Kasimir Posted February 14 Report Share Posted February 14 1 minute ago, neil the beguiled said: not a question of lying, a question of you sheeping at the moment. so far ive not put down any information actually displaying my read and it could be a joke for all you knew. but even if it was serious, why would you sheep it when its clear from last game that im not exactl the best at reading kas here? why are you tmiing me town If you're Elim, then it's an insincere question so why bother engaging with that world? In E!you world whether or not I am obv!V doesn't matter because you have an agenda to push. The bigger point is, why should I waste my time if it's clear you won't see it anyway? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 4 minutes ago, DrakeMarshall said: look neil said you're a wolf so you're a wolf apparently now them's the breaks I prefer zenpuppy In theory We'll leave aside the fact you screwed it over so badly we got collectively punished in AG19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archer Posted February 14 Report Share Posted February 14 I have been beguiled niel Can someone check my math here (I didn't read the last game) Three elims Informant tells Contact identity of an elim (50% chance they're the Insider) Contact blabs, then we exe the elim. But holdup, now there's only two elims, so the bad one submits the NK on the remaining one and wins under the altered rules. So actually the Insider should blab and sacrifice themselves to take out... Why can't they just reveal all the identities? I could probably figure this out by reading the other game hey drake, you're evil, tell me how this works royalbee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasimir Posted February 14 Report Share Posted February 14 Edited to add: I suppose to sharpen the point: I don't presume a V!you world. You are presuming a V!you world by asking me to obv!V. If you are E, that's BS because you know my alignment. I'm pointing out that taking your presumption at face value, I don’t see why I should obv!V for you because from what I can tell, you can't recognise V me even when it was blatantly obvious — so again, why should I spend my time that way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrakeMarshall Posted February 14 Report Share Posted February 14 9 minutes ago, Kasimir said: I prefer zenpuppy In theory We'll leave aside the fact you screwed it over so badly we got collectively punished in AG19 smdh AG19??? in the grim darkness of the far future, there is only memes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasimir Posted February 14 Report Share Posted February 14 2 minutes ago, Archer said: I have been beguiled niel Can someone check my math here (I didn't read the last game) Three elims Informant tells Contact identity of an elim (50% chance they're the Insider) Contact blabs, then we exe the elim. But holdup, now there's only two elims, so the bad one submits the NK on the remaining one and wins under the altered rules. So actually the Insider should blab and sacrifice themselves to take out... Why can't they just reveal all the identities? I could probably figure this out by reading the other game hey drake, you're evil, tell me how this works royalbee Short answer: Insider is not in the doc. I think that’s what all your strategising assumes. ...Tempted to V lean but Archer rules derps regardless of alignment so it's a wash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil the beguiled Posted February 14 Report Share Posted February 14 9 minutes ago, DrakeMarshall said: look neil said you're a wolf so you're a wolf apparently now them's the breaks see: prior post from me 8 minutes ago, Kasimir said: If you're Elim, then it's an insincere question so why bother engaging with that world? In E!you world whether or not I am obv!V doesn't matter because you have an agenda to push. The bigger point is, why should I waste my time if it's clear you won't see it anyway? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I prefer zenpuppy In theory We'll leave aside the fact you screwed it over so badly we got collectively punished in AG19 okay well am I? am i coming at you in bad faith? why are you now reading me as elim from your wording ehen priorly you spoke to me as if i were town? idk im uninformed :P. regardless id like you to make your alignment obvious and you should want to make your alignment obvious *as* a villager, so to deflect in this manner is not helpful to the town wincon. Just now, Archer said: I have been beguiled niel Can someone check my math here (I didn't read the last game) Three elims Informant tells Contact identity of an elim (50% chance they're the Insider) Contact blabs, then we exe the elim. But holdup, now there's only two elims, so the bad one submits the NK on the remaining one and wins under the altered rules. So actually the Insider should blab and sacrifice themselves to take out... Why can't they just reveal all the identities? I could probably figure this out by reading the other game hey drake, you're evil, tell me how this works royalbee i have successfully pocketed archer swag. i think ideally the point of the contact is so that they can hint at reveals and also that the rest of town (and ideally actaual elims also do it for #towncred will find the answer ya? smth smth minor gambiting softing cop checks /FONT] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasimir Posted February 14 Report Share Posted February 14 Just now, DrakeMarshall said: smdh AG19??? in the grim darkness of the far future, there is only memes >> Every day we stray further from God Just now, neil the beguiled said: regardless id like you to make your alignment obvious and you should want to make your alignment obvious *as* a villager, so to deflect in this manner is not helpful to the town wincon. I don't care to Exe me if you want. 3 minutes ago, Kasimir said: Edited to add: I suppose to sharpen the point: I don't presume a V!you world. You are presuming a V!you world by asking me to obv!V. If you are E, that's BS because you know my alignment. I'm pointing out that taking your presumption at face value, I don’t see why I should obv!V for you because from what I can tell, you can't recognise V me even when it was blatantly obvious — so again, why should I spend my time that way? @neil the beguiled And maybe read this while you're at it. I haven't assigned you a read, period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil the beguiled Posted February 14 Report Share Posted February 14 1 minute ago, Kasimir said: >> Every day we stray further from God I don't care to Exe me if you want. okiiiiiiiie ~<3. kas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrakeMarshall Posted February 14 Report Share Posted February 14 1 minute ago, Kasimir said: Edited to add: I suppose to sharpen the point: I don't presume a V!you world. You are presuming a V!you world by asking me to obv!V. If you are E, that's BS because you know my alignment. I'm pointing out that taking your presumption at face value, I don’t see why I should obv!V for you because from what I can tell, you can't recognise V me even when it was blatantly obvious — so again, why should I spend my time that way? dawg if your time is so valuable why should you spend your time sharpening your point smhhh at the end of the day, you'll spend ur time how u please and that's pretty much all there is to that anyways if obvtowning was a thing people could reliably do then this wouldn't be much of a game now would it what is this conversation even 1 minute ago, neil the beguiled said: see: prior post from me i will not you can't make me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasimir Posted February 14 Report Share Posted February 14 2 minutes ago, neil the beguiled said: you should want to make your alignment obvious *as* a villager, so to deflect in this manner is not helpful to the town wincon. Also calling BS on this. Anyone not Raven who plays regularly will point out I am very good at making my alignment known so telling me I'm deflecting by directly refusing you is one hell of a slope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil the beguiled Posted February 14 Report Share Posted February 14 2 minutes ago, DrakeMarshall said: dawg if your time is so valuable why should you spend your time sharpening your point smhhh at the end of the day, you'll spend ur time how u please and that's pretty much all there is to that anyways if obvtowning was a thing people could reliably do then this wouldn't be much of a game now would it what is this conversation even i will not you can't make me DrakeMarshall 1 minute ago, Kasimir said: Also calling BS on this. Anyone not Raven who plays regularly will point out I am very good at making my alignment known so telling me I'm deflecting by directly refusing you is one hell of a slope er in that case why dont you? maybe i just shouldnt look at you d1s if that means anything (and in the ag u were obvtown but not obvkas to me, but also i was late to join game regardless? hm. idk). i dont see why i cant put pressure on you regardless because the worst thing that should happen, from my pov, is you display your alignment. aye? and if the way you respond doesnt seem villagery, then it doenst seem villagery. sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrakeMarshall Posted February 14 Report Share Posted February 14 8 minutes ago, Archer said: hey drake, you're evil, tell me how this works the village has 2 walking wincons that to varying extents know who the elim team is but if they reveal the elim team they have to reveal themselves also, they don't know the full elim team, there's 1 deepwolf member that they don't know on the other hand, the elims don't know the deepwolf either which can sometimes be just as much of an issue lol anyways with the revised rules for side b I'd say it's pretty much the Informant can reveal and sacrifice to take down the rest of the elim doc, leaving a race between the Contact and Insider, whichever gets the other first wins or they can not do that and just kinda subtly the Informant and the Contact can try to vote off the elims while the Informant tries to look evil in the elim doc frankly I think it's not a very good idea for the Contact to claim at any point because at best they can just reveal what the Informant already knows and if the Informant isn't doing it then why should the Contact, the Informant is more exposed anyway since their in a PoE size of 3 in the elim doc, even if the Contact has all the names of the elims I don't see how it makes sense for the Contact to ever claim imo anyways that's my convoluted summary you are welcome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasimir Posted February 14 Report Share Posted February 14 1 minute ago, DrakeMarshall said: dawg if your time is so valuable why should you spend your time sharpening your point smhhh Because I decided I should probably be a bit nicer given that he's going to enjoy being blatantly wrong later on, mostly. Something something principle of charity although I absolutely resent being demanded to obvV when it's clear the player in question couldn't see V me if I TEed him ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 4 minutes ago, DrakeMarshall said: anyways if obvtowning was a thing people could reliably do then this wouldn't be much of a game now would it If you do not want to see something, no amount of it will make it be seen. This is pretty much the state of the world in 2023-2024. 5 minutes ago, DrakeMarshall said: what is this conversation even I dunno bruh but could I interest you in some memes? Or a bet for the road? What about a bet on how I'll flip? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrakeMarshall Posted February 14 Report Share Posted February 14 2 minutes ago, neil the beguiled said: DrakeMarshall was this supposed to make me it won't work I aint scared of death I aint scared of anything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil the beguiled Posted February 14 Report Share Posted February 14 (edited) kas is the insider lol kas ok gn ~<3. Edited February 14 by neil the beguiled Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasimir Posted February 14 Report Share Posted February 14 (edited) 6 minutes ago, neil the beguiled said: DrakeMarshall er in that case why dont you? maybe i just shouldnt look at you d1s if that means anything (and in the ag u were obvtown but not obvkas to me, but also i was late to join game regardless? hm. idk). i dont see why i cant put pressure on you regardless because the worst thing that should happen, from my pov, is you display your alignment. aye? and if the way you respond doesnt seem villagery, then it doenst seem villagery. sad. Bruh. While I'm deliberately being annoyingly and pushing against you, I've also offered two immediate reads or at least player thoughts. Asking me why I don't do it is kind of weird because yes I'm being loudly and grumpily belligerent but I'm also playing the game the normal way. I don’t see why you are acting as if I'm not giving you anything to work with here Edited: I'd add that implying I'm saying you can't put pressure is a straw man. I'm pointing out, and I don't feel you have a convincing answer for this, that you in particular have a major issue of being unable to recognise V behaviour when it comes to me so I don't see why I should especially put in effort for you instead of doing what comes normally. 3 minutes ago, DrakeMarshall said: was this supposed to make me it won't work I aint scared of death I aint scared of anything What about Edited February 14 by Kasimir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrakeMarshall Posted February 14 Report Share Posted February 14 3 minutes ago, neil the beguiled said: i dont see why i cant put pressure on you regardless because the worst thing that should happen, from my pov, is you display your alignment. wait why is that the worst thing isn't that like pretty much the goal 3 minutes ago, Kasimir said: Because I decided I should probably be a bit nicer given that he's going to enjoy being blatantly wrong later on, mostly. Something something principle of charity although I absolutely resent being demanded to obvV when it's clear the player in question couldn't see V me if I TEed him ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ nobody is obv V i would happily kill any of you rn 3 minutes ago, Kasimir said: If you do not want to see something, no amount of it will make it be seen. well yes but it's a two-way street no? it takes effort to communicate and it takes effort to receive communication arguing over which side isn't trying hard enough is idk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil the beguiled Posted February 14 Report Share Posted February 14 Just now, DrakeMarshall said: wait why is that the worst thing isn't that like pretty much the goal goal for town, not mafia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrakeMarshall Posted February 14 Report Share Posted February 14 7 minutes ago, Kasimir said: I dunno bruh but could I interest you in some memes? Or a bet for the road? What about a bet on how I'll flip? yessir I am very interested in memes Also I'll make a bet on how you flip sure Although I'll note that the only time I ever offered a bet about my own alignment, I was very extremely Evil take that how you will! 1 minute ago, neil the beguiled said: goal for town, not mafia oh well u said it was ur pov guess ur a wolf then huh well that'd explain how you know kas is one at least Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasimir Posted February 14 Report Share Posted February 14 Just now, DrakeMarshall said: wait why is that the worst thing isn't that like pretty much the goal nobody is obv V i would happily kill any of you rn well yes but it's a two-way street no? it takes effort to communicate and it takes effort to receive communication arguing over which side isn't trying hard enough is idk Just to repeat myself one more time: 1. This is barely an hour into the game. Two tops. I don’t remotely think anyone would get an obvV this early though I really think you should know better since you know my meta. 2. Telling people they're not appearing obvV in the first two hours is kind of rich. This is an understatement. 3. As I've pointed out, I've already offered two sets of player read thoughts. Whatever you feel about my direct and belligerent pushback against Neil, it's objectively unfair to say I'm not putting in my usual work as I would contend I'm doing about as much as anyone present this far. In that regard, it's also clear misrepresentation to say I have decided I don't need to make my alignment clear. 4. I stand by what I say on not giving a f if I'm exed. I just am going to keep pointing out absurdities when I see it. 5. I don’t think it’s about who should do more. I've objectively done about as much as anyone present. I also stand by the fact that I don't feel it is in any way a good use of time or constructive to respond to a demand to obvV for Neil, given he was insisting deep into what was probably one of my more characteristically obvV games that...I wasn't readable. I can’t guarantee I'm not salty as hell about it but it's influencing my view of how much I should specifically care to be readable for him, as compared to say, the Village. 8 minutes ago, DrakeMarshall said: Although I'll note that the only time I ever offered a bet about my own alignment, I was very extremely Evil Why am I not surprised? Which game was this? 3 minutes ago, Kasimir said: I can’t guarantee I'm not salty as hell about it but it's influencing my view of how much I should specifically care to be readable for him, as compared to say, the Village. Edit: I suppose I should add that in general I think demands to be readable are a distraction anyway. As a Villager I don't care about being read as Village and that never informs my approach to the game. I just care about finding Elims. Everything else will take care of itself when you just focus on the hunt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrakeMarshall Posted February 14 Report Share Posted February 14 5 minutes ago, Kasimir said: Just to repeat myself one more time: 1. This is barely an hour into the game. Two tops. I don’t remotely think anyone would get an obvV this early though I really think you should know better since you know my meta. 2. Telling people they're not appearing obvV in the first two hours is kind of rich. This is an understatement. 3. As I've pointed out, I've already offered two sets of player read thoughts. Whatever you feel about my direct and belligerent pushback against Neil, it's objectively unfair to say I'm not putting in my usual work as I would contend I'm doing about as much as anyone present this far. In that regard, it's also clear misrepresentation to say I have decided I don't need to make my alignment clear. 4. I stand by what I say on not giving a f if I'm exed. I just am going to keep pointing out absurdities when I see it. 5. I don’t think it’s about who should do more. I've objectively done about as much as anyone present. I also stand by the fact that I don't feel it is in any way a good use of time or constructive to respond to a demand to obvV for Neil, given he was insisting deep into what was probably one of my more characteristically obvV games that...I wasn't readable. I can’t guarantee I'm not salty as hell about it but it's influencing my view of how much I should specifically care to be readable for him, as compared to say, the Village. sir when have i indicated that im holding you to some standard where you specifically have to be obv V or else im voting for you why is this a thing you are replying @ me about smh >:(. 12 minutes ago, Kasimir said: I can’t guarantee I'm not salty as hell about it but it's influencing my view of how much I should specifically care to be readable for him, as compared to say, the Village. I mean I think the larger point here is there's almost never really a good reason to put in special effort to be readable to 1 specific player if they are good at reading you then they likely don't need it if they are bad at reading you then it likely won't help 13 minutes ago, Kasimir said: Why am I not surprised? Which game was this? Zelda game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasimir Posted February 14 Report Share Posted February 14 Just now, DrakeMarshall said: sir when have i indicated that im holding you to some standard where you specifically have to be obv V or else im voting for you why is this a thing you are replying @ me about smh >:(. I'm basically clarifying the actual grounds of the clash as you presented it as a two way street. I disagree with that characterisation. I also imagined Illwei Illweing again with regard to yOu sAiD yoU doN't CaRe AbOuT beInG voTeD sO WHy aRE yOu rEspoNDing BS argument from the start of AG10 so I further added in points to block that sidetrack since I then expected Neil to go there. I also expect him to go into the tone/defensiveness issue yet again and might be willing to place a bet on it It's a career hazard—half the point of a good philosophy paper is to pre-empt objections and dispatch them ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Edited to add: I suppose you could say your post was just a convenient jumping off point since I didn't agree with your construal of the disagreement 28 minutes ago, DrakeMarshall said: well yes but it's a two-way street no? it takes effort to communicate and it takes effort to receive communication This IMO directly implies you think I think that there's no point putting effort in. So I was clarifying what I mean and specifically I'm a cynic (neilhilist?) about putting that in for specific players but not so much in general. And anyway as I said before in multiple games I just find the notion distasteful compared to actually solving. Edited to add 2: Looks like Stick and Faerie are in a doc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil the beguiled Posted February 14 Report Share Posted February 14 4 minutes ago, Kasimir said: I'm basically clarifying the actual grounds of the clash as you presented it as a two way street. I disagree with that characterisation. I also imagined Illwei Illweing again with regard to yOu sAiD yoU doN't CaRe AbOuT beInG voTeD sO WHy aRE yOu rEspoNDing BS argument from the start of AG10 so I further added in points to block that sidetrack since I then expected Neil to go there. I also expect him to go into the tone/defensiveness issue yet again and might be willing to place a bet on it It's a career hazard—half the point of a good philosophy paper is to pre-empt objections and dispatch them ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Edited to add: I suppose you could say your post was just a convenient jumping off point since I didn't agree with your construal of the disagreement im ngl I don’t believe half the words I’m even saying at this point bc I forgot. Idk man you didn’t rlly go down the method that I thought u would which is kind of like. Lol. But does that mean I am thinking too much about that and am as a result narrow minded, or is your lack of assumed reaction AI and deserving of a push? I’m not like. Okay how do I. I cannot read, like at any given point and a result of my tunnel vision is that I’ve overlooked any of your other reads or inputs into the game (or dismissed them). and huff! I used to be a goalie, and the first rule of being a goalie is be unpredictable. So :P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stick. Posted February 14 Report Share Posted February 14 RoyalBeeMage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil the beguiled Posted February 14 Report Share Posted February 14 (edited) 1 hour ago, RoyalBeeMage said: ok. lets try and do this properly. i am not an octant. unrelated but 10 bucks on stick reading this and saying: villager (edit I just saw stick post and I’m sad) edit2: I was waiting for someone to post so I could post that and I didn’t expect it to be stick and for me to be wrong so what’s going on in here Edited February 14 by neil the beguiled Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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