connection Genetics, Connection, and the Bene Gesserit?

[Rune]

Alright, so Dune’s been a bit popular lately and it sparked a thought as I was reading a thread discussing Breaths. Essentially, I am asking if there would or is a “best” planet to be born on. Replacing genetics with Connection here and imagining some hypothetical group as a parallel for the Bene Gesserit and their breeding.

Unfortunately, Connection is not hereditary and is entirely reliant on the individual person (as far as I know) which removes the possibility of a “natural” tricking of a planet into believing that someone has a Connection with it (from their parents Connection, allowing for natural access to its magics) rather than being reliant on methods like Hoid’s to artificially manipulate Connection. We do have an example of someone gaining access to almost all forms of Investiture in Hoid and could use him as a case study but for the sake of making this interesting rather than just saying “do what Hoid does” we can restrict it to planetary magics. Meaning that your stuck to using whatever is on your planet.

This does allow for magics that enable a person to manipulate Connection to do whatever shenanigans they want to in collecting as many magics as they can. Simply put, what would be the best planet to start from and with what magic system?

[TheSurvivorofDeath]

Well connection can be manipulated through several means and it’s possible, if a bit difficult, to do exactly what Hoid does as long as you have enough knowledge. As far as I know planetary connection is genetic, you will have a connection to whatever world your ancestors are from even if you’ve been on another one for generations. I believe someone with Nalthian parents can be born with a Breath even if they aren’t born on Nalthis. That being said, a good system to start off with to try and get the rest of them is Scadrial. You want Feruchemy off the bat, preferably full feruchemist but the right kind of ferring works. You can just get lerasium on Scadrial if you know what you’re doing and there’s Allomancy, and with more lerasium and other god metals you should be able to forge a connection to each shard, gaining more abilities. Additionally, duralumin Feruchemy manipulates connection and might assist in tricking the spirit web to let magics stick better. Besides, Scadrial lets you know about hemalurgy and with that you can just take whatever magic and connection you want. 

[alder24]

5 hours ago, Rune said:

Alright, so Dune’s been a bit popular lately and it sparked a thought as I was reading a thread discussing Breaths. Essentially, I am asking if there would or is a “best” planet to be born on. Replacing genetics with Connection here and imagining some hypothetical group as a parallel for the Bene Gesserit and their breeding.

Unfortunately, Connection is not hereditary and is entirely reliant on the individual person (as far as I know) which removes the possibility of a “natural” tricking of a planet into believing that someone has a Connection with it (from their parents Connection, allowing for natural access to its magics) rather than being reliant on methods like Hoid’s to artificially manipulate Connection. We do have an example of someone gaining access to almost all forms of Investiture in Hoid and could use him as a case study but for the sake of making this interesting rather than just saying “do what Hoid does” we can restrict it to planetary magics. Meaning that your stuck to using whatever is on your planet.

This does allow for magics that enable a person to manipulate Connection to do whatever shenanigans they want to in collecting as many magics as they can. Simply put, what would be the best planet to start from and with what magic system?

Connection to Shards is hereditary, a Nalthian or Scadrial born outside of their planet will still have their native Shardic investiture in them, thus Connection to them and even Breath - though it might not last for many generations if they dilute their genes too much (WoB, WoB). I feel like Connection to land will also work like this. 

One of the hardest Invested Arts to gather is possibly Scadrian Metallic Arts, because you have to be born with those genes in you - if you don't want to use Hemalurgy. If you are willing to use Hemalurgy, then it doesn't matter where you are born. But Hemalurgy aside, becoming a Mistborn or a Feruchemist if you are not a Scadrian is incredibly hard. You have to use Lerasium to become a Mistborn (which was in a very limited amount during Era 1, now it's not available almost at all) and use some combination of Scadrian god metals to become a Feruchemist. So assuming getting god metals is impossible as for now, you either have to pass on those Invested Arts, be or be born with them.

But there is one other group of Invested Arts highly dependent on your Connection - Selish one. To be an Elantrian you have to be born in Arelon, you have to have a strong Connection to the land itself. The same goes for every other magic on Sel. Those two types of Invested Arts are the hardest to get if you aren't native to the land, but once you have them, things get a bit easier.

Starting as a Forger is a great way to gain access to many Invested Arts, if you know how to and have enough pure investiture. You can forge yourself to become a Mistborn, or an Elantrian, so if you don't need to have all powers all the time, this is a great substitute. AonDor can basically replicate everything any other Invested Art can do, it's the most versatile magic in Cosmere so being an Elantrian alone would be enough to do anything you want.

But if you really want to play Pokemon with Invested Arts and catch them all, both Feruchemist and Elantrian are a great starting points as can manipulate their Connection and Identity and that might help acquiring other genetic magics from Sel or Scadrial, however it might require some non-standard workaround (WoB). You can also technically try stealing Band of Mourning and be a Fullborn as long as you have them, but that's not making you into actual Fullborn spiritually. Breaths can be bought and taken off Nalthis with little to no problem, once you have them, you are an Awakener. To become a knight Radiant you have to just convince a spren to bond you, a Connection manipulation might help (WoB). Sand Mastery from Taldain is a bit harder, we don't really know how to get them, it seems one have to be invited by the Master to become one yourself - so it might be possible to for an outsider to become a Sand Master by just getting a proper invitation - the same actually goes for becoming an Elantrian, as seen in Tress (thus starting as a Full Feruchemist is a better option as it's a little harder to become one than to become an Elantrian). To become an Aetherbound you probably need to find an Aether, be willing to serve them and be worthy of becoming their servant. Aviars are relatively easy to get, we've seen non-native people having those chickens, so they aren't really problematic to get for us. Ashyn magic is disease-based, you catch an illness, you gain powers. It might be limited through Connection, but it seems easier to get than others. Yolenish Lightweaving is probably out of your reach, we don't know anything about it except that Hoid has it. Yoki-Hijo seems to be hard to get as you have to be chosen by Spirits at birth, but maybe Connection manipulation can overcome that.

[Quantus]

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

Connection to Shards is hereditary, a Nalthian or Scadrial born outside of their planet will still have their native Shardic investiture in them, thus Connection to them and even Breath - though it might not last for many generations if they dilute their genes too much (WoB, WoB). I feel like Connection to land will also work like this. 

 

I believe these are two different circumstances.  Metallic Arts are sDNA based, but Breaths are more exclusively about being born/Connected.  However the WOB I thought confirmed it is an RAFO.  These hypothetical singers wouldnt have Nalthian sDNA but would be Native in the same way that lets you access the various Selish magics, for example.  As far as I can see only the Metallic Arts would survive with the bloodline off-world regardless of the generational gap. 

 

Quote

 

Calderis

If a tribe of singers were to worldhop to Nalthis, and live there for a few generations, would their pure singer offspring begin to be born with Breath?

Brandon Sanderson

RAFO. Good question, though. Excellent question!

Skype Q&A (Oct. 8, 2018)

 

 

[Heilven]

On 4/5/2024 at 8:48 AM, alder24 said:

To be an Elantrian you have to be born in Arelon

I was under the impression that you didn't need to be *born* in Arelon, you just needed to grow up there and have some kind of connection. For instance, part of Shai's forging to make her an Elantrian was her and her parents moving to Arelon. So even in her forgery she wasn't born there. This is a very small nitpick but I think it gets to some aspects of how connection works

[Trusk'our]

48 minutes ago, Heilven said:

I was under the impression that you didn't need to be *born* in Arelon, you just needed to grow up there and have some kind of connection. For instance, part of Shai's forging to make her an Elantrian was her and her parents moving to Arelon. So even in her forgery she wasn't born there. This is a very small nitpick but I think it gets to some aspects of how connection works

I think it means that she rewrote her past to say that her parents moved to Arelon and then she was born, thus giving her a new Connection necessary to become an Elantrian.

That was my takeaway, anyway.

[Heilven]

48 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

I think it means that she rewrote her past to say that her parents moved to Arelon and then she was born, thus giving her a new Connection necessary to become an Elantrian.

oooh wait you might be right I would have to check it. That absolutely could have been what she said

[Isilel]

6 hours ago, Heilven said:

I was under the impression that you didn't need to be *born* in Arelon, you just needed to grow up there and have some kind of connection. 

 

I thought that you needed Aonic descent? Galladon's father didn't leave Duladel until after his Shaod and IIRC it was mentioned that citizens of Teod occasionally became Elantrians too, just much more rarely than Arelonians. That's why the Fjordells wanted to exterminate them as well.

Though things may have changed between Elantris and TLM, particularly given the "invitation" mechanism demonstrated in "Tress".

[alder24]

8 hours ago, Heilven said:

I was under the impression that you didn't need to be *born* in Arelon, you just needed to grow up there and have some kind of connection. For instance, part of Shai's forging to make her an Elantrian was her and her parents moving to Arelon. So even in her forgery she wasn't born there. This is a very small nitpick but I think it gets to some aspects of how connection works

I was simplifying things a little bit. You need to have Aonic descent and live within the borders of Arleon or close by. You need to have a strong Connection to Arelon, which generally speaking means you have to be born there. 

Spoiler

Brandon Sanderson

Aons are an interesting part of this book–perhaps my favorite of the world elements. If you think about the system I've set up, you'll realize some things. First, the Aons have to be older than the Aonic language. They're based directly off of the land. So, the lines that make up the characters aren't arbitrary. Perhaps the sounds associated with them are, but the meanings–at least in part–are inherent. The scene with Raoden explaining how the Aon for "Wood" includes circles matching the forests in the land of Arelon indicates that there is a relationship between the Aons and their meanings. In addition, each Aon produces a magical effect, which would have influenced its meaning.

The second interesting fact about the Aons is that only Elantrians can draw them. And Elantrians have to come from the lands near Arelon. Teoish people can be taken, but only if they're in Arelon at the time. Genetically, then, the Teos and the Arelenes must be linked–and evidence seems to indicate that the Arelenes lived in the land first, and the Teos crossed the sea to colonize their peninsula.

Only Elantrians can draw Aons in the air, so someone taken by the Shaod must have developed the writing system. That is part of what makes writing a noble art in Arelon–drawing the Aons would have been associated with Elantrians. Most likely, the early Elantrians (who probably didn't even have Elantris back then) would have had to learn the Aons by trial and error, finding what each one did, and associating its meaning and sound with its effect. The language didn't develop, but was instead "discovered."

There are likely Aons that haven't even been found yet.

Elantris Annotations (Feb. 14, 2006)

 

7 hours ago, Heilven said:

oooh wait you might be right I would have to check it. That absolutely could have been what she said

Quote, TLM ch 53:

Quote

“I might not have all my memories,” Moonlight said. “This will completely rewrite my past. My soul will think my parents moved to a different kingdom on my homeworld, and that I was born and raised there. I will change personalities entirely. I wrote it all out, but … well, I’m never quite sure how an Essence Mark will function until I try.”