Which Compounding Twinborn would you LEAST like to be?

[Ninth of the Night]

16 minutes ago, robardin said:

Well, you would want to Compound it at least a little bit, just so you wouldn't have to compensate for putting wakefulness into the bronzemind by spending time being drowsy.

I thought I read somewhere that you could fill it while sleeping, though it makes sense that you would have to be conscious to fill a metalmind. Regardless I spend enough time being drowsy that filling a bronzemind wouldn't be a challenge. You're right about A-Bronze being useless though, even if we were in the Cosmere it'd still be low on the list of abilities I would desire.

Either way I certainly wouldn't want to be awake 24/7 even if I didn't need the sleep to function, it's convenient just to pass time, plus I wouldn't want to miss out on dreaming as mine are often quite enjoyable.

[Isilel]

On 5/8/2024 at 7:30 PM, Quantus said:

Breath is nice to be unstranglable I guess, and it would be a lot of fun to live underwater (or ignore all air polution), but for a normal lifestyle it's not that great.  

 

Never being out of breath due to physical exertion would be pretty neat, IMHO. While storing should gradually expand lung function. Both are pretty nice for any kind of sports training, I'd say. 

Also very helpful for mountaineering and similar. Or sneaking.

  In addition,  tapping breath would allow one to survive lethal loss of blood or a  heart attack for as long as one taps, since the tissues won't become hypoxic and die. Which should, hopefully, be enough time to find medical help. 

[Quantus he/him]

44 minutes ago, Isilel said:

 

Never being out of breath due to physical exertion would be pretty neat, IMHO. While storing should gradually expand lung function. Both are pretty nice for any kind of sports training, I'd say. 

Also very helpful for mountaineering and similar. Or sneaking.

Excellent Point on Breath=sustained exertion!  That side of it hadnt occurred to me, but it should translate to Endurance juicing a lot mor directly than I was giving it credit for.  

44 minutes ago, Isilel said:

  In addition,  tapping breath would allow one to survive lethal loss of blood or a  heart attack for as long as one taps, since the tissues won't become hypoxic and die. Which should, hopefully, be enough time to find medical help. 

I think this one is still an outstanding question, depending on where in the physical/biological processes it actually plugs in.  You're correct if it oxygenates the tissues directly, but if it's adding/removing Oxygenation at the blood level then you'd still needs blood flow and pressure and heart function, etc to maintain O2 distribution to the brain and tissues.

There's a similar question with Bendalloy for food and whether it stores calories specifically or is capable of storing complex and/or Specific nutritional elements (to the point of being able to store like Glucose or Salt or VitaminC, etc). Or even if it's storing/tapping the Need for food more directly, implying it cant be used to Store more specific things beyond Food/Hydration, but also that it bypasses a lot more of limits of natural processes of metabolism and H2O absorption, etc. 

[+Lewis Nethur He/Him]

Being born of double aluminum would just hurt a lot...

[+robardin he/him]

1 hour ago, hwiles said:

Being born of double aluminum would just hurt a lot...

Being double anything as a Twinborn means you can Compound the Feruchemical attribute, so it's never completely useless.

While I can't really say what would be the result of Compounding for... Let's see... Infinite Identity, well I guess maybe we will find out, LOL.

OTOH being a Twinborn with, say, A-duralumin (gnat) and F-nicrosil (Investiture) would be truly useless. You can do nothing useful with your own Allomantic power, and your Feruchemical power would be to store that ability in a metalmind so that someone else could do nothing useful with it!

[Shadow of Electrum he/him]

Compounding memories is mostly useless, so I would least like to have that. Although most of the info has been RAFOed, his reaction leads me to believe that compounding copper doesn't have any use outside of some edge cases, that and I can't think of any uses logically. Then there's the fact that the copper powers are generally redundant in a modern environment. I'd like f-copper more if you could remember stuff while it was stored, but the way it works is like a catalog of sorts, which I can use the internet for. A-copper is only useful when dealing with other allomancers, so I wouldn't really like this power either since I can't imagine finding too much use for it. 

On 6/13/2024 at 8:19 PM, robardin said:

 and your Feruchemical power would be to store that ability in a metalmind so that someone else could do nothing useful with it!

The ars arcanum implies that storing investiture has a lot of uses, and even if it didn't, your interpretation wouldn't make any sense as an individual power, say as someone who is just a nicrosil ferring. I'm sure that infinite investiture has some good uses, especially cosmere wide. If you could put all that investiture into an unkeyed metal mind, that could have really large implications, as (SPOILERS FOR BANDS OF MOURNING):

Spoiler

Many of the ghost bloods can use raw investiture to power their abilities to extreme degrees, like twin soul.

Disregarding that, if you can simply find a way to control the investiture you're holding, you can do some big stuff with it. I heard this possibility discussed in a WoB (I would quote it if I remembered how) but in anycase raw investiture is far from useless from what I can tell. The biggest hurdle I see is how to make use of it.

[+robardin he/him]

8 hours ago, Shadow of Electrum said:

The ars arcanum implies that storing investiture has a lot of uses, and even if it didn't, your interpretation wouldn't make any sense as an individual power, say as someone who is just a nicrosil ferring. I'm sure that infinite investiture has some good uses, especially cosmere wide. .. if you can simply find a way to control the investiture you're holding, you can do some big stuff with it. I heard this possibility discussed in a WoB (I would quote it if I remembered how) but in anycase raw investiture is far from useless from what I can tell. The biggest hurdle I see is how to make use of it.

Ah, that was my bad to in a way to go off on a tangent from the original topic of "most useless Compounding Twinborn". I meant to start out by saying that even being a double aluminum Twinborn wasn't necessarily useless, no Compounder is (though double copper is curious and RAFO'ed) - but I would say having aluminum for Allomancy (gnat) but F-nicrosil instead of F-aluminum would be way worse (no Compounding, and still nothing personally useful in either Metalborn power).

And now I see I actually wrote A-duralumin for the "gnat" power for some reason. Doubly my fault for confusion!

[Shadow of Electrum he/him]

4 minutes ago, robardin said:

Ah, that was my bad to in a way to go off on a tangent from the original topic of "most useless Compounding Twinborn". I meant to start out by saying that even being a double aluminum Twinborn wasn't necessarily useless, no Compounder is

It's all good. I also think I got confused because I started talking about infinite investiture when you hadn't really mentioned being a nicrosil compounder in the first place, so I guess we can just forgive each other for going off topic. I would be very interested to see what compounding copper would do if anything since I can't imagine it being very useful, but I am nothing if not terrible at predicting the future so I guess we'll just have to read and find out (ha).

[+robardin he/him]

5 hours ago, Shadow of Electrum said:

It's all good. I also think I got confused because I started talking about infinite investiture when you hadn't really mentioned being a nicrosil compounder in the first place, so I guess we can just forgive each other for going off topic. I would be very interested to see what compounding copper would do if anything since I can't imagine it being very useful, but I am nothing if not terrible at predicting the future so I guess we'll just have to read and find out (ha).

well for one thing, I wonder if it was necessary to create the coppermind medallion that Wax unlocked at the end of BoM that had the memory of Kelsier telling a freezing Southern Scadrian after the Catacendre to SURVIVE!

That had to be Kelsier's own memory, especially since there is the flicker of association of the longhouse he finds them huddled in with the plantation skaa hovels of the Final Empire. But if all the "coins" that had been appearing and circulating in New Seran, per the informant at Lady Kelesina's party there (Devlin Airs), as he said after inspecting the one Wax showed him, were also unsealed copperminds... Did they have the same memory?

And how did Hoid get a hold of one to throw at Wax's head, when we also have a WoB that the memory in that coppermind was not something Kelsier would have wanted known?

Quote

Viridian

Why did Hoid give the memory coin to Wax? What was his intention?

Brandon Sanderson

He thought that certain information was being kept, and certain lies were being perpetuated. And Hoid was a fan of that information being out.

Viridian

I'm still suspicious.

Brandon Sanderson

Oh, you should be suspicious of Hoid's motive. He and Kelsier do not get along. Let's just say... Kelsier did not want that information to get out.

Arcanum Unbounded release party (Nov. 22, 2016)

So if the memory was Kelsier's, and was a memory (that reveals him to be the Sovereign) that he didn't want to get out, ... why would he have created and disseminated it?

Perhaps Compounding copper allows "cookie-stamping" out the same memory into multiple copperminds?

Or to be able to "offload" a memory and still keep it in your head? We saw in the original trilogy that Sazed needed "indexing" to keep track of where and in which coppermind he needed to tap to fetch the right stored information, even that much was not left in his head after a memory dump.

[JustQuestin2004 he/him]

On 6/21/2024 at 2:36 AM, robardin said:

So if the memory was Kelsier's, and was a memory (that reveals him to be the Sovereign) that he didn't want to get out, ... why would he have created and disseminated it?

Maybe he made it specifically for the Malwish to ensure they would have concrete proof of his existence. So they'd keep following and believing in the other religion he started up.

[Duxredux he/him]

Hm... Twinborn Compounding power I would least like to have...

Logically, it would be one where none of the component powers are desirable either, which rules out most metals. For most people, I'd argue double Aluminum as the least useful. Component parts aren't particularly useful, and despite some theoretical shenanigans to use Blanking Identity... some part of me expects the process of storing Identity to be thoroughly unpleasant. Imagine siphoning off your sense of self. Being able to skip recycling and eat the tinfoil on my leftovers like a goat isn't particularly useful either.

I'm going to have a particularly controversial personal choice though, which is double Gold. Yup, I wouldn't want Miles Hundredlives powers, despite its proven usefulness... because my family is poor enough to qualify for financial aid which isn't that low of a bar for my country. The knowledge that I have the power would be a tremendous temptation, because it is useful - but mostly as personal insurance in a format that no medical insurance company would be willing to pay. I don't see asking for a preemptive payout in solid gold to get more than being made a laughingstock. I also don't want to try to rob Fort Knox or a jeweler. It's personal insurance that I have to save manually that is most useful when carried on my person and most likely to be lost or stolen and can't be used as emergency aid for my family except as collateral. It would feel selfish to hoard gold in case I get injured when my asthmatic wife can't use any of it.

But Dux, what about getting rich through blood banks or organ donation? Besides some of the physical unpleasantness of donating my body to the medical industry, it depends on the conversion rate between gold and blood / organ regrowth. Compounding requires burning solid gold which means using the compounded ability will likely cost hundreds or thousands of dollars per pop. We don't have the numbers to say if the gold to blood  volume ratio will be worth it. Organ donation is also risky as I can't have access to my Goldmind while they operate since I'd probably unconsciously heal the surgical cuts or burn the anesthetic out of my system - which means trusting the surgeon to give back my gold bracer once they've removed the organ and have me unconscious and at their mercy. It also likely means that I would be a very expensive candidate for organ transplant - since it would likely cost thousands of dollars for me to regrow the organ adding additional financial burden on the recipient.  Basically I'm uncertain about any profession that would use the powers since there's the overhead cost and inherent risk. It's like the magic armor from Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess, but way more expensive to use.

Yes, technically I could become a spike factory, but each spike would be hugely expensive to produce and again requires a huge amount of risk that I won't be betrayed once I'm strapped down. All it takes is for whomever has the spikes and mallet and has effectively killed me over and over to want a matching set of however many powers without having to pay for the last one.

Basically double Gold feels super useful, but introduces way too much risk, uncertainty, and temptation compared to flat out useless combinations like Aluminum seems to be. Even more temptation than just being a Bloodmaker.

Edited July 12, 2024 by Duxredux

[Steel Speedster ♂]

Eliminating aluminum and copper, since we don't know what they do, I'll have to go with cadmium compounding. It's not bad, and certainly better than many individual powers, but compared to other compounders, it's pretty weak. Bendalloy compounding and bronze compounding are in a similar tier but are just a tiny bit better in my opinion. I do actually think that compounding breath is more useful than nutrition, but A-bendalloy is so good that it makes up for it. Never needing to sleep is going to be way more convenient for most people than never needing to breathe.

[RefusesToElaborate]

I know it's already been said but I'll say it again. Iron would suck, dude.

I can make myself heavier and pull things toward me under the force of my bodyweight?

I see many, many broken bones resulting from this.

[alder24]

14 hours ago, RefusesToElaborate said:

I know it's already been said but I'll say it again. Iron would suck, dude.

I can make myself heavier and pull things toward me under the force of my bodyweight?

I see many, many broken bones resulting from this.

Yes, your own bones. Gravity is an extremely weak force. Before anything would ever react to your gravitational pull, you would sink into the ground as there isn't anything able to withstand your weight - even rocks would crumble.

Doing really quick math, for somebody to be pulled towards you from 10 meters away with the same acceleration as the Earth is pulling you on (9,81 m/s^2), you would have to have a mass of 1,47*10^13 kg - which is a loooot. Equivalent to a big mountain, but not as big as the Mount Everest (which weighs 6*10^15 kg). Everything you're standing on would be smashed into dust by such an amount of mass and you would just sink and get buried deep below the ground, with only death awaiting your there. 

Edit - I'm an idiot - you meant pull with iron not gravity xD 

Edited August 8, 2024 by alder24

[+robardin he/him]

13 hours ago, RefusesToElaborate said:

I know it's already been said but I'll say it again. Iron would suck, dude.

I can make myself heavier and pull things toward me under the force of my bodyweight?

I see many, many broken bones resulting from this.

But you forget, you can also make yourself LIGHTER and pull yourself against something large and heavy.

You could sling through the city like Spider-Man, as easily as a Coinshot could fly above the city.

And if it's heavy enough or anchored enough, like set in the ground or something, it would stop moving when you stopped Ironpulling. Nobody said you only have to Pull things that were or would become airborne. So you could open massive steel doors, like bank vaults or prison bars. They won't fly into your face at high speed unless you actually wanted them to, haha.

[RefusesToElaborate]

On 8/8/2024 at 11:45 PM, robardin said:

But you forget, you can also make yourself LIGHTER and pull yourself against something large and heavy.

You could sling through the city like Spider-Man, as easily as a Coinshot could fly above the city.

And if it's heavy enough or anchored enough, like set in the ground or something, it would stop moving when you stopped Ironpulling. Nobody said you only have to Pull things that were or would become airborne. So you could open massive steel doors, like bank vaults or prison bars. They won't fly into your face at high speed unless you actually wanted them to, haha.

I thought opening a door with iron or steel would be dumb because you can't really aim pushes and pulls. I thought they were toward or away from centre of mass. But I know investiture likes to obey intent.

Like you can't aim a steel push in a curve, you gotta aim it in straight lines or be moving yourself to put a spin on whatever you're moving.

But once again, I'm thinking tapping iron and then pulling on something is a great way to lose teeth.

[+robardin he/him]

49 minutes ago, RefusesToElaborate said:

I thought opening a door with iron or steel would be dumb because you can't really aim pushes and pulls. I thought they were toward or away from centre of mass. But I know investiture likes to obey intent.

Like you can't aim a steel push in a curve, you gotta aim it in straight lines or be moving yourself to put a spin on whatever you're moving.

But once again, I'm thinking tapping iron and then pulling on something is a great way to lose teeth.

You Push/Pull from/towards your own COG but you can target whatever point on the metal object.

For example it's how Kelsier is described as "spinning" metal in his duel against Kar the Inquisitor, he Pushed on one end of a metal rod while Pulling on the other end, like you would do to spin a coin on a tabletop.

And Pulling open a heavy metal door is exactly what Vin and Elend do to access TLR's storage caches in HoA, except they have to simultaneously Pull on something fixed or heavy behind them to provide the counterweight so they don't just Pull themselves towards the doors. A double-iron Twinborn could just stand there and do it.

And they don't have the doors fly into their faces. Just like when you pull on a heavy door IRL, once you feel it start to move, you stop increasing your pull strength, and when it gets to where you want it to be, you stop pulling. Just because you pull a heavy refrigerator away from the wall towards you doesn't mean you smack yourself with it, right?

I mean yeah, if you overestimate how heavy the thing you're Ironpulling on is - you thought it was heavy and gave it a huge jolt to start with, and whoa it wasn't heavy at all and now it's flying at you - that could happen. But that could happen with ordinary A-iron, even without tapping an ironmind.

And I assume most Lurchers would have a pretty good "feel" for how much strength it takes to move the metal as soon as they started Pulling, just like you have a pretty good feel for "hey this dumbell labeled 20 lbs. is a foam dummy one" if you physically picked up such a thing.

[Qianweilian He/him]

On 5/7/2024 at 4:39 PM, alder24 said:

I will go with Cadmium. Compounding breath isn't that useful in your day to day life. 

Why though? If you have lots of oxygen and don't need to breath, your physical abilities markedly improve. Just look at athletes who move from mountains to shoreline and vice versa

[+Lewis Nethur He/Him]

On 7/12/2024 at 7:04 AM, Duxredux said:

... 

Basically double Gold feels super useful, but introduces way too much risk, uncertainty, and temptation compared to flat out useless combinations like Aluminum seems to be. Even more temptation than just being a Bloodmaker.

Hey! No one said double aluminum was useless. Imagine what it would mean to have infinite identity in real life! One would be incorruptible by external force and impossible to influence except via transparent direct negotiation. I...could imagine how that could be problematic in the sense that they could very quickly appear sociopathic and transactional if they didn't have it in their heart to occasionally give back to others free and of themselves though; even then, one might still be extremely difficult to deal with. I assume some part of that will translate into cosmere space in some manner eventually.

[alder24]

3 hours ago, hwiles said:

Hey! No one said double aluminum was useless. Imagine what it would mean to have infinite identity in real life! One would be incorruptible by external force and impossible to influence except via transparent direct negotiation. I...could imagine how that could be problematic in the sense that they could very quickly appear sociopathic and transactional if they didn't have it in their heart to occasionally give back to others free and of themselves though; even then, one might still be extremely difficult to deal with. I assume some part of that will translate into cosmere space in some manner eventually.

That's why I don't believe there is such a thing as "infinite Identity." If identity is meant to work like an encryption key, then by tapping your own aluminummind, you would change your identity and that would prevent you from tapping your own metalmind! There would be a mismatch of identities. What does it even mean to have a stronger Identity? This doesn't make a lot of sense. You even have it or not. I believe F-aluminum simply blanks your identity and you can't store anything in aluminum - there is no aluminummind. It's aluminum after all, it can't be invested. 

Spoiler

Paleo

Then we also talked about, theorized about unkeyed metalminds - that is Identity-less ones that anybody can that has the power can tap.

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah.

Paleo

We also were wondering is it like, we compared it to cryptography and encryption, stuff like that. Is it just that like, your Identity is sort of this unique encryption key.

Brandon Sanderson

And you need a key to you getting it. That's a valid line of theorizing. It is not exactly but it's close enough to be a good model.

Paleo

And would an unkeyed metalmind theoretically be capable of storing a little more than a keyed one.

Brandon Sanderson

Oh, because of yeah.

Paleo

Because it has to... Is it inherent to the Investiture or is it like an extra bit?

Brandon Sanderson

I'll RAFO that, mostly because I haven't considered that yet.

Prague Signing (Oct. 26, 2019)

 

[+Lewis Nethur He/Him]

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

That's why I don't believe there is such a thing as "infinite Identity." If identity is meant to work like an encryption key, then by tapping your own aluminummind, you would change your identity and that would prevent you from tapping your own metalmind! There would be a mismatch of identities. What does it even mean to have a stronger Identity? This doesn't make a lot of sense. You even have it or not. I believe F-aluminum simply blanks your identity and you can't store anything in aluminum - there is no aluminummind. It's aluminum after all, it can't be invested. 

  Reveal hidden contents

Paleo

Then we also talked about, theorized about unkeyed metalminds - that is Identity-less ones that anybody can that has the power can tap.

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah.

Paleo

We also were wondering is it like, we compared it to cryptography and encryption, stuff like that. Is it just that like, your Identity is sort of this unique encryption key.

Brandon Sanderson

And you need a key to you getting it. That's a valid line of theorizing. It is not exactly but it's close enough to be a good model.

Paleo

And would an unkeyed metalmind theoretically be capable of storing a little more than a keyed one.

Brandon Sanderson

Oh, because of yeah.

Paleo

Because it has to... Is it inherent to the Investiture or is it like an extra bit?

Brandon Sanderson

I'll RAFO that, mostly because I haven't considered that yet.

Prague Signing (Oct. 26, 2019)

 

I'm inclined to disagree. When I say infinite Identity, I just mean compounded aluminum. Let me explain:I

1. Identity is, on a metaphysical level, made of Investiture.

2. Investiture is neither created nor destroyed in Feruchemy storage or tapping. It can leak out as a form of waste if pushed to the extreme or acquired hemalurgically, but it goes somewhere and can be drawn back in.

3. The crystal structure of metals is what allows them to be used for Feruchemy. Sorry, I'm a bit busy at the present moment so I can't hunt for the WoB right now but I will try to circle back later.

4. If the crystal structure of aluminum specifically allows it to be used for storing Identity it doesn't make much sense that the metal would simply destroy the Investiture being pumped into it.

5. Tapping compounded Identity should therefore simply increase the strength of one's spiritual ID. Aspects of one's identity may change day to day, but a person is themselves and being more of one's self would simply mean to me that one has achieved what Robert Jordan called the state of Oneness. A sort of "Trueself" state of being.

 

Edit: okay, out of a desire for completeness, I admit that I could definitely see storing Identity being closely related to something resembling a state of Oneness over tapping it from a certain point of view. I'm gonna give my initial statement 70/30 odds on zero grounds and just agree that I feel where you're coming from. Hopefully that's fair.

Edited August 16, 2024 by hwiles

[+robardin he/him]

55 minutes ago, hwiles said:

I'm inclined to disagree. When I say infinite Identity, I just mean compounded aluminum. ...

... I could definitely see storing Identity being closely related to something resembling a state of Oneness over tapping it from a certain point of view.

What exactly is "Identity" in Cosmere magic is as yet unknown, except that storing it in a metalmind while filling another one is a technique to make an "unkeyed" metalmind.

And that presumably, an aluminum medallion (an aluminummind filled with the original Feruchemist's Identity, plus the unsealed nicrosilmind granting the power of F-aluminum) would allow someone to then use all the "normal", keyed metalminds of that original Feruchemist.

So does that mean it's somehow possible to make an unkeyed aluminummind? A metalmind any Feruchemist with F-aluminum could tap, and access another Feruchemist's Identity?

What it would mean for the original Feruchemist to tap his own atiummind is unknown, as is what the weird feeling would be for someone to tap another person's Identity that way without first "removing" their own Identity. What would be the effect of having two Identities, spiritually or cognitively speaking - a blending into a new Identity, an overlay of "one that's on top" based on Investiture level, or an optional selection for the person as to which they want to "Identify" with at any given time (swappable)?

 

Or to use such a medallion to do the reverse - to give someone the ability for F-aluminum and then somehow make them leave some of their Identity in an unkeyed aluminummind, that you could then access for their Identity, for whatever reason. Kind of like metalborn fingerprinting?

[+Lewis Nethur He/Him]

44 minutes ago, robardin said:

What exactly is "Identity" in Cosmere magic is as yet unknown, except that storing it in a metalmind while filling another one is a technique to make an "unkeyed" metalmind.

And that presumably, an aluminum medallion (an aluminummind filled with the original Feruchemist's Identity, plus the unsealed nicrosilmind granting the power of F-aluminum) would allow someone to then use all the "normal", keyed metalminds of that original Feruchemist.

So does that mean it's somehow possible to make an unkeyed aluminummind? A metalmind any Feruchemist with F-aluminum could tap, and access another Feruchemist's Identity?

What it would mean for the original Feruchemist to tap his own atiummind is unknown, as is what the weird feeling would be for someone to tap another person's Identity that way without first "removing" their own Identity. What would be the effect of having two Identities, spiritually or cognitively speaking - a blending into a new Identity, an overlay of "one that's on top" based on Investiture level, or an optional selection for the person as to which they want to "Identify" with at any given time (swappable)?

 

Or to use such a medallion to do the reverse - to give someone the ability for F-aluminum and then somehow make them leave some of their Identity in an unkeyed aluminummind, that you could then access for their Identity, for whatever reason. Kind of like metalborn fingerprinting?

In order to tap someone else's aluminum mind, my understanding is that you have to murder them with a duralumin spike, implant it into yourself, already have access to aluminum feruchemy, store your own identity completely, and then you can tap their's freely to experience their spiritual ID at extreme levels, recover any breath that they have stored in objects, or tap any other metalminds that they may have created.

Edit: because you would have their spiritual ID, I think this does mean that if you killed a full Feruchemist, you couldn't directly take all 16 of their powers, but you could access all of their metalminds and, if you were a mistborn, compound them.

This might actually be how kelsier created the bands of mourning: Identity theft 101.

Edit: Something about this suggestion doesn't jive quite right; I'm sure I got at least one thing wrong...

Edited August 16, 2024 by hwiles

[+robardin he/him]

28 minutes ago, hwiles said:

In order to tap someone else's aluminum mind, my understanding is that you have to murder them with a duralumin spike, implant it into yourself, already have access to aluminum feruchemy, store your own identity completely, and then you can tap their's freely to experience their spiritual ID at extreme levels, recover any breath that they have stored in objects, or tap any other metalminds that they may have created.

Edit: because you would have their spiritual ID, I think this does mean that if you killed a full Feruchemist, you couldn't directly take all 16 of their powers, but you could access all of their metalminds and, if you were a mistborn, compound them.

This might actually be how kelsier created the bands of mourning: Identity theft 101.

Edit: Something about this suggestion doesn't jive quite right; I'm sure I got at least one thing wrong...

Well, killing someone with a duralumin spike to steal their Identity is one way to do it, but I was suggesting that the original Feruchemist - presumably a full one, who can create unkeyed metalminds by filling an aluminummind with his Identity at the same time as another metalmind (which would be sans Identity) - could also be filling a nicrosilmind, with no Identity, with his ability for F-aluminum (the "unsealed metalmind" that anybody can tap and gain F-aluminum).

Now here's the question - could that Feruchemist do something like fill TWO aluminumminds? One with the "shunted Identity" that allows the creation of unkeyed metalminds, the "jailbreak metalmind" if you will, and a second one that contains... "pure" Identity? Or is there no Identity left to store in that one, since it's been shunted to the first one?

Or is it just a contradiction in terms to talk about an unkeyed aluminummind?

[+Lewis Nethur He/Him]

1 hour ago, robardin said:

...

Now here's the question - could that Feruchemist do something like fill TWO aluminumminds? One with the "shunted Identity" that allows the creation of unkeyed metalminds, the "jailbreak metalmind" if you will, and a second one that contains... "pure" Identity? Or is there no Identity left to store in that one, since it's been shunted to the first one?

Or is it just a contradiction in terms to talk about an unkeyed aluminummind?

Yeah, I think that wouldn't quite work. It feels mechanically similar to me to trying to store at 100% speed into two steelminds simultaneously.

What might work in the distant future though is having a self aware space age machine (imagine Nightblood, only an Empath instead of a Sociopath) which identifies with everyone equally well store it's Investiture into an aluminummind. Storing your own Identity and tapping that one's might theoretically allow anyone to tap anyone's metalminds (think super quantum computing revolution where encryption no longer works)

 

Edit: I could also imagine that going horribly wrong and all the sapient beings on an entire planet being essentially aggregated into an Identity-less mass of drones that are controlled by a computer hivemind though, so buyer beware.

Edited August 16, 2024 by hwiles