Combined shard names.

[Underwater_Worldhopper he/him]

On 7/17/2023 at 1:35 PM, alder24 said:

6 hours ago, alder24 said:

That's better. Still unstable, one star would be flung out into the void, but magic will fix that.

It doesn't have to. The moons of Roshar are unstable too, they'll crash into one another or something after a while. And god only knows what's going on on Lumar. so long as it remains stable for the current moment, it should be fine.

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6 hours ago, alder24 said:

Nitpicking time! Two moons? Are they orbiting any planet or just their star? If there is no planet, those are no moons, it's a space station they are a binary planet. Very rare, we haven't found any of such systems yet (Pluto-Charon or Earth-Moon are sometimes proposed to be binary planets but aren't), but it's possible. If they are moons and they have a planet, what planet are they orbiting? Gas giant - that's fine, not sure about shared orbit. Rocky planet like Earth - it's almost impossible for a rocky planet to have 2 big spherical moons, especially on the same orbit around each other.

They orbit each other, as well as orbiting the star and blackhole together. I suppose they would just count as small binary planets, I just call them moons to get the idea across that they're small.

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6 hours ago, alder24 said:

Dude  Really? I envy this system, I would love to witness a star eclipsed by a black hole  

There are some engines that can do that, I think. It's really trippy.

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6 hours ago, alder24 said:

Possible, but dangerous. What's the mass of the star and that black hole (make the star G-type main-sequence star, just like the Sun to avoid problems with no light on planets and with too short lifespan)? Does this black hole consume that star, or are they far away from each other (far away to avoid X-rays emitted from accretion disk, but then black hole is invisible on the sky unless it passes in front of the second star)?  What's the origin of this black hole - is it captured or from a star collapse? Both could be disastrous events for the planetary system, destroying the binary planet for sure if that's a captured black hole. Core collapse implies a massive star, more than 40-90x the mass of the Sun to guarantee no Supernova (which would create so much troubles for the binary planet). But every star big enough to collapse into a Supernova would go through a red giant phase, expanding to such a radius to likely transfer mass to/from the other star, and swallow neighboring planets, or change their orbits, destroying the binary planet. Basically I don't see a way for a binary planet to exist around a black hole. I'm no expert though, I'm just nitpicking. Magic is the answer

I sidestepped all of that in my head by just assuming Invention liked the idea of binary planets and created Nirah and Verdas around a preexisting system with a circumbinary sun and black hole, which I swear I mentioned somewhere in the original post. I think we'd have to mess with the scale of the system a lot to allow for the black hole to have formed from a collapsing star, so let's say that it was captured. The sun would be far enough away from the Black hole's accretion disk to remain unaffected, without getting so far away as to affect the general orbit of Nirah and Verdas. In my mind, they orbit the star and BH as if they were one astronomical mass in the center.

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6 hours ago, alder24 said:

Don't do that. I did math, that's 7x the density of Earth, impossible to exist. Make them just Earth-sized with Earth's gravity. Or play around with lower gravity and smaller planets, like Roshar, that can be fun. Or just make them as dense as Earth/Mercury - lower mass, lower gravity, but real planets - Mercury's gravitational acceleration is 40% of Earth's but has only 30% radius compared to Earth's, on your planets which have larger radius, with real densities, gravity would still be smaller than what's on Mercury.

People living on those planets (with real density) adapted to low mass environment over long period of time (form investiture for example)(can jump really high, and are the highest in Cosmere) but incoming travelers need to use F-iron medallions or Gravity fabrials to live there - cool real mechanic involving the use magi-tech. You can then say that because those devices weren't developed till current times, contact and trade with this system was very limited (plus a black hole would mess up time dilation in CR for trade routes).

I like the idea of gravity being low a lot. I'd used up all my brain cells coming up with a magic system that worked so I was just trying to make the rest of the planet as basic as possible. But the low-gravity environment requiring magi-tech for offworlders works really well.

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6 hours ago, alder24 said:

Red water indicates a huge concentration of iron.

We can augment that into it, so the bacteria need iron to exist and the local life is adapted to the high concentration of it, like you said. That'll also make it just impossible for the bacteria to start propagating in the Verdasan oceans.

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6 hours ago, alder24 said:

Keep in mind, large animals require ridiculous amounts of food. 

I thought of that. I've scaled up basically all of the marine animals and plants to allow for this, and the ones that can't be scaled up will just be really abundant.

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6 hours ago, alder24 said:

That's not how light works  You have darker and murkier water, you have no light propagation in it. Investiture still glows emitting normal physical light.

I figured, but I really liked the idea of a planet where bioluminescence is insanely common in the water, so much so that it's visible from the shore and surface, so I'm gonna fudge the physics here and say that just by nature of having been produced from Investiture, the light is able to pass unobstructed through the bacteria.

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6 hours ago, alder24 said:

Unlikely, unless they were brought there from Yolen, or recreated by a Shard.

They were recreations of Yolish species by Invention.

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6 hours ago, alder24 said:

Sooo they are oceans?  Definition of ocean: a very large expanse of sea, in particular each of the main areas into which the sea is divided geographically.

Small ones, surrounded by land on all sides, with the biggest maybe as big as the arctic ocean. I wanted there to be more land than water on Verdas, to contrast Nirah.

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6 hours ago, alder24 said:

Hold up a minute. You said: Both moons also have extremely strong magnetic fields. You can't have a strong magnetic field without large tectonic activity, especially on a planet where the majority of its surface is land. Either you make it like Roshar (created by Adonalsium with some way to generate magnetic field or you make it tectonically active.

That's what I was getting at, that it was created to have a way to generate a strong magnetic field without tectonic activity. Although, because what I was really after was a lack of plate tectonics, there just as easily could be regular tectonic activity to produce the field.

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6 hours ago, alder24 said:

I wonder how big a cave can get before it collapses on itself. It depends on the depth. No complaints here, just wondering. I like cavy planets.

It definitely goes deep, enough to hide several different ecosystems and 2 whole families of giant animals (As of what the Verdasans have discovered so far ) so well that they're mostly regarded as myths or folklore. I have several different ideas for what the caves themselves are like, differing biomes and microbiomes and such in the different caves and the like, but I haven't given them much analytical thought.

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It's dark so no luminosity is there

I know, but evolution just took them down a path that allowed them to develop highly light-sensitive eyes, which they can coincidentally use to stop themselves from straying too far near the entrances of the caves, plus it helps them avoid humans, who undoubtedly always bring light with them into the caves. It's why they can evade humans so easily, along with their incredible sense of smell and hearing.

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Cough cough Autonomy would like to have a word with you about Taldain.

Autonomy cheats anyway. Not to say that Invention doesn't whisper ideas into the dreams of particularly bright engineers and Inventors that earn his interest, but the Nirans just have such easy access to energy that makes their rise to industrialism astonishingly quick.

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Oh wow, that's cool. Killing your enemy's siblings to make them lose power is a new tactic in future vs threads  

I had originally just thought it would make interesting political intrigue, and the kind of family dynamics that would rise from some children literally, intrinsically being more valuable than the others, not to mention siblings killing each other for actual magical powers. But now that you mention it, I really want to see a separate thread all about how different individuals would fare against one another with the magic systems we make here. Kaladin vs a Chosen, a Sadist vs a Lightbearer, a Mindgrappeler vs a Delegator's Squires, etc.

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Radiants? They throw spheres around like crazy. While they aren't ruling class, they're rich. Elantrians however were a ruling class.

They were rich, yes, but they were also bound to morality and justice through the nature of their oaths, not to mention they had two Shards presiding over them. Not to mention you could become a KR by going to Urithiru for recruitment and becoming a Squire. ELantrians were generally benevolent, and anyone could randomly become one, so they were morally balanced. There's nothing like that here though. It's the same families in control, their wealth, power, and influence accumulating with generations. There isn't even a randomness factor to it, with Lightbearers popping up among the lower classes, it's predictable and regular, and replaceable so long as you can have more children. If the Lightbearers agree amongst themselves, they can go on strike and essentially grind the economy and industry to a halt.

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Is the tech developed on Nirah like fabrials, dependent on magic? Or is it powered by Lightbearers directly (they make electricity in power plants)? Or is it Earth-like tech? This is important.

I'm gonna say no to Niran Fabrials, because I want the two planets to have to work together, so Invention (the Art) provides the real Fabrials. Technology won't be Earth-like, but there would be some similarities. I want it to be dependent on the Lightbearers, so I'm gonna say they produce the electricity themselves, though they can convert enormous amounts of Seashine (maybe I should change the name, it seems a little clunky to me) into lots of electricity very quickly if they want to. They would have batteries at the very least. Inventions can be made to replace Lightbearers in the Investiture-energy conversion, but depending on the type of story you want to tell, that hasn't been deduced yet.

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How? Lightbearers make light, heat and electricity, not propellant (which is mass). They can use electricity or heat to heat up gasses which are later thrown behind the ship, propelling it forward, but having a machine doing it for you is better.

It was a deliberate choice made by the rich and important families to ensure that several Lightbearers were absolutely going to be among the first to contact the Other-Worlders, so that they could scope out what the planet was like and begin making preliminary constructions and make sure they profit off of the new planet.

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It might be cool to make those bacteria unable to live in Verdas' oceans (for example due to low concentration of iron), and thus they have to struggle with artificial enclosures to create Seashine. It sounds more believable than people just being nice and caring for ecosystem 

Yeah that's a much better idea.

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Wait, without intent? Do you mean if someone accidentally does the right steps without wanting to use this art they will still use them?

Yes. The more advanced applications require Intent, but the beauty of Invention is that it's entirely mechanical and built around the natural quirk of Venium, so the basic Inventions can be made by someone entirely by accident too. Technically, if you put a chunk of iron right next to a small piece of Venium and leave a sufficiently hot lantern next to it, it will count as an Invention and begin attracting Investiture. If you want an Invention that can convert Haze into light, heat, or electricity though, that'll require Intent.

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Do Pewter suppresses inventions too?

No. It is very difficult for an Invention to affect another Invention. Even outside of that, Pewter could not supress another Invention, that's something only Aluminum can do. Also, I'm so stupid, I just realised that I never added the effect of Chromium on Venium on the list. It undoes Corruption.

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Is it? Is the god metal used up in the process of creating Haze? If yes then it's end-positive. If the investiture comes from energy (heat) alone than it would likely be end-positive (the investiture itself is used up but comes from external source, heat).

Did you mean End-Neutral the second time? And yes, it's the heat that's being converted into Investiture. The Venium is not used up at all. Note that the conversion only ever happens at a specific temperature, which is linked to the size of the Venium. So if a 5cm³ Venium cube converts heat into Investiture at 70 degrees Celsius, a 10cm³ cube of Venium would convert at 140 degrees, and so on and so on. It means that the smaller Inventions aren't very powerful in terms of Investiture but are very power efficient, whereas the large ones can produce incredible effects but require insane amounts of energy to use. Heating Venium up faster than it converts heat into Investiture will make it surpass its specific temperature requirement, at which point it will stop producing Haze and can instead be forged. 

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That was simply amazing. Congrats on that one (except for the binary planet's density which is still triggering me and I've returned to it like 3 times writing more about it). Fun read and fun ideas, very fun to nitpick and discuss in more details. So good. I really love it.

Thanks :3

Also, I'm ironing out an actual planet and Invested Art for Whimsy, but I need to figure out a new mechanic that will use Investiture to decrease a person's weight. Any ideas??

[alder24]

42 minutes ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

It doesn't have to. The moons of Roshar are unstable too, they'll crash into one another or something after a while. And god only knows what's going on on Lumar. so long as it remains stable for the current moment, it should be fine.

Moons are small, stars are big. So massively huge. Stars changing orbits would drag planets behind destabilizing the entire system. If those stars were made billions of years ago, they would be in a stable orbit, with one star gone long ago. But as I said, magic fixes this problem. 

46 minutes ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

They orbit each other, as well as orbiting the star and blackhole together. I suppose they would just count as small binary planets, I just call them moons to get the idea across that they're small.

The 0.5 radius of Earth is bigger than Mercury, and it is a planet, not a dwarf planet (usually really small planets like Ceres or Pluto). The size of the astronomical body is only one of 3 factors defining a planet - it has to be big enough to be round, it has to orbit directly around its star and it has to dominate on its orbit and clear up other objects from it (like asteroids or smaller planets). Binary planets are fine on all three.

51 minutes ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

There are some engines that can do that, I think. It's really trippy.

In real life  

51 minutes ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

I sidestepped all of that in my head by just assuming Invention liked the idea of binary planets and created Nirah and Verdas around a preexisting system with a circumbinary sun and black hole, which I swear I mentioned somewhere in the original post.

I think you didn't but this fixes it.

54 minutes ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

I thought of that. I've scaled up basically all of the marine animals and plants to allow for this, and the ones that can't be scaled up will just be really abundant.

Microscopic plankton is the food source of whales. It could possibly be a food source for your most gigantic animals, because the larger they are, the less maneuverable they become, and they can't hunt well. Lower gravity helps them, but plankton still is the best source of food for them. And I think they need iron to grow, so your oceans should be full of them.

58 minutes ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

I figured, but I really liked the idea of a planet where bioluminescence is insanely common in the water, so much so that it's visible from the shore and surface, so I'm gonna fudge the physics here and say that just by nature of having been produced from Investiture, the light is able to pass unobstructed through the bacteria.

It still can be. You won't see deep into water, only some limited distance around you. It can look marvelous on the surface of the ocean as bacteria and plankton can glow too, and it can be visible from land, giving you the impression of the entire ocean glowing. 

Spoiler

 

1 hour ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

Small ones, surrounded by land on all sides, with the biggest maybe as big as the arctic ocean. I wanted there to be more land than water on Verdas, to contrast Nirah.

Salt or fresh? They can be still called seas. 

1 hour ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

That's what I was getting at, that it was created to have a way to generate a strong magnetic field without tectonic activity. Although, because what I was really after was a lack of plate tectonics, there just as easily could be regular tectonic activity to produce the field.

Hmm, possible. Venus lacks plate tectonics but is tectonically active, it is periodically flooded by magma which replaces its entire surface every 100 mil years. If there is an active core heat must have a way out, volcanoes should be present. Or Invention did something less catastrophic.

1 hour ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

I have several different ideas for what the caves themselves are like, differing biomes and microbiomes and such in the different caves and the like, but I haven't given them much analytical thought.

Light. There must be a light source. It might be good to make Invention's god metal glow intensely (It can glow only in dark conditions) so it can support ecosystems growing around it. 

1 hour ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

I know, but evolution just took them down a path that allowed them to develop highly light-sensitive eyes

No matter how sensitive your eyes are, in caves, where no sunlight reaches, you can't see at all. All those deep caves should be mostly devoid of life. Echolocation would work, eyes won't. You must have a light source, or you have animals like olms that stay completely motionless for years to conserve energy. 

1 hour ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

They were rich, yes, but they were also bound to morality and justice through the nature of their oaths

Depending on the order. Some just doesn't care.

1 hour ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

Seashine (maybe I should change the name, it seems a little clunky to me)

But I like it!  

1 hour ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

Yes. The more advanced applications require Intent, but the beauty of Invention is that it's entirely mechanical and built around the natural quirk of Venium, so the basic Inventions can be made by someone entirely by accident too. Technically, if you put a chunk of iron right next to a small piece of Venium and leave a sufficiently hot lantern next to it, it will count as an Invention and begin attracting Investiture. If you want an Invention that can convert Haze into light, heat, or electricity though, that'll require Intent.

That's fun but dangerous as you can accidentally set your house aflame.

1 hour ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

Did you mean End-Neutral the second time? And yes, it's the heat that's being converted into Investiture. The Venium is not used up at all.

No I mean end-positive. But can be called end-neutral, depending on the angle you're looking at. The same amount of investiture exists in a closed system so it can be end-neutral. But it worries me that metal isn't used up - you have a perpetuum mobile.

1 hour ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

Note that the conversion only ever happens at a specific temperature, which is linked to the size of the Venium. So if a 5cm³ Venium cube converts heat into Investiture at 70 degrees Celsius, a 10cm³ cube of Venium would convert at 140 degrees, and so on and so on.

That's weird. Why? A cube twice as big would still require 2 times more energy to heat up to 70 *C: Q = m•C•ΔT

1 hour ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

It means that the smaller Inventions aren't very powerful in terms of Investiture but are very power efficient, whereas the large ones can produce incredible effects but require insane amounts of energy to use.

Oh that's why. Ok I see it now.

1 hour ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

Thanks :3

You deserve it, this is fun  

Nothing on Whimsy and mass. My mind used up today's allocation of invention.

[Underwater_Worldhopper he/him]

2 hours ago, alder24 said:

Moons are small, stars are big. So massively huge. Stars changing orbits would drag planets behind destabilizing the entire system. If those stars were made billions of years ago, they would be in a stable orbit, with one star gone long ago. But as I said, magic fixes this problem.

Magic, the ultimate answer. But I'm tempted to leave it as is and then have the Nirans and Verdasans deal with a Bi-planetary crisis

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The 0.5 radius of Earth is bigger than Mercury, and it is a planet, not a dwarf planet (usually really small planets like Ceres or Pluto). The size of the astronomical body is only one of 3 factors defining a planet - it has to be big enough to be round, it has to orbit directly around its star and it has to dominate on its orbit and clear up other objects from it (like asteroids or smaller planets). Binary planets are fine on all three.

Suppose they still count as Planets then, if small ones. I liked the idea of just two tiny moons orbiting each other, but my handle on physics is shaky at best, so I'm not gonna mess with it because two small planets work just as well.

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In real life

Sadly, we'll just have to make do with media

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I think you didn't but this fixes it.

I went back and checked, I indeed did not. I put so much thought and effort into this one, I drew out spiderwebs of spiderwebs to link all the random ideas I had together into a single magic system and planet. Some things, like Chromium and that particular tidbit slipped through the cracks.

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Microscopic plankton is the food source of whales. It could possibly be a food source for your most gigantic animals, because the larger they are, the less maneuverable they become, and they can't hunt well. Lower gravity helps them, but plankton still is the best source of food for them. And I think they need iron to grow, so your oceans should be full of them.

Great, everything works! 

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It still can be. You won't see deep into water, only some limited distance around you. It can look marvelous on the surface of the ocean as bacteria and plankton can glow too, and it can be visible from land, giving you the impression of the entire ocean glowing. 

  Hide contents

 

I wanted it to be more the animals than the bacteria themselves, but it achieves the same general effect, so I'll take it.

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Salt or fresh? They can be still called seas.

a bit of both. 50/50, I'd say. Just to be clear, I mean half of them are saltwater and half are freshwater.

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Hmm, possible. Venus lacks plate tectonics but is tectonically active, it is periodically flooded by magma which replaces its entire surface every 100 mil years. If there is an active core heat must have a way out, volcanoes should be present. Or Invention did something less catastrophic.

Light. There must be a light source. It might be good to make Invention's god metal glow intensely (It can glow only in dark conditions) so it can support ecosystems growing around it.

The idea I had was to have some sections of the deeper caves just be entirely flooded, with tons of hydrothermal vents made specifically by Invention to allow for life to grow there. This would solve both the heat problem and allow for life to exist down there without any specific light sources, though some of the caves I had devised had giant mushroom-like fungi and plants that glowed brightly. It was part of why the Dwellers have eyes (I call them eyes, but they aren't really. It's more like photo-sensitive sensory organs that can tell when luminosity is increasing like we detect temperature. Not as anything visual, but an innate feeling). As part of their life cycle, growing fungi release spores that carry on the wind and infect Dwellers. Once a spore gets inside, the unique interaction between the spore's specialized structure and the inside of the Dweller's body allows the spore to access the Spiritual Realm and use Investiture to grow enough to take over the body of the Dweller in a matter of minutes, kind of like what Cordyceps does. It compels the Dwellers to seek out where the fungus is, and then just lie there until it decomposes. The fungus thingy then uses the decomposing carcass to fuel its growth. Once two or three carcasses pile up, the Fungus has enough food to allow it to grow fully. The "eyes" are so that they can stay away from the natural habitats of the Mushrooms.

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No matter how sensitive your eyes are, in caves, where no sunlight reaches, you can't see at all. All those deep caves should be mostly devoid of life. Echolocation would work, eyes won't. You must have a light source, or you have animals like olms that stay completely motionless for years to conserve energy. 

There are certain areas that have developed life (independently from each other, or at least having branched off evolutionarily a long time ago), but the caves, especially the higher ones, are indeed devoid of life except for the Dwellers, who only roam those areas.

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But I like it!  

I'll keep it just for you then, but it sounds too much like moonshine for my tastes.

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That's fun but dangerous as you can accidentally set your house aflame.

Precisely.

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No I mean end-positive. But can be called end-neutral, depending on the angle you're looking at. The same amount of investiture exists in a closed system so it can be end-neutral. But it worries me that metal isn't used up - you have a perpetuum mobile.

That's just how I interpret Invention's Intent, I like that it's a little dangerous.

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That's weird. Why? A cube twice as big would still require 2 times more energy to heat up to 70 *C: Q = m•C•ΔT

Oh that's why. Ok I see it now.

The figures aren't exact, but I want it to scale quickly, so that there's a steep price for the more impressive Inventions. It also means that while you can still get away with big Inventions on Nirah and Verdas (there really should be a collective name for them) due to how easy energy is to come by, you're not going to be able to use Inventions even near that scale elsewhere, which keeps it from becoming overpowered in the face of other planets.

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Nothing on Whimsy and mass. My mind used up today's allocation of invention.

Fair, I run out of ideas quickly too

Edit: Update on the Whimsy one, I've consolidated my ideas into a coherent thread, and all I need to do now is post it. That'll probably have to wait till tomorrow though, cuz it's late at night for me. Should I work on a Valor Magic system next, or go back to Hybrids? Leave any Hybrid suggestions if you have them, I'll see what I can do.

Edited July 19, 2023 by Underwater_Worldhopper

[alder24]

10 hours ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

Magic, the ultimate answer. But I'm tempted to leave it as is and then have the Nirans and Verdasans deal with a Bi-planetary crisis

But your triple star system which I was talking about in that section was about Seosea  not Niran and Verdas - binary planets are fine, no crisis incoming for them.

10 hours ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

Suppose they still count as Planets then, if small ones. I liked the idea of just two tiny moons orbiting each other, but my handle on physics is shaky at best, so I'm not gonna mess with it because two small planets work just as well.

As long as they aren't in orbit around a bigger planet, they're planets, not moons.

10 hours ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

I went back and checked, I indeed did not. I put so much thought and effort into this one, I drew out spiderwebs of spiderwebs to link all the random ideas I had together into a single magic system and planet. Some things, like Chromium and that particular tidbit slipped through the cracks.

You've made so much of it that some things had to be missed.

10 hours ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

I wanted it to be more the animals than the bacteria themselves, but it achieves the same general effect, so I'll take it.

Everything can be glowing, you would still be able to see some very surface dwelling fishes from the land, so it's fine.

10 hours ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

The idea I had was to have some sections of the deeper caves just be entirely flooded, with tons of hydrothermal vents made specifically by Invention to allow for life to grow there. This would solve both the heat problem and allow for life to exist down there without any specific light sources

Oh yes, that would be good. Underwater hydrothermal vents would provide a base for your food chain, as cave water life would thrive, and cave surface animals can feed on those in water, and they can be food for others deeper in caves.

10 hours ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

though some of the caves I had devised had giant mushroom-like fungi and plants that glowed brightly.

I didn't know those things already exist:

Spoiler

 

10 hours ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

It was part of why the Dwellers have eyes (I call them eyes, but they aren't really. It's more like photo-sensitive sensory organs that can tell when luminosity is increasing like we detect temperature. Not as anything visual, but an innate feeling).

Ooooh, those kinds of eyes. Yeah, that makes so much more sense. But if you have a light source, you can have normal eyes now, even if with bad eyesight.

10 hours ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

As part of their life cycle, growing fungi release spores that carry on the wind and infect Dwellers. Once a spore gets inside, the unique interaction between the spore's specialized structure and the inside of the Dweller's body allows the spore to access the Spiritual Realm and use Investiture to grow enough to take over the body of the Dweller in a matter of minutes, kind of like what Cordyceps does.

Why did I google it...

Cool and terrifying idea. Very detailed world. I'm in awe.

10 hours ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

I'll keep it just for you then, but it sounds too much like moonshine for my tastes.

That's why it sounds so familiar!

10 hours ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

The figures aren't exact, but I want it to scale quickly, so that there's a steep price for the more impressive Inventions. It also means that while you can still get away with big Inventions on Nirah and Verdas (there really should be a collective name for them) due to how easy energy is to come by, you're not going to be able to use Inventions even near that scale elsewhere, which keeps it from becoming overpowered in the face of other planets.

Yeah, that makes sense. Good limitation. But - make a Malwish medallion for Lightbearers, a huge tank of Seashine and it will generate heat for a huge Invention. I don't think you can make it with just Invention, but once you get F-brass medallion (or heat fabrial), use Iron-invention to attract investiture that will fuel medallion, that will generate heat for inventions. Use corruption to turn investiture into the right type and, well you can do anything with it. I see now what you did! 

10 hours ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

Should I work on a Valor Magic system next, or go back to Hybrids? Leave any Hybrid suggestions if you have them, I'll see what I can do.

Right, the topic was about hybrid Shards names.

I'm waiting to read and have fun nitpicking discussion about Whimsy. About Valor, you've inspired me with your binary system. Instead of sleeping, I was thinking about a world for a Shard to inhabit (the world later made me think it fit to Valor, but one of my main ideas while developing this world was that a Shard inhabited this world, but later abandoned it, leaving their investiture which they invested into that system behind). And while the planet is somewhat detailed, the magic is basic at best.

[Underwater_Worldhopper he/him]

Invention:

Spoiler

 

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

But your triple star system which I was talking about in that section was about Seosea  not Niran and Verdas - binary planets are fine, no crisis incoming for them.

Right, right, that's what I meant, Nirah and Verdas were just on my mind. But the same applies to Seosea, all the inhabited parts of it have Perpendicularities, so they can pull an Iriali or Ashynites and evacuate the planet if and when something destructive happens.

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

As long as they aren't in orbit around a bigger planet, they're planets, not moons.

Yeah, I'm not just not good at astronomy  Very helpful of you for correcting me though!

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

Oh yes, that would be good. Underwater hydrothermal vents would provide a base for your food chain, as cave water life would thrive, and cave surface animals can feed on those in water, and they can be food for others deeper in caves.

Exactly  I'm just happy that I'm better at biology and ecology than I am at astronomy  

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

I didn't know those things already exist:

  Hide contents

Yeah, I tend to forget too, but glowing mushrooms are pretty common in pop culture, which remind me every so often.

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

Ooooh, those kinds of eyes. Yeah, that makes so much more sense. But if you have a light source, you can have normal eyes now, even if with bad eyesight.

I considered that, but they're mostly for running away from light, so sight wouldn't be put to much use.

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

Why did I google it...

Cool and terrifying idea. Very detailed world. I'm in awe.

I considered making it a sort of parasitic bond, where the spores enter the body and Connect with the Dweller, using it to control them the way a Soother/Rioter controls a Hemalurgic Construct, but I ended up choosing the more biological option, as I like that there's a real-life counterpart that works just as well.

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

Yeah, that makes sense. Good limitation. But - make a Malwish medallion for Lightbearers, a huge tank of Seashine and it will generate heat for a huge Invention. I don't think you can make it with just Invention, but once you get F-brass medallion (or heat fabrial), use Iron-invention to attract investiture that will fuel medallion, that will generate heat for inventions. Use corruption to turn investiture into the right type and, well you can do anything with it. I see now what you did! 

 I'm proud of how many different mechanical uses of it I came up with. I'm honestly taken aback by how quickly you figured that one out, bravo.

 

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

Right, the topic was about hybrid Shards names.

I'm waiting to read and have fun nitpicking discussion about Whimsy. About Valor, you've inspired me with your binary system. Instead of sleeping, I was thinking about a world for a Shard to inhabit (the world later made me think it fit to Valor, but one of my main ideas while developing this world was that a Shard inhabited this world, but later abandoned it, leaving their investiture which they invested into that system behind). And while the planet is somewhat detailed, the magic is basic at best.

I'm tacking Whimsy onto this post, but that sounds like an amazing idea. I'd love to hear more about it, if you're willing. But seriously, why do the best ideas only come late at night? I spent all day racking my head trying to figure out how to incorporate the magic system I had in mind with no result, and then come 2 am everything just clicked while I wasn't even thinking about it.

Anyway, (finally) Whimsy:

Spoiler

Astronomy:

Spoiler

Melech-Tejal-Nardovino is a planet in the Iocasta-Septimia-Aquino System. It is 1.3 the Cosmere Standard in terms of size, but curiously has substantially lower gravity than the Cosmere Standard, alongside a very dense atmosphere. It is surrounded by an Invested ring system, and has a single small (yet incredibly Invested) moon, called Hyati-Croce-Sendoa. It is one of 5 planets in the Iocasta-Septimius-Aquino System, which orbit a large Star called Bhavana-Livia-Turati, which radiates Investiture due to the Invested being that resides there. Though it is no more Invested than any other Shardworld with a single Shard in residence, it oftentimes appears so due to the nature of the local Shard. All the Investiture in this system is Kinetic, leading to a myriad of unique phenomena. Indeed, this planet is one that fascinates us at Silverlight, made even more alluring due to its dangerous nature to outsiders.

Ecology and Geography:

Spoiler

Melech-Tejal-Nardovino is a curious planet. It has an incredibly dense atmosphere, as well as low gravity, which results in many of the local species taking to the air. These range from plants not unlike the aquatic waterlilies found on Scadrial, glutted on Investiture from Bhavana-Livia-Turati, that can float just above the ground and only descend with the weight of rainfall to draw nutrients from the ground, to gargantuan herbivorous megafauna that can soar tens of feet in the air.

Due to the overabundance of Investiture, many plants, microorganisms, and small animals have gained rudimentary Invested powers, most of which focus on controlling aspects of an entity's own nature, with many different varieties independently evolving flight or levitation. This is most commonly achieved through modulation of an entity's weight, oftentimes paired with large, wing-like appendages, greater-than-normal surface areas, and other adaptations to take advantage of Melech-Tejal-Nardovino's atmosphere and gravity conditions.

Large animals, like the Zarconia, a species of vaguely avian animals that grow to 15 feet in length and have a wingspan of 24 feet, feast on specific plants or animals that allow for them to weigh a fraction of what their size implies, allowing them to take to the skies. Not all plants and animals have this effect on their consumers, and it is in fact only a specific genus of plants (and some of their primary consumers who can gain and transfer this effect) that affect a being's weight. Some examples of others are plants that grant the ability to sense thoughts, others to hide from them, seeing colors of a wider range than what one normally can, and one rare instance of a specific insect that, when eaten, for a single prolonged moment aligns your Physical Aspect with your Spiritual Aspect, healing any and all injuries and/or perceived flaws.

Another notable feature of the Melechian ecology is the native humans (if they can be called that). They are some of the few races of humans crafted directly by a Shard and are so far deviated from regular humans that I hesitate to call them as such. The Melechians easily grow up to heights of 8 feet, and have hair and eyes that can be of literally any color under the sun. The color of their hair and eyes always match, and they appear to be randomly decided upon at birth, irrespective of genetics. Their pupils are a striking diamond shape. Most fascinating and recognizable of all, however, are the massive wings that sprout from their backs. With an average wingspan twice as wide as their Height, they are feathery, and the plumage matches the color of their hair and eyes. This biological impossibility, which should not allow flight, somehow works in the unique environment of M-T-N. The diet of these humans revolves largely around an easy-to-cultivate, flavourful, and nutritious family of crops, which coincidentally decrease a consumer's weight to fractional amounts. This, along with the low gravity and thick atmosphere mentioned earlier, allows for these strange yet majestic creatures to be able to fly. If they were to stop eating the weight-affecting plants, they would return to their true weight, making them incapable of flight. Off-world, Melechians cannot fly, though they may be able to should they acquire Fabrials like F-Iron Medallions in an environment with a suitably dense atmosphere.

Geographically, M-T-N is not a particularly interesting planet. It is covered largely in oceans, and there are 4 continents spread across its surface, though two are nearly devoid of life.

Linguistics:

Spoiler

Though the Linguistics of a planet are not typically mentioned in essays such as this, I feel that I should include a short section here on the nuances of Melechian names. The natives perceive everything to belong to a heavenly order and name it as such. Much like how symmetrical names are considered holy in certain parts of Roshar, compound names are considered divine on Melech-Tejal-Narovino:

• The highest being, Their name for the local Shard, is the most holy, containing 5 sections, the only one to do so. Whimsy is referred to as Diodotos-Liba-Pavone-Moyra-Vera
• One step below that, at 4 sections, are the minor gods that the natives worship. For example, Zoric-Idun-Pilles-Anka
• Below that, 3 section names are reserved for astronomical bodies, such as Melech-Tejal-Nardovino.
• 2 section names are used by the humans, the favored creations, such as Zlata-Salara.
• Single-section names are used for animals or plants, such as Zarconia
• Inanimate objects are given short, small names, often with little nuance.

Due to the incredibly long names being inconvenient to read and write, scholars often shorten them to the first section, or sometimes to the initials.

Investiture in the Iocasta-Septimia-Aquino System:

Spoiler

Melech-Tejal-Nardovino is an utterly alien planet among the Cosmere, and for a few reasons, all of which tie back to one entity: Whimsy.

Whimsy's Intent is the first offender. Whimsy's Intent, as determined by its current Vessel, appears to be spontaneous, irrational, and meaningless change, in direct and stark contest with logic, reasoning, and calculated decisions. The Vessel was warped by its Intent over time, and this lead it to make several unorthodox and unpredictable choices. Though it created M-T-N and its moon and rings, Whimsy chose to Invest primarily within Hyati-Croce-Sendoa, the moon, rather than the planet itself. Beyond this, the Vessel then created several Avatars, divesting them from the Shard alongside vast chunks of the Shard's power. This was an extremely unconventional decision, as many Shards would not be willing to part so much Investiture from themselves as to considerably weaken them. Additionally, where Autonomy, the only other Shard known to have created Avatars, created them to expand her influence within the Cosmere, all of Whimsy's Avatar remained within the system, Investing themselves within specific parts of the planet. The natives worship these Avatars as distinct deities in their religion, each ruling over a specific domain. Though the number of Whimsy's Avatars is uncertain, We the scholars of Silverlight are only aware of four:

• Zoric-Idun-Pilles-Anka (Shortened to Zoric), Invested in B-L-T (the star)
• Helle-Melena-Prifti-Rios (Shortened to Helle), Invested in the core of M-T-N
• Svboda-Jain-Andel-Kainan (Shortened to Svboda), Invested in the ring system
• Deo-Cirina-Ugo-Sprita (Shortened to Deo), Invested, so far as we can tell, in the planet's magnetic field itself. How or why this is possible is subject to furious academic debate, and few answers are forthcoming.

Whimsy's Investiture is, by nature, always kinetic. It simply does not exist (and cannot be made to exist) in a static form. Just as Endowment's Investiture is uniquely unbound by Connection, Whimsy's Investiture is always Kinetic. This means that Whimsy, Zoric, Helle, Svboda, Deo, and however many other Avatars exist, are all constantly bombarding the planet with Investiture. Not only that, the Investiture is, in effect, always trying to accomplish something as well. Due to the lack of a sentient mind providing an Intent for the Investiture to tell it what to do, it reverts back to its core Intent: Whimsy. This means that the Investiture almost acts as radioactivity, seeping into every single living creature on the planet. Where Cultivation's ambient influence causes life to evolve more quickly, developing magic and sentience, Whimsy accelerates the number of random gene mutations within organisms.

This, when combined with the fact that Whimsy and its Avatars are always radiating Investiture towards M-T-N, means that life on M-T-N evolves rapidly, but also that life on the planet also develops diseases like cancer with frightening regularity. This is such as issue, in fact, that the natives have hunted a specific insect, one that cures all ailments when eaten, to near-extinction just to try and combat the staggering number of deaths.

As if that wasn't enough, the amount of Investiture that suffuses a being affect a person's psyche. Just as Stormlight makes a person feel energetic, Voidlight enhances emotions, and Breaths instill an appreciation for beauty, Whimsical Investiture makes one blissfully careless. The amount of Whimsical Investiture bouncing around makes the Melechian people mellow and fun-loving, to a dangerous degree. It is unsafe for off-worlders, as though the natives have lived with the Investiture long enough to become somewhat immune to the effect, off-worlders are often consumed by it, losing track of their goals and becoming lost in thought and experience, requiring rescuing from the planet by agents in Aluminum mesh suits designed to protect them.

Despite all this, the level of Investiture also has some benefits. The sheer amount of Investiture just flying around everywhere causes all the natives to intrinsically have the second Heightening, making the entire population capable of perfect pitch.

Magic system:

Spoiler

The magic system of Melech-Tejal-Nardovino is called Songfettering, and it is predictably music-based. A Melechian can form a temporary bond with the ambient Investiture in the area by playing Whimsy's Pure Tone, drawing the Investiture close around themselves. Once the bond is established, the Investiture can be controlled through clear mental images accompanied by playing music by modulating the Pure Tone of Whimsy. The music, together with the Pure Tone, Mental Image, and Intent, acts like a Command to the Investiture. It can be made to imbue itself into an object, be it stone, water or even the air itself, then controlled via more musical Commands. Most Melechians prefer violins and other similar stringed instruments, flutes, and some even use tuning forks. The more musically gifted or talented sometimes simply use their voice.

Songfettering can be performed using other Investitures, but the Pure tone would need to be swapped to allow for the proper control. 

 

And there we have it, Whimsy's magic system. Thoughts?

[alder24]

12 hours ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

but that sounds like an amazing idea. I'd love to hear more about it, if you're willing.

Maybe, but I'm stuck on magic. I'm not as good with creating a magic system as I’m with using some existing magic. But the world keeps growing, I'm coming up with new ideas and I'm adding them to this world. I've even made a basic map for it! But now I know how hard it is to make a cool world that is realistic and checks out with physics. Touche. I had to go with the rule of cool, but I'm nitpicking myself now  

After reading your Whimsy world - yeah, I can't do a world so detailed and amazing as yours.

12 hours ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

But seriously, why do the best ideas only come late at night?

Brain is mean, and wants us to suffer sleepless nights.

 

12 hours ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

It is 1.3 the Cosmere Standard in terms of size, but curiously has substantially lower gravity than the Cosmere Standard

I hope magic is the answer to unrealistically low density  

12 hours ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

alongside a very dense atmosphere

I was literally thinking of doing it as well to my world  But that was a problem too far for it.

12 hours ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

which orbit a large Star called Bhavana-Livia-Turati,

The problem with large stars is that they are often the most luminous star types existing, they live shortly and are very violent. But if Taldain can exist being tidally locked with one of the most luminous types of star, this planet, which the name I can't pronounce, will be fine.

13 hours ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

And there we have it, Whimsy's magic system. Thoughts?

This, this is simply art. Like all of this is so great, so detailed, that I can't stop thinking this already IS in Cosmere as a canon. It fits so well. The life, the humanoid species, the investiture and Whimsy is so well-done and so fascinating. And the Songfettering sounds great too with the simplicity being just the best part of it. You even made a naming convention which for me is my arch-nemesis. 

What can be achieved with Songfettering? Are you attracting the specific kinetic investiture fitting your intent or all investiture which changes its "kinetic intent" to fit your intent and command? If the investiture got put in an object, can you Soulcast it? Change its form from solid stone into liquid? Change its cohesion or tension?

[Underwater_Worldhopper he/him]

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

Maybe, but I'm stuck on magic. I'm not as good with creating a magic system as I’m with using some existing magic. But the world keeps growing, I'm coming up with new ideas and I'm adding them to this world. I've even made a basic map for it! But now I know how hard it is to make a cool world that is realistic and checks out with physics. Touche. I had to go with the rule of cool, but I'm nitpicking myself now

Sounds pretty cool! Hope to read it soon  If you need help with the magic, I'm always here to help  I immediately fell in love with the idea of A Shard having Invested in a planet and then left, leaving Investiture behind. It's such an obviously amazing setting that I'm mad I didn't think about it. It would make the perfect setting for a horror magic system, like Threnody or

Spoiler

SP3

 

Quote

Brain is mean, and wants us to suffer sleepless nights.

For. Real.

Quote

I hope magic is the answer to unrealistically low density

Whimsy made it himself, so that's pretty much it. Magic do how magic do ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. I did some research into whether a larger planet could have lower gravity but a thicker atmosphere, and it was surprisingly feasible. The only problem was density, which I'm not entirely sure about, so I'm gonna chalk it up to how Whimsy made the planet. Maybe it just has a lot of Lithium instead of the denser elements.

Quote

This, this is simply art. Like all of this is so great, so detailed, that I can't stop thinking this already IS in Cosmere as a canon. It fits so well. The life, the humanoid species, the investiture and Whimsy is so well-done and so fascinating. And the Songfettering sounds great too with the simplicity being just the best part of it. You even made a naming convention which for me is my arch-nemesis. 

Quote

What can be achieved with Songfettering? Are you attracting the specific kinetic investiture fitting your intent or all investiture which changes its "kinetic intent" to fit your intent and command? If the investiture got put in an object, can you Soulcast it? Change its form from solid stone into liquid? Change its cohesion or tension?

It attracts all Investiture and provides it with an Intent. You can indeed change its cohesion and tension, as well as its state of matter. You can't turn it from one material to another though. But speaking of Soulcasting, something I forgot to mention in the original post was that things on this planet, contrary to the general rule of "Invested things are harder to Soulcast", Invested things on M-T-N are actually easier to Soulcast, because the Investiture already wants to affect change, it actually ends up helping the Soulcasting process.

One other thing I forgot to mention was that clouds on Melech are actually iridescent because of the way the Investiture streaming off the Sun, moon, and rings scatters through the clouds. It's based on an actual phenomenon:

 

Anyway, what Shard should I do next?

Edited July 22, 2023 by Underwater_Worldhopper

[alder24]

15 minutes ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

I immediately fell in love with the idea of A Shard having Invested in a planet and then left, leaving Investiture behind. It's such an obviously amazing setting that I'm mad I didn't think about it. It would make the perfect setting for a horror magic system, like Threnody or

Yes, kind of. It's a dangerous place, and I want magic to be not so friendly. But I think I'm focusing too much on natural dangers of this place, rather than invested dangers - which is my nature, looking at planets and saying  "that's unrealistic" so I want to make it reasonably realistic far too much.

2 minutes ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

Whimsy made it himself, so that's pretty much it. Magic do how magic do ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. I did some research into whether a larger planet could have lower gravity but a thicker atmosphere, and it was surprisingly feasible. The only problem was density, which I'm not entirely sure about, so I'm gonna chalk it up to how Whimsy made the planet. Maybe it just has a lot of Lithium instead of the denser elements.

You can make a planet with lower density than Earth's, which is 5.5 g/cm3, like Mars which is 4 g/cm3, or the Moon which is 3.3 g/cm3, but below 3 g/cm3 you have icy planets/moons, around 1 or less than 1 g/cm3 you have gas giants. So you can't just make as low gravity as you want, like a planet made out of Lithium rather than iron would likely work when it was being created as lithium would float toward the surface or something. At least in real life. But with the thickness of the atmosphere you can go wild - Saturn's moon Titan has a denser atmosphere, despite lower gravity. And Venus has so much thicker atmosphere despite the same gravity as on Earth. But all of this doesn't matter when Shards make their own planets.

12 minutes ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

contrary to the general rule of "Invested things are harder to Soulcast", Invested things on M-T-N are actually easier to Soulcast, because the Investiture already wants to affect change, it actually ends up helping the Soulcasting process.

Make sense, as you said the investiture can't exist in static form, only kinetic, so this might help if it wants to have intent. 

13 minutes ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

One other thing I forgot to mention was that clouds on Melech are actually iridescent because of the way the Investiture streaming off the Sun, moon, and rings scatters through the clouds. It's based on an actual phenomenon:

Beautiful.

[Underwater_Worldhopper he/him]

9 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Yes, kind of. It's a dangerous place, and I want magic to be not so friendly. But I think I'm focusing too much on natural dangers of this place, rather than invested dangers - which is my nature, looking at planets and saying  "that's unrealistic" so I want to make it reasonably realistic far too much.

That works too, it makes for more detailed storytelling. I'm really looking forward to this one.

[Firesong she/her]

I had a dream on what Valor's planet would be like, it isn't well fleshed out, but I thought I would bring it up here. 

The entire planet is shrouded in darkness (not like Komashi exactly, a more natural darkness which can be dispelled with light) that cannot be seen through. The entire planet is also covered in this emotional manipulation field that greatly intensifies any feelings of fear, paranoia, and cowardice. That if you are not extremely brave, you would be absolutely crippled in terror.

The only light comes from glowing crimson splinters/spren which fly through the dark, and are vaguely spherical. They are aggressive and can kill you. You can see a line of Investiture being traced as they float through the air, which slowly fade over time. The light given off from the path is also far less than the light from the spren itself. 

When lit up, the ground is grey and black, and covered in cracks and cliff faces and unique ecology of these like, leafless tree-like plants. (If you have played Tears of the Kingdom, think the Depths in that game, but not exactly, just similar)

While the atmosphere isn't suffocating, it is relatively stiff and makes breathing a bit hard. 

The planet was given a name in my dream, but I forgot what the name was. Also, iirc, it was more like Threnody in that it was all from a past presence rather than a current presence.  

The was also a second planet in the system, I don't know anything about it. But I did see a name for it, I also forgot that name. 

That is all I can remember from the dream. 

Edited July 22, 2023 by Firesong

[Underwater_Worldhopper he/him]

1 hour ago, Firesong said:

I had a dream on what Valor's planet would be like, it isn't well fleshed out, but I thought I would bring it up here. 

The entire planet is shrouded in darkness (not like Komashi exactly, a more natural darkness which can be dispelled with light) that cannot be seen through. The entire planet is also covered in this emotional manipulation field that greatly intensifies any feelings of fear, paranoia, and cowardice. That if you are not extremely brave, you would be absolutely crippled in terror.

The only light comes from glowing crimson splinters/spren which fly through the dark, and are vaguely spherical. They are aggressive and can kill you. You can see a line of Investiture being traced as they float through the air, which slowly fade over time. The light given off from the path is also far less than the light from the spren itself. 

When lit up, the ground is grey and black, and covered in cracks and cliff faces and unique ecology of these like, leafless tree-like plants. (If you have played Breath of the Wild, think the Depths in that game, but not exactly, just similar)

While the atmosphere isn't suffocating, it is relatively stiff and makes breathing a bit hard. 

The planet was given a name in my dream, but I forgot what the name was. Also, iirc, it was more like Threnody in that it was all from a past presence rather than a current presence.  

The was also a second planet in the system, I don't know anything about it. But I did see a name for it, I also forgot that name. 

That is all I can remember from the dream. 

That's an awesome dream. I love the idea of evil Crimson Splinters that can and will physically harm you. I'd like to see if I can develop this idea, if you'll allow it. Not sure how similar it will end up being to whatever @alder24 is cooking up, but this combined with the idea of a Shard leaving a planet behind is really inspiring me.

[Firesong she/her]

Just now, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

That's an awesome dream. I love the idea of evil Crimson Splinters that can and will physically harm you. I'd like to see if I can develop this idea, if you'll allow it. Not sure how similar it will end up being to whatever @alder24 is cooking up, but this combined with the idea of a Shard leaving a planet behind is really inspiring me.

Sure, go on ahead. I don't mind. 

[alder24]

1 hour ago, Firesong said:

I had a dream on what Valor's planet would be like, it isn't well fleshed out, but I thought I would bring it up here. 

I wish to have dreams like this  

7 minutes ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

splinters/spren [...] They are aggressive and can kill you.

7 minutes ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

leafless tree-like plants

Great minds think alike. I have those  

@Underwater_Worldhopper I literally need to think of just 2 more abilities for the magic system and it will be finally done. If I can't figure it out, I leave it blank. 5 full pages of text with 1.5 pages of self-nitpicking... 

[Underwater_Worldhopper he/him]

1 minute ago, alder24 said:

I wish to have dreams like this  

Great minds think alike. I have those  

@Underwater_Worldhopper I literally need to think of just 2 more abilities for the magic system and it will be finally done. If I can't figure it out, I leave it blank. 5 full pages of text with 1.5 pages of self-nitpicking... 

Oh my GOD am I excited for whatever you're cooking up. We really should engage more of the Sharders in creative writing, I feel like with so much theory crafting and knowledge some of the people on here have, we could end up with some seriously cool ideas. Can't wait! I'll see what I can make in the meanwhile, but I'll wait till you post yours so it doesn't take away anything from yours. Probably won't be able to come up with anything worth comparing to 6.5 pages' worth of Alder genius anyway in a day or two anyway, so we'll see. Looking forward to reading it whenever you end up posting it!!!!!

[alder24]

On 23.07.2023 at 0:52 AM, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

Oh my GOD am I excited for whatever you're cooking up. We really should engage more of the Sharders in creative writing, I feel like with so much theory crafting and knowledge some of the people on here have, we could end up with some seriously cool ideas. Can't wait! I'll see what I can make in the meanwhile, but I'll wait till you post yours so it doesn't take away anything from yours. Probably won't be able to come up with anything worth comparing to 6.5 pages' worth of Alder genius anyway in a day or two anyway, so we'll see. Looking forward to reading it whenever you end up posting it!!!!!

Oh my, this pressure of expectations is killing me. Do not exaggerate with this genius, genius and I don't get along.

But it is done. Behold, planet Vantlar and its moon Ortagon, a system that Valor once inhabited:

Spoiler

General description:

Spoiler

The planet of Vantlar is orbiting in a habitable zone of K-type orange dwarf star (a type of star which is smaller and cooler than that of Cosmere Standard), named locally Adokriss. Vantlar has a mass and size of 1 Cosmere Standard. The planet has an ongoing cataclysm - its only moon, once named Ortagon, got too close to Vantlar and was ripped apart by tidal forces. Most of the material that used to be the moon is now forming gorgeous rocky rings around the host planet, with a few big chunks of Ortagon, being mostly its active hot core, still remaining as whole pieces orbiting Vantlar. The system has also a rocky planet orbiting close to the star, named Kardos, and 3 gas giants, one being on an extremely elliptical orbit. 

The ongoing catastrophe on Vantlar is a process mostly shrouded in mystery. It started when the Shard that once inhabited this system left it, leaving behind their investiture. This Shard was Valor and they didn’t inhabit Vantlar but Ortagon, which back then was habitable and settled by humans and Valor themself (other than that we don’t know anything more about Ortagon). Valor leaving the system doomed both Vantlar and Ortagon. However it’s unknown if Valor’s departure is the cause of destruction of Orgaton or if it just coincided in time. We also don’t know why Valor left the system, why they left their investiture behind instead of ripping it off the system to take it with them. My colleagues from Silverlight proposed that it was due to Vantlar system neighboring Threnody system, where Odium fought Ambition, which happened almost at the same time as Valor leaving, and thus Valor run away in fear. However I find it difficult to accept that a Shard named Valor would act like a coward. 

Geography: 

Spoiler

There are many reasons why Vantlar is a very dangerous place. Obviously, the shattered moon is the primary reason. The material forming rocky rings is falling on the surface of the planet, creating a mountain range along its equator. Not only rocks are falling on the planet but whatever investiture was left by Valor on Ortagon, this includes pieces of Valor’s god metal, Valorium, but also Valor’s Splinters (known as Spirits). The rings themself are a mesmerizing view, especially at night with Ortagon’s hot pieces of its core still glowing brightly in the sky, illuminating the entire ring system

The mountain range, named the Moonfall Ridge, is hot and inhospitable. This region is covered in a permanent shadow because of the low axial tilt of the planet combined with its rocky ring blocking sunlight almost entirely. However, Ortagon's core remains are large enough to shine above and below the ring system, partially returning light to this dark place in their fast orbit. The Moonfall Ridge varies in height. Where debris fell on landmass it piled up creating formidable peaks, but as some fell into oceans and seas of Vantlar, it created what is known as Dragon’s Teeth, Dragon’s Spine and Dragon’s Tail - a series of mountains whose only peaks are looking over the sea level. They create a series of straits which connect the northern and southern hemisphere together. While they are navigable by ships, those passages are highly dangerous, not only because waters in those regions are very hot, evaporating into a dense fog, but also because of sharp mountain peaks and rocky formations which hide just beneath the surface of the water, ready to tear any ship in half. Despite the danger, those places provide the easiest access to Valorium, therefore there are always people ready to risk their life in search of this invaluable metal. What’s intriguing, local legends talk about a real dragon living among those straits, some even claiming to witness his flight. However, after asking several others known to me dragons, I couldn't identify who it could be. I think this is just a local myth, nothing more, but I’m ready to be proven wrong.

Unfortunately the Moonfall Ridge is also the only place on Vantlar where perpendicularity spontaneously forms - this is due to the falling Valorium, which sometimes concentrates densely enough to form a temporary perpendicularity. Rest of the planet is covered mostly by inhospitable wastelands, cracked open by volcanos spilling magma, which covers the continent's worth of land, and hot or even boiling oceans, with small habitable enclaves located close to its poles. That's where its people live. To my knowledge this planet, while fully habitable, was devoid of intelligent life when Valor was still present in the system, where and when did humans come from is unknown.

Because of Vantlar’s low axial tilt, only a few degrees of tilt, there are almost no polar circles, nor is there polar day and night on Vantlar. This means that polar regions experience a regular day and night cycle, however the sun never rises high in the sky. This creates interesting regions, some valleys or lakes hidden behind hills or mountains are covered in permanent shadow with temperature dropping rapidly in those places. Those are the only regions on the planet where snow and ice can be found. Seasons are also absent on this planet.  While the rings of Vantlar are mostly not visible from polar regions, beautiful aurora borealis compensate for this. 

Map of the northern hemisphere: 

Spoiler

 

Ecology and population:

Spoiler

The Vantlarian vegetation is living in harsh conditions. Despite warm water and air, heavy and long lasting rain periods present on poles, they lack sufficient sunlight to grow and provide food for people. They evolved to use investiture as a substitute for sunlight which allowed them to densely cover poles with forests, jungles or meadows. There are even plants growing in the Moonfall Ridge, they grow very fast, with no leaves, climbing and attaching to hot rocks, sucking in minerals from them. They grow so much that a single plant can sometimes cover the entire mountainside. Their life is focused on a single thing - spreading their seeds, because of constant bombardment from the sky they are likely to die from nearby impacts in weeks or months to come. 

Animal life is mostly found in the form of insects, amphibians and reptiles of various sizes. There are also a few flightless large bird species. Oceans are timing with a variety of marine life, but only near poles, because waters closer to equator are so hot that only a handful of species are adapted to survive in those conditions. The only mammalian species found on Vantlar are domesticated animals possibly brought by humans.

The people of Vantlar are living around both poles, where conditions are mild enough for life to exist (mild compared to the rest of the planet, almost tropical if you compare it to places like Nalthis or Scadrial). They are technologically a bit more advanced than elsewhere in Cosmere, having access to gunpowder, sophisticated sailing techniques or printing press. With this they were able to move out of the safety of poles and create small settlements, trading posts or safe harbors closer to the equator, establishing contact and trading rounds between both polar regions through the Moonfall Ridge. Vantlarian are divided into numerous small nations and kingdoms which are in constant conflict and rivalry over land and resources, with wars erupting almost as often as volcanoes located closer to the equator. 

The ring system is believed by one religion to be heavens or afterlife, a place where souls go after death. Those unworthy of heaven are thrown back on the planet as vengeful Spirits that can achieve redemption only by serving people. Others however believe that those are demons, sent by a god who abandoned them, and wanted to punish them for their ancestors' crimes. They won’t stop until everyone is dead. Fearless who bonded with them are banished from their society or killed on the spot, as they are treated as traitors of mankind and servants of demons. Another religion believes that hot glowing pieces of the moon's core are the eyes of their gods, watching them in their times of trial. This religion values valor and bravery, believing that serving their gods will bring their people closer to salvation. To serve, one must bond with a Spirit by proving themself worthy. Spirits were sent by their gods to test their people’s faith and determination. The rings are believed to be a road to heavens and gods, which now is closed to humans, but will be opened once they pass the divine test. 

Investiture: 

Spoiler

Valor’s investiture can be found in the form of Splinters, Valorium or invisible gaseous investiture present in the atmosphere. Splinters are boringly named Spirits by Vantlarian. They are always around the equator and can’t leave on their own (I theorize this is because of their strong Connection to Ortagon, thus they have to remain in close proximity to pieces of their former home). They aren’t sapient like some Splinters form Sel or Roshar, they are more like Lesser Spren form Roshar but far less numerous. Unlike them, they are highly dangerous in the Physical Realm, able to partially manifest their physical body. They will always attack anyone invading their territory. However surprisingly they pose no threat in CR as they barely exist there similar to Windspren on Roshar. They seem to be fully blind to affairs happening in CR, making a journey to this planet a little less dangerous. 

Because Spirits are invested Splinters of Valor, it’s impossible to defend against their attack without any invested weapon. That’s why Valorium is so valuable on Vantlar. Native people use it to create weapons to fight Spirit. While they can cut and hurt Spirits, they act like regular weapons in contact with living flesh, unlike the famous Shardblades from Roshar. This god metal also has another interesting property - Valorium absorbs heat and converts itself into Valor’s gaseous investiture which slightly invests the atmosphere. This process bypasses known laws regarding heating up physical matter because metal is always cold to the touch but still reduces in size when exposed to heat, looking like it’s slowly evaporating. Because of that, objects made out of Valorium shrink constantly. Valorium is unforgeable, but very malleable. Since it always absorbs heat, heating it up in forges or trying to melt it to create weapons in a regular way is an impossible task, only making Valorium evaporate faster. However its shape can be easily changed by gentle hammer work. It’s so malleable that one can chew it like bubble gum. Keeping it in ice or snow reduces the rate of evaporation significantly and prevents ice and snow from melting in warmer temperatures.

Because of this unique property of Valorium, it allows Vantlarians to create ships that can sail on hot seas, or settle close to lava covered lands. However, due to Valorium slowly evaporating, Vantlarians have to remade their weapons, tools and parts of their ships out of new metal every once in a while. I suspect Valorium plays an important role in making this planet habitable at all. My calculations show that this planet shouldn’t be able to support life at all. The violent destruction of Ortagon threw its pieces onto the surface of Vantlar, smashing into it like mountain-sized asteroids, quickly creating what now is known as the Moonfall Ridge. This event lasted for hundreds of years, heating up the atmosphere, melting the surface of Vantlar, and creating volcanic regions that are still spewing lava till this day. Later it stabilized a bit, which allowed the planet to cool down. While this is still an ongoing process, nowadays much smaller debris is falling less frequently on the equator. But this, combined with massive lava flows, still heats up the surface of the planet, but on a smaller scale. However, the cooling of Vantlar happened extremely fast. I suspect Valorium absorbed heat from impact events, eruptions and from the atmosphere of Vantlar, helping to cool it down back to more habitable conditions. I’m worried will Valorium freeze the planet if its rocky ring stops falling down and magma ceases rising to the surface? Or if Valoruim runs out, will the temperature on the planet rise rapidly, destroying the last enclaves of habitability? Right now Vantlar seems to find its balance - the average temperature, while very high, hasn't changed for the last 1000 years. However the remaining big pieces of Ortagon’s core will eventually fall down on Vantlar’s surface, so either way this planet and its population is doomed.

Invested Art:

Spoiler

For unknown reasons sometimes a Spirit will form an invasive Nahel Bond with their prey, instead of killing them. This bond is very damaging to the receiver, as Spirit rips their prey's souls to create large cracks that can accommodate them. Those people chosen by Spirits are known as Fearless. Unfortunately for them damage done to their soul is irreversible, sometimes sufficient enough to drive that person into a madness. A Fearless can be bonded with more than one Spirit, each time the process is equally as brutal, straining their mental health and their soul even further. After bonding with the 7th Spirit, they can’t bond anymore without their soul being ripped to pieces, suffering excruciating pain and death. However people don't choose to bond, Spirits do, if Fearless with seven bonds is chosen again, there is nothing that can be done to prevent a Spirit from bonding them. Because of the demanding nature of each subsequent bond, Fearless bonded with more than 4 Spirits are very rare. 

The bond with Fearless allows Spirits to leave the Moonfall Ridge, and manifest fully in CR, disappearing from and unable to interact with PR. In exchange each Spirit grants their Fearless powers. Each new bond increases the strength of abilities granted by previous bonds and gives a new one. With each new bond their body gets more invested and more resilient to the invested attack of hostile Spirits. While they can never fully block those attacks under normal circumstances, hostile Spirits can’t penetrate as deep and as fast compared to uninvested people. Powers granted by bonds are:

1. General enhancements - with the first bond they get numerous enhancements, like increase in strength, speed, or endurance. 
2. Hardskin - the second bond turns their skin into a literal rock, which is very hard, yet without limiting their movement. It looks very similar to stone Soulcasters from Roshar. At first their whole body looks like made out of numerous thin and small rocks, having almost the same color as a normal skin, with more bonds their armor thickens, gets stronger and become more visible and reddish, making it look like they’re made out of large stones (despite their skin being made out of literal rocks, their bodies still float on water and on lava).
3. Heat resistance - the third bond increases their heat resistance. 
4. Lava Ribbon - the fourth bond gives them the ability to control lava with their will. They can form a ribbon of lava, which climbs and twists around their skin that then can be thrown at distance. Those ribbons look very similar to Sand Mastery from my homeworld. 
5. Liquefaction/solidification - the fifth bond allows them to change the state of lava. They can solidify liquid lava or liquify solid rocks into lava. Some use this ability to create beautiful art or practical structures, however this is mostly used in fighting or during wars (I’ve heard of a siege that was “won” by turning sections of walls into lava, flooding parts of the city). It also increases the number of ribbons by 1 (as each new bond does, plus increases the range at which ribbons can be manipulated by a bit)
6. Refining - Fearless can isolate specific elements from lava ribbons and extract pure substances from them. 
7. Manifestation - the last, seventh bond allows Fearless to command their Spirits. Fearless can force one of his Spirits to manifest in the Physical Realm in his natural form, and command it to act according to his will. They can keep their physical form only for a limited time.

Little is known about powers granted by 5 or more bonds because of how rare Fearless with this many bonds are. To make it even more problematic, at this point most Fearless are already insane due to high damages their soul obtained with each new bond. That’s why the knowledge of what can be done with those higher powers is very limited and exploration of new possibilities is mostly theoretical. 

What’s interesting is that those abilities and effects aren’t constantly available to Fearless. A Fearless must first please their Spirits by performing some act of bravery or valor, which allows them to subconsciously use investiture present in the atmosphere to awaken and fuel their Art. A single, valorous act allows for one day of power usage, and with each hour their powers are getting weaker. What defines a valorous act is likely a personal perception - there are Fearless who can put their hands into a fire and awaken their powers, but there are also those who will only burn themselves doing so. The requirement of a brave act, with the combination of mental damage done by bonds, isn’t helping at all. This creates people who sometimes do truly insane stuff, like throwing themself off a cliff or jumping into a lava - I ask myself, is it still bravery or just simple stupidity?

For many Fearless the requirement of bravery took a vastly more sane approach. Instead of throwing themself off cliffs, they developed a complicated dueling culture, where Fearless fight each other on specially prepared or chosen custom battle grounds, with limitations or enhancements to help Fearless feel brave and valorous for their powers to be awakened. This tradition developed in one nation, was eventually spread across both poles, now being a standard almost in every nation.

However this requirement of valor can be bypassed by using Valorium. A Fearless can fuel their arts directly with it by chewing it. A Fearless using Valorium is several times more powerful than a normal Fearless - a Fearless with 1 bond using Valorium is stronger and faster than the one with 7 bonds and  no metal. A Fearless with 2 bonds has skin that looks silvery in color, like made out of Valorium itself, impenetrable to even invested weapons or Spirits attacks. A Fearless with 4 bonds can create 7 ribbons of lava at once, with each bond giving them 7 more ribbons. With 7 bonds they can part a lava lake around them and walk on the bottom of it or command all 7 Spirits at once. Even their eyes change as they look like emitting a silvery fire. However Valorium runs out very fast, a single bead can last only for several minutes.

While Fearless can technically swim in lava because of their heat resistance and the ability to move lava around them, this is still highly dangerous. Breathing in lava or swallowing it is apparently a very painful and often deadly process for Fearless. It looks like Fearless aren't that lava-proof from the inside. Importantly, their bond with Spirits don't grant them any form of healing. 

 

 

And of course, self-nitpicking:

Spoiler

This whole idea was started with a thought of magic being activated by doing crazy stunts like jumping off a cliff or something like that.

Of course, this planet can’t exist in this state. There are several problems with it. One is the destruction of the moon itself - it can happen in real life, it’s how ring systems are created. I’m not sure how fast it is or if there would be some core remains still in one piece orbiting around - it’s a blind guess. Rule of cool then, I want glowing pieces of rock in the sky, which might either get disintegrated when getting closer, fall on the planet, or stabilize between rings and become new moons. 

 

Second problem is the timescale. The decay of a ring system happens over millions or hundreds of millions of years - it won’t throw chunks of moon into a planet making a mountain range just in a few centuries. This is a far longer process - so something caused it to happen that fast. Falling rings can form mountain ranges along the equator and I really want to have them: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equatorial_ridge_on_Iapetus

Spoiler

But digging some more after writing it all, bigger remains can be present. Rocky rings can last millions of years but they can leave big chunks of a moon intact that will fall on the surface with low-velocity impacts. It’s still too fast in my world but I wasn't that wrong (probably).©

But then if a literal mountain range fell from the sky for over a few hundreds of years, it would be like the Late Heavy Bombardment period on early Earth - hot, molten and inhospitable. Each asteroid impact would be like a dino-killing asteroid striking over and over again for hundreds of years, but with a bit smaller speeds. Cooling from that would last another millions of years. On top of that it might cause massive seismic activity - in my case I made it cause a flood basalt on a global scale - a flood basalt size of 2/3 of continental USA caused the biggest extinction event in the history of the Earth and I want half of the planet to be covered by it. And again timescale, a flood basalt lasts for millions of years. I may be wrong with the amount of heat produced by all of this, I'm not an expert. It just feels right to me.

I’ve made an impossibly heated planet. Solution for this was Valorium dealing with heat. At first I thought it just transports heat into SR and the problem is solved. But it didn’t feel right (what's happening with the energy in SR) and was too close to @Underwater_Worldhopper god metal©. I was thinking of making the orbit far larger, too far away from the habitable zone, in freezing regions, but that wouldn’t solve problems of cooling so fast. And I didn’t have a Shard that could handwave my problems away. Eventually I surrender and make the most reasonable solution, killing two birds with one stone - Valorum takes heat and transfers it into gaseous investiture along with itself. Almost the same as Invention's god metal© and I’m very angry at myself for my inability to figure out anything else. The second bird was investiture source for Fearless (as no Shard can provide it) - at first I thought of Valorium dust being present in the atmosphere but it didn’t really work out with it shrinking. @Underwater_Worldhopper sorry for using your idea. If you don't like it, I might figure something else and change it to something different.

There has to be a lot of Valorium, which is fine, because I wanted to have a lot of it, and it’s stuck in close cycle (like era 1 Atium) - it falls down on Vantlar, evaporates into gaseous investiture, it gets used by plants, maybe some animals and Fearless and gets recycled back when investiture solidifies back into Valorium somewhere in rings, which eventually will fall down too. This cycle can change over next millenia based on perception and remains of Ortagon - either its focus point will shift and it will solidify on big core pieces which are in orbit (cooling them down), or it will start solidifying on the Moonfall Ridge. One means no Valorium on Vantlar and full extinction, second one means lots of Valorium and full extinction. As said, this planet is truly doomed.

I felt like Rashek, changing something and creating dozens of problems, trying to fix one only to make 2 smaller ones. It isn’t perfect which hurts me (having a Shard that can handwave your problems away is handy, but I had to go Lumar’s way)  and I wanted even more - like the gas giant on a highly elliptical orbit, that crosses orbits of all planets to get as close to the sun as possible, where it gets stretched like an egg and solar winds would start blowing away its atmosphere, making it look like a huge comet on the sky. Fun visual but its passage through every orbit would risk collisions, or total destabilization of every orbit. But it could be theorized by Khriss that when Valor left this gas giant was approaching the sun, passing really close to Vantlar, which might have led to the destruction of Ortagon. “Might” is a keyword as I won’t reveal the real reason (and I definitely, absolutely, for sure know why it happened). 

To add more I wanted to make the atmospheric pressure twice of the Earth’s but that would mean a hotter surface and there is enough heat for me to deal with. I had to scrap it.

I’m repeating myself that Brandon made a world with 12 moons hanging like 300 km from the surface. I can make an unrealistic ring system, falling unrealistically fast on a planet, which cooled down unrealistically fast, while unrealistically still being able to sustain life in an unrealistic timescale. Totally realistic in Cosmere.

I’m not satisfied with 6th power. With this you can make perfect materials like steel or something. Or extract aluminum. But this isn’t very combat related, not to mention most Fearless would be essentially crazy so there is no practical use for this power. Instead I was thinking of extending the range of materials it can affect, like water but turning water into ice seems like the opposite of what I want. Some better ideas?

 

That's it. What do you think?

Edited July 24, 2023 by alder24
Map added

[Underwater_Worldhopper he/him]

19 hours ago, alder24 said:

Oh my, this pressure of expectations is killing me. Do not exaggerate with this genius, genius and I don't get along.

But it is done. Behold, planet Vantlar and its moon Ortagon, a system that Valor once inhabited:

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General description:

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The planet of Vantlar is orbiting in a habitable zone of K-type orange dwarf star (a type of star which is smaller and cooler than that of Cosmere Standard), named locally Adokriss. Vantlar has a mass and size of 1 Cosmere Standard. The planet has an ongoing cataclysm - its only moon, once named Ortagon, got too close to Vantlar and was ripped apart by tidal forces. Most of the material that used to be the moon is now forming gorgeous rocky rings around the host planet, with a few big chunks of Ortagon, being mostly its active hot core, still remaining as whole pieces orbiting Vantlar. The system has also a rocky planet orbiting close to the star, named Kardos, and 3 gas giants, one being on an extremely elliptical orbit. 

The ongoing catastrophe on Vantlar is a process mostly shrouded in mystery. It started when the Shard that once inhabited this system left it, leaving behind their investiture. This Shard was Valor and they didn’t inhabit Vantlar but Ortagon, which back then was habitable and settled by humans and Valor themself (other than that we don’t know anything more about Ortagon). Valor leaving the system doomed both Vantlar and Ortagon. However it’s unknown if Valor’s departure is the cause of destruction of Orgaton or if it just coincided in time. We also don’t know why Valor left the system, why they left their investiture behind instead of ripping it off the system to take it with them. My colleagues from Silverlight proposed that it was due to Vantlar system neighboring Threnody system, where Odium fought Ambition, which happened almost at the same time as Valor leaving, and thus Valor run away in fear. However I find it difficult to accept that a Shard named Valor would act like a coward. 

Geography: 

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There are many reasons why Vantlar is a very dangerous place. Obviously, the shattered moon is the primary reason. The material forming rocky rings is falling on the surface of the planet, creating a mountain range along its equator. Not only rocks are falling on the planet but whatever investiture was left by Valor on Ortagon, this includes pieces of Valor’s god metal, Valorium, but also Valor’s Splinters (known as Spirits). The rings themself are a mesmerizing view, especially at night with Ortagon’s hot pieces of its core still glowing brightly in the sky, illuminating the entire ring system

The mountain range, named the Moonfall Ridge, is hot and inhospitable. This region is covered in a permanent shadow because of the low axial tilt of the planet combined with its rocky ring blocking sunlight almost entirely. However, Ortagon's core remains are large enough to shine above and below the ring system, partially returning light to this dark place in their fast orbit. The Moonfall Ridge varies in height. Where debris fell on landmass it piled up creating formidable peaks, but as some fell into oceans and seas of Vantlar, it created what is known as Dragon’s Teeth, Dragon’s Spine and Dragon’s Tail - a series of mountains whose only peaks are looking over the sea level. They create a series of straits which connect the northern and southern hemisphere together. While they are navigable by ships, those passages are highly dangerous, not only because waters in those regions are very hot, evaporating into a dense fog, but also because of sharp mountain peaks and rocky formations which hide just beneath the surface of the water, ready to tear any ship in half. Despite the danger, those places provide the easiest access to Valorium, therefore there are always people ready to risk their life in search of this invaluable metal. What’s intriguing, local legends talk about a real dragon living among those straits, some even claiming to witness his flight. However, after asking several others known to me dragons, I couldn't identify who it could be. I think this is just a local myth, nothing more, but I’m ready to be proven wrong.

Unfortunately the Moonfall Ridge is also the only place on Vantlar where perpendicularity spontaneously forms - this is due to the falling Valorium, which sometimes concentrates densely enough to form a temporary perpendicularity. Rest of the planet is covered mostly by inhospitable wastelands, cracked open by volcanos spilling magma, which covers the continent's worth of land, and hot or even boiling oceans, with small habitable enclaves located close to its poles. That's where its people live. To my knowledge this planet, while fully habitable, was devoid of intelligent life when Valor was still present in the system, where and when did humans come from is unknown.

Because of Vantlar’s low axial tilt, only a few degrees of tilt, there are almost no polar circles, nor is there polar day and night on Vantlar. This means that polar regions experience a regular day and night cycle, however the sun never rises high in the sky. This creates interesting regions, some valleys or lakes hidden behind hills or mountains are covered in permanent shadow with temperature dropping rapidly in those places. Those are the only regions on the planet where snow and ice can be found. Seasons are also absent on this planet.  While the rings of Vantlar are mostly not visible from polar regions, beautiful aurora borealis compensate for this. 

Ecology and population:

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The Vantlarian vegetation is living in harsh conditions. Despite warm water and air, heavy and long lasting rain periods present on poles, they lack sufficient sunlight to grow and provide food for people. They evolved to use investiture as a substitute for sunlight which allowed them to densely cover poles with forests, jungles or meadows. There are even plants growing in the Moonfall Ridge, they grow very fast, with no leaves, climbing and attaching to hot rocks, sucking in minerals from them. They grow so much that a single plant can sometimes cover the entire mountainside. Their life is focused on a single thing - spreading their seeds, because of constant bombardment from the sky they are likely to die from nearby impacts in weeks or months to come. 

Animal life is mostly found in the form of insects, amphibians and reptiles of various sizes. There are also a few flightless large bird species. Oceans are timing with a variety of marine life, but only near poles, because waters closer to equator are so hot that only a handful of species are adapted to survive in those conditions. The only mammalian species found on Vantlar are domesticated animals possibly brought by humans.

The people of Vantlar are living around both poles, where conditions are mild enough for life to exist (mild compared to the rest of the planet, almost tropical if you compare it to places like Nalthis or Scadrial). They are technologically a bit more advanced than elsewhere in Cosmere, having access to gunpowder, sophisticated sailing techniques or printing press. With this they were able to move out of the safety of poles and create small settlements, trading posts or safe harbors closer to the equator, establishing contact and trading rounds between both polar regions through the Moonfall Ridge. Vantlarian are divided into numerous small nations and kingdoms which are in constant conflict and rivalry over land and resources, with wars erupting almost as often as volcanoes located closer to the equator. 

The ring system is believed by one religion to be heavens or afterlife, a place where souls go after death. Those unworthy of heaven are thrown back on the planet as vengeful Spirits that can achieve redemption only by serving people. Others however believe that those are demons, sent by a god who abandoned them, and wanted to punish them for their ancestors' crimes. They won’t stop until everyone is dead. Fearless who bonded with them are banished from their society or killed on the spot, as they are treated as traitors of mankind and servants of demons. Another religion believes that hot glowing pieces of the moon's core are the eyes of their gods, watching them in their times of trial. This religion values valor and bravery, believing that serving their gods will bring their people closer to salvation. To serve, one must bond with a Spirit by proving themself worthy. Spirits were sent by their gods to test their people’s faith and determination. The rings are believed to be a road to heavens and gods, which now is closed to humans, but will be opened once they pass the divine test. 

Investiture: 

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Valor’s investiture can be found in the form of Splinters, Valorium or invisible gaseous investiture present in the atmosphere. Splinters are boringly named Spirits by Vantlarian. They are always around the equator and can’t leave on their own (I theorize this is because of their strong Connection to Ortagon, thus they have to remain in close proximity to pieces of their former home). They aren’t sapient like some Splinters form Sel or Roshar, they are more like Lesser Spren form Roshar but far less numerous. Unlike them, they are highly dangerous in the Physical Realm, able to partially manifest their physical body. They will always attack anyone invading their territory. However surprisingly they pose no threat in CR as they barely exist there similar to Windspren on Roshar. They seem to be fully blind to affairs happening in CR, making a journey to this planet a little less dangerous. 

Because Spirits are invested Splinters of Valor, it’s impossible to defend against their attack without any invested weapon. That’s why Valorium is so valuable on Vantlar. Native people use it to create weapons to fight Spirit. While they can cut and hurt Spirits, they act like regular weapons in contact with living flesh, unlike the famous Shardblades from Roshar. This god metal also has another interesting property - Valorium absorbs heat and converts itself into Valor’s gaseous investiture which slightly invests the atmosphere. This process bypasses known laws regarding heating up physical matter because metal is always cold to the touch but still reduces in size when exposed to heat, looking like it’s slowly evaporating. Because of that, objects made out of Valorium shrink constantly. Valorium is unforgeable, but very malleable. Since it always absorbs heat, heating it up in forges or trying to melt it to create weapons in a regular way is an impossible task, only making Valorium evaporate faster. However its shape can be easily changed by gentle hammer work. It’s so malleable that one can chew it like bubble gum. Keeping it in ice or snow reduces the rate of evaporation significantly and prevents ice and snow from melting in warmer temperatures.

Because of this unique property of Valorium, it allows Vantlarians to create ships that can sail on hot seas, or settle close to lava covered lands. However, due to Valorium slowly evaporating, Vantlarians have to remade their weapons, tools and parts of their ships out of new metal every once in a while. I suspect Valorium plays an important role in making this planet habitable at all. My calculations show that this planet shouldn’t be able to support life at all. The violent destruction of Ortagon threw its pieces onto the surface of Vantlar, smashing into it like mountain-sized asteroids, quickly creating what now is known as the Moonfall Ridge. This event lasted for hundreds of years, heating up the atmosphere, melting the surface of Vantlar, and creating volcanic regions that are still spewing lava till this day. Later it stabilized a bit, which allowed the planet to cool down. While this is still an ongoing process, nowadays much smaller debris is falling less frequently on the equator. But this, combined with massive lava flows, still heats up the surface of the planet, but on a smaller scale. However, the cooling of Vantlar happened extremely fast. I suspect Valorium absorbed heat from impact events, eruptions and from the atmosphere of Vantlar, helping to cool it down back to more habitable conditions. I’m worried will Valorium freeze the planet if its rocky ring stops falling down and magma ceases rising to the surface? Or if Valoruim runs out, will the temperature on the planet rise rapidly, destroying the last enclaves of habitability? Right now Vantlar seems to find its balance - the average temperature, while very high, hasn't changed for the last 1000 years. However the remaining big pieces of Ortagon’s core will eventually fall down on Vantlar’s surface, so either way this planet and its population is doomed.

Invested Art:

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For unknown reasons sometimes a Spirit will form an invasive Nahel Bond with their prey, instead of killing them. This bond is very damaging to the receiver, as Spirit rips their prey's souls to create large cracks that can accommodate them. Those people chosen by Spirits are known as Fearless. Unfortunately for them damage done to their soul is irreversible, sometimes sufficient enough to drive that person into a madness. A Fearless can be bonded with more than one Spirit, each time the process is equally as brutal, straining their mental health and their soul even further. After bonding with the 7th Spirit, they can’t bond anymore without their soul being ripped to pieces, suffering excruciating pain and death. However people don't choose to bond, Spirits do, if Fearless with seven bonds is chosen again, there is nothing that can be done to prevent a Spirit from bonding them. Because of the demanding nature of each subsequent bond, Fearless bonded with more than 4 Spirits are very rare. 

The bond with Fearless allows Spirits to leave the Moonfall Ridge, and manifest fully in CR, disappearing from and unable to interact with PR. In exchange each Spirit grants their Fearless powers. Each new bond increases the strength of abilities granted by previous bonds and gives a new one. With each new bond their body gets more invested and more resilient to the invested attack of hostile Spirits. While they can never fully block those attacks under normal circumstances, hostile Spirits can’t penetrate as deep and as fast compared to uninvested people. Powers granted by bonds are:

1. General enhancements - with the first bond they get numerous enhancements, like increase in strength, speed, or endurance. 
2. Hardskin - the second bond turns their skin into a literal rock, which is very hard, yet without limiting their movement. It looks very similar to stone Soulcasters from Roshar. At first their whole body looks like made out of numerous thin and small rocks, having almost the same color as a normal skin, with more bonds their armor thickens, gets stronger and become more visible and reddish, making it look like they’re made out of large stones (despite their skin being made out of literal rocks, their bodies still float on water and on lava).
3. Heat resistance - the third bond increases their heat resistance. 
4. Lava Ribbon - the fourth bond gives them the ability to control lava with their will. They can form a ribbon of lava, which climbs and twists around their skin that then can be thrown at distance. Those ribbons look very similar to Sand Mastery from my homeworld. 
5. Liquefaction/solidification - the fifth bond allows them to change the state of lava. They can solidify liquid lava or liquify solid rocks into lava. Some use this ability to create beautiful art or practical structures, however this is mostly used in fighting or during wars (I’ve heard of a siege that was “won” by turning sections of walls into lava, flooding parts of the city). It also increases the number of ribbons by 1 (as each new bond does, plus increases the range at which ribbons can be manipulated by a bit)
6. Refining - Fearless can isolate specific elements from lava ribbons and extract pure substances from them. 
7. Manifestation - the last, seventh bond allows Fearless to command their Spirits. Fearless can force one of his Spirits to manifest in the Physical Realm in his natural form, and command it to act according to his will. They can keep their physical form only for a limited time.

Little is known about powers granted by 5 or more bonds because of how rare Fearless with this many bonds are. To make it even more problematic, at this point most Fearless are already insane due to high damages their soul obtained with each new bond. That’s why the knowledge of what can be done with those higher powers is very limited and exploration of new possibilities is mostly theoretical. 

What’s interesting is that those abilities and effects aren’t constantly available to Fearless. A Fearless must first please their Spirits by performing some act of bravery or valor, which allows them to subconsciously use investiture present in the atmosphere to awaken and fuel their Art. A single, valorous act allows for one day of power usage, and with each hour their powers are getting weaker. What defines a valorous act is likely a personal perception - there are Fearless who can put their hands into a fire and awaken their powers, but there are also those who will only burn themselves doing so. The requirement of a brave act, with the combination of mental damage done by bonds, isn’t helping at all. This creates people who sometimes do truly insane stuff, like throwing themself off a cliff or jumping into a lava - I ask myself, is it still bravery or just simple stupidity?

For many Fearless the requirement of bravery took a vastly more sane approach. Instead of throwing themself off cliffs, they developed a complicated dueling culture, where Fearless fight each other on specially prepared or chosen custom battle grounds, with limitations or enhancements to help Fearless feel brave and valorous for their powers to be awakened. This tradition developed in one nation, was eventually spread across both poles, now being a standard almost in every nation.

However this requirement of valor can be bypassed by using Valorium. A Fearless can fuel their arts directly with it by chewing it. A Fearless using Valorium is several times more powerful than a normal Fearless - a Fearless with 1 bond using Valorium is stronger and faster than the one with 7 bonds and  no metal. A Fearless with 2 bonds has skin that looks silvery in color, like made out of Valorium itself, impenetrable to even invested weapons or Spirits attacks. A Fearless with 4 bonds can create 7 ribbons of lava at once, with each bond giving them 7 more ribbons. With 7 bonds they can part a lava lake around them and walk on the bottom of it or command all 7 Spirits at once. Even their eyes change as they look like emitting a silvery fire. However Valorium runs out very fast, a single bead can last only for several minutes.

While Fearless can technically swim in lava because of their heat resistance and the ability to move lava around them, this is still highly dangerous. Breathing in lava or swallowing it is apparently a very painful and often deadly process for Fearless. It looks like Fearless aren't that lava-proof from the inside. Importantly, their bond with Spirits don't grant them any form of healing. 

 

 

And of course, self-nitpicking:

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This whole idea was started with a thought of magic being activated by doing crazy stunts like jumping off a cliff or something like that.

Of course, this planet can’t exist in this state. There are several problems with it. One is the destruction of the moon itself - it can happen in real life, it’s how ring systems are created. I’m not sure how fast it is or if there would be some core remains still in one piece orbiting around - it’s a blind guess. Rule of cool then, I want glowing pieces of rock in the sky, which might either get disintegrated when getting closer, fall on the planet, or stabilize between rings and become new moons. 

 

Second problem is the timescale. The decay of a ring system happens over millions or hundreds of millions of years - it won’t throw chunks of moon into a planet making a mountain range just in a few centuries. This is a far longer process - so something caused it to happen that fast. Falling rings can form mountain ranges along the equator and I really want to have them: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equatorial_ridge_on_Iapetus

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But digging some more after writing it all, bigger remains can be present. Rocky rings can last millions of years but they can leave big chunks of a moon intact that will fall on the surface with low-velocity impacts. It’s still too fast in my world but I wasn't that wrong (probably).©

But then if a literal mountain range fell from the sky for over a few hundreds of years, it would be like the Late Heavy Bombardment period on early Earth - hot, molten and inhospitable. Each asteroid impact would be like a dino-killing asteroid striking over and over again for hundreds of years, but with a bit smaller speeds. Cooling from that would last another millions of years. On top of that it might cause massive seismic activity - in my case I made it cause a flood basalt on a global scale - a flood basalt size of 2/3 of continental USA caused the biggest extinction event in the history of the Earth and I want half of the planet to be covered by it. And again timescale, a flood basalt lasts for millions of years. I may be wrong with the amount of heat produced by all of this, I'm not an expert. It just feels right to me.

I’ve made an impossibly heated planet. Solution for this was Valorium dealing with heat. At first I thought it just transports heat into SR and the problem is solved. But it didn’t feel right (what's happening with the energy in SR) and was too close to @Underwater_Worldhopper god metal©. I was thinking of making the orbit far larger, too far away from the habitable zone, in freezing regions, but that wouldn’t solve problems of cooling so fast. And I didn’t have a Shard that could handwave my problems away. Eventually I surrender and make the most reasonable solution, killing two birds with one stone - Valorum takes heat and transfers it into gaseous investiture along with itself. Almost the same as Invention's god metal© and I’m very angry at myself for my inability to figure out anything else. The second bird was investiture source for Fearless (as no Shard can provide it) - at first I thought of Valorium dust being present in the atmosphere but it didn’t really work out with it shrinking. @Underwater_Worldhopper sorry for using your idea. If you don't like it, I might figure something else and change it to something different.

There has to be a lot of Valorium, which is fine, because I wanted to have a lot of it, and it’s stuck in close cycle (like era 1 Atium) - it falls down on Vantlar, evaporates into gaseous investiture, it gets used by plants, maybe some animals and Fearless and gets recycled back when investiture solidifies back into Valorium somewhere in rings, which eventually will fall down too. This cycle can change over next millenia based on perception and remains of Ortagon - either its focus point will shift and it will solidify on big core pieces which are in orbit (cooling them down), or it will start solidifying on the Moonfall Ridge. One means no Valorium on Vantlar and full extinction, second one means lots of Valorium and full extinction. As said, this planet is truly doomed.

I felt like Rashek, changing something and creating dozens of problems, trying to fix one only to make 2 smaller ones. It isn’t perfect which hurts me (having a Shard that can handwave your problems away is handy, but I had to go Lumar’s way)  and I wanted even more - like the gas giant on a highly elliptical orbit, that crosses orbits of all planets to get as close to the sun as possible, where it gets stretched like an egg and solar winds would start blowing away its atmosphere, making it look like a huge comet on the sky. Fun visual but its passage through every orbit would risk collisions, or total destabilization of every orbit. But it could be theorized by Khriss that when Valor left this gas giant was approaching the sun, passing really close to Vantlar, which might have led to the destruction of Ortagon. “Might” is a keyword as I won’t reveal the real reason (and I definitely, absolutely, for sure know why it happened). 

To add more I wanted to make the atmospheric pressure twice of the Earth’s but that would mean a hotter surface and there is enough heat for me to deal with. I had to scrap it.

I’m repeating myself that Brandon made a world with 12 moons hanging like 300 km from the surface. I can make an unrealistic ring system, falling unrealistically fast on a planet, which cooled down unrealistically fast, while unrealistically still being able to sustain life in an unrealistic timescale. Totally realistic in Cosmere.

I’m not satisfied with 6th power. With this you can make perfect materials like steel or something. Or extract aluminum. But this isn’t very combat related, not to mention most Fearless would be essentially crazy so there is no practical use for this power. Instead I was thinking of extending the range of materials it can affect, like water but turning water into ice seems like the opposite of what I want. Some better ideas?

 

That's it. What do you think?

Okay, wow. The entire idea of a doomed planet mid-catastrophe, burning fields of heat and lava, a shattered moon raining down, and evil, hostile Splinters is amazing. It's loud, it's bold, and it demands your attention. I liked the concept of invasive bonds especially, it's something we know is possible thanks to Spore-Eaters and Re-Shephir, but nothing that we've seen in effect before. The fact that they rend tears into your soul to create accommodations for themselves is uniquely unsettling, and I love it. The religions, in particular, were a great touch, I love the different ways lore and legend from the original event developed into similar but differing ideas.

However, I do have some nitpicks

What is the axial position of the planet? You say it's "just a few degrees", but is that just a few degrees off from an upright position (like Earth), or from a horizontal position (like Uranus)? I first thought it would be the second one, like Uranus, as you mentioned that the axial tilt of the planet, as well as the ring system, keeps the Moonfall Ridge area completely blocked off from the sun. If Vantlar was just a few degrees off having a horizontal tilt, that would mean that half of the equatorial ridge would be in the dark thanks to its own shadow, with the ring system blocking the light coming from the star-ward side. This creates problems, like a year-long day-night cycle, but I thought that was just how this planet works. Later, however, you say that there are no polar circles and no polar day-night cycles. Which one is it, and what does that mean for the Ridge and the Poles?

Secondly, what does the orbit of the Core of Ortagon look like? It's the primary source of light for at least the Ridge, and I presume for quite a bit of the equatorial region too. Does its orbit match the rotation of Vantlar, and it only illuminates one part of the planet perpetually, or does it orbit at a different speed, illuminating different parts of the ridge, but only one at a time?

What is the origin of all the Valorium? Creating a God Metal is a deliberate process, and it's hard to make one without the Shard itself (WoB frustratingly unavailable at the moment). The only known time God Metal was produced not by the express will of a Shard was the Pits of Hathsin, which Preservation made specifically to do so, and even that kind of doesn't count because a Shard was still involved. So was all that Valorium already on Ortagon and it's just now raining down on Vantlar, or did Valor intentionally turn it into a God Metal as or before it escaped? How often does Valorium land on Vantlar? Is it sporadic or constant but slow? How is Valorium recovered from the boiling depths? How quickly does it decay? How much sheer Investiture is falling out of the sky that enough of a metal that disintegrates with heat survives the heat and destructive friction of entering the atmosphere, then the impact, then boiling hot water to be used in making ships and Weapons? If chunks of that much Investiture are just flying around, and can sometimes form Perpendicularities when/after entering, does that not mean Vantlar is surrounded and orbited by Perpendicularities in space? How does Valorium hold its shape while it's being integrated into a ship or weapon, if it's that malleable? How do Valorium Ships survive the heat? What are the Ships made of anyway? Is there wood on Vantlar that can survive the heat of boiling water for so long?

Following from that, you said that the Valorium is in a closed system, with it reforming in the Rings to come shooting back down. Why? Should the Investiture not be returning to the SR, and to Valor, as it's used? A possible solution for this could be that Valor made a Pits of Hathsin-esque way for Valorium to be produced on Ortagon, and that process is still being carried out in whatever's left of the moon in the rings, but I'm sure there's a reason already.

How did Spirits come to be? Did they exist on Ortagon, and were dragged to Vantlar by their Connection to the chunks of Ortagon that landed there? What purpose did they serve on Ortagon? Or did they form after Valor left, from the suddenly unoverseen Investiture?

Why is there so little life in the oceans? Hydrothermal vents get up to 371 degrees C in temperature, but there's tons of life around them. Would the water not be colder the deeper you go anyhow?

If there is next to no axial tilt, and no seasons, why are the conditions on poles less extreme?

Anyway, I also have some questions about Vantlar and Ortagon.

• If ancient Ortagon was inhabited, why wasn't Vantlar?
• How long has it been since Ortagon got destroyed?
• What do the Spirits look like?
• Why are they so eager to bond with humans? What do they gain by entering the CR, and what do they do there?
• What did Vantlar look like before Valor left?
• What was the name of the catastrophe? We have Desolations/Returns, The Recreance, and Aharietiam from Roshar, the Catacendre from Scadrial, the Manywar on Nalthis, and the Reod on Sel. Something as dramatic as a moon tearing itself apart should definitely have a cool name.
• How do Vantlarians know what a Dragon is/looks like?
• Was there a Perpendicularity on Ortagon? Did anyone living on it previously survive?
• If a Fearless got access to something like Unkeyed Dor, how much more powerful would their powers become?
• What do Spirits look like when they're summoned by a Fearless? Can a Fearless summon one as a Shardweapon, and will it work like a Shardblade? I feel that if it's possible for them to become physical, they shouldn't be able to cut like Shardblades, but maybe you've prepared a reason for why they can.

Loved this entire concept, so cool!

Edit: Just saw the map, that's awesome. How did you make it? Also, is the Moonfall Ridge a ring around the North, or is it an equatorial ridge?

Edit 2: I just now realized that I didn't write down any of the ideas I had for dealing with the heat and whatnot. Oh well, I'll add it to the next post.

Edited July 24, 2023 by Underwater_Worldhopper

[alder24]

I forgot to add the map yesterday, now you can find it in the geography section.

 

2 hours ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

Okay, wow. The entire idea of a doomed planet mid-catastrophe, burning fields of heat and lava, a shattered moon raining down, and evil, hostile Splinters is amazing. It's loud, it's bold, and it demands your attention. I liked the concept of invasive bonds especially, it's something we know is possible thanks to Spore-Eaters and Re-Shephir, but nothing that we've seen in effect before. The fact that they rend tears into your soul to create accommodations for themselves is uniquely unsettling, and I love it. The religions, in particular, were a great touch, I love the different ways lore and legend from the original event developed into similar but differing ideas.

Thank you for your kind words  

6 minutes ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

However, I do have some nitpicks

Good, I was hoping you will say that.

4 minutes ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

What is the axial position of the planet? You say it's "just a few degrees", but is that just a few degrees off from an upright position (like Earth), or from a horizontal position (like Uranus)?

Very similar to Mercury's tilt, which is almost 0. So less than 2 degrees of tilt for Vantlar in "normal" position. Uranus has ~90 degrees of tilt, axial tilt is measured the same for all planets.

Because Mercury has almost no axial tilt it literally has permanent shadows regions where temperature drops from 400K to 50K. Here it is a more than 50K, because Vantlar has an atmosphere, Mercury doesn't.

There are a very small polar circles. I was also thinking of making it fluctuate very fast, in a period of 100 years because of the recent destruction of Ortagon - Earth's axial tilt is changing by ~2 degrees in a 40000 year cycle. But that's not canon for now.  

15 minutes ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

I first thought it would be the second one, like Uranus, as you mentioned that the axial tilt of the planet, as well as the ring system, keeps the Moonfall Ridge area completely blocked off from the sun.

No, the ring system is along the equator, and that's perpendicular to the sun like on Earth. Bun on Vantlar sun always is above the equator, it doesn't go to the tropics. And the ring system has a thickness. Saturn's rings are around 1 km thick. Here they would be thicker because they're made out of rocks, and there are more lager pieces of rocks orbiting there, larger even than 1 km (notably core pieces).

19 minutes ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

If Vantlar was just a few degrees off having a horizontal tilt, that would mean that half of the equatorial ridge would be in the dark thanks to its own shadow, with the ring system blocking the light coming from the star-ward side. This creates problems, like a year-long day-night cycle

Hmm, yes. I didn't think of that. Either way, the Moonfall ridge is covered in shadows. Either entirely or just half of it. 

21 minutes ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

Later, however, you say that there are no polar circles and no polar day-night cycles

Almost! Almost no poler circles!

23 minutes ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

Secondly, what does the orbit of the Core of Ortagon look like? It's the primary source of light for at least the Ridge, and I presume for quite a bit of the equatorial region too. Does its orbit match the rotation of Vantlar, and it only illuminates one part of the planet perpetually, or does it orbit at a different speed, illuminating different parts of the ridge, but only one at a time?

There are several pieces of core. They're on orbit closer than geostationary orbit (~36k km) and most are closer than Moon-Earth Roche Limit (~9k km - those would fall on Vantlar, those above this limit would speed up, extent their orbit and form new moons form rings present there) but not closer than around 7k km (no idea if those are correct numbers, they feel right base on my Roche limit math). They orbit faster than Vantlar rotates (because they're belove geostationary orbit), and complete their orbit several times a day. They're more similar to ISS, which orbits 16 times in a day but not that fast. If you look at Satrun's rings, in the gaps between rings there are some very small moons, dozens or hundreds of kilometers wide. That's something like that. Many pieces, with different speeds making several orbits in a day. They're quite fast on the sky.

30 minutes ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

What is the origin of all the Valorium? Creating a God Metal is a deliberate process, and it's hard to make one without the Shard itself (WoB frustratingly unavailable at the moment).

Valor made it on Ortagon and left it there. He made the cycle work and bound it to Ortagon. The cycle is quicker than that of Atium, no 300 years of waiting, it happens almost instantly (in less than a year)

32 minutes ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

How often does Valorium land on Vantlar? Is it sporadic or constant but slow? How is Valorium recovered from the boiling depths? How quickly does it decay? How much sheer Investiture is falling out of the sky that enough of a metal that disintegrates with heat survives the heat and destructive friction of entering the atmosphere, then the impact, then boiling hot water to be used in making ships and Weapons?

Oh yes, interesting questions. It would be good to have answers to them. RAFO!  

There is lots of Valor raining down - not alone, but fused with rocks and debris in rings. Depending on the size of debris, smaller pieces will implode in the atmosphere (like Chelyabinsk event), but because they have much lower speeds and there is Valorium in them that absorbs lots of heat, many reach the Moonfall Ridge. Valorium found there is in small pieces, nothing big at this point, but that depends on the area and the size of the debris - there are still 1 km of meteorite falling with large amounts of Valorium in it. And yes, it survives all of this, somehow. 

39 minutes ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

If chunks of that much Investiture are just flying around, and can sometimes form Perpendicularities when/after entering, does that not mean Vantlar is surrounded and orbited by Perpendicularities in space?

Oh you've spotted it! YES  And yes, it can be dangerous  

45 minutes ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

How does Valorium hold its shape while it's being integrated into a ship or weapon, if it's that malleable?

It doesn't. That's why you don't swing this sword at people or objects and that's why the ship's design must place it inside, to prevent water from deforming it. There is a layer of wood, maybe Valorium and another layer of wood. Ships aren't made entirely out of Valorium, just some parts. I haven't decided if they work like a fabrial/Mehwish ship - a Valorium core with wires of brass transmitting heat to that, saving the ship and its crew from overheating, or just a thin layer of sporadically placed stripes on the bottom of the ships (inside the ship), and around its decks. 

47 minutes ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

How do Valorium Ships survive the heat? What are the Ships made of anyway? Is there wood on Vantlar that can survive the heat of boiling water for so long?

Wood. Not all waters are boiling. It depends on the region. Those in places where lava flows into oceans are boiling, but somewhere in the middle of oceans they are only "deadly hot". It's not pre-Catacendre Scadrial level of hot, but still too deadly for humans (they can chew Valorium to reduce their body's temperature). Normal trees grow on poles. Wood won't self-ignite on those waters and on ships it's coated in a protective layer of something. I don't know how ships in real live are made in details.  

52 minutes ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

Following from that, you said that the Valorium is in a closed system, with it reforming in the Rings to come shooting back down. Why? Should the Investiture not be returning to the SR, and to Valor, as it's used?

No, because it's like the Atium cycle. Atium after being burned didn't return to Ruin but to the Pits where after 300 years it reformed. Here, because it was bound in the same way, it returns to Ortagon (or at least what's left of it), where it reforms quite fast (not literally instantly but less than a year).

54 minutes ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

How did Spirits come to be? Did they exist on Ortagon, and were dragged to Vantlar by their Connection to the chunks of Ortagon that landed there?

I will answer this as Khriss: That's the most likely explanation. I doubt however that they existed there in the same form as today. The departure of Valor or destruction of Ortagon must have changed something in their nature to make them physical, this aggressive and maybe even almost mindless. However those are only speculations.

55 minutes ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

What purpose did they serve on Ortagon?

Khriss: Unknown.

57 minutes ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

Or did they form after Valor left, from the suddenly unoverseen Investiture?

Khriss: That's another likely possibility. As we know, investiture left alone tends to develop sentience on their own. I'm afraid we might never know and the only entity that knows it, Valor, refuses to answer my letters. 

59 minutes ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

Why is there so little life in the oceans? Hydrothermal vents get up to 371 degrees C in temperature, but there's tons of life around them.

Because I'm not a biologist Somehow Siberian Traps killed 80% of marine life forms during Permian extinction and it raised the water temperature "only" to ~40 degrees C (and destroyed Earth's ozone layer) on average (the highest ever seen in the geologic record). Marine life just didn't have time to adapt. Plus the initial Late Heavy Bombardment-like period evaporated lots of water, killing almost everything living there. 

Hydrothermal vents release lots of minerals, which are needed for microorganisms, those are the food for bigger organisms, and those are eaten by fishes or something. Essentially there is a food chain established around them. Here everything just collapsed in a single day.

1 hour ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

Would the water not be colder the deeper you go anyhow?

It would. But people don't have technology to look that deep. They don't know what's down below.

1 hour ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

If there is next to no axial tilt, and no seasons, why are the conditions on poles less extreme?

Little to no sunlite - it hits the ground on such extreme angle that the perpendicular rays are spreaded over large area:

Spoiler

There are also areas with snow and ice with very low temperatures, air convection cools the area too. And they are most distant from rocks falling from the sky and volcanos and flood basalts, so heat disperses before getting to poles. Temperatures there are still tropical, but not inhospitable. The global average temperature is less than 100 degrees C.

1 hour ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

Anyway, I also have some questions about Vantlar and Ortagon.

Oh boy, I know how you felt now, when I was poking holes in your ideas  

1 hour ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

• If ancient Ortagon was inhabited, why wasn't Vantlar?

Because. I hope that works  Khriss: Valor didn't want to, didn't care, or didn't make perpendicularity there. Humans origin on Ortagon is still unknown, they'd decided to settle Ortagon, not Vantlar for some reason.

1 hour ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

• How long has it been since Ortagon got destroyed?

It happened at the same time as Odium fought Ambition on Threnody, which was at the same time as Valor leaving the system. As soon as Valor left it happened (it doesn't mean he is responsible - it's unknown). Very early after the Shattering.

1 hour ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

• What do the Spirits look like?

Hmm, I was thinking more silvery but transparent. They aren't easy to spot. 

1 hour ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

• Why are they so eager to bond with humans? What do they gain by entering the CR, and what do they do there?

Khriss: Unknown. Possible bigger Cognitive presence is what's appealing to them. Or maybe they used to be sapient and they're longing to recover it? Most people who encounter Spirits are killed by them, not bonded. 

1 hour ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

• What did Vantlar look like before Valor left?

Earth before Homo-species evolved. Earth without humans.

1 hour ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

• What was the name of the catastrophe? We have Desolations/Returns, The Recreance, and Aharietiam from Roshar, the Catacendre from Scadrial, the Manywar on Nalthis, and the Reod on Sel. Something as dramatic as a moon tearing itself apart should definitely have a cool name.

Oh boy. Names. My arch-nemesis. Let me think... Khriss: because of the unknown origin of humanity on Vantlar, it's unlikely that they came from Ortagon (as there was around a 1000 year long period of total inhospitality on Vantlar so they couldn't just switch to Vantlar). Therefore the early settlers arriving in the system would know only the rings and debris falling from the sky, and wouldn't know that something caused it to happen in the first place. Because of that native population doesn't have any name for the destruction of Ortagon, and scholars of Silverlight call it boringly "the destruction of Ortagon" sometimes adding "in the Vantlar system" for precision.

Side note: I hope that our naming standards for stars and planetary systems persist, as there are some in Silverlight who want to use some weird catalog names, where Vantlar would be known as SIC 8462926. Very poetic indeed.

Joke, that's how we name new stars...

1 hour ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

• How do Vantlarians know what a Dragon is/looks like?

Legends, myths, religions, depictions in art, Cosmere Connection and perspective or some other Cosmere explanations. Or maybe they don't know, and that's why they called the pile of rocks a dragon? Or maybe there is a religion that worships the dragon on Vantlar?   

1 hour ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

• Was there a Perpendicularity on Ortagon? Did anyone living on it previously survive?

Khriss: It's very likely there was a perpendicularity on Ortagon as it was inhabited by a Shard. There isn't any record of people from Ortagon escaping the moon. We must assume that everyone living on Ortagon was killed by its destruction and they had no time to even react to it.

1 hour ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

• If a Fearless got access to something like Unkeyed Dor, how much more powerful would their powers become?

Less powerful than what Valorium can give them. Dor is liquid, less concentrated than a solid god metal. But you can have a jar of it, which would last for much longer than a single bead of Valorium.

1 hour ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

• What do Spirits look like when they're summoned by a Fearless? Can a Fearless summon one as a Shardweapon, and will it work like a Shardblade? I feel that if it's possible for them to become physical, they shouldn't be able to cut like Shardblades, but maybe you've prepared a reason for why they can.

Khriss: They look the same as they naturally look when they're unbonded, visible to everyone. Nobody tried to summon it as a Shardweapon, it's unknown if that's possible. But they're Splinters, Seons are Splinters too and can be made into Shardweapons, so maybe Spirits too? They are already partially acting like a Shardblade but this nature isn't well understood for now.

Keep in mind, people living on Vantlar are technologically in Early Modern Period, with access to gunpowder and with the "pike and shot" tactic. To fight with Spirits they sometimes create Valorium bullets, which aren't very effective for obvious reasons, however they rely mostly on Valorium rapiers, sabers or even pikes - weapons commonly used in the Early Modern Period.

2 hours ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

Edit: Just saw the map, that's awesome. How did you make it? Also, is the Moonfall Ridge a ring around the North, or is it an equatorial ridge?

https://inkarnate.com/ - "free" tool, that has volcanoes and lava ground locked by subscription  

It's an equatorial ridge. This map is a Gott Projection - it shows only the northern hemisphere with the north pole at the center, ending on the equator, that's why the map looks like a circle. The Moonfall Ridge is on the equator. I didn't know a Gott projection before you asked, I thought it would be cool to make a map projection, similar to azimuthal equidistant projection that ends on the equator, not the south pole.

 

Uff that was a lot. Good think you didn't nitpick "where is the ash-covered atmosphere"  

[AirsickAviar he/him]

On 7/8/2023 at 3:15 PM, Lightweaver2 said:

Ruin + Odium = Malice

Preservation + Honor = Stability

Whimsy + Ruin = Chaos

I'm not sure about stability, but maybe Protection? Not only preserving things, but the words, ideas and honor.

And instead of Malice, Dread?

Also, love to the chaos one! Blood for the blood throne! Chaos gods, lol

[Weaver of Shadows he/him]

19 minutes ago, AirsickAviar said:

I'm not sure about stability, but maybe Protection? Not only preserving things, but the words, ideas and honor.

And instead of Malice, Dread?

Also, love to the chaos one! Blood for the blood throne! Chaos gods, lol

I agree that protection would work well. Dead implies fear while malice is intent to harm another, so I would take Malice over Dread. Thank you!

[Firesong she/her]

I find Whimsy and Honor or Whimsy and Preservation to be an interesting combination, lack of control with complete order. 

[Underwater_Worldhopper he/him]

 

On 7/24/2023 at 3:53 PM, alder24 said:

Very similar to Mercury's tilt, which is almost 0. So less than 2 degrees of tilt for Vantlar in "normal" position. Uranus has ~90 degrees of tilt, axial tilt is measured the same for all planets.

Because Mercury has almost no axial tilt it literally has permanent shadows regions where temperature drops from 400K to 50K. Here it is a more than 50K, because Vantlar has an atmosphere, Mercury doesn't.

There are a very small polar circles. I was also thinking of making it fluctuate very fast, in a period of 100 years because of the recent destruction of Ortagon - Earth's axial tilt is changing by ~2 degrees in a 40000 year cycle. But that's not canon for now.

That clears it up.

On 7/24/2023 at 3:53 PM, alder24 said:

No, the ring system is along the equator, and that's perpendicular to the sun like on Earth. Bun on Vantlar sun always is above the equator, it doesn't go to the tropics. And the ring system has a thickness. Saturn's rings are around 1 km thick. Here they would be thicker because they're made out of rocks, and there are more lager pieces of rocks orbiting there, larger even than 1 km (notably core pieces).

Hmm, yes. I didn't think of that. Either way, the Moonfall ridge is covered in shadows. Either entirely or just half of it. 

I think with the rings and depending on how the Ridge forms, you could feasibly say that they're entirely in the dark.

On 7/24/2023 at 3:53 PM, alder24 said:

There are several pieces of core. They're on orbit closer than geostationary orbit (~36k km) and most are closer than Moon-Earth Roche Limit (~9k km - those would fall on Vantlar, those above this limit would speed up, extent their orbit and form new moons form rings present there) but not closer than around 7k km (no idea if those are correct numbers, they feel right base on my Roche limit math). They orbit faster than Vantlar rotates (because they're belove geostationary orbit), and complete their orbit several times a day. They're more similar to ISS, which orbits 16 times in a day but not that fast. If you look at Satrun's rings, in the gaps between rings there are some very small moons, dozens or hundreds of kilometers wide. That's something like that. Many pieces, with different speeds making several orbits in a day. They're quite fast on the sky.

That fixes that.

On 7/24/2023 at 3:53 PM, alder24 said:

Valor made it on Ortagon and left it there. He made the cycle work and bound it to Ortagon. The cycle is quicker than that of Atium, no 300 years of waiting, it happens almost instantly (in less than a year)

Does it have a specific place of formation, like the Atium Crystal-producing geodes? How did they survive the destruction of Ortagon? How do they form?

On 7/24/2023 at 3:53 PM, alder24 said:

Oh yes, interesting questions. It would be good to have answers to them. RAFO!

Dang it! I honestly thought you'd have prepared an explanation for that

On 7/24/2023 at 3:53 PM, alder24 said:

Oh you've spotted it! YES  And yes, it can be dangerous

Does that mean that the Perpendicularities move in the Cognitive Realm too?

On 7/24/2023 at 3:53 PM, alder24 said:

It doesn't. That's why you don't swing this sword at people or objects and that's why the ship's design must place it inside, to prevent water from deforming it. There is a layer of wood, maybe Valorium and another layer of wood. Ships aren't made entirely out of Valorium, just some parts. I haven't decided if they work like a fabrial/Mehwish ship - a Valorium core with wires of brass transmitting heat to that, saving the ship and its crew from overheating, or just a thin layer of sporadically placed stripes on the bottom of the ships (inside the ship), and around its decks.

Makes sense.

On 7/24/2023 at 3:53 PM, alder24 said:

Wood. Not all waters are boiling. It depends on the region. Those in places where lava flows into oceans are boiling, but somewhere in the middle of oceans they are only "deadly hot". It's not pre-Catacendre Scadrial level of hot, but still too deadly for humans (they can chew Valorium to reduce their body's temperature). Normal trees grow on poles. Wood won't self-ignite on those waters and on ships it's coated in a protective layer of something. I don't know how ships in real live are made in details. 

That should be enough to explain it, I think.

On 7/24/2023 at 3:53 PM, alder24 said:

I will answer this as Khriss: That's the most likely explanation. I doubt however that they existed there in the same form as today. The departure of Valor or destruction of Ortagon must have changed something in their nature to make them physical, this aggressive and maybe even almost mindless. However those are only speculations.

Hmmm, so there's room for theories.

On 7/24/2023 at 3:53 PM, alder24 said:

Khriss: Unknown.

Is that a "I'm not telling" or a "There's no answer"?

On 7/24/2023 at 3:53 PM, alder24 said:

Khriss: That's another likely possibility. As we know, investiture left alone tends to develop sentience on their own. I'm afraid we might never know and the only entity that knows it, Valor, refuses to answer my letters.

Maybe Valor is dead too.

On 7/24/2023 at 3:53 PM, alder24 said:

Because I'm not a biologist Somehow Siberian Traps killed 80% of marine life forms during Permian extinction and it raised the water temperature "only" to ~40 degrees C (and destroyed Earth's ozone layer) on average (the highest ever seen in the geologic record). Marine life just didn't have time to adapt. Plus the initial Late Heavy Bombardment-like period evaporated lots of water, killing almost everything living there.

The Siberian traps killed 80% of marine life because the eruptions continued for roughly 2 million years, during which time they'd be spewing ash and lava into the atmosphere and ocean, changing all sorts of environmental conditions, including the ozone layer, like you said. Not only that, raising the global water temperature to at minimum of 40 degrees C is a devastatingly huge amount. The last ice age, for comparison, only cooled global temperatures by 8 degrees. 40~< degrees isn't the highest ever seen in the geological record, by the way. The Permian-Triassic was the most devastating extinction event in the geological record, but the highest water temperature ever recorded is actually 85-90 degrees.

I point it out because despite the heat, some life did survive on Vantlar, and the temperature has now decreased enough in areas that should have induced it to multiply. The level it's at right now is good enough if we were trying to be realistic, but if there's enough Investiture that a single plant can grow to encompass an entire mountain, the marine life would develop faster too. You could make all sorts of cool, heat-resistant alien fish using that, maybe ones that use Investiture.

On 7/24/2023 at 3:53 PM, alder24 said:

Hydrothermal vents release lots of minerals, which are needed for microorganisms, those are the food for bigger organisms, and those are eaten by fishes or something. Essentially there is a food chain established around them. Here everything just collapsed in a single day.

The lavaflows would introduce a lot of those same minerals into the water. It would create much the same environment. Yes, everything collapsed in a single day, but it's been a while since that collapse, with Investiture there to speed up the process.

On 7/24/2023 at 3:53 PM, alder24 said:

It would. But people don't have technology to look that deep. They don't know what's down below.

Makes sense. Wonder what kind of horrors are lurking down there.

On 7/24/2023 at 3:53 PM, alder24 said:

Little to no sunlite - it hits the ground on such extreme angle that the perpendicular rays are spreaded over large area.

There are also areas with snow and ice with very low temperatures, air convection cools the area too. And they are most distant from rocks falling from the sky and volcanos and flood basalts, so heat disperses before getting to poles. Temperatures there are still tropical, but not inhospitable. The global average temperature is less than 100 degrees C.

The sunlight wouldn't be relevant to a planet with it's atmosphere being set ablaze so often, but the second one clears it up.

On 7/24/2023 at 3:53 PM, alder24 said:

Oh boy, I know how you felt now, when I was poking holes in your ideas

That section wasn't meant to be nitpicking, just things within your world that I was curious about.

On 7/24/2023 at 3:53 PM, alder24 said:

Because. I hope that works  Khriss: Valor didn't want to, didn't care, or didn't make perpendicularity there. Humans origin on Ortagon is still unknown, they'd decided to settle Ortagon, not Vantlar for some reason.

Did Valor create them, Ortagon, or Vantlar?

On 7/24/2023 at 3:53 PM, alder24 said:

It happened at the same time as Odium fought Ambition on Threnody, which was at the same time as Valor leaving the system. As soon as Valor left it happened (it doesn't mean he is responsible - it's unknown). Very early after the Shattering.

Is Valor canonically male in your version?

On 7/24/2023 at 3:53 PM, alder24 said:

Hmm, I was thinking more silvery but transparent. They aren't easy to spot.

I'd imagined for some reason that Valor's color would be orange, so I'd imagined them as amorphous orange light/mist that manifested a rudimentary animalistic form to attack things. Silver is interesting, as a color for them. Is that what you wanted Valor's color to be? What color is Valorium?

On 7/24/2023 at 3:53 PM, alder24 said:

Khriss: Unknown. Possible bigger Cognitive presence is what's appealing to them. Or maybe they used to be sapient and they're longing to recover it? Most people who encounter Spirits are killed by them, not bonded.

It's unfair that you can use Khriss as a RAFO equivalent (╥﹏╥). I'd have done that instead of racking my brain so hard to figure out the little inconsistencies if I knew it was an option 

On 7/24/2023 at 3:53 PM, alder24 said:

Oh boy. Names. My arch-nemesis. Let me think... Khriss: because of the unknown origin of humanity on Vantlar, it's unlikely that they came from Ortagon (as there was around a 1000 year long period of total inhospitality on Vantlar so they couldn't just switch to Vantlar). Therefore the early settlers arriving in the system would know only the rings and debris falling from the sky, and wouldn't know that something caused it to happen in the first place. Because of that native population doesn't have any name for the destruction of Ortagon, and scholars of Silverlight call it boringly "the destruction of Ortagon" sometimes adding "in the Vantlar system" for precision.

I'm gonna pull a Brando Sando fan and call it Detructagon.

On 7/24/2023 at 3:53 PM, alder24 said:

Legends, myths, religions, depictions in art, Cosmere Connection and perspective or some other Cosmere explanations. Or maybe they don't know, and that's why they called the pile of rocks a dragon? Or maybe there is a religion that worships the dragon on Vantlar?  

I can't tell if that's a hint of where they come from or not.

On 7/24/2023 at 3:53 PM, alder24 said:

Khriss: It's very likely there was a perpendicularity on Ortagon as it was inhabited by a Shard. There isn't any record of people from Ortagon escaping the moon. We must assume that everyone living on Ortagon was killed by its destruction and they had no time to even react to it.

RIP

On 7/24/2023 at 3:53 PM, alder24 said:

Less powerful than what Valorium can give them. Dor is liquid, less concentrated than a solid god metal. But you can have a jar of it, which would last for much longer than a single bead of Valorium.

No special effects based on having access to Unkeyed Investiture?

On 7/24/2023 at 3:53 PM, alder24 said:

Khriss: They look the same as they naturally look when they're unbonded, visible to everyone. Nobody tried to summon it as a Shardweapon, it's unknown if that's possible. But they're Splinters, Seons are Splinters too and can be made into Shardweapons, so maybe Spirits too? They are already partially acting like a Shardblade but this nature isn't well understood for now.

If they form as a Shardweapon, they would form as Valorium. Yet Valorium on its own doesn't cut like a Shardblade. Is the semi-sentience what makes a difference?

On 7/24/2023 at 3:53 PM, alder24 said:

Keep in mind, people living on Vantlar are technologically in Early Modern Period, with access to gunpowder and with the "pike and shot" tactic. To fight with Spirits they sometimes create Valorium bullets, which aren't very effective for obvious reasons, however they rely mostly on Valorium rapiers, sabers or even pikes - weapons commonly used in the Early Modern Period.

Would Valorium keep its shape well enough to form a rapier? What does a Valorium weapon attacking a Spirit look like?

On 7/24/2023 at 3:53 PM, alder24 said:

It's an equatorial ridge. This map is a Gott Projection - it shows only the northern hemisphere with the north pole at the center, ending on the equator, that's why the map looks like a circle. The Moonfall Ridge is on the equator. I didn't know a Gott projection before you asked, I thought it would be cool to make a map projection, similar to azimuthal equidistant projection that ends on the equator, not the south pole.

That's what I thought, thanks for confirming.

On 7/24/2023 at 3:53 PM, alder24 said:

Uff that was a lot. Good think you didn't nitpick "where is the ash-covered atmosphere"  

We're already handwaving the heat and ring decomposition, that's just part of what's necessary to allow for life.

Anyway, a few theories:

• Valor's special number is 7
• His color is silver
• Valor wasn't a coward. He didn't abandon Vantlar/Ortagon because he feared Odium or Ambition, but because the Invested Art that developed on Ortagon was so mind-numbingly destructive and/or powerful, possibly due to his Intent, that he decided that it couldn't be allowed to exist. He may have come to this conclusion either on his own or decided that it would stoke conflict once the other Shards learned of its existence, perhaps leading to a horrific loss of life and the destruction of many planets. This may or may not have been augmented by his Shardic future sight. The presence of two Shards, especially one that was going around murdering Shards and turning other Shards against them, in the neighbouring system may have exacerbated the issue. The Spirits and Valorium may or may not have been involved. Regardless, Valor destroyed Ortagon and killed everyone on it. He may have put measures in place to deal with the remains of Ortagon quickly, which is why the Equatorial Ridge formed so fast. Then, in his panic or haste (or through simple inexperience, since this was soon after the Shattering), he didn't bother pulling his Investiture out of Ortagon and Vantlar and instead just left the scene. The Spirits, now mindless and essentially dead-eyed, still try and bond other people, echoing the magic system they once granted access to that most likely cannot be accessed anymore. The magic system of Fearless was a side-effect, and maybe a weak, distorted echo of what the Ortagonian magic system was.
• I don't like that Valorium is basically the same as Venium. Not because you copied the idea off of me or anything, I just like it when things are clearly defined and distinct. A possible solution could be this: plants use Investiture as a substitute for light to grow. Maybe, as a precaution to ensure their self-perpetuation (as they are hell-bent on survival and seed dispersal), or even as just an evolutionary fluke, they also convert heat into Investiture. that way, these massive plants that do whatever they can to spread and survive can take care of decreasing the temperature of the environment. Maybe sailors on Vantlar frantically try to cultivate and grow these plants on board, letting them dangle their extremely long tendrils into the water to reduce the temperature in its vicinity? That leaves Valorium open to take on different properties.

6 hours ago, Firesong said:

I find Whimsy and Honor or Whimsy and Preservation to be an interesting combination, lack of control with complete order. 

Leniency, Indulgence, Tolerance, or Sympathy, maybe? Something that acknowledges rules or precepts, but allows for bending or breaking them in some way. Alternatively, this could be another one of the combinations like Preservation and Ruin, which are so opposed to one another that they end up not having a combined Intent, but rather one about balancing against each other. Just how Sazed can be Harmony or Discord depending on whether he's maintaining the equilibrium, Honor + Whimsy could be Balance/Imbalance, Order/Disorder, Equity/Inequity, Justice/Injustice, or something along those lines.

[Firesong she/her]

I am working on an idea for a Shardworld right now, I will probably be able to share it in a few days. Or tomorrow, depends on how much I can focus on it. 

[alder24]

11 hours ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

I think with the rings and depending on how the Ridge forms, you could feasibly say that they're entirely in the dark.

Possibly. Rings most likely would begin just above the atmosphere because debris is constantly falling down. 

11 hours ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

Does it have a specific place of formation, like the Atium Crystal-producing geodes? How did they survive the destruction of Ortagon? How do they form?

Unknown, whatever it was it still can work in space. So it just forms in the ground or rocks. I might have to think about it more.

11 hours ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

Dang it! I honestly thought you'd have prepared an explanation for that

Too much math that would only prove my world is unrealistic.

11 hours ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

Does that mean that the Perpendicularities move in the Cognitive Realm too?

Those in rings should move because they're in orbit. 

11 hours ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

Is that a "I'm not telling" or a "There's no answer"?

Khriss: Unknown (I'm leaving a room for expantion of this world if one day some new idea strkis me)

11 hours ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

Maybe Valor is dead too.

No, they're alive, Harmony confirmed it in his letter.

11 hours ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

The Siberian traps killed 80% of marine life because the eruptions continued for roughly 2 million years, during which time they'd be spewing ash and lava into the atmosphere and ocean, changing all sorts of environmental conditions, including the ozone layer, like you said. Not only that, raising the global water temperature to at minimum of 40 degrees C is a devastatingly huge amount. The last ice age, for comparison, only cooled global temperatures by 8 degrees. 40~< degrees isn't the highest ever seen in the geological record, by the way. The Permian-Triassic was the most devastating extinction event in the geological record, but the highest water temperature ever recorded is actually 85-90 degrees.

As I said in my original self-nitpicking, timescale doesn't work  

11 hours ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

I point it out because despite the heat, some life did survive on Vantlar, and the temperature has now decreased enough in areas that should have induced it to multiply. The level it's at right now is good enough if we were trying to be realistic, but if there's enough Investiture that a single plant can grow to encompass an entire mountain, the marine life would develop faster too. You could make all sorts of cool, heat-resistant alien fish using that, maybe ones that use Investiture.

Yes, there is room for improvement. Instead of filling every part of this world right away, I left some parts empty on purpose, because I knew I used my rations of invention and imagination for now.

But there is another problem with oceans - they would be acidic. Flood basalts produce a lot of CO2, this in combination with H2O produces acid - this is happening slowly on Earth right now, and Vantlar had thousands of years for oceans to become more acidic. Let's just say people don't fish too much in the open ocean for now.

11 hours ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

That section wasn't meant to be nitpicking, just things within your world that I was curious about.

Some of those things I didn't give much thought, mostly biology. 

11 hours ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

Did Valor create them, Ortagon, or Vantlar?

Khriss: Unknown. Me: No. I don't want it to be created. But Valor might have made some changes.

11 hours ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

Is Valor canonically male in your version?

No, I don't want to specify their gender, I was trying to always write they/them, but I still tend to write he/him as a gender-neutral pronoun.

11 hours ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

I'd imagined for some reason that Valor's color would be orange, so I'd imagined them as amorphous orange light/mist that manifested a rudimentary animalistic form to attack things. Silver is interesting, as a color for them. Is that what you wanted Valor's color to be? What color is Valorium?

Well orange is associated with bravery, but I don't like this color that much   But their shape is like you said. Somewhat leaning in my mind to have some spider legs, with sharp needle-like ends that poke their enemies (I hate spiders). But I think what's even better is that their shape can shift, no two Spirits looks alike, they take different but similar forms. 

Oh and Spirits have to touch the ground, they don't fly in the air.

I don't want to specify Valor's color. Valorium is silvery too. Like Atium and Lerasium, nothing special.

11 hours ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

It's unfair that you can use Khriss as a RAFO equivalent (╥﹏╥). I'd have done that instead of racking my brain so hard to figure out the little inconsistencies if I knew it was an option 

I have to somehow cover holes in my worldbuilding where I don't have ideas right now I'm leaving mysteries, secrets are more engaging and everyone can adapt this world for their liking in their minds 

11 hours ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

I'm gonna pull a Brando Sando fan and call it Detructagon.

The what? O.o

It sounds like a transformer's name

11 hours ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

I can't tell if that's a hint of where they come from or not.

Good, very good.

11 hours ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

No special effects based on having access to Unkeyed Investiture?

Oh good idea. Eyes glowing with fire of color of that investiture. Skin isn't rocky-like, nor metallic, but looks like liquid lava of liquid Dor's color, that flows around your body like lava flows on the surface, looking like it's emerging from your inside and spreading around like lava. Did I mention it looks like lava?  

11 hours ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

If they form as a Shardweapon, they would form as Valorium. Yet Valorium on its own doesn't cut like a Shardblade. Is the semi-sentience what makes a difference?

Yes, I believe sentience is needed for a Shardblade to cut, a simple god metal sword won't cut like a Shardblade. Spirits are at least self-aware, they can cut because of that.

11 hours ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

Would Valorium keep its shape well enough to form a rapier? What does a Valorium weapon attacking a Spirit look like?

Rapier weighs 1 kg, should be fine, if not it's a bit thicker or just a tip is from Valorium. Pikes to poke Spirits from the deck of ships, rapiers, sabers, some regular looking swords, nothing too complicated. 

11 hours ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

• Valor's special number is 7

Right, that's my canon  

11 hours ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

Valor wasn't a coward. He didn't abandon Vantlar/Ortagon because he feared Odium or Ambition, but because the Invested Art that developed on Ortagon was so mind-numbingly destructive and/or powerful, possibly due to his Intent, that he decided that it couldn't be allowed to exist. He may have come to this conclusion either on his own or decided that it would stoke conflict once the other Shards learned of its existence, perhaps leading to a horrific loss of life and the destruction of many planets. This may or may not have been augmented by his Shardic future sight. The presence of two Shards, especially one that was going around murdering Shards and turning other Shards against them, in the neighbouring system may have exacerbated the issue. The Spirits and Valorium may or may not have been involved. Regardless, Valor destroyed Ortagon and killed everyone on it. He may have put measures in place to deal with the remains of Ortagon quickly, which is why the Equatorial Ridge formed so fast. Then, in his panic or haste (or through simple inexperience, since this was soon after the Shattering), he didn't bother pulling his Investiture out of Ortagon and Vantlar and instead just left the scene. The Spirits, now mindless and essentially dead-eyed, still try and bond other people, echoing the magic system they once granted access to that most likely cannot be accessed anymore. The magic system of Fearless was a side-effect, and maybe a weak, distorted echo of what the Ortagonian magic system was.

Interesting theory. You see, secrets are fun  

11 hours ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

I don't like that Valorium is basically the same as Venium.

Me too. But I like how logically it works.

11 hours ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

A possible solution could be this: plants use Investiture as a substitute for light to grow. Maybe, as a precaution to ensure their self-perpetuation (as they are hell-bent on survival and seed dispersal), or even as just an evolutionary fluke, they also convert heat into Investiture. that way, these massive plants that do whatever they can to spread and survive can take care of decreasing the temperature of the environment. Maybe sailors on Vantlar frantically try to cultivate and grow these plants on board, letting them dangle their extremely long tendrils into the water to reduce the temperature in its vicinity? That leaves Valorium open to take on different properties.

Possible but impossible. For me the most concerning part is the immediate aftermath of the first 1000 years of the Heavy Late Bombardment-like period on Vantlar. There would be barely any plants surviving this and certainly not evolved to use investiture. And this is the period when the heat is the biggest problem. Because there were literal mountains worth of Valorium, it would significantly cool the planet down, so life could survive and evolve further on poles. 

And Valorium heat absorption has some interesting consequences - humans can't use it to create Spirit-proof armor, as those would cool their body too much, freezing them. They have to be vulnerable to their attacks (that's why I don't really want to give them aluminum). And it being always cold in touch is so cool in my opinion  

 

11 hours ago, Firesong said:

I am working on an idea for a Shardworld right now, I will probably be able to share it in a few days. Or tomorrow, depends on how much I can focus on it. 

Great. I'm looking forward to it  

 

[Firesong she/her]

Quote

Shard:

Quote

The Shard is a fusion of Devotion and Dominion, with some bits of Odium from when Odium attacked them and accidently left some parts of himself there, which suffused them. 

It manifests through a extremely forceful and tyrannical enforcement of worship and Devotion. Punishing any of those that are not properly Devoted (basically a mix of Dominion and Odium). The Vessel of this Shard is extremely violent and seeks expansion of its power through faith. 

It rewards those that are Devoted, both with direct rewards, and with a reward of a very deep euphoria (Odium). 

Overall, the fragments of Odium take the form of both passion and euphoria, and a hatred for anyone who falls short of their expectations. 

It was picked up by a major religious leader who began with good intentions, believing that they had to help lead mankind to greater wisdom and salvation. Due to Sel being too corrupted by war and hatred, they took their followers and anyone who would listen to another planet, this being Munsašagar, in order to start anew. However, over time, they became corrupted by the Shard and began to see themselves as the only true God, and became increasingly more violent and totalitarian. This corruption was not out of nowhere, as they always had issues of megalomania and dissatisfaction with how people didn't show them the respect that they thought they deserved.  They used to be a truly good person who just had a few vices that they didn't let control them, but very quickly had these vices exacerbated and made to consume them, turning them into a monster.  

They have manifested a massive tower of God Metal and crystal on the planet, which became a centre of devotion and worship to the people. Around the tower is the Perpendicularity. This tower is seen as a very good source of Investiture and God Metal. However, the Splinters are extremely protective of it and will kill anyone who tries to touch it, even moreso those that would try and take metal from it. (Not sure what the effect would be for a Devotion + Dominion + a bit of Odium Metal would do, you can give ideas, but just assume it is something very good and desirable) The protectiveness they have over the tower and the Perpendicularity also makes it very difficult to travel to and from the planet. 

They hate all other Shards in the cosmere, and have a wish to Splinter all of them. They, however, are debating between if they just want to kill them, or if they want to fuse together in order to become an even greater deity than before. 

Astronomy:

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It is one planet which is around 1.25992x Standard Cosmere size, with 1.114689927272x the gravity. It is around 60% water, and is made up of three primary continents. It is named Munsašagar. It is rather warm and humid on average, and is covered in forests and jungles. There are several large cave systems spread across the planet, many of which are interconnected. These cave systems are exploited by the people to gather various gems and precious metals. 

It is orbited by two moons which are tidally locked with the planet on directly opposite sides of the planet. These are almost geostationary, but have an orbit ever so slightly faster than the rotation of the planet. They are both very close to each other in size and mass, with one only being around 2.3 kilometres larger in radius. 

One moon is covered in iron oxide, giving it a red colour. This moon is known as Pešyammu

The other is green due to a layer of Chromium(III) oxide. It also has various large veins of cuprorivaite, giving a blue colour stretching across the moon. It has a somewhat higher albedo than that of the crimson moon. It is known as Pešyakalmin. It is around 2.3 kilometres larger than Pešyammu, the difference in size is not noticeable from the surface of the planet, and thus people assume they are the same size. 

There are eight other planets in the system. Culturally, each one is associated with one of the virtues of their god. Immutability, Mercy, Justice, Wisdom, Guidance, Radiance/Beauty, Goodness, and Immateriality. None of these other planets are habitable, with the only other planet inside the habitable zone, Mercy, lacks an atmosphere required for life. Evidence shows that it did, however, have an atmosphere and ecosystem some time in the relatively recent past, around 3,500 years ago. This planet was, in fact, the Shardworld of Mercy, the source of the planet's association with Mercy came from this. Mercy was Splintered there by the new Shard, and the atmosphere was stripped away. This was actually an accident, and they intended to inhabit the planet themselves. It was due to this that they inhabited Munsašagar instead. 

 

Splinters:

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There are two main types of Splinters on the planet, those with more Devotion than Dominion, and Vice Versa.

Devotion:

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The Devotion-focused ones travel around and reward those who properly worship the Shard, showing great amounts of love and devotion, and following their precepts. These are very kind to those that are deemed as proper worshippers, and can grant their wishes (rather small scale wishes, that is). They can grant food or money, heal you from incurable diseases, change your body to match your Cognitive Ideal, etc. 

They are known as the Su'aúrlimmu (sing) or Su'aúrlimmani (pl.). 

In shape, they are vaguely humanoid, but appear to be made out of light and not have the clearest of features, except for the eyes, which seem to glow even brighter than the rest of the body, looking into the eyes brings a sense of serenity and euphoria to those that are devoted, but one of shame to those that fall short. Like the moon of Devotion they are green with blue-marble-like patterns that cover them, and constantly shift and reform. If you focus, some of the patterns can appear vaguely like several geographic features, but it can be hard to make out. 

They are rather kind and respectful to whoever they approach, but they are quite dismissive and even aggressive to those that approach them that they deem unworthy. When upset like this, they appear to almost suck in light, but this state quickly passes. They also never act out in aggression in the form of verbal attacks or physical violence. They simply speak of how lowly they are and how they must turn their life around and turn to the Shard, lest they be punished. Even if they are directly attacked, they tend to not act out in violence, but just show even greater judgmental disappointment and sorrow. 

They have every right to turn down a wish if they deem it too immoral. 

They speak in a very musical and harmonious manner, to the rhythm of the Shard from which they were cut. When they give a blessing to you, you can hear the Pure Tone of the Shard. 

The Dominion aspect of them is in how they essentially control people by forcing them to be devoted to the Shard, and feel angry whenever someone does not properly obey. But, for Devotion, they obey those that properly obey them, by granting wishes and showing kindness.  

Dominion:

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The Dominion-focused ones punish those that are not devoted enough, typically through killing them. The people who live on the planet greatly fear these, always worrying that they would be chosen next.  But they respect their decisions as they believe that they are intelligent and make worthy and correct decisions in who they decide is not loyal enough. This leads them to not mourn the deaths of those killed by them, but consider the victims to have "deserved it". 

They are known as the Su'arakalmin (sing), or Su'arakalmani (pl.).

They appear black and red, and also appear humanoid like the Su'aúrlimmani, but their features are even harder to make out. That is, except for pure crimson eyes and a wide jaw full of jagged fangs, and their hands are less like hands, and more like weapons of mass destruction, with the fingers being like massive claws or knives. Looking into their eyes causes a deep sense of fear to all that see them, but the panic is even greater in those that are their targets. They seem to absorb and warp light around them. They have touches of a radiant golden colour which appears and disappears in various chaotic patterns.  

They are very aggressive and almost animalistic. They move quickly and hunt primarily and night. When they see a target, they let out an animalistic howl and quickly sprint towards them in order to kill them with their fangs and claws, attacking with such brutality that the result is barely recognizable as human. This destruction of the human form into something unrecognizable and base is meant as a commentary, expressing that their lack of devotion makes them something less than human. 

They can convert between physical and incorporeal at will. Thus they can interact physically, and can also pass through walls with ease, and also let weapons pass through their body. 

While they appear animalistic, they are rather intelligent and have their own civilization in the Cognitive realm. 

They appear every day, but are most notable when the respective moon is visible in the sky. When the red moon is visible, it is the Night of Dominion (Akalmin Hášal mušaa), when it is the green moon, it is the Day of Devotion (Ulimmu Išinu mušaa). 

Relationship between the two types of Splinters are tense, they both acknowledge how necessary each other are. But at the same time don't want to interact with one another. They thus make civilizations on the Subastrals of their respective moons. This is the reason for them appearing in largest numbers in areas their moon is over, as it makes them closest to the area in question, thus less of a distance to travel. 

Languages:

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There are only two primary language families on the planet, due to the relative age of mankind's arrival on the planet not allowing for the development of a large amount of primary families. 

The largest of the families is typically Ergative-Absolutive and VSO, with a tendency towards agglutination. This family itself is separated into two primary branches, which are each separated into four sub-families each, which are each split into eight languages. This makes for 56 languages in the family. The level of symmetry is very notable, and has been a point of much curiosity by linguists due to natural linguistic drift never producing such order and symmetry. It is theorized that there was some direct hand in the way the languages developed. 

The other family is organized in the same manner, with two primary branches, with four subfamilies, with eight languages each. 

Culture:

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Culture varies greatly all over the planet, but they all have rather similar views on various subjects due to the intervention of the Shard, and based on the cultural substratum left by their ancestors which migrated to the planet. 

They feel they must worship the Shard in a complex prayer ritual twice a day, and that twice a year they must go on a pilgrimage to the Tower. Which they must circumambulate 16 times clockwise, and 16 times counter-clockwise, all while uttering prayers. They must not touch the Perpendicularity or tower itself,  as they are all too unclean to be allowed to touch it. They must fast on the day of ritual, and must clean their body 16 times, purifying body and soul before they approach the most holy of grounds. 

The Greater Prayer ritual requires one clean their full body twice, and they must pray in the direction of the Tower, which they believe makes the prayer go to their God. It is like conduit which takes in the prayers, and sends them straight to their god. They show a degree of Realmatic-awareness, believing the Tower to be a part of the Shard's body. 

Lesser Prayer, that which one does without complex rituals, one does not need to wash twice for fully immure themselves, they only must wash their hands and arms, and their face for 16 seconds each. They also still must face the Tower when doing their prayer. It is suggested that one do several Lesser Prayers a day, beyond the two obligatory Greater Prayers. However, if one does an impure act before it (within seven days), such as contact with death, menstruation, childbirth, interacting with someone who was later slain by a Su'arakalmin, intercourse, or various things that I cannot exactly go into detail on here, (You can assume what I mean, and yes, they are rather strict and judgmental) one must do a full ritual purification before even a Lesser Prayer. 

They feel that the killings by the Su'arakalmani are not just necessary, but justified and morally good. They claim all those killed by them fully deserved it and were evil people. Those killed by them are remembered as evil people until they fade away from memory over time. When a criminal is apprehended, they are not locked in a normal prison, but are instead chained to a stake outside of city limits, to be given as a sacrifice to the Su'arakalmani. If they survive for 3 days, they are deemed as being chosen to survive by the Su'arakalmani, and thus are let go. 

They have developed various forms of guns, however, these are used primarily in hunting rather than combat, and thus they are modeled primarily for hunting. 

The Tower is used as the point-zero of their coordinate system, being the point at 0 degrees, thus it is on the equator and prime meridian. Many maps, especially more artistic and religious ones, are molded in order to show it as the centre of the world, think the Bunting Clover Leaf map. This comes from how they do truly think that it is the centre of the world, they further believe that it is the metaphysical centre of the universe as a whole (different from a physical centre). 

The leaders of nations must be chosen by the Shard and its Splinters, one not chosen by them, and one who is not fully devoted, is not allowed to rule. Due to them all working for the same entity, fighting between nations is actually very minimal. 

Inspirations:

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If you are wondering if I based a lot of the prayer rituals, and the circumambulation of the Tower, on Islamic Salat and the Kaaba, I did. I felt it was a good example of strong devotion, and felt that it would make sense in the world I created that they would see the Tower in a similar sort of light. The self-washing was based on things like Tevilah, Tsukubai, and Ghusl.

The language I heavily based upon Sumerian, as I like the feel of the language, and also didn't exactly feel like making my own phonetic inventory from the ground up. I know how to do it, I just felt it wouldn't be important as I am not building every language, so just making one with certain vibes works. 

The multiple coloured moons were mostly based on Lumar and Roshar. 

 

 

 

[alder24]

Nitpicking time (sorry)  

1 hour ago, Firesong said:

The Shard is a fusion of Devotion and Dominion, with some bits of Odium from when Odium attacked them and accidently left some parts of himself there, which suffused them. 

Odium hasn't left his power on Sel, but let's just say he visited Sel again once he got freed from Roshar or something.

What's the Shard's name? Hatred + Dominion + Devotion = ? Tyranny for Odium + Dominion alone, but with Devotion what about Abuse? I think it "nicely" combines all 3 intents of Shards.

Spoiler

sufficientlyadvanced

It says that it's dangerous to travel to Shadesmar on Sel. Why?

Brandon Sanderson

It has to do with the Dor and the lack of an entity controlling much of the power Odium left in his wake on Sel.

Phantine

Woah, that's interesting. I had no idea Odium left little bits of his power on Sel... I guess it kinda makes sense for evil monks to be powered by pure hate, though.

Brandon Sanderson

Odium did not leave his power behind, one should note. He left several other powers which are now, to a large extent, mindless...

Windrunner

If you wouldn't mind answering, does Roshar have a similar problem, with Honor being Splintered?

Brandon Sanderson

No, Roshar does not have the same problem. There are some differences going on. (One reason being that the spren are far more extensive on Roshar, and provide something of a "release valve." The seons and the skaze on Sel are not numerous enough to fulfill a similar function. Though, of course, that's only one part of the puzzle. Raw power is dangerous.

It's one reason everyone should be thankful Kelsier was around on Scadrial.

General Reddit 2013 (March 11, 2013)

 

1 hour ago, Firesong said:

Around the tower is the Perpendicularity.

Around as close by or literally a moat around the Tower is the perpendicularity? 

1 hour ago, Firesong said:

Not sure what the effect would be for a Devotion + Dominion + a bit of Odium Metal would do, you can give ideas, but just assume it is something very good and desirable

Just a thought that entered my mind quickly - because this Shard and world is focused on tyrannical zeal, how about something similar to extreme emotional allomancy when you burn it? When you burn it you can break into people around you and assume some kind of hemalurgic control over them, turning them into minions of yours, following you like you're a prophet (at least in terms of religious practice)? That's why it's desirable, but the Shard doesn't want to have any competition so he will hunt you down using Splinters. But I still haven't read more than the first section so I don't know how it fits with the rest.

1 hour ago, Firesong said:

It is one planet which is around 1.25992x Standard Cosmere size, with 1.114689927272x the gravity.

MATH! It the mass of your planet 1,77 Cosmere Standard with density of 4.88 g/cm^3?  

2 hours ago, Firesong said:

It is orbited by two moons which are tidally locked with the planet on directly opposite sides of the planet. These are almost geostationary, but have an orbit ever so slightly faster than the rotation of the planet. They are both very close to each other in size and mass, with one only being around 2.3 kilometres larger in radius. 

You can't just say "one is 2 km bigger" without giving us approximate sizes of those moons! Are they big and spherical like the Moon, or small and irregular like Phobos and Deimos of Mars? I was going to write a long explanation on why 2 big spherical moons are very unlikely to exist around a planet, especially on the same orbit, but the "2 km larger" made me think they're small and irregular. If that's the case then big plus for a planet with small non-spherical moons! If not, were those moons there before the Shard arrived?

2 hours ago, Firesong said:

It is around 2.3 kilometres larger than Pešyammu, the difference in size is not noticeable from the surface of the planet, and thus people assume they are the same size. 

Give me the sizes and I will calculate it and tell you if that's not noticeable (and the length of the day is needed for calculating the geostationary orbit)    

It's midnight and I'm getting excited over numbers.

2 hours ago, Firesong said:

Munsašagar

2 hours ago, Firesong said:

They are known as the Su'aúrlimmu (sing) or Su'aúrlimmani (pl.). 

2 hours ago, Firesong said:

They are known as the Su'arakalmin (sing), or Su'arakalmani (pl.).

I'm almost able to pronounce it. Almost. How do you pronounce "ú" and "š"? Is that Czech?

You're crazy. I'm struggling to come up with one name and you just spit out plural forms with patterns just it’s nothing. How do you people are so good with names? Mad respect.

2 hours ago, Firesong said:

When the red moon is visible, it is the Night of Dominion (Akalmin Hášal mušaa), when it is the green moon, it is the Day of Devotion (Ulimmu Išinu mušaa).

And there is more cool names.

But if the red moon has the Night, and green has the Day, does this mean that they only appear during night (red) and day (green)? That's not possible with a geostationary orbit, or an orbit that's a bit shorter than it. You would need to put them at L1 and L2 Lagrange points, but they are 1.5 mil km away from Earth. Or they both appear during both day and night but they just call it that way?

3 hours ago, Firesong said:

While they appear animalistic, they are rather intelligent and have their own civilization in the Cognitive realm. 

How are they behaving in their cities among themselves? What's the focus of their civilization (compared to spren from Roshar)? Are they open for visitors?

2 hours ago, Firesong said:

There are two main types of Splinters on the planet, those with more Devotion than Dominion, and Vice Versa.

Can one have his wishes granted by Su'aúrlimmu and deemed Devoted and still be killed by Su'arakalmin and deemed not Devoted enough at the same time?

Can you bond Su'aúrlimmu so it can grant wishes only to you? Can you bond Su'arakalmin?  

2 hours ago, Firesong said:

These are almost geostationary, but have an orbit ever so slightly faster than the rotation of the planet.

2 hours ago, Firesong said:

Relationship between the two types of Splinters are tense, they both acknowledge how necessary each other are. But at the same time don't want to interact with one another. They thus make civilizations on the Subastrals of their respective moons. This is the reason for them appearing in largest numbers in areas their moon is over, as it makes them closest to the area in question, thus less of a distance to travel. 

That means that the areas where Splinters are the most numerous are changing very slowly, staying almost the same for weeks or months. Or it's not that slightly faster, something like 1.1 revolution per 1 rotation.

2 hours ago, Firesong said:

They feel they must worship the Shard in a complex prayer ritual twice a day, and that twice a year they must go on a pilgrimage to the Tower. Which they must circumambulate 16 times clockwise, and 16 times counter-clockwise, all while uttering prayers. They must not touch the Perpendicularity or tower itself,  as they are all too unclean to be allowed to touch it. They must fast on the day of ritual, and must clean their body 16 times, purifying body and soul before they approach the most holy of grounds. 

The Greater Prayer ritual requires one clean their full body twice, and they must pray in the direction of the Tower, which they believe makes the prayer go to their God. It is like conduit which takes in the prayers, and sends them straight to their god. They show a degree of Realmatic-awareness, believing the Tower to be a part of the Shard's body. 

Lesser Prayer, that which one does without complex rituals, one does not need to wash twice for fully immure themselves, they only must wash their hands and arms, and their face for 16 seconds each. They also still must face the Tower when doing their prayer. It is suggested that one do several Lesser Prayers a day, beyond the two obligatory Greater Prayers. However, if one does an impure act before it (within seven days), such as contact with death, menstruation, childbirth, interacting with someone who was later slain by a Su'arakalmin, intercourse, or various things that I cannot exactly go into detail on here, (You can assume what I mean, and yes, they are rather strict and judgmental) one must do a full ritual purification before even a Lesser Prayer. 

Oh boy, that's complicated. Is the Greater Prayer the necessary ritual twice a day? And the Lesser Prayer isn't required at all or there is a number of Lesser Prayers you need to do a day? Are women basically doomed to sit in a bathtub all day? Is using a toilet also an impure act? Is pregnancy impure? What about medical procedures? Surgeries? Amputations? Contact with blood?

2 hours ago, Firesong said:

They have developed various forms of guns, however, these are used primarily in hunting rather than combat, and thus they are modeled primarily for hunting. 

Oooo, from what time period?  

2 hours ago, Firesong said:

The leaders of nations must be chosen by the Shard and its Splinters, one not chosen by them, and one who is not fully devoted, is not allowed to rule.

So is the Shard directly involved in the matters of this world? Are they communicating with his worshippers?

2 hours ago, Firesong said:

Due to them all working for the same entity, fighting between nations is actually very minimal. 

War is impure. No wonder they don't do it.

2 hours ago, Firesong said:

If you are wondering if I based a lot of the prayer rituals, and the circumambulation of the Tower, on Islamic Salat and the Kaaba, I did. I felt it was a good example of strong devotion, and felt that it would make sense in the world I created that they would see the Tower in a similar sort of light. The self-washing was based on things like Tevilah, Tsukubai, and Ghusl.

I knew it. That's so cool. You're definitely right, it fits so well.

2 hours ago, Firesong said:

The multiple coloured moons were mostly based on Lumar and Roshar. 

Somehow I've missed this... However I've immediately thought about Mars.

3 hours ago, Firesong said:

These cave systems are exploited by the people to gather various gems and precious metals. 

For what they're using those gems and metals? 

Do they build temples around the world or are they prohibited (because there is only one temple and that's the Tower, and nothing that humans can build can achieve the greatness of it or something like that)?

Are there some variations in religion? Some branches or different practices?

What about the ecosystem? Something unique or just Earth-like?

Except for wishes, is there any other magic system there?

 

I really like this world. Cool idea, sounds very fun. And the culture, religion and Splinters are so well developed and connected together. The names are also fun to pronounce.