]

On 9/11/2024 at 11:22 PM, teknopathetic said:

I don't believe the spot is somewhere on Roshar. But if it were, I wonder if it would be the place Truth died. There are many hints that Truth a small god like Wind, and I wonder what happened to them. 

1. If it is a point on Roshar, why does the angle stay constant?
2. If it is Yolen, why is Yolen hard to find?
3. If it points at the Dor, why not cakk it the Dor?
4. If it is the place of Ambition's death, why doesn't it shift as people think differently about interstellar space?

Any option has issues. I think we need to include some more fundamental issues. The Cognitive Realm cannot obey the rules of Eukledian geometry. You cannot flatten a sphere without hideously deforming its surface within the rules of geometry known to us.

5 minutes ago, Bzhydack said:

Counterpoint: If Roshar, not particularly Cosmere Aware was able to obtain Device capable of pointing at Yolen, then civs much more active in the Cosmere, like Nalthis or Silverlight should be able to do that.

1. Does it work outside Shadesmar proper, that is outside Roshar's subastral?
2. Is the assumption of Roshar being not aware of the Cosmere at the time before the Recreance true?
3. For how long has Yolen been hard to reach?

[+Bzhydack he/him]

4 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

• Does it work outside Shadesmar proper, that is outside Roshar's subastral?
• Is the assumption of Roshar being not aware of the Cosmere at the time before the Recreance true?
• For how long has Yolen been hard to reach?

1. We dont know.

2. Thats very good point actually, we know Fused at least are more Cosmere aware than today Roshar - they know about White Sand, they have the same name for Aluminium as Sel.

3. I always assumed it was consequence of Shattering, but this is just speculation, we have no idea.

[Michael Portz he/him]

On 9/14/2024 at 6:20 PM, Oltux72 said:

1. Does it work outside Shadesmar proper, that is outside Roshar's subastral?
2. Is the assumption of Roshar being not aware of the Cosmere at the time before the Recreance true?

Hmm ... I can't imagine Roshar being "not aware", "not particularly aware" sounds more reasonable, as e.g.

• the Iriali seem to be quite aware of their history and thus should be equally aware of the Cosmere
• the Unkalaki live with Cultivation's Perpendicularity right at their doorstep and even seeing themselves as its guardians

[+Bzhydack he/him]

2 hours ago, Michael Portz said:

Hmm ... I can't imagine Roshar being "not aware", "not particularly aware" sounds more reasonable, as e.g.

• the Iriali seem to be quite aware of their history and thus should be equally aware of the Cosmere
• the Unkalaki live with Cultivation's Perpendicularity right at their doorstep and even seeing themselves as its guardians

Still, this is not level of Nalthis or Sel, when you have entire economy in Shadesmar.

[+Oltux72 he/him]

13 hours ago, Michael Portz said:

Hmm ... I can't imagine Roshar being "not aware", "not particularly aware" sounds more reasonable, as e.g.

• the Iriali seem to be quite aware of their history and thus should be equally aware of the Cosmere
• the Unkalaki live with Cultivation's Perpendicularity right at their doorstep and even seeing themselves as its guardians

1. The Iriali most likely arrived after the Recreance.
2. I really doubt worldhopping traders go to the perpendicularity with any frequency.
   You have to use a ship to get there. The spren own and operate ships. Would you, as a worldhopper, operate ships with human crews, whose food needs to be imported, whose water either needs expensive Stormlight to make or also needs to be imported? Unless you use Unkalaki crews, your people will want to go home from time to time, adding even more expenses.
   Fundamentally it seems not economically viable. I am sure the caravans drop the goods at a port city closest to the subastral they are coming from and spren do the transshipping.