Why haven’t we seen Invention’s inventions yet?

[Velsii]

. All cosmere spoilers.

I was going to make a post asking what society is the most technologically advanced, with Scadrial on top and Threnody or Lumar on the bottom. But then I realized- where has inventions people?

The simplest answer is- they don’t exist yet. Brandon hasn’t written the book yet. (though some theories think Sunlit man is set on one of invention’s experiments). But what’s going to be the explanation?

We see that Scadrians poke their noses in everywhere in the space stage. We see Elantrians in Tress. We also see a Rosharan interfering in SOTD 2. So all of these societies are out there in the space stage. But where are the inventors?
So i’d like to hear your theories about what’s keeping them from the space stage
Some of my theories: Invention doesn't rule over humans, Invention made too many awakened machines, Invention did an Ashyn, Invention is building something bigger than the death star, etc.

[alder24]

1 hour ago, Velsii said:

I was going to make a post asking what society is the most technologically advanced, with Scadrial on top and Threnody or Lumar on the bottom. But then I realized- where has inventions people?

It's neither Scadrial, nor Roshar - it's Taldain, Autonomy's planet. The Man of Gold and Red looked quite advanced in my opinion, TLM ch 60:

Quote

Thousands of inhuman soldiers with golden skin and glowing red eyes. Living statues. They carried rifles of an advanced design, and their stares seemed to bore holes in her mind. The men of gold and red had arrived.

 

Spoiler

yafeshan

I am space nerd with a love of fantasy, so; Why is Scadrial prime example planet to invent space travel. Is its allomancy/ferruchemy/hemalurgy combination more suitable for that kind of technology or do they have other incentives to invent space travel other than regular technology development? Is it related to the intervention of unknown metal/shard/beings we saw?

Brandon Sanderson

There are a bunch of reasons.

The most technologically advanced of the planets (Taldain) is extremely isolationist because of its Shard, while Harmony is very interested in the progress of his people.

Scadrial has an advanced understanding of metallurgy, and for many years was quietly open to visitors from across the cosmere. In the modern era, that has enhanced. It's a much safer place to visit than, say, Sel, Threnody, or First of the Sun.

There are other reasons, too, which we'll get into as the world progresses. Having some prominent cosmere-aware people pulling strings behind the scenes is a big help. If you know other worlds are out there, and are populated, then you're more likely to push toward space travel.

Stormlight Three Update #6 (Feb. 8, 2017)

 

1 hour ago, Velsii said:

Sunlit Man spoilers:

Spoiler

(though some theories think Sunlit man is set on one of invention’s experiments)

Spoilers from both Yumi and Sunlit books are not allowed here. Please edit your post and hide this in a spoiler box or delete it.

1 hour ago, Velsii said:

We see that Scadrians poke their noses in everywhere in the space stage. We see Elantrians in Tress. We also see a Rosharan interfering in SOTD 2. So all of these societies are out there in the space stage. But where are the inventors?
So i’d like to hear your theories about what’s keeping them from the space stage
Some of my theories: Invention doesn't rule over humans, Invention made too many awakened machines, Invention did an Ashyn, Invention is building something bigger than the death star, etc.

For all we know Invention wasn't on Ashyn, Odium was. I don't thin Invention was on Ashyn.

Shard investing in a planet has a really hard time leaving it to invest in another planet - they have to either take all of that investiture with them, or rip it off themself, both are really painful processes.

Spoiler

Questioner

When one of the shards, like Odium, move from world to world in the cosmere, does their presence, like the metals they leave behind and their magic, leave with them?

Brandon Sanderson

Odium never really settled on a planet.  He is now settled on Roshar and his magic has permeated things.  Leaving would be very difficult for him. It would either involve leaving behind some of his power or ripping that out, which would be a difficult process.  So yes it is very tough to leave.

Phoenix Comicon 2013 (May 24, 2013)

If Invention invested in a world with Sho Del, they might have different priorities than expanding into space, thus they simply aren't there. Or maybe Invention is the Shard that hasn't invested in any world, WoB confirmed there is a Shard like that, and also in his letter in RoW, Harmony said he wasn't able to locate Invention after their initial contact - weird for a Shard inhabiting a world.

Spoiler

Dawnshard (paraphrased)

So I asked Brandon at the LA signing if he could tell us about a shard that we don't know anything about (including the survival shard) and he said that there was a shard that isn't on a planet. Now I think this means that the shard is either on an asteroid, or a star. It could also be floating in space or on a moon and influencing from a distance. I will repeat it is not any shard we already know about.

Words of Radiance Los Angeles signing (March 5, 2014)

Yumi spoilers:

Spoiler

But that might be Virtuosity:

Spoiler

asmodeus

By the time of [Yumi and the Nightmare Painter], it has been more than 10,000 years since the Shattering. In this story, there is an implication that Virtuosity Splintered herself 1700 years ago. Can you tell us something about what she was doing in between?

Brandon Sanderson

In between?

Adam Horne

The 10,000 years since the Shattering and her...

Brandon Sanderson

Until then? Virtuosity was exploring the artistic expressions of the cosmere. And choosing not to settle in one location--something that Virtuosity was not keen on doing. Not for too long at least.

Secret Project #3 Reveal and Livestream (March 22, 2022)

 

Or maybe the name Invention is misleading. After all, Autonomy despite her intent, shares technology with their people to advance them more, and on top of that they are an extreme control freak - Invention might be simply the opposite, they just wait patiently and observe with no interference, no knowledge sharing, without pushing them forward, waiting for them to develop on their own. Just because the Shard is named Invention doesn't mean they have the most technologically advanced planet, or they're pushing people to invent. 

[bmcclure7]

3 hours ago, Velsii said:

. All cosmere spoilers.

I was going to make a post asking what society is the most technologically advanced, with Scadrial on top and Threnody or Lumar on the bottom. But then I realized- where has inventions people?

The simplest answer is- they don’t exist yet. Brandon hasn’t written the book yet. (though some theories think Sunlit man is set on one of invention’s experiments). But what’s going to be the explanation?

We see that Scadrians poke their noses in everywhere in the space stage. We see Elantrians in Tress. We also see a Rosharan interfering in SOTD 2. So all of these societies are out there in the space stage. But where are the inventors?
So i’d like to hear your theories about what’s keeping them from the space stage
Some of my theories: Invention doesn't rule over humans, Invention made too many awakened machines, Invention did an Ashyn, Invention is building something bigger than the death star, etc.

The people of scadrel aren't particularly more conservative or violent than any other presidential. The people  of Taldan aren't particularly rebellious.  Endowments people aren't particularly generous so why would inventions people be particularly advanced? 

And he may not have people.  

Edited October 18, 2023 by bmcclure7

[Sir Squeekins he/him]

13 hours ago, bmcclure7 said:

And he may not have people.

True. But to be fair, if another Shard were to create a race the same way Preservation did, Invention seems like the obvious one. I mean, it's in the name.

[trav]

Inventions do not necessarily lead to space faring.

I would say the best inventions make life easier while not having a negative effect on the planet. Anything industrial would not fit this bill in my opinion.

[Frustration]

4 hours ago, trav said:

Inventions do not necessarily lead to space faring.

I would say the best inventions make life easier while not having a negative effect on the planet. Anything industrial would not fit this bill in my opinion.

Here's the thing: If your invention caused a problem, you can just invent something else to fix it.

[bmcclure7]

14 hours ago, Sir Squeekins said:

True. But to be fair, if another Shard were to create a race the same way Preservation did, Invention seems like the obvious one. I mean, it's in the name.

True it dose sound like the intent that would compel someone to create but the same could have been said for virtuosity. 

[bmcclure7]

13 hours ago, trav said:

Inventions do not necessarily lead to space faring.

I would say the best inventions make life easier while not having a negative effect on the planet. Anything industrial would not fit this bill in my opinion.

"while not having a negative effect on the planet." 

Why would invention have such a limitation and even if he did why would his people?

[trav]

10 hours ago, bmcclure7 said:

"while not having a negative effect on the planet." 

Why would invention have such a limitation and even if he did why would his people?

I am not saying that it has. I say that you have a very narrow frame of mind if you think that Inventions intent must lead to space faring civilizations just because ours and others in the Cosmere did.

[bmcclure7]

1 minute ago, trav said:

I am not saying that it has. I say that you have a very narrow frame of mind if you think that Inventions intent must lead to space faring civilizations just because ours and others in the Cosmere did.

I agree just after all the people of scadrel aren't particularly conservative or violent no reason to believe that the invention people would have space travel. 

[Duxredux he/him]

Most of the answers that I was coming up with probably should end up in the conspiracy thread. In fact a lot of them had a lot in common with hypothetical explanations for Fermi's Paradox. Fermi's paradox is basically the question for why we haven't run into other intelligent life assuming that it exists. Are they hiding from us, is the way that they perceive the world so alien to us that what we would consider typical would be nonsensical to them? Have they developed technology to hide from us and we were the ones that missed the equivalent of the wheel?

I think Oltux72 asked why so many Cosmere worlds have near mass-extinction events in their history, and maybe Invention's planet with a bunch of mad scientists blew themselves up. Maybe they've way ahead of the curve and have invented cloaking tech and are fascinated at observing all of the other Cosmere life and aren't fussed with colonialism. Because we assume they are not currently detectable, everything I put out just reads like a conspiracy theory to me.

Another option is that Invention never settled on a planet so we haven't seen what they've been up to because there isn't a people associated with Invention's power. I don't think we've run into a Shard that fits this description yet, have we?

Spoiler

Dawnshard (paraphrased)

So I asked Brandon at the LA signing if he could tell us about a shard that we don't know anything about (including the survival shard) and he said that there was a shard that isn't on a planet. Now I think this means that the shard is either on an asteroid, or a star. It could also be floating in space or on a moon and influencing from a distance. I will repeat it is not any shard we already know about.

Words of Radiance Los Angeles signing (March 5, 2014)

 

[bmcclure7]

10 hours ago, Duxredux said:

Most of the answers that I was coming up with probably should end up in the conspiracy thread. In fact a lot of them had a lot in common with hypothetical explanations for Fermi's Paradox. Fermi's paradox is basically the question for why we haven't run into other intelligent life assuming that it exists. Are they hiding from us, is the way that they perceive the world so alien to us that what we would consider typical would be nonsensical to them? Have they developed technology to hide from us and we were the ones that missed the equivalent of the wheel?

I think Oltux72 asked why so many Cosmere worlds have near mass-extinction events in their history, and maybe Invention's planet with a bunch of mad scientists blew themselves up. Maybe they've way ahead of the curve and have invented cloaking tech and are fascinated at observing all of the other Cosmere life and aren't fussed with colonialism. Because we assume they are not currently detectable, everything I put out just reads like a conspiracy theory to me.

Another option is that Invention never settled on a planet so we haven't seen what they've been up to because there isn't a people associated with Invention's power. I don't think we've run into a Shard that fits this description yet, have we?

  Reveal hidden contents

Dawnshard (paraphrased)

So I asked Brandon at the LA signing if he could tell us about a shard that we don't know anything about (including the survival shard) and he said that there was a shard that isn't on a planet. Now I think this means that the shard is either on an asteroid, or a star. It could also be floating in space or on a moon and influencing from a distance. I will repeat it is not any shard we already know about.

Words of Radiance Los Angeles signing (March 5, 2014)

 

If you want to take it it in the direction of the Fermi's paradox you can get pretty dark, have your read skyward? ever heard of dark forest theory, also know as the prisoners delma  or the chain of suspicion?