A listener taking up Honor

[The Sibling she/her]

I think that it would be really cool if a listener were to take up Honor. When Kaladin was fighting them on the shattered plains, he found that they fought with honour. The fused also fight with honour (at least Leshwi and her crew), but I think it would be better for a listener rather than a singer/fused to pick up the shard. The three shards that have been influencing Roshar are/were held by two humans and a dragon. I think that the singer species should be represented in the shards. Another reason that I think this is that it might be an interesting balance that could be struck on Roshar, with a listener holding Honor, a human holding Odium, and a dragon holding Cultivation.

Just to clarify, I don't think Venli should pick up the shard. Nope, no thanks. She's doing a great job with her redemption arc but she's still fairly selfish and I worry about her holding Honor. Although, maybe the shards intent would change Venli for the better? I don't know. I just don't see that ending well.

One thing that sort of makes this less likely is the fact that it really isn't been foreshadowed all that much. Yes, it has been made very clear that the listeners are honourable. But no individual listeners other than Venli have really been explored enough to make this a satisfying conclusion. Maybe in the back half? What do you think? Which listener (or singer if you want) would make a good Vessel?

[alder24]

19 minutes ago, The Sibling said:

I think that it would be really cool if a listener were to take up Honor. When Kaladin was fighting them on the shattered plains, he found that they fought with honour. The fused also fight with honour (at least Leshwi and her crew), but I think it would be better for a listener rather than a singer/fused to pick up the shard. The three shards that have been influencing Roshar are/were held by two humans and a dragon. I think that the singer species should be represented in the shards. Another reason that I think this is that it might be an interesting balance that could be struck on Roshar, with a listener holding Honor, a human holding Odium, and a dragon holding Cultivation.

Just to clarify, I don't think Venli should pick up the shard. Nope, no thanks. She's doing a great job with her redemption arc but she's still fairly selfish and I worry about her holding Honor. Although, maybe the shards intent would change Venli for the better? I don't know. I just don't see that ending well.

One thing that sort of makes this less likely is the fact that it really isn't been foreshadowed all that much. Yes, it has been made very clear that the listeners are honourable. But no individual listeners other than Venli have really been explored enough to make this a satisfying conclusion. Maybe in the back half? What do you think? Which listener (or singer if you want) would make a good Vessel?

Well, it's certainly possible, they have a connection and Honor used to be their god, but personally I don't really see any of them getting Honor. They are closer to Cultivation than Honor in my opinion. Without any foreshadowing it's really hard to say who could Ascend among them - we know like 4 of them by the name and only 2 of them were given enough depth and character. I hope we will get more of Listeners in KoWT.

[The Sibling she/her]

On 2023-10-11 at 9:27 AM, alder24 said:

Well, it's certainly possible, they have a connection and Honor used to be their god, but personally I don't really see any of them getting Honor. They are closer to Cultivation than Honor in my opinion. Without any foreshadowing it's really hard to say who could Ascend among them - we know like 4 of them by the name and only 2 of them were given enough depth and character. I hope we will get more of Listeners in KoWT.

Right. I just think that having a planet with three shard, a listener, a human, and a dragon would be awesome. But now that I actually consider it, maybe that doesn't make sense. If Odium ever is defeated in the future, then there won't be a shard with a human vessel. And even though I loved the idea that the human shard would be the super evil conquest one, if a human took up Honor and a listener took up Cultivation and Odium stormed off, maybe Roshar would be okay? I don't see this happening in KoWT though, just because  that's a lot of stuff to happen in one already crazy book.

the foreshadowing thing is my biggest problem with this idea. We know Venli pretty well, but I don't think that she properly embodies Honor all that much. Maybe Cultivation, because she likes change and progress, but Venli as Cultivation seems to me like a danger to the safety of Roshar. Other named listeners haven't been set up very well for this (Eshonai, why'd you have to die?) but maybe in the back half they could be? If the back half is more herald focused, we could meet a Fused through flashbacks and then have them Ascend. Maybe Leshwi? (Raboniel why'd you have to die?)

More listeners in KoWT would be pretty cool. I really want to learn more about their history and how they turned away from Odium. 

[Treamayne]

On 10/11/2023 at 9:01 AM, The Sibling said:

Which listener (or singer if you want) would make a good Vessel?

Rlain

[The Sibling she/her]

10 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

Rlain

Do you think Rlain would be better for Honor or Cultivation?

[Treamayne]

8 minutes ago, The Sibling said:

Do you think Rlain would be better for Honor or Cultivation?

Well, he sacrificed his mind for the sake of his duty to his people, voluntarily taking dullform to become a spy - which landed him in the Bridge Crews. He could have given away a ton of intel to get out of carrying bridges, and did not. He stayed true to Kaladin and Bridge 4, even when they were forced to break his cultural taboos about the dead in order to save lives and for kaladin to keep his word. He kept faith with them after departing to return to Narak - then returned to them with news and warnings about Stormform. 

Not sure, what do you think?

[The Sibling she/her]

56 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

Well, he sacrificed his mind for the sake of his duty to his people, voluntarily taking dullform to become a spy - which landed him in the Bridge Crews. He could have given away a ton of intel to get out of carrying bridges, and did not. He stayed true to Kaladin and Bridge 4, even when they were forced to break his cultural taboos about the dead in order to save lives and for kaladin to keep his word. He kept faith with them after departing to return to Narak - then returned to them with news and warnings about Stormform. 

Not sure, what do you think?

I guess Honor makes sense. The reason that I thought maybe Cultivation was because of how he helped with the farming at Urithiru, but really he did that because he knew how, not because he likes change or growth.

okay, what if Rlain had Honor and Renarin had Cultivation guys I actually would love this please and thank you Brandon.

[Forts Board]

I think so far in the Stormlight Archive Brandon has shown the listeners to be (on average) much more honorable than the Humans. He might be moving towards this...

[Letryx13]

I've had this idea too.  I'd love for a listener, or any singer really, to be the one to take up the shard of honor.  The only problem is that the only singers who have played large enough roles in the story so far, and are still alive, are Venli and Rlain.  Both of them have undergone pretty impressive character growth already, having become radiants.  So I'm not sure it quite fits for either or them to take up honor's shard.  Of the two, I could see it being Rlain much more easily that Venli, since he seemed to resolve himself to keeping an eye on humans, but that also fits with his being a TruthWatcher.

On 10/21/2023 at 10:18 PM, Forts Board said:

I think so far in the Stormlight Archive Brandon has shown the listeners to be (on average) much more honorable than the Humans. He might be moving towards this...

Not sure if I completely agree with that.  Kaladin was mostly comparing the listeners to the soldiers in Sadeas' army.  

On 10/17/2023 at 2:48 PM, The Sibling said:

I guess Honor makes sense. The reason that I thought maybe Cultivation was because of how he helped with the farming at Urithiru, but really he did that because he knew how, not because he likes change or growth.

okay, what if Rlain had Honor and Renarin had Cultivation guys I actually would love this please and thank you Brandon.

Probably wouldn't happen.  At the very least, Lyft is likely next in line to be Cultivation. Or at least Sanderson wants us to think that.

On 10/17/2023 at 9:39 AM, The Sibling said:

Right. I just think that having a planet with three shard, a listener, a human, and a dragon would be awesome. But now that I actually consider it, maybe that doesn't make sense. If Odium ever is defeated in the future, then there won't be a shard with a human vessel. And even though I loved the idea that the human shard would be the super evil conquest one, if a human took up Honor and a listener took up Cultivation and Odium stormed off, maybe Roshar would be okay? I don't see this happening in KoWT though, just because  that's a lot of stuff to happen in one already crazy book.

I think Odium will end up either being bound or in some other way restrained or altered after KoWT, so he likely won't play a big role after that. But I do agree that it would be interesting to have more Shards that weren't originally human.

On 10/17/2023 at 9:39 AM, The Sibling said:

the foreshadowing thing is my biggest problem with this idea. We know Venli pretty well, but I don't think that she properly embodies Honor all that much. Maybe Cultivation, because she likes change and progress, but Venli as Cultivation seems to me like a danger to the safety of Roshar. Other named listeners haven't been set up very well for this (Eshonai, why'd you have to die?) but maybe in the back half they could be? If the back half is more herald focused, we could meet a Fused through flashbacks and then have them Ascend. Maybe Leshwi? (Raboniel why'd you have to die?)

I doubt Leshwi, or any of the fused, would be capable of taking up the Shard.  They're probably too aligned with Odium's power to do it, no matter how honorable they might be.  It feels similar to Mistborn with someone aligned with Ruin being unable to take up the power at the well of ascension, which was the power of Preservation.  Honor and Odium may not be opposites, but the person taking up the power would likely still need to be compatible with Honor's shard.  And I wouldn't exactly call Raboniel honorable. Not after she threatened to traumatize a child in order to keep Kaladin from attacking her.

On 10/17/2023 at 9:39 AM, The Sibling said:

More listeners in KoWT would be pretty cool. I really want to learn more about their history and how they turned away from Odium. 

Totally agree.  We really need to see more of the Listeners, they're culture and their history, especially now that they are the future of the order of Will Shapers.