Hemalurgic Combat Combos

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

21 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

Yup, sorry, but I felt that made for a more unique chance to combine specific powers to get an interesting end result. With that in mind, what are the three powers you'd choose for building a Hemalurgic warrior?

This very well could be the case. We just don't know for sure yet.

It's also possible that the strength stored from A-pewter in a Pewtermind or speed from A-pewter would act slightly different from the attributes stored normally, such as strength tapped from A-pewter would be a magical boost to strength rather than a muscular one, or the extra tapped pewter speed being extra Kinetic energy more than temporal speed. That method actually makes the most sense to me at the moment, as storing the power shouldn't change what it actually does.

Spoiler for the quote's size inconvenience:

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YouTube Spoiler Stream 2 - Arcanum (coppermind.net)

Vodid

If you have caffeine, can you store that as wakefulness in a bronzemind?

Brandon Sanderson

I think that you can, but I think when you tap it out, you will have kind of the same effects, right. Like, you will feel like you are not quite as awake. Like that feeling you get, I think you guys know what I'm talking about. I think that you can, I think that you can hack the system with some things like that. That's my guess... That's my answer right now, but that's one pretty mutable, as we go forward.

Adam Horne

I'd be curious to see what you could do with that in Era 3, because pharmaceuticals will exist.

Brandon Sanderson

Yes well, you're already getting into the fact that you could replicate a lot of things, with... once they figure how to change types of Investiture and whatnot, then suddenly you've got some wacky things going on. Which is why a Mistborn cyberpunk would be so much fun, because metallurgic wetware would be fun. But no promises on that—I already have too many things to write. It's just that if I do write it, and I make it a trilogy, then we have sixteen books in the Mistborn series.

 

I think the real problem storing a bunch of speed isn't compensating for it in your movement but in your mind. Maybe pewter makes up for an increase in speed by allowing your mind to process it all. We know for fact that tapping large amounts of speed actually allows you to perceive the world around you as moving slower.  I would imagine that when storing speed the biggest hurdle you would need to jump through would be that everything around you would appear to be moving far faster than it is.  Pewter could allow you to move faster to compensate but could it allow your perception of things to be compensated to an equal degree.  

Also. What are your thoughts on F-Nicrosil?  Is it storing the ability entirely like a thought?  Is it either all in or all out or could you store an ability for 20 or 30 minutes and then stop storing and be able to draw on that ability for 20 or 30 minutes?  

Something about the bands allowed Wax to push on trace metals and I believe it would allow him to easily push on spikes. 

So perhaps A-steel A-pewter and F-nicrosil?  

If that isn't going to work then I guess I like the idea of cowardly running and duralumin blasting a herd of koloss to fight for me. Maybe A duralumin A zinc and A steel so that I can leap frog my way around my band of 10 foot tall koloss blade weilding warriors while sending in a coin or two as well.  

[Through The Living Grub He/Him]

2 hours ago, alder24 said:

Elend can't push spikes despite being Lerasium Mistborn, more powerful than even what 3 spikes can give you.

Wax could push on the different parts of a bullet. It requires a bit of Intent so maybe Elend didn't know he could push on the spikes or that thought never came to his mind.

For my champion: A-tin, A-pewter and F-steel.

Become a savant with tin like Spook did and the pewter balances it out. They can feel the wind from an attack and can tap steel to get out of the way.

[..... he/him]

32 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

Yup, sorry, but I felt that made for a more unique chance to combine specific powers to get an interesting end result. With that in mind, what are the three powers you'd choose for building a Hemalurgic warrior?

A-cadmium + A-bendalloy + A-steel + savant in the time bubbles both types. stratagy: first make small flared bendalloy bubble next large cadmium bubble next you enter cadmium bubble I start shooting coins in your general direction as fast as I can a wall of coins is heading to ward you you will get hit by at least one 

[Trusk'our he/him]

22 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

I think the real problem storing a bunch of speed isn't compensating for it in your movement but in your mind. Maybe pewter makes up for an increase in speed by allowing your mind to process it all. We know for fact that tapping large amounts of speed actually allows you to perceive the world around you as moving slower.  I would imagine that when storing speed the biggest hurdle you would need to jump through would be that everything around you would appear to be moving far faster than it is.  Pewter could allow you to move faster to compensate but could it allow your perception of things to be compensated to an equal degree.  

That's a good point; A-pewter speed would probably not grant the same level of mental speed. It would probably increase your reflex speed somewhat, but that's not the same thing. I'd say that this would likely be a unique limitation of Reverse Compounding A-pewter speed.

22 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

Also. What are your thoughts on F-Nicrosil?  Is it storing the ability entirely like a thought?  Is it either all in or all out or could you store an ability for 20 or 30 minutes and then stop storing and be able to draw on that ability for 20 or 30 minutes?  

Something about the bands allowed Wax to push on trace metals and I believe it would allow him to easily push on spikes. 

So perhaps A-steel A-pewter and F-nicrosil?  

My current line of thought for F-nicrosil (until proven otherwise) is that you can use it to temporarily augment your other powers with it. As such any Hemalurgist with F-nicrosil could probably use it to strengthen their Allomancy.

So F-nicrosil and A-steel could likely allow for Pushing on other's spikes if tapped enough.

22 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

If that isn't going to work then I guess I like the idea of cowardly running and duralumin blasting a herd of koloss to fight for me. Maybe A duralumin A zinc and A steel so that I can leap frog my way around my band of 10 foot tall koloss blade weilding warriors while sending in a coin or two as well.  

Lol, that would be pretty fun . Powerful too.

20 minutes ago, Xiahida said:

Wax could push on the different parts of a bullet. It requires a bit of Intent so maybe Elend didn't know he could push on the spikes or that thought never came to his mind.

I think that it has more to do with Investiture (and to some extent Identity) interference. I think only raw power could let you override one's natural resistance to your Pushes of metal inside their body.

20 minutes ago, Xiahida said:

For my champion: A-tin, A-pewter and F-steel.

Become a savant with tin like Spook did and the pewter balances it out. They can feel the wind from an attack and can tap steel to get out of the way.

Nice! A-tin Savantism combined with physical augmentation and super speed would be really powerful. Maybe couple it with pewter Savantism and ignore all pain and exhaustion.

Edited October 10, 2023 by Trusk'our

[alder24]

57 minutes ago, Xiahida said:

Wax could push on the different parts of a bullet. It requires a bit of Intent so maybe Elend didn't know he could push on the spikes or that thought never came to his mind.

Intent is one thing, but if he could, he would see blue lines going to spikes. He didn't because he still was too weak to push on spikes. The spikes and a person are still too invested for a Lerasium Mistborn to push on them.

1 hour ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

Also. What are your thoughts on F-Nicrosil?  Is it storing the ability entirely like a thought?  Is it either all in or all out or could you store an ability for 20 or 30 minutes and then stop storing and be able to draw on that ability for 20 or 30 minutes?  

The latter in my opinion.

1 hour ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

Something about the bands allowed Wax to push on trace metals and I believe it would allow him to easily push on spikes. 

He could do this, Marasi did this a moment before, BoM ch 28:

Quote

The Push flung the guards a good fifty feet. That left her facing Suit and Telsin, who regarded her with horrified expressions. They were glowing energy to her, but she recognized them. They had spikes inside of them.
Convenient. Those spikes resisted Pushes, but not enough to bother Marasi now. She lifted a hand and flung both of them away by the very metals they’d used to pierce themselves.

 

[Trusk'our he/him]

2 hours ago, ..... said:

A-cadmium + A-bendalloy + A-steel + savant in the time bubbles both types. stratagy: first make small flared bendalloy bubble next large cadmium bubble next you enter cadmium bubble I start shooting coins in your general direction as fast as I can a wall of coins is heading to ward you you will get hit by at least one 

Like the move Wax and Wayne pulled on Bleeder? That could be a powerful offensive move.

Though, couldn't you just use A-Bendalloy on its own to get the result you want?

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

38 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

Like the move Wax and Wayne pulled on Bleeder? That could be a powerful offensive move.

Though, couldn't you just use A-Bendalloy on its own to get the result you want?

I always pictured the use of time bubbles to be two fold. 

1. The obvious dilation and constriction of time. 

2. The disorientation of stepping through the bubble.  

In the case of someone with both powers I always liked the idea of a battle scene where an oncoming group is charging the metalborn who has 2 bubbles up.  A smaller bendalloy around themselves and then a significantly larger cadmium bubble around the bendalloy bubble.  From the perspective of the outside force they would see the metalborn moving at a totally normal pace.  As they charge into the cadmium bubble 3 big things happen.  

First, the more forward folks would suddenly seam to stop. There would certainly be a collision of the oncoming force and depending on the weapons they are using it could lead to casualties on its own. 

Second, the sudden disorientation. This is something people could push through with the right powers but it would almost certainly end with the oncoming force losing a productive beat. 

Third and most important, while in the outer cadmium bubble the bendalloy user is no longer moving the same speed... in fact they would be an absolute blurr to the people who are disoriented and have just been beat up by their own people.  

With A steel this could be a trick that gets used multiple times in a fight. Fly away and reset the trap. Depending on how uncomfortable it is to run through the time bubbles this could dissuade more than a couple of would be attackers. 

As the time bubbles don't move with the allomancer (at least not at the power levels we have seen though I believe there is a WoB stating its possible for savants) you could have a scenario where a pulser sets up a bubble at the front of her fighting force and drops back inside that bubble maintaining it until the enemy force hits it and has that huge collision only to let it down and replace it a few paces in front of them again. Repeating this slight retreat in between failed charges.  If the enemy is carrying big pointy sticks made of wood or metal even better.  

2 hours ago, alder24 said:

Intent is one thing, but if he could, he would see blue lines going to spikes. He didn't because he still was too weak to push on spikes. The spikes and a person are still too invested for a Lerasium Mistborn to push on them.

The latter in my opinion.

He could do this, Marasi did this a moment before, BoM ch 28:

 

Perhaps F nicrosil A steel / iron could allow someone to gain the power level necessary to rip select spikes from their opponents body.  

[..... he/him]

44 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

I always pictured the use of time bubbles to be two fold. 

1. The obvious dilation and constriction of time. 

2. The disorientation of stepping through the bubble.  

In the case of someone with both powers I always liked the idea of a battle scene where an oncoming group is charging the metalborn who has 2 bubbles up.  A smaller bendalloy around themselves and then a significantly larger cadmium bubble around the bendalloy bubble.  From the perspective of the outside force they would see the metalborn moving at a totally normal pace.  As they charge into the cadmium bubble 3 big things happen.  

First, the more forward folks would suddenly seam to stop. There would certainly be a collision of the oncoming force and depending on the weapons they are using it could lead to casualties on its own. 

Second, the sudden disorientation. This is something people could push through with the right powers but it would almost certainly end with the oncoming force losing a productive beat. 

Third and most important, while in the outer cadmium bubble the bendalloy user is no longer moving the same speed... in fact they would be an absolute blurr to the people who are disoriented and have just been beat up by their own people.  

With A steel this could be a trick that gets used multiple times in a fight. Fly away and reset the trap. Depending on how uncomfortable it is to run through the time bubbles this could dissuade more than a couple of would be attackers. 

As the time bubbles don't move with the allomancer (at least not at the power levels we have seen though I believe there is a WoB stating its possible for savants) you could have a scenario where a pulser sets up a bubble at the front of her fighting force and drops back inside that bubble maintaining it until the enemy force hits it and has that huge collision only to let it down and replace it a few paces in front of them again. Repeating this slight retreat in between failed charges.  If the enemy is carrying big pointy sticks made of wood or metal even better.

you pretty much have the idea except I specified they would be a savant so that they could move around and I would flare bendalloy to get higher time compression so I would go fast to normal people and way faster than the people in my cadmium bubble and I can move my bubble over to you and boom you are frozen with coins getting shot at you

[Alumínio he/him]

A-Brass, A-Duralumin, F-Steel with the explosion of duralumin and brass the enemy would remain catatonic for a long time, and if it only lasts a second (in case he has a metal mind with determination) the F-Steel is used to hit him the second he is incapacitated

[Trusk'our he/him]

2 minutes ago, Alumínio said:

A-Brass, A-Duralumin, F-Steel with the explosion of duralumin and brass the enemy would remain catatonic for a long time, and if it only lasts a second (in case he has a metal mind with determination) the F-Steel is used to hit him the second he is incapacitated

Makes sense to me. Good synergy with that combo. 

[Alumínio he/him]

23 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

Faz sentido para mim. Boa sinergia com esse combo. 

I was reading the topic and realized that anything with duralumin is broken, wouldn't it be better to add some other rules? such as without supporting metals

[..... he/him]

Also how much metal are we assuming they have (in burntime) and what about feruchemy(in hours at a 1:1 ratio)? kinda important just sayin and do we get weapons 

@Trusk'our

Edited October 10, 2023 by .....

[Trusk'our he/him]

2 hours ago, Alumínio said:

I was reading the topic and realized that anything with duralumin is broken, wouldn't it be better to add some other rules? such as without supporting metals

A-duralumin isn't really all that broken in my opinion, since it does open one up to retaliation after they burn through all the metals in their stomach. Plus, duralumin works only in bursts, which further limits its power.

I removed Compounding since it is beyond the scope of standard Hemalurgy as of era 2 and limited the number of spikes to three since that's the maximum that any sane Hemalurgist would willingly take without something like Trellium to offset The Flaw.

2 hours ago, ..... said:

Also how much metal are we assuming they have (in burntime) and what about feruchemy(in hours at a 1:1 ratio)? kinda important just sayin and do we get weapons 

@Trusk'our

It isn't really a vs thread, so I didn't feel the need to add those restrictions in; if you have a clever idea for a powerful build that requires a special piece of equipment that isn't a fourth Hemalurgic spike, a natural Metalborn power, an Unsealed Metalmind, or a Godmetal, it's fine by me.

You want a sack full of pewter beads to go with your A-pewter/F-steel combo? It's allowed, though keeping that much metal on your person without an aluminum vessel could be dangerous in combat with certain Metalborn.

You want to have super full Metalminds ahead of time? Also technically allowed, though I don't know if that would be reasonable if that's your only strategy.

Want to use the Big Gun to go with a F-iron build or dynamite with your F-gold/A-pewter build? I'd say it's also fine, but it should tie into why you're using it with the spike combination since that's the main purpose of this thread.

Edited October 11, 2023 by Trusk'our

[Alumínio he/him]

6 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

  Não é realmente um tópico vs, então não senti necessidade de adicionar essas restrições;

It may not even be a vs topic, but the moment you ask to create a warrior I imagine him exchanging punches with others

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

4 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

A-duralumin isn't really all that broken in my opinion, since it does open one up to retaliation after they burn through all the metals in their stomach. Plus, duralumin works only in bursts, which further limits its power.

I removed Compounding since it is beyond the scope of standard Hemalurgy as of era 2 and limited the number of spikes to three since that's the maximum that any sane Hemalurgist would willingly take without something like Trellium to offset The Flaw.

It isn't really a vs thread, so I didn't feel the need to add those restrictions in; if you have a clever idea for a powerful build that requires a special piece of equipment that isn't a fourth Hemalurgic spike, a natural Metalborn power, an Unsealed Metalmind, or a Godmetal, it's fine by me.

You want a sack full of pewter beads to go with your A-pewter/F-steel combo? It's allowed, though keeping that much metal on your person without an aluminum vessel could be dangerous in combat with certain Metalborn.

You want to have super full Metalminds ahead of time? Also technically allowed, though I don't know if that would be reasonable if that's your only strategy.

Want to use the Big Gun to go with a F-iron build or dynamite with your F-gold/A-pewter build? I'd say it's also fine, but it should tie into why you're using it with the spike combination since that's the main purpose of this thread.

Okay. So hear me out... F steel and F duralumin using your 3rd spike as a weapon instead of in yourself. Be it aluminum or anything else.  I believe it is confirmed that F duralumin could control hemalurgic constructs as well.... duralumin and emotional allomancy would take up too many spikes for this to work. 

Keeping it at 3 spikes only.  Store all connection and blitz your opponent hoping they won't really care nor recognize you. Hit them with your 3rd spike and then tap all of the duralumin you have praying they will become controllable or that Harmony takes care of that for you. 

Or the A duralumin F duralumin A zinc or brass and try to convince them to remove their own spikes through shear manipulation of emotions and connection.  

Kind of messed up ways of fighting but I like to think of combat applications to the emotional connections and such.  

[Alumínio he/him]

3 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

    Formas de luta meio confusas, mas gosto de pensar em aplicações de combate para conexões emocionais e coisas assim.  

I like your way of thinking If I could have just one ferruquemic power I would choose duralumin, instant friendships, networks and thousands of options of places to go and find out things

connection is my favorite cosmere mechanic

[Trusk'our he/him]

18 minutes ago, Alumínio said:

It may not even be a vs topic, but the moment you ask to create a warrior I imagine him exchanging punches with others

Lol, so true 

I just don't want to have the thread devolve into a constant bickering between three or four people for sixteen pages (it happens basically any time there's a vs thread). I'd much rather hear some unique ideas from many different people, and thankfully everyone's been doing just that- I've already seen a whole bunch of ideas that never even crossed my mind and hope to lots more.

Thank you for that guys 

19 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

Okay. So hear me out... F steel and F duralumin using your 3rd spike as a weapon instead of in yourself. Be it aluminum or anything else.  I believe it is confirmed that F duralumin could control hemalurgic constructs as well.... duralumin and emotional allomancy would take up too many spikes for this to work. 

Keeping it at 3 spikes only.  Store all connection and blitz your opponent hoping they won't really care nor recognize you. Hit them with your 3rd spike and then tap all of the duralumin you have praying they will become controllable or that Harmony takes care of that for you. 

Or the A duralumin F duralumin A zinc or brass and try to convince them to remove their own spikes through shear manipulation of emotions and connection.  

Kind of messed up ways of fighting but I like to think of combat applications to the emotional connections and such.  

Interesting. I think you'd need to use more than one spike to control a construct though- this is why Chimera are immune to Harmony's control, for instance.

I'd say you could probably do a three spike build and have some extra spikes to use on others to make them into controllable constructs though, as you're not adding more spikes to your own body (which would leave your own Spiriweb open to direct control- which is the reason I didn't think it should be allowed) and attribute bearing spikes are significantly easier to make than power bearing spikes.

17 minutes ago, Alumínio said:

connection is my favorite cosmere mechanic

Mine too 

Really hoping to find out more about Fortune and Destiny soon though. They sound really intriguing.

[..... he/him]

Spoiler

I thought of another one like someone with aon dor and then spike them with the knowledge and skill to use it but like you did really well instead of just average  I don't know what the aon dor Spike would be made out of but you could do the skills spike and knowledge Spike with copper and then boom instant aon dor Master which can do basically anything according to Brandon so that's really powerful 

new one also elantris spoilers:

Edited October 17, 2023 by .....

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

1 hour ago, Trusk'our said:

Lol, so true 

I just don't want to have the thread devolve into a constant bickering between three or four people for sixteen pages (it happens basically any time there's a vs thread). I'd much rather hear some unique ideas from many different people, and thankfully everyone's been doing just that- I've already seen a whole bunch of ideas that never even crossed my mind and hope to lots more.

Thank you for that guys 

Interesting. I think you'd need to use more than one spike to control a construct though- this is why Chimera are immune to Harmony's control, for instance.

I'd say you could probably do a three spike build and have some extra spikes to use on others to make them into controllable constructs though, as you're not adding more spikes to your own body (which would leave your own Spiriweb open to direct control- which is the reason I didn't think it should be allowed) and attribute bearing spikes are significantly easier to make than power bearing spikes.

Mine too 

Really hoping to find out more about Fortune and Destiny soon though. They sound really intriguing.

Yeah I mostly meant if the battle was between 2 players with 3 spikes each. If I can keep my 3rd spike and then I would probably toss in a emotional allomantic ability. The reason I was going to give it up was so I could use the speed to blitz an opponent who also had 3 spikes and slam them with the 4th one before trying to grab hold.  

That said we know 4 spikes opens a human to shardic control but we don't know if that would translate to 4 spikes allowing some form of emotional breaking through or connection.  

 

I am shocked I don't remember seeing any builds with A-pewter F-zinc and A-electrum yet.  If there already has been one my apologies. Always been a super interesting build idea.  

A-Pewter A-tin and F-Zinc could be a good combo too. Push for tin savantism and combine it with F-zinc for poor man's atium?  

F-tin A-tin A-pewter.  Even without compounding this could be huge.  All of the senses you don't want amplified you could store.  All of the senses you do want amplified you could tap bonus on top of what A-tin is giving you.  There is also the added thought that F-tin can store the bonus proprioception from pewter.  Make a Daredevil character with enhanced physical attributes and sonar sense.  

For a pseudo Spiderman build you could go with A-iron A-Pewter and F-chromium.  I always pictured iron flight looking similar to Spiderman. Pewter is a no brainer for the proprioception as well as the bonus physical enhancements.  Chomium for some spidersense precog goodies.  At least that is how I picture F-chromium (in the MAG it allows you reroll dice which is basically advantage on every roll in D&D but story wise that can be a lot more flexible than simple "luck")  I like to think of it as the "Peter Tingle".   

Lets make a pacifist character who wins by not fighting. At all.  F-Duralumin A-Brass A-Copper.  The master manipulator who can keep their head down in even the most chaotic battlefields.  If emotional allomancy and duralumin allow Marsh to walk around unseen then tossing on a copper cloud with it must be better. Live a peaceful life pulling the strings of unsuspecting puppets everywhere.  (Have I ever mentioned Breeze is my favorite Scadrian this far?  Wayne is close behind but Breeze is so smooth in how he operates I LOVE it!) 

[..... he/him]

new one brains of an AI with copper spike strength of its really strong robot body with iron spike and f-gold

cant find wob for the computer stuff but Ive seen it before 

Edit: found it :

NeedsAdjustment

You've said before that if a sentient computer were developed, it would call a soul into itself. Could it be Hemalurgically spiked?

Brandon Sanderson

Theoretically, yes, but I have no idea yet how the logistics of that would work.

Stormlight Three Update #4 (Oct. 5, 2016)

Edited October 11, 2023 by .....

[Njvodin]

Ooh this one is fun

My first two choices are A-Duralumin and F-Nicrosil. This is, in my opinion, a really easy way to supercharge any of the metals. Allomantic duralumin speaks for itself, so I'll explain F-Nicrosil a bit more. If you store Investiture for whatever 3rd metal you want (allomantic is easiest, so say A-Steel), and then in one burst use all of it, while simultaneously using duralumin, then use A-Steel to do a super-super-Push. If you focus it all on a little coin or something, it could surely go so fast it kills in one shot, but that's kinda boring. 

I'd personally use it to Push the other contestant away. It'd be funny, plus it could seriously damage them.

 

But I also think there's too much protection for physical damage. Why not use A-Zinc or A-Brass to absolutely shatter someone's mind? We know that a duralumin powered Soothe or Riot can make peoples minds go blank for a hot second, but an even more supercharged (twin-charged?) Soothe/Riot would destroy them, knock them unconscious, even. The problem with facing someone like this is that you can't actually protect yourself, unless you're compounding copper, or maybe if you had an aluminium hat, but I'm gonna pretend that the opposition doesn't have one of these.

 

You could do a lot of things, like twin-charge pewter punch someone, and absolutely decimate them, or twin-charge aluminium to REALLY make sure you get rid of all the metal in your body. Or, electrum, and find out what you could be doing instead of wasting time twin-charging a useless ability. 

If you could figure out how to use duralumin on feruchemical powers, then this also opens some possibilities, such as running across to the opponent with F-Steel at like Mach 5, or F-Cadmium, whatever the heck that does for you. Maybe you just start hyperventilating and the opponent freaks out and runs away.

But seriously, it sounds like it could be pretty fun to toy with.

 

[therunner he/him]

18 hours ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

We know for fact that tapping large amounts of speed actually allows you to perceive the world around you as moving slower.

Actually we don't know that.

In Era 1 Sazed must explicitly tap F-Zinc to perceive the world in slow motion, F-Steel just allows him to move at similar speed.

In Era 2, Bleeder does have only F-Steel, but she is also Kandra and can change her physiology.
Marasi when tapping BoM, 'Taps everything', so she plausibly tapped both F-Steel and F-Zinc.

So evidence is more in-line with F-Steel not allowing faster perception to any large degree. It would be odd if F-Steel did like ~80% of what F-Zinc does and granted superhuman speed.
 

Regarding my choice of spikes for champion:

• F-Chromium
  • This should let the champion to just 'happen' to do right decision. Giving them a general slight edge (or large edge if they tapped a lot at once).
• A-Bendalloy
  • Gives champion breathing space in the middle of battle, lets them reposition/dodge or isolate opponents.

For last spike I would go either with

• A-Steel
  • mobility + long range offensive option
• A-Pewter
  • general physical enhancement and increased resiliency
• A-Electrum
  • poor man's atium, nuff said

[alder24]

2 hours ago, therunner said:

Actually we don't know that.

In Era 1 Sazed must explicitly tap F-Zinc to perceive the world in slow motion, F-Steel just allows him to move at similar speed.

In Era 2, Bleeder does have only F-Steel, but she is also Kandra and can change her physiology.
Marasi when tapping BoM, 'Taps everything', so she plausibly tapped both F-Steel and F-Zinc.

So evidence is more in-line with F-Steel not allowing faster perception to any large degree. It would be odd if F-Steel did like ~80% of what F-Zinc does and granted superhuman speed.

Sazed ran to Luthadel in WoA using just his steelminds. WoA ch 16&19:

Quote

Sighing, Sazed returned to the hovel and retrieved his pack. On his way out, he paused, then pulled out one of his steelminds. Steel held one of the very most difficult attributes to store up: physical speed. He had spent months filling this particular steelmind in preparation for the possibility that someday he might need to run somewhere very, very quickly.
He put it on now.

[...]

Sazed unclasped his final steelmind. He held it up, the braceletlike band of metal glistening in the red sunlight. To another man, it might seem valuable. To Sazed, it was now just another empty husk—a simple steel bracelet. He could refill it if he wished, but for the moment he didn't consider the weight worth carrying.
With a sigh, he dropped the bracelet. It fell with a clank, tossing up a puff of ash from the ground. Five months of storing, of spending every fifth day drained of speed, my body moving as if impeded by a thick molasses. And now it's all gone.
The loss had purchased something valuable, however. In just six days of travel, using steelminds on occasion, he had traveled the equivalent of six weeks' worth of walking

While yes - Marasi "tapped everything" - if she tapped zinc along steel, Wax wouldn't have enough mind speed to think about so many possibilities in between two words his uncle was speaking. And Wax said that steelmind was almost empty - zincmind would be empty as well. 

And there is a temporal effect associated with F-steel. So yes, F-steel allows you to move around with your brain being capable of perceiving what's going on around you like you were moving with a normal speed. F-zinc is different, it makes you better at making logical leaps and doing math.

Spoiler

Calderis

I recently got the opportunity to ask you a question about Feruchemical steel and if it was a temporal effect and you told me to define that better. When tapping steel, the mind of the Feruchemist is sped up and physics affects their actions normally. When storing, their mind is not slowed and the effect seems tortuously difficult to amass. Storing generally seems to be the more dangerous/difficult option in Feruchemy, so does [Feruchemical steel] alter a person's personal relationship to the flow of time, with the disconnect between the Physical and Cognitive as a drawback of storing?

Brandon Sanderson

I see what you're asking. The mind-altering effects of [Feruchemical steel] are similar to the slight strength you gain from [Feruchemical iron]--it is your Spiritual nature adapting to the new influx of an attribute that it's not really expecting, and siphoning some of that investiture to make you capable of actually using it. So there is a slight temporal effect here, but nothing as big as I think you're looking for.

Footnote: This question is a follow-up to this question.
Skyward Pre-Release AMA (Oct. 31, 2018)

 

Spoiler

Alteroden

With [Feruchemical] zinc, you get mental speed. How is that any different from [Feruchemical] steel, except without [physical] speed?

Brandon Sanderson

I think of the mental speed actually turning you into... Let's say you sped up your body, and you wanted to figure out some really complex equations.

Alteroden

So it lets you have intuitive leaps.

Brandon Sanderson

Right. It basically turns you into Ken Jennings. That's how I imagine it.

Kurkistan

So it's not like bullet time?

Brandon Sanderson

No... It'll bullet time a little bit, it certainly will, because you're thinking faster than everyone else, but it has applications beyond bullet timing. Bullet time is really--

Kurkistan

That’s steel’s thing?

Brandon Sanderson

That’s kind of steel's thing. They kind of overlap on that one, because the steel thing... But yeah. It's more like "I think fast, but my reaction speed is not sped up".

Shadows of Self Chicago signing (Oct. 12, 2015)

 

Edited October 11, 2023 by alder24

[therunner he/him]

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

Sazed ran to Luthadel in WoA using just his steelminds. WoA ch 16&19:

That has nothing to do with F-Steel also speeding up perception. It mentions nothing of the sort.

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

While yes - Marasi "tapped everything" - if she tapped zinc along steel, Wax wouldn't have enough mind speed to think about so many possibilities in between two words his uncle was speaking. And Wax said that steelmind was almost empty - zincmind would be empty as well.

Or F-Zinc was less compressed, or there was more F-Zinc. Multiple possibilities.

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

And there is a temporal effect associated with F-steel. So yes, F-steel allows you to move around with your brain being capable of perceiving what's going on around you like you were moving with a normal speed.

  Reveal hidden contents

Calderis

I recently got the opportunity to ask you a question about Feruchemical steel and if it was a temporal effect and you told me to define that better. When tapping steel, the mind of the Feruchemist is sped up and physics affects their actions normally. When storing, their mind is not slowed and the effect seems tortuously difficult to amass. Storing generally seems to be the more dangerous/difficult option in Feruchemy, so does [Feruchemical steel] alter a person's personal relationship to the flow of time, with the disconnect between the Physical and Cognitive as a drawback of storing?

Brandon Sanderson

I see what you're asking. The mind-altering effects of [Feruchemical steel] are similar to the slight strength you gain from [Feruchemical iron]--it is your Spiritual nature adapting to the new influx of an attribute that it's not really expecting, and siphoning some of that investiture to make you capable of actually using it. So there is a slight temporal effect here, but nothing as big as I think you're looking for.

Footnote: This question is a follow-up to this question.
Skyward Pre-Release AMA (Oct. 31, 2018)

 

WoB does not say that, in fact it says there is only slight temporal effect. He likens it to strength gain in F-Iron, and we know that is heavily limited and is nowhere near the same as gain of mass. (and has other limitation, like that you don't hit as hard as you should).

So based on that analogy, F-Steel won't increase your perception speed/mental speed to the same extent as your physical speed. So increase might be there, but simply increasing unconscious reflexes would suffice as 'making you capable of using it'.

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

 F-zinc is different, it makes you better at making logical leaps and doing math.

  Reveal hidden contents

Alteroden

With [Feruchemical] zinc, you get mental speed. How is that any different from [Feruchemical] steel, except without [physical] speed?

Brandon Sanderson

I think of the mental speed actually turning you into... Let's say you sped up your body, and you wanted to figure out some really complex equations.

Alteroden

So it lets you have intuitive leaps.

Brandon Sanderson

Right. It basically turns you into Ken Jennings. That's how I imagine it.

Kurkistan

So it's not like bullet time?

Brandon Sanderson

No... It'll bullet time a little bit, it certainly will, because you're thinking faster than everyone else, but it has applications beyond bullet timing. Bullet time is really--

Kurkistan

That’s steel’s thing?

Brandon Sanderson

That’s kind of steel's thing. They kind of overlap on that one, because the steel thing... But yeah. It's more like "I think fast, but my reaction speed is not sped up".

Shadows of Self Chicago signing (Oct. 12, 2015)

 

We see F-Zinc in Era 1 and Era 2, it is basically bullet time. And sure there will be other effects, like intuitive leaps etc, but the core is you think and perceive faster, you just cannot move and react at that speed.

So if they are complementary, then F-steel lets you move and react fast, but you cannot consciously think or perceive that fast. E.g. you could instinctively catch an arrow or bullet, but you would not consciously notice it until you already caught it.

[..... he/him]

F-electrum + A-electrum + A-pewter preferably have atium but not necessary A-pewter could be switched with F-zinc just depends but anyways strategy is to store up tons of determination maybe go to a soothing parlor and get your depression soothed away and your determination rioted but either way store up lots of it Cuz I have a theory that you tapped enough all at once that are kind of like put you in like sort of a koloss battle rage but for you and then you'd be like hyperfocused on one thing and that's all you could do and then you just like Destroy everyone who tried to stop you and then you probably start running on mostly adrenaline too you could probably take more damage before being out of the game the pewter would be to increase your reflexes and speeds and strength and also make you be able to take more damage so we'll take longer to put you out of the fight and then the allomantic electrum is you would want to train yourself into reacting to it is just what your body does like if you see one you will react to it without you having to think about it or doing anything so then as you run along to do your one thing your body will Dodge and attack as it sees fit switching pewter with f zinc would be so that you could comprehend the Shadows better and replacing electrum with atium for burning would be so that it's more instinctive and also it's better to see what other people are doing than you 

Edited October 11, 2023 by .....