Issues with the chronology of the Iriali (No SA5 Previews)

[JPGU]

With what we know so far about the Iriali (everything published but without advances) it seems to me that either the chronology does not fit in any way or there is more than one group of Iriali in the cosmere and I came to this conclusion because of the group in lumar and its apparent relationship with xixis/foil.

 

First we know that by the time Tress occurs the Iriali had been gone approximately 300 years ago and that it has some connection with the arrival of Xixis to the planet, the problem with this is that in the ars arcanum of rhythm of war Khriss mentions that the Navani's recent discoveries about anti-investiture can help Foil's research to control the Aether's in their sea and we know that Foil is Xixis, so by the time of SA4 and SA5 Xixis is already in Lumar, therefore the Iriali should have left of the planet recently or about to do so but at the same time they are in Roshar.

 

So I put this post to say that I believe that the Iriali in Lumar and the Iriali in Roshar are not the same, I would like to see if anyone knows of anything that refutes this theory because I have been thinking about it for a while and I can't think of anything.

[alder24]

44 minutes ago, JPGU said:

First we know that by the time Tress occurs the Iriali had been gone approximately 300 years ago and that it has some connection with the arrival of Xixis to the planet, the problem with this is that in the ars arcanum of rhythm of war Khriss mentions that the Navani's recent discoveries about anti-investiture can help Foil's research to control the Aether's in their sea and we know that Foil is Xixis, so by the time of SA4 and SA5 Xixis is already in Lumar, therefore the Iriali should have left of the planet recently or about to do so but at the same time they are in Roshar.

Who told you that by the time of RoW Foil studies Aethers on Lumar and not on some other planet? There are multiple Aether planets in Cosmere. He might study Aethers in other places and then he moved to Lumar to study the parasitic strain of Aethers.

Moreover the way this passage in Ars Arcanum is written seems to suggest something different:

Quote

However, I find electrifying the news out of the mountains of Ur, that their current queen seems to have been able to Command the creation of an anti-Investiture. Long theorized, this will be my first true evidence it is possible—and can only be created through Intent.
I think that perhaps Foil, deep within his ocean, would find this information supports my theories over his. And he’d do well to listen to me on this matter if he ever wishes to achieve control over the aethers, as he has insisted is his goal.

In Tress we see him having a great deal of control over Aethers, being able to create his habitat under Aethers spores. When Khriss is writing this (unknown date) Xisis still has not achieved his goal of controlling Aethers, thus he might be unable to settle underneath the seas. This implies that he first needs to accept Khriss' theories, learn how to control Aethers, then move to the Lumar seas, because without control over Aethers, he can't build his palace underneath the spores. Truthfully this is all open to interpretation.

45 minutes ago, JPGU said:

So I put this post to say that I believe that the Iriali in Lumar and the Iriali in Roshar are not the same, I would like to see if anyone knows of anything that refutes this theory because I have been thinking about it for a while and I can't think of anything.

I've always been skeptical of the idea of two separate groups of Iriali migrating with the same ideology. There is certainly something going on with their migration and their religion is very specific about it. Having two different groups of Iriali jumping around totally different planets is weird in my opinion, and stretches too much. They all have to attend all seven lands before they will become One again, but there are two different sets of seven? 

In TLM there is mention of Iraili presence on Scadrial, which seems to indicate that Scadrial is one of the Lands on their Long Trail. Would that mean there are 3 groups of Iriali? TLM ch 32:

Quote

“So,” she said, running a hand through her disheveled hair, “you know who killed Tobal? Was it those people with the golden hair living on the east side? They’re some kind of fairy creature; I know it.”

 

Admittedly there is very little information on Iriali and Xisis. They aren't important now, they will be in the future. It’s hard to say something for certain right now, all is possible. We’ll have to wait and see, or ask Brandon and find out.

[JPGU]

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33 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Who told you that by the time of RoW Foil studies Aethers on Lumar and not on some other planet? There are multiple Aether planets in Cosmere. He might study Aethers in other places and then he moved to Lumar to study the parasitic strain of Aethers.

 

The fact that Khriss mentions an ocean in which Foil is studying how to control the Aethers and later in the chronology we see Xixis living in an ocean where he studies the Aethers and shows he can control them seems to me to be a clear allusion to Lumar being the place where Foil/Xixis is at the moment that ars arcanum is written.

Quote

42 minutes ago, alder24 said:

In Tress we see him having a great deal of control over Aethers, being able to create his habitat under Aethers spores. When Khriss is writing this (unknown date) Xisis still has not achieved his goal of controlling Aethers, thus he might be unable to settle underneath the seas. This implies that he first needs to accept Khriss' theories, learn how to control Aethers, then move to the Lumar seas, because without control over Aethers, he can't build his palace underneath the spores. Truthfully this is all open to interpretation.

 

Secondly, while it is true that Xixis without control of the Aethers SHOULD not be able to make his palace Khriss specifically says "Foil, deep within his ocean" that to me sounds like he is already installed in Lumar probably not in the same way that we see in Tress but it is on the planet.

But what I wanted to discuss is not how or when Xixis learned to master the Aethers but rather if the Iriali leave Lumar not long after Xixis's arrival and he was already there by the time of Rhythm of war then those iriali cannot be the same as those in Roshar.

55 minutes ago, alder24 said:

I've always been skeptical of the idea of two separate groups of Iriali migrating with the same ideology. There is certainly something going on with their migration and their religion is very specific about it. Having two different groups of Iriali jumping around totally different planets is weird in my opinion, and stretches too much. They all have to attend all seven lands before they will become One again, but there are two different sets of seven? 

In TLM there is mention of Iraili presence on Scadrial, which seems to indicate that Scadrial is one of the Lands on their Long Trail. Would that mean there are 3 groups of Iriali? TLM ch 32:

I'm also not very sure about the idea that there are several Iriali groups but it is the only conclusion I could come to, although your idea that Xixis could be studying the Aethers on another planet before Lumar seems to me to be able to answer my doubts. It doesn't quite add up to me because of the issue I mentioned before, which sounds too similar to Lumar in the ars arcanum, but it does seem like a good answer to me.

 

Regarding the supposed Iriali of Scadrial, if they really are, it doesn't seem to me that they are a third group because those do fit with the chronology if this is their next land after Roshar.

 

Quote

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

Admittedly there is very little information on Iriali and Xisis. They aren't important now, they will be in the future. It’s hard to say something for certain right now, all is possible. We’ll have to wait and see, or ask Brandon and find out.

 

Yes, you're right about that, I just wanted to talk about this and see what conclusions other people came to.

[Green Hoodie Mistborn he/him]

On 11/30/2023 at 11:08 AM, JPGU said:

Regarding the supposed Iriali of Scadrial, if they really are, it doesn't seem to me that they are a third group because those do fit with the chronology if this is their next land after Roshar.

Agreed, Era2 is supposed to fall in the SA5 to 6 gap

I very much assumed that the Ars reference was to Xixis in Lumar (once that book came out) but Xixis has been on Lumar for at least 300 years by the time of Tress!

I'm of the mind that either Lumar is after Roshar in their Long Trail or there are multiple groups of them out there, it's the only way the timeline can work because they were on Roshar for a LONG time as far as we know

[IlstrawberrySeed]

How do we know that Foil hasn't been there long enough that the Irali left Lumar to go to Roshar? Or that he arived that early, left, and came back more recently?

[alder24]

45 minutes ago, IlstrawberrySeed said:

How do we know that Foil hasn't been there long enough that the Irali left Lumar to go to Roshar? Or that he arived that early, left, and came back more recently?

The story takes place in the future. Awakened, sentient AI on a rocketship is a dead giveaway. Not to mention Tress mentioning "Death with spikes in his eyes". Iriali came to Roshar thousands of years ago, long enough to create one of the Silver Kingdoms - which was pre-Aharietiam.

[IlstrawberrySeed]

On 12/4/2023 at 10:27 AM, alder24 said:

The story takes place in the future. Awakened, sentient AI on a rocketship is a dead giveaway. Not to mention Tress mentioning "Death with spikes in his eyes". Iriali came to Roshar thousands of years ago, long enough to create one of the Silver Kingdoms - which was pre-Aharietiam.

I know both of those. If all we know is that Foil got there roughly the time the Irali left, then how do we know that he hasn't been there since before the sliver kingdoms?

[alder24]

1 minute ago, IlstrawberrySeed said:

I know both of those. If all we know is that Foil got there roughly the time the Irali left, then how do we know that he hasn't been there since before the sliver kingdoms?

Because rockets, AI and Marsh didn't exist back then...

[IlstrawberrySeed]

@alder24 How do we know Foil got there after those were invented?

I'm probably forgetting something, but I don't remember anything specifying how long ago they left other than when Foil arrived.

I want to be clear, I understand when Tress takes place - Era 4, and that the Irali migration to Roshar is Era 0 (Pre Era 1). I'm asking how we know that Foil's arrival & the Irali departed during era 0?

Edited December 6, 2023 by IlstrawberrySeed

[alder24]

15 minutes ago, IlstrawberrySeed said:

@alder24 How do we know Foil got there after those were invented?

I'm probably forgetting something, but I don't remember anything specifying how long ago they left other than when Foil arrived.

That explains everything.

Tress ch 2:

Quote

“It’s old Iriali,” he said. “They vanished, you know. The entire people: poof. There one day, gone the next, their island left uninhabited. Now, that was three hundred years ago, so no one alive has ever met one of them, but they supposedly had golden hair. Like yours, the color of sunlight.”

ch 31:

Quote

Xisisrefliel lives beneath the spores in a palace that somehow exists on the bottom of the Crimson Sea. Though his age is unknown, he has lived in that same spot for at least three hundred years.

 

Spoiler

Escovar

The Iriali left at least three hundred years prior to Tress's story. Xisis was said to have been on Lumar for at least three hundred years, by Crow's book. Is the arrival of Xisis and departure of the Iriali significantly related?

Brandon Sanderson

I did that intentionally, yes.

Tress Spoiler Stream (March 31, 2023)

 

[IlstrawberrySeed]

On 12/6/2023 at 10:51 AM, alder24 said:

That explains everything.

Tress ch 2:

ch 31:

 

  Hide contents

Escovar

The Iriali left at least three hundred years prior to Tress's story. Xisis was said to have been on Lumar for at least three hundred years, by Crow's book. Is the arrival of Xisis and departure of the Iriali significantly related?

Brandon Sanderson

I did that intentionally, yes.

Tress Spoiler Stream (March 31, 2023)

 

Ah. Ok.

[Isilel]

On 12/4/2023 at 7:27 PM, alder24 said:

 Iriali came to Roshar thousands of years ago, long enough to create one of the Silver Kingdoms - which was pre-Aharietiam.

Can we be sure that the Silver Kingdoms as we know them were founded before Aharietam? I always thought it very odd that the map of them left no room for the singer polities. Also, for instance, the ethnic make-up of Natan people drastically changed at some point - in Dalinar's vision they hadn't been blue-skinned. I also don't remember any Iriali featuring in his visions of Heraldic Epochs or at all, really.

Iriali being stuck for more than 4.5 millenia on Roschar seems disproportionally long to me, compared to the 3 other "lands" that they must have lived in previously. IMHO, given how little information survived from the distant past, it makes much more sense for them to have arrived after Aharietam, when most of the continent was depopulated and in shambles so that a new large group could have appeared and settled without much friction or comment.

Re: the idea of there being more than one group of Iriali travelling through cosmere - maybe? At the very least, they must have left chunks of their population behind at most of their stops, since they have a whole large country on Roschar, but fit on a single Island on Lumar. And, presumably, Rirans, who are of mixed heritage, haven't been invited along.

 

[alder24]

2 hours ago, Isilel said:

Can we be sure that the Silver Kingdoms as we know them were founded before Aharietam?

More or less yes, WoK ch 19:

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“I must know,” Dalinar said, feeling foolish. “What year is it?”
The knight turned to him. Her helm was gone. He blinked; when had that happened? Unlike her companion, she had light skin—not pale like someone from Shinovar, but a natural light tan, like an Alethi. “It is Eighth Epoch, three thirty-seven.”
Eighth Epoch? Dalinar thought. What does that mean? This vision had been dierent from the others. They had been more brief, for one thing. And the voice that spoke to him. Where was it?
“Where am I?” Dalinar asked the knight. “What kingdom?”
The knight frowned. “Are you not healed?”
“I am well. I just … I need to know. Which kingdom am I in?”
“This is Natanatan.”
Dalinar released an inhaled breath. Natanatan. The Shattered Plains lay in the land that had once been Natanatan. The kingdom had fallen centuries ago.
“And you fight for Natanatan’s king?” he asked.
She laughed. “The Knights Radiant fight for no king and for all of them.”
“Then where do you live?”
“Urithiru is where our orders are centered, but we live in cities all across Alethela.”
Dalinar froze in place. Alethela. It was the historical name for the place that had become Alethkar. “You cross kingdom borders to ght?”
[...]
“I’m ne,” Dalinar said. “Alethk … Alethela. You live there?”
“It is our duty and our privilege,” the woman said, “to stay vigilant for the Desolation. One kingdom to study the arts of war so that the others might have peace. We die so that you may live. It has ever been our place.”
Dalinar stood still, sorting through that.
“All who can fight are needed,” the woman said. “And all who have a desire to ght should be compelled to come to Alethela. Fighting, even this fighting against the Ten Deaths, changes a person. We can teach you so that it will not destroy you. Come to us.”
Dalinar found himself nodding.
“Every pasture needs three things,” the woman said, voice changing, as if she were quoting from memory. “Flocks to grow, herdsmen to tend, and watchers at the rim. We of Alethela are those watchers—the warriors who protect and fight. We maintain the terrible arts of killing, then pass them on to others when the Desolation comes.”
“The Desolation,” he said. “That means the Voidbringers, right? Those are what we fought this night?”
The knight snied dismissively. “Voidbringers? These? No, this was Midnight Essence, though who released it is still a mystery.” She looked to the side, expression growing distant. “Harkaylain says the Desolation is close, and he is not often wrong. He—"

The Starfalls vision is set during the Heraldic Epoch. First evidence of this is "the 8th Epoch" where Epoch is a period between Desolations. The Heraldic Epoch ended with Aharietam, when the Era of Solitude started. Here it was even said that the Desolation is near. We also have the names of Alethela and Natanatan, which are two Silver Kingdoms. Iri was one of the Silver Kingdoms too, and that means Iriali were not only pre-Aharietam but further back in the past, possibly when Radiants were first established and the Silver Kingdoms rose. They wouldn't call it Iri if there were no Iriali there.

[Isilel]

K@alder24:

This only tells us about 2 Kingdoms, one of which has later undergone a drastic  change in it's ethnic and cultural make-up. Dalinar didn't recognize his location for a good reason.

Anyway, no maps made during that period have been provided. Maps of the Silver Kingdoms that we are familiar with date from the Era of Solitude. Even then it is odd that no singer territories are included, so perhaps they were produced after the final victory over - and lobotomization of the Parsh, but before the Recreance?

At no point do Iriali appear in Dalinar's visions, nor does it make sense for them to have spent about half of post-Shattering time-line on beleaguered Roschar, after leaving the 3 previous ones much more quickly, IMHO. 

 

[The Stick77]

On 12/4/2023 at 1:27 PM, alder24 said:

Not to mention Tress mentioning "Death with spikes in his eyes

There’s been some discussion of how ironeyes became a symbol on other worlds but I just realized it’s probably the Iriali. We already figured they likely went to Scadrial next so when they later moved to Lumar years later it makes sense certain cultural things would be influenced. I dunno if that’s been thought of before. 

[alder24]

55 minutes ago, Isilel said:

This only tells us about 2 Kingdoms, one of which has later undergone a drastic  change in it's ethnic and cultural make-up.

Drastic change? Natan people have blue skin because they are a hybrid of Aimian and humans, just like Herdazians and Horneaters are hybrids of humans and Singers. Something like that doesn't happen overnight, it's a gradual change over hundreds of years. The whole kingdom of Natanatan later entirely collapsed - and that's a drastic change.

Spoiler

Chris Hansen

Are either the blue-skinned Natans or blue-veined Babatharnams human-Aimian hybrids?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

#SandersonChat Twitter Q&A with Audible.com (Feb. 4, 2016)

If Iriali came later, after Silver Kingdoms were already established by Heralds according to myths, they would have settled in a place that already had a name, and that Silver Kingdom would not be named Iri.

42 minutes ago, Isilel said:

Dalinar didn't recognize his location for a good reason.

Because it was thousands of years ago in the middle of the night while he was fighting for his lif, during one of the earliest Desolations (338th year of the 8th Epoch, which means it was around 8th Desolation, there were more than 15 less than 50 Desolations in total per WoB)? Do you expect him to be able to perfectly recognize every single location on Roshar in whatever time period he is thrown into?

45 minutes ago, Isilel said:

Anyway, no maps made during that period have been provided. Maps of the Silver Kingdoms that we are familiar with date from the Era of Solitude.

What is your source on that? We don't know when the WoK map was made and the same goes for the OB map. It's possible they were both made during the Heraldic Epoch, when the Silver Kingdoms were the most important. 

52 minutes ago, Isilel said:

Even then it is odd that no singer territories are included, so perhaps they were produced after the final victory over - and lobotomization of the Parsh, but before the Recreance?

Those two events happened more or less at the same time. The Recreance was most likely a direct response (or rather the last link in the chain of events) to the imprisonment of BAM and the effects it had on Roshar and Parsh.

And I agree, it's a very interesting question, what was happening with Singers in between Desolations? There was some contact between them and humans, not only because of intermixing resulting in Herdazians and Horneaters, but also Radiants during Recreance knew that Singers call themselves Parsh now. They most definitely were part of existing human kingdoms - after all Roshar was conquered by humans.

53 minutes ago, Isilel said:

At no point do Iriali appear in Dalinar's visions,

You also don't see Singers in Dalinar's vision, does this mean they are a later development? Visions are meant to teach Dalinar a lesson, not to give him a tourist trip around Roshar, showing him every land and race living there. Not every person in Ire even is Iriali, and only one vision was in Ire (we actually don't know that for sure, we know it was in the direction of Ire's capital) - the Feverstone Keep vision, which happened during the False Desolation, 2000 years into the Era of Solitude.

53 minutes ago, Isilel said:

nor does it make sense for them to have spent about half of post-Shattering time-line on beleaguered Roschar, after leaving the 3 previous ones much more quickly, IMHO. 

I see no issues here. We don't know why Iriali decides to leave in search of the next Land but it looks like it's not their decision to make.

 

 

2 minutes ago, The Stick77 said:

There’s been some discussion of how ironeyes became a symbol on other worlds but I just realized it’s probably the Iriali. We already figured they likely went to Scadrial next so when they later moved to Lumar years later it makes sense certain cultural things would be influenced. I dunno if that’s been thought of before. 

But this is happening even before TLM as that's what's written in Ars Arcanum:

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I have, after lengthy questing, obtained an interview with Marsh, the one known as Ironeyes on Scadrial. (As a side note, it is curious how news of his nature is spreading to other worlds. Is this natural rumormongering, or something more supernatural?)

 

[therunner he/him]

12 hours ago, alder24 said:

If Iriali came later, after Silver Kingdoms were already established by Heralds according to myths, they would have settled in a place that already had a name, and that Silver Kingdom would not be named Iri.

Not necessarily, the kingdom could be named Iri, and Iriali could then take their name from the kingdom in which they found refuge.
I doubt they call themselves Iriali on Scadrial, or Lumar.

Nations, and societies change names, so it stands to reason Iriali could also simply change their names. Just because we know them as Iriali first, does not mean that is their original name.

[Treamayne]

2 hours ago, therunner said:

I doubt they call themselves Iriali on Scadrial, or Lumar.

Yes, they were specifically called Iriali on Lumar:

Spoiler

Tress Ch 2:

On 12/6/2023 at 1:51 PM, alder24 said:

“It’s old Iriali,” he said. “They vanished, you know. The entire people: poof. There one day, gone the next, their island left uninhabited. Now, that was three hundred years ago, so no one alive has ever met one of them, but they supposedly had golden hair. Like yours, the color of sunlight.”

 

 

[therunner he/him]

8 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

Yes, they were specifically called Iriali on Lumar:

  Hide contents

Tress Ch 2:

 

 

Thank you for the correction!
In that case it is basically certain they stayed on Roshar far longer than on other planets, and quite likely that Iri is named after them and not vice versa.

[..... he/him]

On 1/7/2024 at 12:05 PM, Isilel said:

At no point do Iriali appear in Dalinar's visions

I'm pretty sure they appear in the prologue to kelek sees one walking away from the battle in shardplate talking with two other people not in shardplate, I can't find the book quote because I don't have the book so I can't check but I'm pretty sure it's there.

[Treamayne]

1 hour ago, ..... said:

I'm pretty sure they appear in the prologue to kelek sees one walking away from the battle in shardplate talking with two other people not in shardplate, I can't find the book quote because I don't have the book so I can't check but I'm pretty sure it's there.

Inconclusive. Here's the section (Prelude to the Stormlight Archive - WoK):

Spoiler

Kalak turned and walked to the side, where a low ridge overlooked part of the battlefield.

There were so many corpses, and among them walked the living. Men in primitive wraps, carrying spears topped by bronze heads. Juxtaposed between them were others in gleaming plate armor. One group walked past, four men in their ragged tanned skins or shoddy leather joining a powerful figure in beautiful silver plate, amazingly intricate. Such a contrast.

Jezrien stepped up beside him.

No mention of hair color or other nationality markers. The only references to Iriali in WoK that I can find are in Axies the Collector's Interlude, the Stablemaster in the Saddle investigation (WoK Ch 18), and Kaladin riding the Storm (Ch 46):

Spoiler

Ch 18:

Quote

The other leatherworker nodded. Yis was a yellow-eyed Iriali, with stark golden hair. Not blond, golden. There was even a metallic sheen to it. He kept it short and wore a cap. Obviously, he didn’t want to draw attention to it. Many considered a lock of Iriali hair to be a ward of good luck.

Ch 46:

Quote

Kaladin knew he would pass quickly, for as the storm, he could not retreat. Ever westward he blew.

He threw open the door with his wind, entering a long hallway with bright red tile walls, mosaic murals that he passed too quickly to make out. He rustled the skirts of tall, golden-haired serving women who carried trays of food or steaming towels.

 

 

[SheepAreFluffy]

16 hours ago, Treamayne said:

Yes, they were specifically called Iriali on Lumar:

  Reveal hidden contents

Tress Ch 2:

 

 

I don't think we can read too much into that. Brandon has spoken of how his works can be effectively be thought of as "in translation", and Tress especially is presented as Hoid narating it for a specific audience. Even if the word that Charlie originally spoke was something different, after it's been interpreted by Hoid and then by Brandon then it might easily end up being rendered as Iriali by the time we see it. Which isn't to say that I think this is necessearily the case, more that I think it should be viewed as inconclusive.

[..... he/him]

3 hours ago, Treamayne said:

Inconclusive. Here's the section (Prelude to the Stormlight Archive - WoK):

  Hide contents

Kalak turned and walked to the side, where a low ridge overlooked part of the battlefield.

There were so many corpses, and among them walked the living. Men in primitive wraps, carrying spears topped by bronze heads. Juxtaposed between them were others in gleaming plate armor. One group walked past, four men in their ragged tanned skins or shoddy leather joining a powerful figure in beautiful silver plate, amazingly intricate. Such a contrast.

Jezrien stepped up beside him.

No mention of hair color or other nationality markers. The only references to Iriali in WoK that I can find are in Axies the Collector's Interlude, the Stablemaster in the Saddle investigation (WoK Ch 18), and Kaladin riding the Storm (Ch 46):

  Reveal hidden contents

Ch 18:

Ch 46:

 

 

Oh sorry never mind then l thought l remembered him mentioning bIond peopIe.

[Treamayne]

8 hours ago, SheepAreFluffy said:

I don't think we can read too much into that. Brandon has spoken of how his works can be effectively be thought of as "in translation", and Tress especially is presented as Hoid narating it for a specific audience. Even if the word that Charlie originally spoke was something different, after it's been interpreted by Hoid and then by Brandon then it might easily end up being rendered as Iriali by the time we see it. Which isn't to say that I think this is necessearily the case, more that I think it should be viewed as inconclusive.

I feel like you are stretching the boundries of Confirmation Bias (interpreting data only in ways that support your theory). Brandon has confirmed that Tress mentions Iriali. He has confirmed he used their name on purpose and that the timing with Xisis is also purposeful.

Can you elaborate on your point, please?

Are you trying to "prove" they were not on Lumar? The Timing? The "translation" aspect has never applied to proper nouns (that I know of) - it's there as a feature to help spot worldhoppers when they use terms and phrases that do not match the setting (Galladon-Friend / Zahel-Colors / Hoid-Bunnies (and so so so many others)).

WoBs:

Spoiler

Quote

SapphireBombay

The cups that Charlie sends to Tress. Should we be reading into the descriptions of those cups and thinking about where they may have come from? Is it safe to assume they have come from elsewhere in the cosmere?

Brandon Sanderson

It is safe to assume they have come from the planet. And though there are things to read in about them, they are related only to this book, the only one that has real cosmereological significance is the Iriali cup. So, don't be trying too hard on these to be like, "This means this!" They are for this book's narrative.

Secret Project #1 Reveal and Livestream (March 8, 2022)

Quote

Escovar

The Iriali left at least three hundred years prior to Tress's story. Xisis was said to have been on Lumar for at least three hundred years, by Crow's book. Is the arrival of Xisis and departure of the Iriali significantly related?

Brandon Sanderson

I did that intentionally, yes.

Tress Spoiler Stream (March 31, 2023)