Lost Metal Identity Contamination in compounding

[Steelsight he/him]

Hello! I just joined the 17th Shard and even though you geniuses probably already figured it out, I wanted to at least post the theory i had on Identity Contamination since the moment I finished The Lost Metal.

In the book, Marsh says that the Set hadn't figured out a way to Compound yet because of Identity Contamination, and in the Ars Arcanum it says that "The secret to cracking why this is, and how to circumvent it, could be of utmost importance to those watching Hemalurgy and its (presumed) danger to the cosmere as a whole."

And I think I figured it out.

Hemalurgy works by ripping an Aspect of a person's Spirit Web and stapling it onto another person, granting them that Aspect.

However, from the term "Identity Contamination" we can infer a likely possibility: that along with a person's Aspect, a tiny fragment of their Identity is also taken.
Which means that if a Feruchemical Hemalurgist were to create a metalmind that metalmind would be keyed (at least partially, i think) to the original Feruchemist.

And from a scene in TFE where Vin tries to burn Sazed's pwetermind we that an Allomancer (even one that can burn the proper metal), just like a Feruchemist, cannot access anothers metalmind.

Now that we understand (or at least understand a theory of) why Identity Contamination happens and why it affects Compounding, we can solve it.

In BOM we learned of unkeyed and unsealed metalminds (we will leave unsealed metalminds aside for now, as those relate more to Investiture than Identity).

An unkeyed metalmind is a special kind of metalmind that anyone with the relevant Feruchemical ability can access. They are created through manipulation of Identity, such as through aluminum Feruchemy. Whereas a conventional metalmind is keyed to the Identity of the Feruchemist who created it, unkeyed metalminds are not attuned to any specific individual's Identity (we saw one that Wayne took in New Seran).

So now we have a solution for Compounding via Hemalurgy: The amount of spikes you need varies depending on how many powers you want to Compound, but the minimum amount of spikes (the ability to Compound one power) is three. First, you need to steal the power of an Aluminium Ferring (granting you the ability to manipulate your identity). Then, you need to steal the powers of an Allomancer and Feruchemist of the same metal (if we take steel as an example, you'd need the powers of a Coinshot and a Steelrunner). Now you need  to store all of your Identity before you store the Feruchemical attribute you want to Compound (such as speed), thus creating an unkeyed metalmind, you burn it* and begin to Compound (in the example: becoming the Flash).
 

Edited October 3, 2023 by Steelsight

[alder24]

Hello, welcome to the Shard! 

51 minutes ago, Steelsight said:

However, from the term "Identity Contamination" we can infer a likely possibility: that along with a person's Aspect, a tiny fragment of their Identity is also taken.

You're right, WoB:

Spoiler

Yata

If a Ferring creates a metalmind and then loses his power (for example through Hemalurgy), could he still use his previous-made metalmind ?

Brandon Sanderson

No, he could not. And, unfortunately, the person who stole a bit of his soul would probably be keyed with enough Identity to use his metalmind. (This is uncertain, though, based on how much of the soul got ripped off, and how much the spike has decayed.)

/r/books AMA 2015 (Sept. 3, 2015)

 

54 minutes ago, Steelsight said:

Which means that if a Feruchemical Hemalurgist were to create a metalmind that metalmind would be keyed (at least partially, i think) to the original Feruchemist.

Well, yes but there isn't that much of it. The investiture in metalminds would be keyed primarily to a Hemalurgist (but the ability itself stolen by spike is not, it's keyed to the original Feruchemist):

Spoiler

[...]

WeiryWriter (in response to the first answer)

If the spike granting Feruchemy were to be reforged/split into two distinct spikes which are then implanted into two different people, could those two people "share" a metalmind (as in actually be able to tap something the other stored and vice versa?).

Brandon Sanderson

It's complicated, but no.

There would be too much of the other person mixed in. Both could use the metalminds of the person the Feruchemy was stolen from, but when they made their own, their own Identity would "muddy" the creation.

Worldbuilders AMA (Dec. 7, 2015)

 

59 minutes ago, Steelsight said:

And from a scene in TFE where Vin tries to burn Sazed's pwetermind we that an Allomancer (even one that can burn the proper metal), just like a Feruchemist, cannot access anothers metalmind.

IF they are keyed. If Sazed unkeyed his metalmind, Vin would be able to compound, at least that would work in Era 1, not sure if in Era 2.

1 hour ago, Steelsight said:

So now we have a solution for Compounding via Hemalurgy: The amount of spikes you need varies depending on how many powers you want to Compound, but the minimum amount of spikes (the ability to Compound one power) is three. First, you need to steal the power of an Aluminium Ferring (granting you the ability to manipulate your identity). Then, you need to steal the powers of an Allomancer and Feruchemist of the same metal (if we take steel as an example, you'd need the powers of a Coinshot and a Steelrunner). Now you need  to store all of your Identity before you store the Feruchemical attribute you want to Compound (such as speed), thus creating an unkeyed metalmind, you burn it* and begin to Compound (in the example: becoming the Flash).

That seems like a plausible solution, good job, I don't think I've seen this one before. But there is only one question remaining - can you store the identity of the spike's investiture with F-aluminum? If not, your powers of Allomancy and corresponding Feruchemy are still keyed to different people and this might still prevent you from compounding. But the Set was somehow able to produce unkeyed metalminds for their Hemalurgists, so I think it would store identity of spikes as well (because technically speaking the piece of soul contained in the spike is now hotwired into your soul, so it's considered as a part of your soul - therefore you can store it). This should work, but you need to find an aluminum Ferring, who are very rare.

Another possibility, more popular and often proposed, is to just have an aluminum medallion and give them to your victims before stealing powers from them - they will store their identity in the medallion and you have an unkeyed spike, which should allow you to compound. While it might be hard to convince them to store identity before their death just like that, so it's an unreliable way. 

[Steelsight he/him]

thanks for the reply!

41 minutes ago, alder24 said:

You're right, WoB:

 

Woohoo!

41 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Another possibility, more popular and often proposed, is to just have an aluminum medallion and give them to your victims before stealing powers from them - they will store their identity in the medallion and you have an unkeyed spike, which should allow you to compound. While it might be hard to convince them to store identity before their death just like that, so it's an unreliable way.

That's a very realistic possibily, especially if you have your victims under duress in a controlled enviroment. though I still like my solution more (probably since I'm biased  ) because it allows for a more dynamic manipulation of your Identity should you start collecting more powers.

[alder24]

17 minutes ago, Steelsight said:

That's a very realistic possibily, especially if you have your victims under duress in a controlled enviroment. though I still like my solution more (probably since I'm biased  ) because it allows for a more dynamic manipulation of your Identity should you start collecting more powers.

True, but with 3 spikes you're already at the limit - if you add a 4th one you will expose yourself to Harmony, and he could Hemalurgically control you. Moreover you can add only 1 more spike granting you a power, as your soul accepts only powers/attributes from 4 spikes (TLM Ars Arcanum). You definitely can do some cool, for now unknown stuff with Identity manipulation, that's a positive at least, but you have to be careful with picking compounding powers.

However, depending on where you place those spikes, and what powers do they grant, you might be able to switch spikes like Paalm in SoS did - but unlike her you have to be very careful as you can't regenerate and removing spikes can be deadly.

[Steelsight he/him]

47 minutes ago, alder24 said:

True, but with 3 spikes you're already at the limit - if you add a 4th one you will expose yourself to Harmony, and he could Hemalurgically control you. Moreover you can add only 1 more spike granting you a power, as your soul accepts only powers/attributes from 4 spikes (TLM Ars Arcanum). You definitely can do some cool, for now unknown stuff with Identity manipulation, that's a positive at least, but you have to be careful with picking compounding powers.

However, depending on where you place those spikes, and what powers do they grant, you might be able to switch spikes like Paalm in SoS did - but unlike her you have to be very careful as you can't regenerate and removing spikes can be deadly.

Very true.

Man, I seriously can't wait for Era 3 for more theorizing material.  

[therunner he/him]

Welcome to Shard! A nice theory

I will offer a bit of a dissenting opinion (because apparently that is what I do fro some reason), that will be partially couched in 'meta'-arguments

3 hours ago, Steelsight said:

So now we have a solution for Compounding via Hemalurgy: The amount of spikes you need varies depending on how many powers you want to Compound, but the minimum amount of spikes (the ability to Compound one power) is three. First, you need to steal the power of an Aluminium Ferring (granting you the ability to manipulate your identity). Then, you need to steal the powers of an Allomancer and Feruchemist of the same metal (if we take steel as an example, you'd need the powers of a Coinshot and a Steelrunner). Now you need  to store all of your Identity before you store the Feruchemical attribute you want to Compound (such as speed), thus creating an unkeyed metalmind, you burn it* and begin to Compound (in the example: becoming the Flash).

I think this is partially there, in that I think you cannot Compound unkeyed metalminds, but removing Identity is important step.

Reason for that is simple, Compounding with unkeyed metalminds would distort the world too much. Unkeyed metalminds are relatively easy to make, so in fully modern society, they would relatively common good. And that leads to problems, because suddenly any Misting or Ferring can be Compounder.
The way Brandon restricted Hemalurgy is rather strong suggestion that he does not want Compounders to be too common. But he clearly wants it to be possible, just rather difficult to achieve, as the Ars Arcanum hints at possibility of overcoming this.

For that I would propose that to Compound you need two things:

1. Both Allomantic and Feruchemical powers have your Identity only.
   • This means you either have to be born with the powers, or you have to re-key the spike to your Identity, which would involved stripping it of Identity in the first place.
2. The metalmind must be keyed to your Identity.
   • This would be easy, if you can do step one.

This is more difficult than just creation of unkeyed metalminds, but theoretically possible with clever application of F-Aluminum (or perhaps F-Duralumin would be needed as well, so that the power is sufficiently strongly Connected to your spiritweb).

 

Sidenote:

2 hours ago, alder24 said:

IF they are keyed. If Sazed unkeyed his metalmind, Vin would be able to compound, at least that would work in Era 1, not sure if in Era 2.

Workings of Feruchemy and Allomancy did not change, only Hemalurgy. So either Vin could compound in both Eras or none. Personally I think she would be unable to Compound unkeyed metalmind for reason given above.

Edited October 3, 2023 by therunner

[Steelsight he/him]

7 minutes ago, therunner said:

Welcome to Shard! A nice theory

Thanks! happy to be here

8 minutes ago, therunner said:

I think this is partially there, in that I think you cannot Compound unkeyed metalminds, but removing Identity is important step.

Reason for that is simple, Compounding with unkeyed metalminds would distort the world too much.

In what way does compounding with unkeyed metalminds distorts the world?

9 minutes ago, therunner said:

For that I would propose that to Compound you need two things:

1. Both Allomantic and Feruchemical powers have your Identity only.
   • This means you either have to be born with the powers, or you have to re-key the spike to your Identity, which would involved stripping it of Identity in the first place.
2. The metalmind must be keyed to your Identity.
   • This would be easy, if you can do step one

Would both of those conditions be satisfied if you continued to store your Identity not only through the storing of the attribute you wanted to compound but also whilst you burn the metalmind?

[alder24]

14 minutes ago, therunner said:

Reason for that is simple, it would distort the world too much. Unkeyed metalminds are relatively easy to make, so in fully modern society, they would relatively common good. And that leads to problems, because suddenly any Misting or Ferring can be Compounder.
The way Brandon restricted Hemalurgy is rather strong suggestion that he does not want Compounders to be too common. But he clearly wants it to be possible, just rather difficult to achieve, as the Ars Arcanum hints at possibility of overcoming this.

Possibly but on the other hand Kelsier's goal is not only to democratize Metallic Arts, but also make them stronger, and provide a new fuel source in the form of raw investiture instead of metals. The power-up of Metallic Arts will happen, and has to happen so they can compete with future threats, therefore popularization of compounding can also happen - to provide a stronger fuel source for Feruchemy. However it's true that this might be a step too far. We'll see.

 

19 minutes ago, therunner said:

Workings of Feruchemy and Allomancy did not change, only Hemalurgy. So either Vin could compound in both Eras or none.

Right, my bad, I don't know what I was thinking about writing that.

[therunner he/him]

1 hour ago, Steelsight said:

In what way does compounding with unkeyed metalminds distorts the world?

The power it provides is huge, e.g. every Coinshot can suddenly do the same things Bleeder did, every A-Gold Allomancer can heal like Miles, etc. Sure they need to get their hands on metalminds, but those are not necessarily as rare. Allomancers are about 1 in 100 if I remember right, Compounders are rarer than 1 in 1 600 000. And while yes, they would not be true Compounders (since they could not store without Hemalurgy), they would be ~50% way there with access to unkeyed Metalminds.

Scadrial is intended as 'Earth' analogue (with of course some things enabled by Invested Arts). I feel Invested Arts on this scale would go against that idea. My feeling of course, though I do consider the fact that Hemalurgy was intentionally weakens by Brandon to be a supportive evidence.

1 hour ago, Steelsight said:

Would both of those conditions be satisfied if you continued to store your Identity not only through the storing of the attribute you wanted to compound but also whilst you burn the metalmind?

Hmm, possibly. Though it is not possible to store 100% of attribute, which could present issues.
Also, you would still have to strip Identity from the spike itself, which I don't think F-Aluminum itself would be capable of (as the content of the spike is not 'your' soul).

58 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Possibly but on the other hand Kelsier's goal is not only to democratize Metallic Arts, but also make them stronger, and provide a new fuel source in the form of raw investiture instead of metals. The power-up of Metallic Arts will happen, and has to happen so they can compete with future threats, therefore popularization of compounding can also happen - to provide a stronger fuel source for Feruchemy. However it's true that this might be a step too far. We'll see.

Kelsier wants to do that, but that does not mean he will succeed, especially with Sazed seemingly opposed to those ideas. Medallion tech is a way to democratize at least some of Feruchemy.
Same with raw Investiture, it is possible they will have to buy it/steal it from Sel, unless they figure out a way to harness Mists.

And to combat future threats they can go more in the direction of mechanized Investiture, like their eventual starships. It is entirely possible that individual Mistings/Ferrings will not get stronger themselves, they will just have better supporting tools.

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

Right, my bad, I don't know what I was thinking about writing that.

No problem, happens to all of us.

[alder24]

2 minutes ago, therunner said:

Hmm, possibly. Though it is not possible to store 100% of attribute, which could present issues.

F-copper. The existence of blanked metalminds seems to prove that F-aluminum works like F-copper.

[..... he/him]

8 hours ago, therunner said:

I think this is partially there, in that I think you cannot Compound unkeyed metalminds, but removing Identity is important step.

 

Quote

 

Kurkistan

Could an Augur Compound Health out of a goldmind if its proper owner messed with Identity in the right way?

Brandon Sanderson

This is possible

General Signed Books 2014 (Jan. 22, 2014)

 

you can compound unsealed metalminds.

[therunner he/him]

5 hours ago, ..... said:

Quote

Kurkistan

Could an Augur Compound Health out of a goldmind if its proper owner messed with Identity in the right way?

Brandon Sanderson

This is possible

General Signed Books 2014 (Jan. 22, 2014)

you can compound unsealed metalminds.

Technically that WoB does not say you can compound with unsealed metalmind. Only that you can Compound with metalminds of others if the Identity was messed with in the right way.

That can be making them Identity-less, but it can also be overwriting them with Identity of the person who wants to burn them.

 

But I do admit that the first interpretation is more likely. Thanks for that WoB!

@alder24

Quote

F-copper. The existence of blanked metalminds seems to prove that F-aluminum works like F-copper.

We know nothing of F-aluminum, so saying blank metalminds prove it works like F-Copper is a bit of a stretch.

And theoretically it is possible that even F-copper does not store 100%, e.g. very weak left-over remains (but such weak memory could not be really remembered and would lack most of the information).
 

Edited October 4, 2023 by therunner

[alder24]

1 hour ago, therunner said:

We know nothing of F-aluminum, so saying blank metalminds prove it works like F-Copper is a bit of a stretch.

I said "seems to prove" - Imply would be a better way to say it. Nothing concrete but it points towards one of two explanations.

1 hour ago, therunner said:

And theoretically it is possible that even F-copper does not store 100%, e.g. very weak left-over remains (but such weak memory could not be really remembered and would lack most of the information).

F-copper is different. Once you store memory it's gone from your mind. You don't need to store memory constantly to get rid of it, you don't have any time limitation of how long you can tap a memory, you probably can't even tap it with diminishing returns as a memory isn't stored in a certain timeframe, it just is. It's an on and off switch, unlike all other Feruchemical attributes that we know off. Medallion portion of nicrosil works just like a coppermind - on and off switch. Because unkeyed and unsealed metalminds seem to be completely devoid of any identity, this is a strong suggestion that identity works like memories - you either have it or not. For me it would make sense that identity and F-aluminum work in the same way. Of course we know too little to know that for sure, but it's a possibility worthy of consideration.

[therunner he/him]

18 minutes ago, alder24 said:

I said "seems to prove" - Imply would be a better way to say it. Nothing concrete but it points towards one of two explanations.

Ah, sorry for misunderstanding then. It sounded to me as a stronger assertion than you meant it. Mae culpa.

18 minutes ago, alder24 said:

F-copper is different. Once you store memory it's gone from your mind. You don't need to store memory constantly to get rid of it, you don't have any time limitation of how long you can tap a memory, you probably can't even tap it with diminishing returns as a memory isn't stored in a certain timeframe, it just is. It's an on and off switch, unlike all other Feruchemical attributes that we know off. Medallion portion of nicrosil works just like a coppermind - on and off switch. Because unkeyed and unsealed metalminds seem to be completely devoid of any identity, this is a strong suggestion that identity works like memories - you either have it or not. For me it would make sense that identity and F-aluminum work in the same way. Of course we know too little to know that for sure, but it's a possibility worthy of consideration.

Good reasoning. Though I would point out that unsealed Metalminds do have some Identity, their own:

Spoiler

Raddatatta

In Era 1, Sazed says the only thing you can Feruchemically store while sleeping is wakefulness, but in Era 2 they have the sky ships that require everyone to be storing weight to fly and they don't land while people sleep. Was Sazed just wrong, or is that a difference between normal Feruchemy and using the unsealed metalminds?

Brandon Sanderson

Unsealed metalminds, I am moving toward complete—you probably already guessed this—mechanical uses of Investiture, and this indeed is a step toward that. And so we are stepping toward having a little machine that gives you powers. That's what the world wants to try to find. And this is—this being mechanical—we'll just say that the medallions and the things that they're building have more of a life-force, more of an Identity of their own than a traditional metalmind does, even though they're unkeyed and all of this stuff.

YouTube Spoiler Stream 5 (Dec. 2, 2022)

That is what allows users to store/tap even when sleeping.

And even the phrasing suggests that Identity can be stronger or weaker.
He also mentioned 'completly blanking', which implies partial blanking of Identity is possible. WoB

Spoiler

Brandon Sanderson

So one of the things people have been asking about a lot the nature of Identity and its uses for accessing other people's metalminds, and things like this right. And I hedged a little bit when somebody asked me... *inaudible*...send people into spirals of confusion, so I'm gonna clarify it for now. So, someone comes in and says, we need a blank metalmind, anybody can use that. I'm like, yes but, the reason that it's a hedge is that you need to actually be a feruchemist to access it, right, you can't just hold the blank metalmind not being a feruchemist, even though it's somebody else's investiture that's been blanked, right. So people keep kind of missing this thing. I'm hedging in the sort of, you don't quite have it, I've kind of dodged it, but I worry that it's just going to be confusing.

So the issue is, you need two things from one of these. You need something that makes you a feruchemist, and then you need a metalmind that somebody else has filled with blank investiture, ok. Now if you can get pure investiture, that can be used by anybody, regardless, ok, you need it in pure form though. But, so there are some other tricks with this as well that don't make it...so anyway, you've got a couple of things that can go on. So you've got a blank metalmind, right, with nothing. You need either investiture, to be able...like you need to be the right type. There are ways to access that if you are completely blank also, if you were a blank slate, but that is still...kind of hard. It's even harder if you are blank, and the metalmind is not blank, but that's not what they're doing in Mistborn right now. You are tapping investiture, gaining the ability of feruchemy and then you are drawing out a blank metalmind, ok. That's the one you need to be...and everything else I'm hedging on intentionally, and I'm worried I hedged in a way that made it sound confusing, ok. So you know now what they're doing. You know that there are other things possible. But I don't want you to think that you have the explanations for how all those things happen, ok.

Arcanum Unbounded Seattle signing (Dec. 1, 2016)

And in BoM ch. 3 VenDell says "...Feruchemist divest himself of all Identity", which again implies you can divest yourself of only a bit of Identity.

But it is possible he has not fully decided yet, in some WoBs from ~2018 he avoids answering with the reason being he does not want to lock himself down to mechanics that won't suit what he needs.


And to return to my original assertion, here Brandon mentions that blanked person using blanked metalmind will work a bit better than person with Identity using blank metalmind. If there is some friction even on this normal level, it might present complication for Compounding also:

Spoiler

Brandon Sanderson

If you can...there are ways to make this happen but the best way to make what you're talking about happen, is to be filling your own Identity while having a blank metalmind. That is the best way, obviously. But there are other workarounds for both situations, like a blank metalmind is pretty easy to use. It's blank. But if you were blank, and using a blank, it's a little better. 

Questioner

Ok. Because you're both blank.

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, and so I'll give you the mechanics of all this eventually, they're just trying to still figure it all out themselves. Because right now they're just doing things they've been told "do this" but they don't know the why's. But if you are blank and have a metalmind that has an Identity, right, that is not an impossible situation that you're in either.

Arcanum Unbounded Seattle signing (Dec. 1, 2016)

 

[Trusk'our he/him]

23 hours ago, Steelsight said:

So now we have a solution for Compounding via Hemalurgy: The amount of spikes you need varies depending on how many powers you want to Compound, but the minimum amount of spikes (the ability to Compound one power) is three. First, you need to steal the power of an Aluminium Ferring (granting you the ability to manipulate your identity). Then, you need to steal the powers of an Allomancer and Feruchemist of the same metal (if we take steel as an example, you'd need the powers of a Coinshot and a Steelrunner). Now you need  to store all of your Identity before you store the Feruchemical attribute you want to Compound (such as speed), thus creating an unkeyed metalmind, you burn it* and begin to Compound (in the example: becoming the Flash).
 

I think that this should work as long as the Spikes are able to have their Identity Blanked by the Hemalurgist bearing them. It is possible that they would be counted as another separate thing, but we can't be certain on that yet. As @alder24 mentioned, it also may be possible to Feruchemically Blank the Identity of the donor as the spike is being charged, which would potentially remove the need for you to bear an extra spike, although you'd need more cooperation from the donor.

Also, if you were worried about needing an extra spike to make the process work, you could have an ally Hemalurgist hold the F-aluminum granting spike for you and Compound all the Feruchemical attributes you'd need. Then you take the filled Unkeyed Metalminds and use them as you please. It definitely requires more cooperation, but I could see a group like the Set pulling it off.

Cool idea! Keep coming up with more!

[Steelsight he/him]

7 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

I think that this should work as long as the Spikes are able to have their Identity Blanked by the Hemalurgist bearing them. It is possible that they would be counted as another separate thing, but we can't be certain on that yet. As @alder24 mentioned, it also may be possible to Feruchemically Blank the Identity of the donor as the spike is being charged, which would potentially remove the need for you to bear an extra spike, although you'd need more cooperation from the donor.

Also, if you were worried about needing an extra spike to make the process work, you could have an ally Hemalurgist hold the F-aluminum granting spike for you and Compound all the Feruchemical attributes you'd need. Then you take the filled Unkeyed Metalminds and use them as you please. It definitely requires more cooperation, but I could see a group like the Set pulling it off.

Cool idea! Keep coming up with more!

Thanks! That's the plan!

[JustQuestin2004 he/him]

Here's a little curveball of my own about how to deal with Identity Contamination.

Harmonium.

The Malwish showed that it can be used to mimic Feruchemy on a large scale, with it being used to Leech from a distance and, critically, Store the Weight of an entire Airship to help it fly.

So this might mean that it will be possible to use Harmonium to forcibly store away a person's Identity, which you can use to create Identity-free Hemalurgic Spikes. Heck this might be what is needed to create power-granting spikes out of normal people. The Set were trying this by using a small thin spike to non-lethally tear off the extra bit of Preservation in a person, but the spikes they made this way didn't grant powers for very long, likely due to Spiking so many people, thus causing an immense amount of Identity Contamination. 

Though this is just speculation on my part.

[Steelsight he/him]

6 minutes ago, JustQuestin2004 said:

So this might mean that it will be possible to use Harmonium to forcibly store away a person's Identity, which you can use to create Identity-free Hemalurgic Spikes. Heck this might be what is needed to create power-granting spikes out of normal people. The Set were trying this by using a small thin spike to non-lethally tear off the extra bit of Preservation in a person, but the spikes they made this way didn't grant powers for very long, likely due to Spiking so many people, thus causing an immense amount of Identity Contamination. 

Though this is just speculation on my part.

An interesting speculation.

Although, since we don't know Harmoniums' effects when used in Allomancy, Feruchemy and Hemalurgy, there might be more interesting ways to use Harmonium in the futuree of the Cosmere.

but now that I think about it (an I understand that thiss is entirely irrelevant to my original topic), the uses of Harmonium we see in Era 2 aren't Allomantic. Feruchemical or Hemalurgical; so I wonder if the other God Metals have other arcane effects beyond Allomancy, Feruchemy and Hemalurgy (since we know they are all viable for those, as per Brandon).

[Trusk'our he/him]

49 minutes ago, Steelsight said:

but now that I think about it (an I understand that thiss is entirely irrelevant to my original topic), the uses of Harmonium we see in Era 2 aren't Allomantic. Feruchemical or Hemalurgical; so I wonder if the other God Metals have other arcane effects beyond Allomancy, Feruchemy and Hemalurgy (since we know they are all viable for those, as per Brandon).

Yes, all Godmetals have an extra thing that they do beyond the Metallic Arts;

Quote

Hero of Ages Q&A - Time Waster's Guide - Arcanum (coppermind.net)

Czanos

Does every metal have a Feruchemical and Hemalurgic property? If not, are there metals which have Feruchemical or Hemalurgic properties which do not have Allomantic ones?

Brandon Sanderson

Every metal has a Feruchemical, an Allomantic, and a Hemalurgic property. The godly metals each also do something else. There are several interesting Feruchemical powers yet to be discovered and revealed in the next series. Feruchemy is less widely understood because there were so few practitioners in the modern era, and a lot of the time they were too afraid of capture to really study and use their powers.

We can see this in SA too;

Spoiler

The Honorblades are made of Honor's pure Investiture (granting powers may be unique to them and not an inherant aspect of Honor' Godmetal though), Radiant Shardblades are made of Cultivation's and Honor's alloyed metals (supernaturally light, durable, and able to cut through just about any inanimate object as well as living thing's Spiritwebs), and Raysium (which conducts Investiture) is made of Odium's pure Investiture.

 

Edited October 4, 2023 by Trusk'our

[Steelsight he/him]

Spoiler

Quote

We can see this in SA too;

The Honorblades are made of Honor's pure Investiture (granting powers may be unique to them and not an inherant aspect of Honor' Godmetal though), Radiant Shardblades are made of Cultivation's and Honor's alloyed metals (supernaturally light, durable, and able to cut through just about any inanimate object as well as living thing's Spiritwebs), and Raysium (which conducts Investiture) is made of Odium's pure Investiture.

 

 

That's right! I forgot that we already saw an example of this. thank you!

Edited October 4, 2023 by Steelsight