Nearer the Flame

[Voidlit Man he/him]

Hi, I'm new to this site, so I might do something wrong.  In the first book, when Shallan is buying books in order to impress Jasnah, the bookseller offers her romance novels and she says that she would like a copy of Nearer the Flame as a joke.  The book is described as a man's descent into madness while watching his children starve.  All the books in Stormlight so far have been named after in-world books, so my thought is that this might be the name of the book in which Jasnah is the main character, seeing as how she seems to have had some nebulous mental illness as a child, and that this is one of the first chapters about Jasnah, as well as the fact that it is a well known literary classic in world that she would likely be familiar with as a child, seeing as how she was rich and an aspiring scholar.

[Green Hoodie Mistborn he/him]

That's an interesting theory and welcome to the site!

Personally I've always read it as a joke/not joke or allegory that told us before we knew it about Shallan's history/past

Her father descended into madness while he watched his children starve emotionally to the point where more than one of them died or nearly died and who knows what would have happened had Shallan not saved them from their father and themselves

[Voidlit Man he/him]

Interesting! If it is an allegory, I would love to see Brandon Sanderson revisit it, and explain the book more.  Either way, Nearer the Flame is too good a title to waste on just a throwaway line by Shallan

[The Honorable One he/him]

23 hours ago, Voidlit Man said:

Hi, I'm new to this site, so I might do something wrong.  In the first book, when Shallan is buying books in order to impress Jasnah, the bookseller offers her romance novels and she says that she would like a copy of Nearer the Flame as a joke.  The book is described as a man's descent into madness while watching his children starve.  All the books in Stormlight so far have been named after in-world books, so my thought is that this might be the name of the book in which Jasnah is the main character, seeing as how she seems to have had some nebulous mental illness as a child, and that this is one of the first chapters about Jasnah, as well as the fact that it is a well known literary classic in world that she would likely be familiar with as a child, seeing as how she was rich and an aspiring scholar.

This is certainly an interesting theory. However, I don't think that that will be the case.

If you look at all the other titles (The Way of Kings, Words of Radiance, Oathbringer, and Rhythm of War), all of them are books that greatly impacted the characters. Dalinar spent so much time studying The Way of Kings as Gavilar did before him. Jasnah gave Shallan Words of Radiance, and when Shallan eventually read it, it gave her a lot of information about the Radiants of old. Oathbringer was of course pivotal to Dalinar's development, seeing as he wrote it. And Rhythm of War was the notebook where Navani and Raboniel kept all of their notes about the Lights of Roshar.

Personally, I don't think Jasnah will be particularly inspired by a romance novel, though I agree it's a cool title.

[Voidlit Man he/him]

I'd have to look through my First Way of Kings book again, but I'm pretty sure that Nearer the Flame is described as a classic book of literature about a man watching his family starve to death and going mad, which is why Shallan juxtaposes this with the romance novels the merchant was trying to sell.  I could totally see Jasnah never reading this, or this never being all that influential to her, but the 5th book of Stormlight was also planned to be called Stones Unhallowed, which is a book that Jasnah mentions in her reading, so it's not unheard of for Sanderson to foreshadow book titles like this

[alder24]

12 hours ago, Voidlit Man said:

I'd have to look through my First Way of Kings book again, but I'm pretty sure that Nearer the Flame is described as a classic book of literature about a man watching his family starve to death and going mad

It seems like it is still a romance, but written from a male's perspective, WoK ch 8:

Quote

His tone set her on edge. It was galling enough to know she was a sheltered child. Was it really necessary to remind her of it? “A romantic novel,” she said, holding her satchel close to her chest. “Yes, perhaps that would be nice. Do you by chance have a copy of Nearer the Flame?”
The merchant blinked. Nearer the Flame was written from the viewpoint of a man who slowly descended into madness after watching his children starve.
“Are you certain you want something so, er, ambitious?” the man asked.

Or it was just Shallan being sarcastic. No indication that it's classic literature. 

I don't think this will be a title for Jasnah's book. Jasnah will probably write her own book, like Dalinar and Navani, and that will be the title of her SA book. She is a very accomplished scholar and now a ruler and I don't expect that she will be interested in a fictional, romantic novella, nor that she will draw inspiration from a work like that. We're talking about the last book of the Stormlight Archive series, it's going to be grand, it's going to be special, revolving around Shards, Heralds and the future of Roshar and Cosmere. Nearer the flame is not even related to any of this, it's not even personally related to Jasnah.

13 hours ago, Voidlit Man said:

but the 5th book of Stormlight was also planned to be called Stones Unhallowed, which is a book that Jasnah mentions in her reading, so it's not unheard of for Sanderson to foreshadow book titles like this

Chapter or quote? There is no mention of Stones Unhallowed as a title of a book, the only 2 mentions I've found are those:

Quote

“Urithiru was the connection to all nations,” she read from the Shin writer’s work. “And, at times, our only path to the outside world, with its stones unhallowed.” She looked up at Pattern. “What does that mean to you?” - WoR ch 47, this is a poetic description of Urithiru.

Dalinar Kholin. Knight Radiant. He would know.
This choice was not perfect. But … Stones Unhallowed … it was the best he could manage. It brought him some small measure of peace as he swept through the enemy army. - OB ch 118, Szeth's PoV, this is a Shin curse phrase.

[bmcclure7]

On 1/4/2024 at 1:13 PM, Voidlit Man said:

Hi, I'm new to this site, so I might do something wrong.  In the first book, when Shallan is buying books in order to impress Jasnah, the bookseller offers her romance novels and she says that she would like a copy of Nearer the Flame as a joke.  The book is described as a man's descent into madness while watching his children starve.  All the books in Stormlight so far have been named after in-world books, so my thought is that this might be the name of the book in which Jasnah is the main character, seeing as how she seems to have had some nebulous mental illness as a child, and that this is one of the first chapters about Jasnah, as well as the fact that it is a well known literary classic in world that she would likely be familiar with as a child, seeing as how she was rich and an aspiring scholar.

 Is my personal theory is that Jasnah  Will die in book 5,  And her book will be someone from the second generation reading her journal.

[Ookla she/her]

14 minutes ago, bmcclure7 said:

 Is my personal theory is that Jasnah  Will die in book 5,  And her book will be someone from the second generation reading her journal.

(Gasp!) Heresy! Jasnah Kholin must not die! Sanderson has already toyed with my emotions on that front once; he doesn't need to do it again.

(Hmm, I wonder what would happen if Jasnah ended up as one of the champions in the Contest... But that's a topic for a different thread. )

[bmcclure7]

47 minutes ago, Ookla said:

(Gasp!) Heresy! Jasnah Kholin must not die! Sanderson has already toyed with my emotions on that front once; he doesn't need to do it again.

(Hmm, I wonder what would happen if Jasnah ended up as one of the champions in the Contest... But that's a topic for a different thread. )

 I think Jasnah  Is too cool too smart too powerful stay alive for long especially since we need to make room for a second generation. 

[Voidlit Man he/him]

 

1 hour ago, bmcclure7 said:

 Is my personal theory is that Jasnah  Will die in book 5,  And her book will be someone from the second generation reading her journal.

Honestly, I'm not the biggest fan of Jasnah, it frustrated me that she got her plate first, but I still don't want her to die because I appreciate the unique viewpoint she brings to Stormlight.  She thinks like no other character in Fantasy.  I could totally see Brandon killing her before she is able to change Alethkar in a lasting way, but that would be tragic.

[Pineap-spider Pineapple/Spider]

1 hour ago, bmcclure7 said:

 I think Jasnah  Is too cool too smart too powerful stay alive for long especially since we need to make room for a second generation. 

 

1 hour ago, Ookla said:

(Gasp!) Heresy! Jasnah Kholin must not die! Sanderson has already toyed with my emotions on that front once; he doesn't need to do it again.

(Hmm, I wonder what would happen if Jasnah ended up as one of the champions in the Contest... But that's a topic for a different thread. )

 

38 minutes ago, Voidlit Man said:

 

Honestly, I'm not the biggest fan of Jasnah, it frustrated me that she got her plate first, but I still don't want her to die because I appreciate the unique viewpoint she brings to Stormlight.  She thinks like no other character in Fantasy.  I could totally see Brandon killing her before she is able to change Alethkar in a lasting way, but that would be tragic.

I agree with Voidlit. Jasnah is my least favorite character in any Brandon Sanderson book. While I don't think Jasnah will die, I wouldn't be sad if she did (the whole Jasnah + Hoid is gross.) I do think, despite my dislike of her, Jasnah is a vital and unique character.  Jasnah needed an arc, or at least a little character development, before she got her shards. Just saying that she's the best is SO boring. 

Alternatively, I think it would be really interesting if Jasnah implements some plan, and they back fire, or she does SOMETHING poorly, and she can go insane, or get depressed, or do something. I really dislike her character, and think she could be better.

On 1/6/2024 at 6:52 AM, alder24 said:

Chapter or quote? There is no mention of Stones Unhallowed as a title of a book, the only 2 mentions I've found are those:

Here's some WoB talking about the title of the third book

Quote

Questioner

What's your working title for the third book [of The Stormlight Archive]?

Brandon Sanderson

It has two. The original working title was Stones Unhallowed. However, [Patrick] Rothfuss is using Doors of Stone, and I kind of feel like I might want to do something different, so my interim title is Skybreaker, but it has to be an in-world book. The in-world book for book 3 is kind of a different one, so I can do a lot with it, but Stones Unhallowed is easier.

Questioner

I was gonna ask if this was gonna be a trend for the whole series--

Brandon Sanderson

It is going to be a trend.

Words of Radiance Philadelphia signing (March 21, 2014)

 

Edited January 10 by Pineap-spider

[+Oltux72 he/him]

17 minutes ago, Pineap-spider said:

I agree with Voidlit. Jasnah is my least favorite character in any Brandon Sanderson book. While I don't think Jasnah will die, I wouldn't be sad if she did (the whole Jasnah + Hoid is gross.) I do think, despite my dislike of her, Jasnah is a vital and unique character.  Jasnah needed an arc, or at least a little character development, before she got her shards. Just saying that she's the best is SO boring. 

Alternatively, I think it would be really interesting if Jasnah implements some plan, and they back fire, or she does SOMETHING poorly, and she can go insane, or get depressed, or do something. I really dislike her character, and think she could be better.

Well, freeing the slaves may backfire spectacularly.

[alder24]

27 minutes ago, Pineap-spider said:

Jasnah needed an arc, or at least a little character development, before she got her shards. Just saying that she's the best is SO boring. 

The point is Jasnah is not the best. "Power is an illusion of perception" - people think she is "the best" but she really isn't. There were several moments when Jasnah's facade just dropped and she exposed her true self to others, mainly to Shallan. She got her bond the earliest of all characters, except for Shallan and possibly Szeth, but her bond persisted and she had a lot of time to figure it out and advance in her Oaths. Still, she'd sworn the 4th Ideal in between OB and RoW, that's very recently. Right now she is a background character, not a lot of arc and development is going on, but in the future she will probably have a bigger role, her traumatic past will get explored and she will get a true arc. 

And true, I'm not a fan of Jasnah and Hoid relationship too.