Ch. 85 Epigraph Refers to Hoid

[Vaspin]

Admittedly, I don't think it's even possible to guess who the "wanderer" is. The writing is so vague (deliberately vague, in fact) that any male person- on or off Roshar- could be him, just as long as his presence throws a wrench into Taravangian's speculations.

 

My best guesses are:

 

-Kaladin

-Dalinar

-Hoid

-Mraize

-Wyndle

-Szeth

-Axies

-Pattern

-Ishikk

-Cenn

-Baxil

-Av

-Fleet the Swift

-Gaz

-Grulrv (yes it's a name)

-Hab

-Habatab

-Habrin

-Habsent

-Jaks

-Javel

-Jarah

-Jam (also a name)

-Butter

-Morgan Freeman

-Brandon Sanderson

 

I'm not sure if you are being facetious or hyperbolic( maybe both). Never mind the fact you can make an educated guess to who the wanderer is by the nature of an educated guess, but there is a strong leaning to it being Hoid.

 

In Taravangian's god mode, apparently nothing is outside of his reach. He sees all and knows all that he wants to. I believe he is referring to Hoid. That is not the point though. Even if it's not Hoid, the reason for mentioning this piece of information is to say there is a man whose very existence gives omniscient-Taravangian pause. It's supposed to make you wonder about the nature of his discovery. Which adds more weight to Hoid being the man in question, because his goals are both mysterious and have Cosmere-related implications.  

[Corax]

I'm late to the party and new to the forum, but what about Tvlakv as the aforementioned wanderer? Of the new Knights Radiant, he's had at least three of them in that wagon of his. If there was ever a wanderer who was moving pieces around Roshar, it's him.

[The Honor Spren]

I'm late to the party and new to the forum, but what about Tvlakv as the aforementioned wanderer? Of the new Knights Radiant, he's had at least three of them in that wagon of his. If there was ever a wanderer who was moving pieces around Roshar, it's him.

Friendly heads up, most people around here frown upon reawakening a lifeless thread (some call it necroing). If you want to talk about this stuff, make a new one. I, personally, don't mind, but some people are really touchy about it.

[Pestis the Spider]

Friendly heads up, most people around here frown upon reawakening a lifeless thread (some call it necroing). If you want to talk about this stuff, make a new one. I, personally, don't mind, but some people are really touchy about it.

Doesn't it only make terrible mess and hundreds of useless topics if we create a new thread for the same topic each time the old ones gets dead old?

 

I mean, I've read the rules, I know how necroing is treated, but I've never heard about posting a second thread for the same thing. Wouldn't that be even worse?

 

Sorry for off-top.

Edited September 2, 2015 by Pestis the Spider

[natc]

Well, the previous necro we had occurring was literally just saying something said before WoR came out was wrong, based on WoR reveals. It really only fit the topic tangentially. Storms, the quoted statement was in January, when the next recent post prior to the necro was March.

You're getting straight to the point and are actually talking about the epigraph, so it's not too bad.

[Corax]

Friendly heads up, most people around here frown upon reawakening a lifeless thread (some call it necroing). If you want to talk about this stuff, make a new one. I, personally, don't mind, but some people are really touchy about it.

Thank you. Honestly it's a poor read on my part... I somehow missed that it was a post from August of last year rather than this year. I feel very foolish.

[The Honor Spren]

Thank you. Honestly it's a poor read on my part... I somehow missed that it was a post from August of last year rather than this year. I feel very foolish.

Don't worry about it, it happens to all of us at some point or another.

[DreamEternal]

There was nothing wrong in bringing this thread back. It is relevant, up to date(since it is not like any new WoB came about that rattle) and Corax added an interesting, if unlikely, possibility.

[SweetLift]

I do think that it could be referring to Hoid.

What I find interesting is Adro's pondering it to be Moraize. I thought the diagram and Ghost bloods were 2 seperate factions. Before this mention of the wonderer, Moraize refers to someone as a harmless old man or fool, I thought he was referring to King T. So, how does the diagram faction know of Moraize? Could he a plant/informant? Maybe I am reading too much into it...

[Curiosity]

I do think that it could be referring to Hoid.

What I find interesting is Adro's pondering it to be Moraize. I thought the diagram and Ghost bloods were 2 seperate factions. Before this mention of the wonderer, Moraize refers to someone as a harmless old man or fool, I thought he was referring to King T. So, how does the diagram faction know of Moraize? Could he a plant/informant? Maybe I am reading too much into it...

 

They are separate groups, but here's the catch: When Taravangian wrote the Diagram, he knew things he couldn't have possibly known from just sitting in his room. (I'm toying around with the idea that Taravangian could be a Sliver. Cultivation was always better at reading the future than Honor.) Learning about Mraize and the Ghostbloods is not unlikely, but I personally think that Hoid is who the Diagram describes in this bit.

 

(By the way, are you basing the spelling of Mraize off of the audiobook? I'm just curious. I've had my fair share of misspellings and mispronunciations. My brother keeps correcting me about "day-lek" or "dah-lek.")

[Yata]

Brandon says that King T. after write the Diagram thought at his work as a product of a Ultra Genius' Intellect.

 

But probably is not so simple.

 

I remember a guy that propose the teory about King T. He thought that the king every day wake up with his balance in the cognitive and spiritual realm shifted. When T. is genius-less empatic his cognitive aspect is strong and the spiritual weak and vice versa.

 

Then recently Brandon stated (talk about the atium) that a access to the cognitive realm are a requisite for foresight.

 

So probably T have just had visions of the future while he was a genius and coded them in the Diagram (maybe to trick himself). 

[Ansalem]

When Taravangian wrote the Diagram, he knew things he couldn't have possibly known from just sitting in his room. 

 

No, he didn't. Whatever information he had before that day was all the information he had on that day. He didn't magically gain knowledge he didn't already have, he just became superhumanly intelligent, so he made connections he otherwise wouldn't have been able to make.

 

Or at least, that's what Taravangian himself believes. Whether or not that's actually the case is yet to be shown.

 

I don't think he's a Sliver, though, because that isn't a one time thing. Besides, why would Cultivation give her Shard to Taravangian for even a brief moment if she intended to pick it back up again? That's insanely risky, he could easily have just kept it.

[DreamEternal]

Rashek couldn't keep Preservation...

Still, I don't think he is a sliver because the only exemple we have of someone who partialy held a shard for a brief period created the storming world of ash.

Still, I like the idea that the Diagram is indee more supernatural than we believe, since I believe all future sight in the cosmere is just that: very good mathematical guesses with otherworldly perception.

Edited September 4, 2015 by CognitivePulsePattern

[Corax]

Still, I don't think he is a sliver because the only exemple we have of someone who partialy held a shard for a brief period created the storming world of ash.

Still, I like the idea that the Diagram is indee more supernatural than we believe, since I believe all future sigh in the cosmere is just that: very good mathematical guesses with otherworldly perception.

 

Not a Sliver, I agree, but perhaps a Splinter's influence? It wouldn't be unfeasible for Cultivation to split off a Splinter of herself the way Endowment split off Splinters as Divine Breath. 

 

Hoid seems like the most obvious choice, but I can't help wanting to figure out how in Damnation Tvlakv fits into things, so he's one of my conspiracy favorites.

[Ari]

The quote itself is taken from the Diagram and Androtagia thinks that it may be referencing Mraize. It makes more sense that it would be referencing Hoid instead.

 

But who is the wanderer, the wild piece, the one who makes no sense? I glimpse at his implications, and the world opens to me. I shy back. Impossible. Is it?

 

Could also apply to Vasher, I suppose, although the "world opening to me" bit would seem to fit Hoid better.

 

As for Mraize, I think we might need to RAFO a bit more on him before it's obvious how he fits in.

[SweetLift]

Curiosity, yes I am 'reading' via audible. However, I don't recall adding putting an O, in Mraize, I think my phone must have taken over. Thanks for correcting me!

[Awesomness]

The quote itself is taken from the Diagram and Androtagia thinks that it may be referencing Mraize. It makes more sense that it would be referencing Hoid instead.

 

But who is the wanderer, the wild piece, the one who makes no sense? I glimpse at his implications, and the world opens to me. I shy back. Impossible. Is it?

 

It obviusly refers to a Whorldhoper, and Mr.T doesn´t know much about worldhopping, or he wouldn´t be so impressed and wouldn´t "shy back".

The only worldhopper we know that has a high profile and interfferes (or tries to) directly in the events in Roshar is Mraize. I think that´s why Androtagia thinks he is the wanderer. I believe Mraize is actually the only  worldhopper Mr.T and Co. are aware of. Just for that reason I´m personally convinced he´s not the wanderer.

We know several other "wanderers" who are intervening in a much subtler way. Like Hoid, Vasher or the 17 sharders.

[windrunner16]

I think it's very probable that Mraize is a Worldhopper. For one, I do believe that it is noted in WoR that Shallan "could not place his accent" (Words of Radiance, Chapter 43 -- "The Ghostbloods" pg. 491, hardcover). Brandon, when in native Rosharan POVs, often describes Worldhoppers in this way. In WoK, in the first interlude in a Purelaker named Ishikk's POV, notes that one of the men with whom he was meeting (confirmed to be Captain Demoux from Mistborn: The Final Empire) sort of looked Alethi, but his accent most certainly did not match his physical appearance (The Way of Kings, Chapter I-1 -- "Ishikk" pg. 200, paperback). Also, Mraize is marked in a sort of parallel to Hoid, the most famous of Worldhoppers, at least twice in WoR. Shallan received a strange visitor during a Middlefest celebration when she was about 13 or 14 years old that revealed her Lightweaving powers to her (Words of Radiance, Chapter 45 -- "Middlefest" pgs. 527-529, hardcover). Later in the novel, Shallan identifies Hoid as this visitor (Words of Radiance, Chapter 55 -- "The Rules of the Game" pg. 641, hardcover). However, when she first meets Mraize, "He reminded her of someone, a man from her childhood. The messenger with the smiling eyes, the enigma who knew so much" (Words of Radiance, Chapter 43 -- "The Ghostbloods" pg. 490, hardcover). Here we can see an evident parallel between Hoid and Mraize. And then there is the thing which this entire thread is about: "'But who is the wanderer, the wild piece, the one who makes no sense? I glimpse at his implications, and the world opens to me. I shy back. Impossible. Is it?' -- From the Diagram, West Wall Psalm of Wonders: paragraph 8 (note by Adrotagia: Could this refer to Mraize?)" (Words of Radiance, epigraph to Chapter 85 -- "Swallowed by the Sky" pg. 1017, hardcover). When I first read this epigraph, before I saw the reference to Mraize, I thought it must obviously refer to Hoid as well. A "wanderer" and a "wild piece"? "One who makes no sense"? A man whose implications fill even super-mind-boggling-awesome-genius Taravangian with awe? Who else could it possibly refer to? Then I saw that Adrotagia had connected this statement with Mraize, making another stark parallel. All this considered, I think that Mraize is most certainly a Worldhopper.

[Landis963]

"I glimpse at his implications, and the world opens to me.  I shy back.  Impossible.  Is it?"

 

This is perhaps off-topic, but I think that confirms that Mr. T saw into Shadesmar during his stroke of genius.  And, back on-topic, I don't believe the "wanderer" who "makes no sense" could be anyone but Hoid.