DOR and Ferruchemy

[Alumínio]

using a vial of purified DOR could a ferruchemist for example fill their minds with metal?

If so, what is the implication of this since there are unsealed metal minds?

Imagine if you could do this with god's metals

 

 

[The Bookwyrm]

33 minutes ago, Alumínio said:

using a vial of purified DOR could a ferruchemist for example fill their minds with metal?

If so, what is the implication of this since there are unsealed metal minds?

Imagine if you could do this with god's metals

The problem with most Feruchemy is that you aren't storing direct investiture; you're sort of...translating?...another attribute into a keyed investiture for later usage.

I think.

Don't quote me on that.

So I don't think you'd be able to absorb some Dor and utilize that for normal Feruchemy.

Of course, there's also Nicrosil Feruchemy, which is the storage of Investiture. It might work in that case. Then again, Nicrosil Feruchemy is weird and I don't understand it, so it's possible that it's more complicated than that.

There are other people here that understand all these things far more than I do, so they may be able to provide a better overall answer.

[Frustration]

You could totally do this, just like with compounding, only far more powerful.

Now it might require jumping through some more hoops than using it to fuel allomancy would, but it would work.

Edited October 10, 2023 by Frustration

[.....]

10 minutes ago, Frustration said:

You could totally do this, just like with compounding, only far more powerful.

Now it might require jumping through some more hoops than using it to fuel allomancy would, but it would work.

thanks that answers a question Ive been wondering do you have a wob?

[Ravenclawjedi42]

1 hour ago, Alumínio said:

using a vial of purified DOR could a ferruchemist for example fill their minds with metal?

If so, what is the implication of this since there are unsealed metal minds?

Imagine if you could do this with god's metals

 

 

I think part of the problem is getting the Dor into the metalminds, I can’t imagine how you’d do that.

[.....]

I think you maybe use it as the metal mind

[Frustration]

7 minutes ago, ..... said:

thanks that answers a question Ive been wondering do you have a wob?

It's the same thing as compounding: Using an outside source of power to fuel feruchemy.

Spoiler

djscrub

Since burning Feruchemically charged metal seems to require a choice between getting the Allomantic or Feruchemical property (e.g., Miles only sees gold ghosts when he wants to, not as a side effect of compounded healing), is there any special advantage to compounding pewter and tin, where the Allomantic and Feruchemical use is the same? Is their compounding even stronger than normal compounding because you can tap both power sources simultaneously, or maybe because Preservation is particularly attuned to providing those powers through those metals?

Brandon Sanderson

Remember that compounding is a "hack" of the magic. You're looking to fool the magics, and use one to power the other. The value in it is that you can use Allomantic power to fuel Feruchemy. It's like hooking a power cord up to a device that, up to that point, you'd powered by using a hand crank.

Worldbuilders AMA (Dec. 3, 2015)

5 minutes ago, Ravenclawjedi42 said:

I think part of the problem is getting the Dor into the metalminds, I can’t imagine how you’d do that.

Same way you get it inside the person using allomancy.

1 minute ago, ..... said:

I think you maybe use it as the metal mind

No, you would definitely put the dor inside the metalmind. 

[alder24]

14 hours ago, Alumínio said:

using a vial of purified DOR could a ferruchemist for example fill their minds with metal?

If so, what is the implication of this since there are unsealed metal minds?

You can do that:

Spoiler

Questioner

As far as the Lord Ruler goes, how did he use the Twinborn thing? Feruchemy and Allomancy?

Brandon Sanderson

What he had to figure out how to do is: Allomancy is powered by Spiritual power directly from the Shard of Adonalsium. Whereas Feruchemy is powered by your own Investiture and effort being transferred into the thing. What he needed to do was figure out a way to power Feruchemy with Allomantic power, right? You could have done the same thing by fueling it with the Dor, or with Stormlight, or another external. But he only had access to three magics. So what he had to do was figure out that.

So what he's doing is, he's basically taking metals, (since he's a Feruchemist and an allomancers), and he is burning metals that he has Invested himself, but then using... basically, switching it so he gets a burst of Allomantic power that is charged with a Feruchemical attribute. So it's powering Feruchemy with Allomancy by burning the metal that he himself has Invested.

Questioner

So he was essentially putting stuff into the metal?

Brandon Sanderson

Basically, priming the pump. He puts it in with Feruchemy. Then he burns it with Allomancy. But that fuels Feruchemy with Allomancy, which allows him to draw on the powers of the Shards, rather than himself. So it's not really a perpetual motion machine, because he's drawing the power from someone else. But it's external, which allows him to break the rules of Feruchemy.

The big question I have is: that works in the book, because you can dig into the technicalities of the book. But that's not gonna work in the movie, right? That explanation right there, that's so many levels over the heads of the audience. So I have to figure out a way to not break the cosmere magic, but make it simpler to understand in the movie. Which is the big headache in writing the screenplay. That's probably the biggest challenge in the screenplay is to figure out how to make that all work.

LTUE 2020 (Feb. 15, 2020)

That would give you much more attribute than what compounding gives you, because the Dor used as a fuel for Allomancy makes it stronger than normal.

 

14 hours ago, Alumínio said:

Imagine if you could do this with god's metals

Likely only in Feruchemy can Dor be used as a fuel for god metals. In Allomancy a god metal is the fuel and that's what gives you this power - you can't replace this with something else.

Spoiler

Brandon Sanderson

Atium's Mechanism

Atium is, indeed, different from the other metals. When you burn most Allomantic metals, it opens a conduit through which you can draw upon Preservation's power and use it in very specific ways.

Atium doesn't do that. Atium is, itself, a fuel. When you burn it, the metal itself provides the power. A subtle distinction, I know, but it has to do with where the power is coming from. Most Allomancy is fueled by Preservation, but atium and malatium are fueled by Ruin.

This metal doesn't quite belong on the table where it has been placed.

The Hero of Ages Annotations (April 1, 2010)

 

[Newly Awakened]

If the Dor can be used to fuel Feruchemy then could Surgebinding do it too?(inhaling Stormlight and filling the metalminds with it?) or is it only Allomancy and unkeyed investiture? If so could unkeyed Stormlight work just as well as Dor?

[alder24]

2 hours ago, Newly Awakened said:

If the Dor can be used to fuel Feruchemy then could Surgebinding do it too?(inhaling Stormlight and filling the metalminds with it?) or is it only Allomancy and unkeyed investiture? If so could unkeyed Stormlight work just as well as Dor?

Yes, but it probably has to be unkeyed (or you need to be both a Feruchemist and a Surgebinder).

[Shadeshadow227]

On 10/10/2023 at 4:04 PM, Alumínio said:

using a vial of purified DOR could a ferruchemist for example fill their minds with metal?

If so, what is the implication of this since there are unsealed metal minds?

Imagine if you could do this with god's metals

 

 

Judging by how feruchemy works, I don't think a ferring or full feruchemist could do something like this. Feruchemy works by taking traits from the user, converting that to investiture, and storing that converted investiture in a metalmind keyed to that trait. There's no conversion going on when you use the Dor, and nothing really stores raw investiture (Nicrosil seems to store the ability to use Investiture, judging by how it's been described, which would also explain how the medallions work to an extent, but that's not the same as storing a quantity of the Dor. A decent comparison would probably be putting a circuit board into a drawer, as opposed to physically putting the electricity a computer uses into the aforementioned drawer.).

However, I do think that a Compounder could potentially use the Dor to effectively increase the flow of investiture through metalminds charged with an attribute. We know the Dor can fuel allomancy, after all, and what compounding does is use allomancy to filter investiture through a metalmind to turn it into the trait stored within, the Dor might just add more power to the flow of investiture.

[alder24]

13 minutes ago, Shadeshadow227 said:

Judging by how feruchemy works, I don't think a ferring or full feruchemist could do something like this.

You can:

Spoiler

Kaimipono

Allomancy is fueled by Preservation's body? How exactly does that work? And how does that interact with Atium—it's fueled by both gods' bodies?

Brandon Sanderson

The powers of Ruin and Preservation are Shards of Adonalsium, pieces of the power of creation itself. Allomancy, Hemalurgy, Feruchemy are manifestations of this power in mortal form, the ability to touch the powers of creation and use them. These metallic powers are how people's physical forms interpret the use of the Shard, though it's not the only possible way they could be interpreted or used. It's what the genetics and Realmatic interactions of Scadrial allow for, and has to do with the Spiritual, the Cognitive, and the Physical Realms.

Condensed 'essence' of these godly powers can act as super-fuel for Allomancy, Feruchemy, or really any of the powers. The form of that super fuel is important. In liquid form it's most potent, in gas form it's able to fuel Allomancy as if working as a metal. In physical form it is rigid and does one specific thing. In the case of atium, it allows sight into the future. In the case of concentrated Preservation, it gives one a permanent connection to the mists and the powers of creation. (I.e., it makes them an Allomancer.)

So when a person is burning metals, they aren't using Preservation's body as a fuel so to speak—though they are tapping into the powers of creation just slightly. When Vin burns the mists, however, she'd doing just that—using the essence of Preservation, the Shard of Adonalsium itself—to fuel Allomancy. Doing this, however, rips 'troughs' through her body. It's like forcing far too much pressure through a very small, fragile hose. That much power eventually vaporizes the corporeal host, which is acting as the block and forcing the power into a single type of conduit (Allomancy) and frees it to be more expansive.

Hero of Ages Q&A - Time Waster's Guide (Oct. 15, 2008)

 

Spoiler

Questioner

As far as the Lord Ruler goes, how did he use the Twinborn thing? Feruchemy and Allomancy?

Brandon Sanderson

What he had to figure out how to do is: Allomancy is powered by Spiritual power directly from the Shard of Adonalsium. Whereas Feruchemy is powered by your own Investiture and effort being transferred into the thing. What he needed to do was figure out a way to power Feruchemy with Allomantic power, right? You could have done the same thing by fueling it with the Dor, or with Stormlight, or another external. But he only had access to three magics. So what he had to do was figure out that.

So what he's doing is, he's basically taking metals, (since he's a Feruchemist and an allomancers), and he is burning metals that he has Invested himself, but then using... basically, switching it so he gets a burst of Allomantic power that is charged with a Feruchemical attribute. So it's powering Feruchemy with Allomancy by burning the metal that he himself has Invested.

Questioner

So he was essentially putting stuff into the metal?

Brandon Sanderson

Basically, priming the pump. He puts it in with Feruchemy. Then he burns it with Allomancy. But that fuels Feruchemy with Allomancy, which allows him to draw on the powers of the Shards, rather than himself. So it's not really a perpetual motion machine, because he's drawing the power from someone else. But it's external, which allows him to break the rules of Feruchemy.

The big question I have is: that works in the book, because you can dig into the technicalities of the book. But that's not gonna work in the movie, right? That explanation right there, that's so many levels over the heads of the audience. So I have to figure out a way to not break the cosmere magic, but make it simpler to understand in the movie. Which is the big headache in writing the screenplay. That's probably the biggest challenge in the screenplay is to figure out how to make that all work.

LTUE 2020 (Feb. 15, 2020)

But you would possibly need some type of conversion, to key the Dor to the specific attribute, just like in compounding the power of Preservation is keyed to attribute via burning a metalmind.

But on the other hand you can just use Dor to fuel whatever Allomancy you want, without any need for keying or burning metal. The intent alone shapes the raw power into the specific Allomantic effect so likely the same can happen with Feruchemy - but rather than filling a metalmind, your body would be a metalmind, the Dor would be in your body and you would "tap" the attribute from your body, without any need for a metalmind.