Could Be Fire Posted June 13 Report Share Posted June 13 (edited) Overall timeline with a focus on planetary-level events, books, and the origins of immortals/world hoppers of cosmere-level relevance. I know there are some really cool spreadsheets out there but I thought a text-based list would more easily accept the “loosey-goosey” nature of some of the time points we have. Some years we have are exactly, but I rounded to the nears 500 for a broad overview. Also, the actual textual canon dates only really range from the Oathpact up to the events of Alloy of Law. To translate this to Shattering-based years I used an older WoB that said that Prelude of Stormlight Archive is roughly 6000 years post-shattering, and Sanderson admits that he’s not super certain of that number in that WoB. So the Shattering-Date years may be off but the relative relationships should be right (esp. between anything on Roshar and Scadrial). My main goals were to get a sense of scale, to figure out what events were happening roughly concurrently on different planets, and to try to nail down the best I could the ages/origins of the different immortals/world hoppers that we see. Based on the way secret projects are going I will def have to make major updates in July and December but that’s a problem for the future. Interesting things I noticed while putting this together: - The heralds and the fused are hella old, twice as closer to the shattering as they are to modern Roshar. - Timing Threnody is a nightmare. I just want to know if Nazh was born before or after Silence???? - Vashar and the OG Mistborn crew are roughly the same age if Warbreaker happened just before Stormlight Archive. - The events of Reod (and the other events of the Sel books) are happening roughly around the same time as the Lord Ruler’s Ascension —> Maybe King Irelon and Rashek coordinated on their evil empire with plantations schemes - Most planets (Sel, Nalthis, and Roshar) are implied to have a more general cosmere knowledge earlier in their history that was lost from a massive event (The Reod, Manywar, and Recreance respectively). Probably a Doylist choice on Sanderson’s part since the characters in the earlier books need to not be too cosmere aware - When Brandon has to choose a time point he seems to default to 300 years - Someone should check back in with Brandon about the Shattering relationship to the Mistborn/Stormlight events. We only have one WoB from like a decade ago that I could find. ~YEAR -3,000 to -2,000 Roshar was created by Adolusium YEAR ZERO Shattering Origins: Hoid, Frost, all of the OG 16 Vessels Dawnshards present on Yolen Used as part of the Shattering, and everything else involved (the 16, Hoid, and Ado) were all present implying they were there as well. SHORTLY AFTER YEAR ZERO ~Devotion/Dominion invest in Sel~ ~??~ Honor/Cultivation Invest in Roshar ~??~ More WOBs about the Shard Pact/Agreement imply that the main rule was that they would respect each other's territory and that sharing the planet was okay if both shards agreed. Therefore Ruin/Preservation, Devotion/Dominion, and Honor/Cultivation could have immediately paired off. ~??~ Scadrial Created ~??~ EARLIEST ~???~ Nalthis Created ~???~ EARLIEST Scadrial was made entirely by Ruin/Preservation per Arcanum. Nalthian humans were Shard created per WOB (why their magic is also vaguely hereditary), and in RoW Vashar says that Nalthis is too you to have fossils (which on Earth take ~10,000 years to form) suggesting the planet itself was also created wholesale. ~Devotion/Dominion are Splintered by Odium, Autonomy Involved~ All implied to happen fairly shortly after the Shattering. Bravadin says Aona/Skai violated the pact from “the very beginning” suggesting it happens very early. What exactly they did to violate the pact is unclear. Wasn't immediate thought as according to Khriss Arcanum's notes Devotion/Dominion had to time get a reputation as relatively hands-off on their planet and to influence language development on Sel, but all occurs in Selish prehistory. ~Ambition is attacked by Odium in the Threnody System, Mercy Present~ ~Ambition is Splintered~ Per WOB, Ambition was at the top of Odium's hit list but he was only able to find them after everything with Devotion/Dominion. NOT SO SHORTLY AFTER YEAR ZERO ~???~ Founding of the Ire ~???~ As per WOB one of the oldest cosmere organizations. Could be founded anytime after Elantrians are first created, which is anytime after Devotion/Dominion are shattered. Brandon is very cagey about how old they are but the evidence (physical age of the members seen despite being semi-immortal Elantrians, lake in Sel possibly named after one of the leaders, the sheer depth of presence across the cosmere) suggest they are very, very old. ~??~ Silverlight founded ~??~ Like Ire, one of the oldest institutions in the cosmere. Could have been founded anytime from pre-Shattering up to sometime after White Sand (as Khriss is the founder of one of the universities). Currently roughly placed around the Ashynite era since it’s the only other time we see large-scale colonization across planets/planes in the cosmere but ¯\_(:/)_/¯. Might postdate the Ashyln exodus though? In order to explain why the Ashylnites went to Roshar instead of Silverlight, which as a cosmere-aware human city would presumably be more open to a bunch of human refugees??? But that’s heavy speculation. ~??~ Events on Therondy ~??~ EARLIEST The possible earliest time point based on the fact that the situation on Threnody was caused by Ambition’s fight with Odium, is unlikely based on Sanderson's comments. ~YEAR 3,500 ~?~ Odium arrives in Ashyn ~?~ Odium influences the Ashyn humans but does not fully settle or invest in the planet (WoB), implying he was not there long before the exodus. ~?~ Dawnshard(s) present on Ashyn ~?~ Involved in the destruction of the planet that lead to the exodus. May have arrived before or after Odium. Exodus from Ashyn Odium settles in Roshar Origins: Heralds Odium asks for permission from Honor/Cultivation to settle on Roshar (WoB). Follows the humans and was instrumental in coming along with them but was forced to come by them. First Desolation and Oathpact Founded on Roshar Canonically comments from multiple sources (Herald and Fused) in Stormlight put the first Desolation around 7000 years prior to Stormlight Archive era Roshar. Within one lifetime of the Exodus, as the Heralds were born on Ashyln and are adults at the founding of the Oathpact. Probably around 20-40 years post-Exodus as Rabionial is too young to remember their arrival but is an adult with a daughter at the First Desolation. Around 30 years would also match Shalash’s apparent age and her being born either right before or right after the exodus. ~?~ Iriali Arrive on Roshar (4th World) ~?~ WOB is that the Iriali arrived separately from the Ashynites. Iri was one of the Silver Kingdoms so they predate the Recreance. The exact timing with the Ashynite arrival is unclear, could be before/during/after. ~YEAR 6,000 Breaking of the Oathpact on Roshar Canonically set 5000 years (4500 Rosharan years) before Stormlight Archive modern era. Approximately 6000 years post-shattering per an older WOB. **Roshar decline in general cosmere awareness starts with loss of the Heraldic influence, but really hits later at the Recreance. ~YEAR 8,500 ~??~ Scadrial Created ~??~ LATEST Unclear how long Scadrial existed before LRs ascension. The Well refills every millennium so even if Ruin was trapped immediately after forming the world and LR was the first person to ascend then Scadrial predates his ascension by at minimum 1024 years. Very possible that Lord Ruler is not the first person to ascend. Kriss’s phrasing in Arcanum (“periodically through Scadrial’s history, a man or woman gained access to vast amounts of power” and “despite these repeated cataclysms”) suggests this to me. Also, Ruin says a thousand years is not a long time to wait to Vin in HoA which would be more understandable if he had been waiting for multiple 1,000-year cycles before that instead of just one. ~Year 9,000 ~?~ CHANGE Dawnshard present on Roshar ~?~ LATEST Moved through Cultivations perpendicularity to Anima before the Recreance. Earliest time point is hard to say, only that it is post-Cultivation's arrival. If one of the Dawnshard's involved in Ashyln's destruction it's unknown if it was moved elsewhere between Ashyln in Roshar. If not involved in Ashyln, could have been moving to Roshar prior to human colonization. Day of Recreance on Roshar Canonically based on in-universe comments in the Stormlight Archive, happened around 2,000 years before the Rosharan modern era. **Development of the cultures we know on Roshar (Vorinism, Shin Isolationism, etc.) with the loss of the unifying power of the KR ~??~ WHITE SAND ~??~ Origins: Khriss Technically could happen anytime between Devotion/Dominion Splintering (Since Khriss wasn’t able to visit Sel before it) and the Catacendre on Mistborn (the first time we see Khriss off-world). Very confusing currently about the timing with Elantris. Some comments (From Peter) suggest it may take place post-Elantris but WOB is that White Sand is one of the “very earliest”. Tenetivly placed after the Recreance as Khriss’s arcanum notes in RoW about surge binding seem to suggest she doesn’t have any information from the earlier KRs. ~??~ SHADOWS FOR SILENCE IN THE FORESTS OF HELL ~??~ Origins: Nazh There are two major sets of events we know about on Threnody. - Forescouts explore Forests of Hell —> Evil Rises —> Exodus from Homeland —> Events of Shadows for Silence - Nazh is born and becomes a world-hopper Technically could be as early as right after Ambition and Odium’s fight but Sanderson said at one point that Shadows for Silence is in the “[Paraphrased]In the latter half of things, but before the Stormlight Archive.” so it’s here instead. The temporal relationship between Nazh and Silence is pretty unclear. Nazh says becoming a cognitive shadow is an “important rite…with requirements and traditions” and has a gun that can literally fire Shades. This is very distinct from everything we see about Threnody from Silence which suggests he is from a different culture. My best guess is a couple of centuries after her. Since the Shadows for Silence sequel is supposed to cover a group trying to retake the Homeland and act some kind of lead-in for a later Silverlight book it’s possible that Threnodites get a better handle on the Shade/Evil situation post-Silence leading to whatever culture Nazh is from. Very speculative but ¯\_(:/)_/¯ ~???~ Founding of the Ire ~???~ LATEST Per WOB they Ire weathered the Reod off Sel so the organization itself must pre-date it. ~?~ The Reod on Sel ~?~ 10 years pre-Elantris. **General loss of cosmere-awareness in Central Sel (location of one of the two perpendicularities) with loss of Elantrians ~?~ ELANTRIS and EMPEROR’s SOUL ~?~ EARLIEST Origins: Galladon and Mai WOB that Elantris is somewhere around a couple hundred or maybe a little over a thousand years per Mistborn (“It's not thousands”). Could have happened concurrently or sometime shortly after the LR’s Ascension, the timeline is unclear. WOB that Emperor’s Soul happens shortly after Elantris ~YEAR 9,500 Lord Ruler Ascends, end of Classical-Era Scadrial Origins: Tensoon (~9,500), Melaan (~9,700), Ulaam (unknown before 10,000) Canonically 1024 years before Mistborn Era 1 so ~1300 years before Stormlight Archive and Mistborn Era 2. Therefore a little over ~2000 after the breaking of the Oathpact and several hundred years after the Recreance. ~??~ ELANTRIS/EMPEROR’s SOUL ~??~ LATEST If “it’s not thousands” means hundreds instead of between one to two thousand years ~???~ Nalthis Created ~???~ LATEST Civilization existed on other Nalthian landmasses before the Return of Vo ~?~ The Return of Vo and Discovery of Awakening on Nalthis ~?~ Canonically 300-400 years before the Manywar, and therefore about 600 years before the events of Warbreaker. ~???~ Ire Fortress Founded in Scandrial Subastral ~???~ Origins: Riina????? Latest timepoint, as they are well-established there as of Secret History. As with all Ire stuff timing is very unclear and likely much earlier. Riina's age is hard to say with Elantrian aging, time dilation, and other stuff. Riino became Elantrian during the Hoed and looked very old at year 10,000 in Stormlight Archive. All the Elantrians in the Ire group at year 10,000 in the Scandrial look ancient according to Kelsier, including Riina, but that may be lack of Dor related. Riina instead looks middle-aged much further in the timeline than that. ~YEAR 10,500 Manywar on Nalthis Origins: Vashar, Nightblood 300 years pre-Warbringer. Maybe slightly before or after Mistborn Era 1 depending on the length of gap between Warbreaker and the events of Stormlight. MISTBORN (FIRST ERA) Origins: Kelsier, Marsh, Demoux, Sazed, etc. Hard placed at about 300 years before Era 2. ~??~ First transfer of a Shard to a new Vessel (not one of the OG 16) ~??~ Preservation from Leras —> (Kel) —> Vin and Preservation/Ruin from Vin/Ati —> Sazed. All previous known Shards either have the same vessel up to this point or were shattered with their vessel’s death. Repeated by Taravangian around 300 years later when he takes Odium from Rayse. Major implications for the cosmere past this point, very unclear how much was known about the concept earlier. ~?~ Ghostbloods Founded ~?~ Assuming Kelsier isn't lying to Marasi, he founded the Ghostbloods so it must happen sometime after he is killed. ~YEAR 11,000 WARBEAKER Origin: Vivenna WOB is that Warbreaker is between Era 1 and Era 2 Mistborn. Vivenna appears to be around 30 in Stormight Archive, so Warbreak is at least a decade before Stormlight Archive. Considering Vivenna’s returned descent and heightening her aging may not be the timing exactly so maybe a couple of decades earlier. STORMLIGHT ARCHIVE (1-5) Canonically 4500 years after the Breaking of the Oathpact as per the framing of Stormlight Archive, and 7000 years after the Oathpact founded Origins: Mraize? Whoever else becomes immortal/world-hopper in the next six books? MISTBORN (SECOND ERA) 341 years after Mistborn Era 1. The Lost Metal clearly set after Stormlight 5 based on textual events and WoB is that Era 2 is set in the gap between Stormlight 5 and 6. ~??~ Iriali Arrive on Scadrial (5th?? World) ~??~ Very speculative based on some comments about “golden-haired fairy people” in Mistborn Era 2 STORMLIGHT ARCHIVE (6-10) Based on Sanderson's comments 10-15 years after Stormlight 5, and following Mistborn Era 2. SOMETIME AFTER YEAR 10,500 Cosmere-wide Space Age Sometime after Mistborn Era two and before Sixth of the Dusk. SIXTH OF THE DUSK Post-space age as First of the Sun is actively being colonized/courted by people implied to have originated from Scadrial (and possibly Roshar). Per WoB occurs very late in the cosmere timeline. Edited June 13 by Could Be Fire Correctness updates based on comments. 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therunner Posted June 13 Report Share Posted June 13 Very cool! One question, where does this come from? Quote 1 hour ago, Could Be Fire said: MISTBORN (SECOND ERA) 300 years after Mistborn Era 1. The Lost Metal is set just after Knights of Wind and Truth per Brandon and evidenced by the presence of Rosharan refugees on Scadrial. Because as far as I know, WoBs say that the entire Era 2 happens in the gap between the two SA series. So if anything, it should be AoL that happens after KoWT, not TLM. Additionally, in TLM we see most likely Iriali, who travel periodically, not necessarily suggesting refugees. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Could Be Fire Posted June 13 Author Report Share Posted June 13 18 minutes ago, therunner said: Very cool! One question, where does this come from? Because as far as I know, WoBs say that the entire Era 2 happens in the gap between the two SA series. So if anything, it should be AoL that happens after KoWT, not TLM. Additionally, in TLM we see most likely Iriali, who travel periodically, not necessarily suggesting refugees. It's not just the Iriali who pop up in TLM, but you are right about them, that's why I added Scadrial as the Irali's 5th spot on the Long Tail. Wayne finds Chouta in the slums of Bilming which suggests Hezradzians have made their way over. Melaan also makes her way across the Shadesmar to a bunch of "lost" people with "strange red hair" which I saw as the Horneaters. I called TLM specifically as being post KWT because it's the only one with like textual canon evidence but you def could be right about all of Era 2. I know there are some WoBs about it, but Sanderson is always super cagey about his timeline WoB being official canon. Canonic, in-text timing with Era 2 and Stormlight Gap is tricky. Era 2 itself spans ~8ish years (with 1 year between AoL and SoS, 6 months between SoS and BoM, and six years btwn BoM and AoL). Also, Melaan sees the Horneater people/refugees 18 months after the end of TLM (so like 10 years after Era 2 starts) but Harmony knew enough about there to know he had to send her at the very start of TLM. The last WoB about the Stormlight Gap I saw is that it is 10-15 years? So it's def possible the 10-year span of Era 2 will match perfectly with the Stormlight Gap and when we pick up with the Horneaters in Stormlight 6 it will be shortly after Melaan joined them. 10 vs 15 years makes a big difference when we have characters like Gavinor and Oroden so it'll be interesting to see what it ends up actually being. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therunner Posted June 13 Report Share Posted June 13 1 hour ago, Could Be Fire said: It's not just the Iriali who pop up in TLM, but you are right about them, that's why I added Scadrial as the Irali's 5th spot on the Long Tail. Wayne finds Chouta in the slums of Bilming which suggests Hezradzians have made their way over. Melaan also makes her way across the Shadesmar to a bunch of "lost" people with "strange red hair" which I saw as the Horneaters. Chouta seems to have been becoming quite endemic 'fast food' even outside Herdazian circles by RoW, so it is plausible it could be just piece of culture Iriali brought with them. But then again, it does not have to be. Quote I called TLM specifically as being post KWT because it's the only one with like textual canon evidence but you def could be right about all of Era 2. I know there are some WoBs about it, but Sanderson is always super cagey about his timeline WoB being official canon. Fair enough Though he has been consistent on Era 2 entirely happening in the SA gap for ~8ish years by now, confirming it as recently as 7 months ago (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/508/#e15877). This then implies that the events that possibly stranded some Horneaters in Shadesmar should be much more recent, since very few would stay 'lost' for nearly a decade. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alder24 Posted June 13 Report Share Posted June 13 10 hours ago, Could Be Fire said: SHORTLY AFTER YEAR ZERO ~Devotion/Dominion invest in Sel~ ~Ambition is attacked by Odium in the Threnody System~ ~Ambition is Splintered~ ~Devotion/Dominion are Splintered by Odium~ Just a nitpick, Ambition escapes in Threnody, in the meantime Odium went to Sel and Splinter Aona and Skai, then he found Ambition and finished her. Or even Ambition was attacked in Threnody system after Devotion and Dominion was Splintered. WoB: Spoiler Argent Some of the few Shards Rayse Splintered included Ambition, I believe, Dominion, and Devotion. Brandon Sanderson Yes. Argent And those were all way back, in the history. So, we know that the Shards' personalities overrides the Vessel's personality over time? Brandon Sanderson Strongly influence, and depending on the individual, override. Argent Okay. So did Rayse choose those Shards because-- Brandon Sanderson He went after Ambition first, but didn't find Ambition until after going after Devotion and Dominion. But Ambition was number one on his hit list. Argent Was it because of the Shard or because of the Vessel? Like did he hate the person? Brandon Sanderson In this case it was the Shard, primarily, that drove him-- Argent Oh, he was maybe afraid the Shard would grow too powerful and take over-- Brandon Sanderson He was afraid that this Shard that would rival him. And so he's like "This one is number one on the hit list. We're taking down Ambition." But then he got trapped in the Rosharan system. Arcanum Unbounded Chicago signing (Dec. 6, 2016) 10 hours ago, Could Be Fire said: NOT SO SHORTLY AFTER YEAR ZERO ~???~ Nalthis Created ~???~ EARLIEST TIMEPOINT RoW (year 10,500) Zahel says Nalthis is too new to have fossils. On Earth, fossils take ~10,000 years to form. Possibly much, much later (up to around year 6000-ish). Another hint that Nalthis was created after the Shattering is in this WoB: Spoiler Questioner Is there like a Cosmere-significant reason why, on Scadrial, the Investiture is hereditary, but that that doesn't really seem to be the case on any of the other worlds? Brandon Sanderson Yes there is, but it has to do more with the fact that on Scadrial, human beings were directly created by Ruin and Preservation. And most of the Cosmere worlds you've seen don't have that same sort of aspect. It is the case on Nalthis, but it's not the case on Roshar, it's not the case on Taldain, it's not the case on Sel. And so because of that instance, that's how I'm kind of working, that changed the way people interact with magic directly. But there is some wiggle room there for me. But that's your answer, that's the actual... there's.. I'm not hiding anything there, there is wiggle room. What I'm saying is don't extrapolate that that has to happen every time that the Shards were directly involved in the creation... JordanCon 2021 (July 16, 2021) 10 hours ago, Could Be Fire said: Honor/Cultivation Invest in Roshar Same comments on di-shardic planets Odium invests in Ashyn Based on my understanding of the Rosharan system dynamics as of RoW Odium goes to Ashyn before following the humans to Roshar. Roughly putting Honor/Cultivation’s involvement in the Rosharan system before Odium’s since it would make sense that he would start setting up to attack them only after they joined forces (and became a threat). Yes, Odium came to Roshar after Honor and Cultivation already settled there and he even got their permission to settle there too. Spoiler Hoidonalsium What was the order of the Shards coming to Roshar and changing allegiances? Did humans come with Odium? Brandon Sanderson So... you're talking about on Roshar specifically? So, Odium had visited Roshar. The humans gave him more of an ear... The Dawnsingers would have considered him the god of the people who had come, but-- I mean, it wasn't like they necessarily brought him. He was capable of getting around before that. I mean, he did kinda come along with them, he was instrumental in what happened there. Hoidonalsium Okay, but he was separate, and after Honor and Cultivation had really settled there? Brandon Sanderson Yes, he was after Honor and Cultivation had settled. Oathbringer Glasgow signing (Dec. 2, 2017) Spoiler Questioner It’s really heavily implied in the first Oathbringer letter that the Shards made a pact not to settle near each other. Given that a full half of the Shards ended up doing that, what is the cost for them breaking that oath? You implied earlier that there’s always a cost for Hoid, for taking his protections. Brandon Sanderson The wording of those things allows them to agree together, but it also gives them a little bit of power over one another, and you’ve seen the side effects of that on the planets where it’s happened. It has not gone well for any of them, if you kind of run the numbers on that. But the wording of it allows two, later on, to say, "Okay, we both agree." (If one said no and one said yes, then they were in trouble.) This should imply to you that Odium did get permission, as well. Dragonsteel 2022 (Nov. 14, 2022) 10 hours ago, Could Be Fire said: ~YEAR 3,500 ~?~ Iriali Arrive on Roshar (4th World) ~?~ WOB is that the Iriali arrived separately from the Ashynites. Iri was one of the Silver Kingdoms so they predate the Recreance (and likely the Breaking of the Oathpact). The timing of the Iri arrival with the First Desolation is hard to guess. Could have arrived separately at the same time? The Iri landmass is also pretty separated from the rest of Roshar by the purelake so they also could have arrived before the Ashynites under the same deal from Honor (don’t mess with Singers). Arriving after the Oathpact is possible, but it would be a weird choice to mass immigrate to a world currently having a world-destroying war between the natives and the last batch of immigrants. I think they arrived after Ashynites were already there and maybe after a few Desolations. They need to arrive after Ashynites for them to be the first humans on Roshar, to be Rhythmless etc. I don't find it weird, that they would choose a word with devastating wars happening, they worldhop because of religious reasons, that's enough to convince them to go to Roshar. 10 hours ago, Could Be Fire said: ~YEAR 6,000 Breaking of the Oathpact on Roshar Canonically set 4500 years before Stormlight Archive modern era. Approximately 6000 years post-shattering per an older WOB. **Roshar decline in general cosmere awareness starts with loss of the Heraldic influence, but really hits later at the Recreance. Nitpick: 1 Rosharan year is equal to 1.1 Earth years, Aharietiam would be around 5000 standard years before WoK. I have no doubt Brandon would do that math - he included this for a reason Spoiler Peter Ahlstrom Dalinar is 53 in Way of Kings. Navani is a few months older than him. Sadeas is 3 years younger than him. Note that these are Rosharan ages. A Rosharan year is 1.1 Earth years. General Reddit 2017 (Sept. 21, 2017) 10 hours ago, Could Be Fire said: **Halladran loss of general cosmere awareness? More speculative than the other losses but the Halladran was implied to be the center of Nalthis comsere-concention as the location of its only perpendicularity. There’s a clear lack of knowledge and focus on research in that region during Warbreaker, and no major magical advances since the Manywar. Clearly, some trade sects maintain since we see Nalthians and their devices across the cosmere but still. I don't think they ever lost their Cosmere awareness. It just wasn't as common as you think. Even during Warbreaker, there are customs on traveling off world, they keep people with Breaths from leaving Nalthis and there are some tariffs to pay. There clearly is detailed Cosmere awareness, much greater than in other places. But it just isn't widespread, and likely never was. Spoiler Lotus If one was worldhopping to Nalthis, what type of customs would they have to go through? Brandon Sanderson *Laughs* Nalthis customs? There'll be some tariffs to pay depending on what's going on. It is kind of not that different from what you would imagine. What I have read about in sort of Renaissance times, like pay your fees and things like that. But there's not really something you have to worry about... quarantines because of the disease factor, it's just not on their radar for the reasons I've explained. They don't have to worry about that. Like, dangerous items, what sort of dangerous items are you talking about, right? I do think they try to prevent people with Breaths from leaving the planet, particularly lots of them. Getting off I would say is a little more tricky because they do not want the Breath bleed of Investiture leaving their planet, but I think you will find some notable examples of it happening, so. They are not impossible to dodge, those customs. Footnote: The "reasons I've explained" that Brandon mentions is referring to this WoB. YouTube Spoiler Stream 2 (June 3, 2021) 10 hours ago, Could Be Fire said: MISTBORN (SECOND ERA) 300 years after Mistborn Era 1. The Lost Metal is set just after Knights of Wind and Truth per Brandon and evidenced by the presence of Rosharan refugees on Scadrial. Nitpicking again. AoL takes place 341 years after Catacendre. I think you should include the founding of Ghostblood too - they play a major role across Cosmere. We don’t know when they were founded, but this can be just placed after Catacendre. Overall this is great. Fantastic work. It's very clear and covers almost everything we know. Thanks for doing that. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Could Be Fire Posted June 13 Author Report Share Posted June 13 2 hours ago, alder24 said: Overall this is great. Fantastic work. It's very clear and covers almost everything we know. Thanks for doing that. Thanks so much, these are all really good catches!! If you are okay with it, I’ll edit the main timeline post to make the corrections and add in the extra evidence you found. I’ll make sure it’s all credited, I just figured it would be nice to have that one post be as correct as possible. For the Ambition stuff, it’s clear from the WOB you found that Ambition is splintered after Devotion/Dominion is splintered but I’m still not super sure where to put the Threnody fight. The phrasing to me suggests to me that Odium wasn’t able to do anything with Ambition (including the Threnody fight) until after all the stuff on Sel. What do you think? That Nalthis WoB is very interesting. It makes complete sense with the hereditary magic too, I totally should have thought of that. This means I have to get rid of my speculating about Endowement’s arrival being later than. The Odium settlement WoB is helpful, there’s so much in-universe hearsay about that time period that it’s hard to make calls based on what’s “canon” now. It’s nice to get it confirmed. The whole pact thing is still very confusing to me. That WoB you found implies that it wasn’t that you couldn't have multi-shard planets but just that Shards had to respect each other’s territory. Honestly, it makes me think that the issue with Devotion/Dominion wasn’t that they were together but that they somehow encroached on another Shard’s (Odium’s) territory??? Like it’s pretty clear most of the Vessels think Aona/Skai did something wrong, but I don’t understand what they did that Honor/Cultivation didn’t. Any thoughts? You’ve convinced me on the Iriali arrival, esp. because there’s a big time gap between Exodus and the Silver Kingdoms that they could pop up in, I’ll move it after the Oathpact founding. You’re right about the math, I’ll update the post-Aharietiam dates to reflect a 5000-year gap instead and fix it up to 341 years between era 1 and era 2. For the Ghostbloods, I’ll plug them in after the Catacendre. I am thinking I should add in some of rough Dawnshard locations we have. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alder24 Posted June 13 Report Share Posted June 13 25 minutes ago, Could Be Fire said: Thanks so much, these are all really good catches!! If you are okay with it, I’ll edit the main timeline post to make the corrections and add in the extra evidence you found. I’ll make sure it’s all credited, I just figured it would be nice to have that one post be as correct as possible. Feel free to add it. No need for any credit. I agree, everything should be in one post at the beginning. 26 minutes ago, Could Be Fire said: For the Ambition stuff, it’s clear from the WOB you found that Ambition is splintered after Devotion/Dominion is splintered but I’m still not super sure where to put the Threnody fight. The phrasing to me suggests to me that Odium wasn’t able to do anything with Ambition (including the Threnody fight) until after all the stuff on Sel. What do you think? I'm not sure either. Both options sound equally likely to me. We have only one WoB on that unfortunately. Also, per Harmony's letter in RoW, Mercy fought in Threnody too - we don't know on which side. 32 minutes ago, Could Be Fire said: The Odium settlement WoB is helpful, there’s so much in-universe hearsay about that time period that it’s hard to make calls based on what’s “canon” now. It’s nice to get it confirmed. The whole pact thing is still very confusing to me. That WoB you found implies that it wasn’t that you couldn't have multi-shard planets but just that Shards had to respect each other’s territory. Honestly, it makes me think that the issue with Devotion/Dominion wasn’t that they were together but that they somehow encroached on another Shard’s (Odium’s) territory??? Like it’s pretty clear most of the Vessels think Aona/Skai did something wrong, but I don’t understand what they did that Honor/Cultivation didn’t. Any thoughts? More WoBs on this. The agreement Shards made about settling alone wasn't an Oath, they didn't know that they needed Oath to bind Shards when they were making it. This left them a little wiggle room, and this meant that if they both agreed, they could settle together. But in the same way Odium could argue and justify his attacks by saying they had broken their agreement, and as seen on Sel, it worked. Perception is likely important. Plus Autonomy was involved in some way with Splintening Aona and Skai - how much we don't know. There is likely more to it than just it, like what is the difference between Sel and Roshar? But we know Odium didn't settle on Sel, he didn't settle on Roshar for a long time after his imprisonment too. Now Roshar is the first word Odium settles in. Spoiler Nameless36 All the Shards basically agreed not to settle on the same planet. Six of them - that we know of - immediately, basically broke that. Brandon Sanderson So... they did not make an oath to it. There was a suggestion made... and perhaps the people who made the suggestion did not understand that, if you want the Shards to do something, you need an actual Oath. And they did not get one. Tel Aviv Signing (Oct. 18, 2019) Spoiler Paladin Brewer Out of all the Shards, why does Odium go for Devotion and Dominion? Brandon Sanderson He targets people with two kinds of ideas. Number one, he can argue they're breaking the rules they set out. And two, people he thinks are a good match for him, or a challenge, or a danger. Oathbringer Houston signing (Nov. 18, 2017) Spoiler Khyrindor Odium seems to have a bad track record when it comes to killing Shards. He was wounded versus Ambition, and he's trapped on Roshar. Yet, he's credited in killing Devotion and Dominion. My question is: was Autonomy significantly involved and would Odium have been able to do it on his own and still be okay to-- Brandon Sanderson RAFO. It is dangerous to attack a Shard with one Shard. Let's say that. And a wise Shard would try to avoid that confrontation unless there are specific reasons they think they would have an advantage. Skyward Seattle signing (Nov. 10, 2018) Spoiler Moridin997 (paraphrased) Did Bavadin in any way help Odium splinter Dominion and Devotion? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) Uhh... Moridin997 (paraphrased) (sensing an incoming RAFO): In any way... Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) Uhh... Yes... Yes, you could say that... Lisbon signing (Nov. 7, 2016) Spoiler Mason Wheeler One of the Letters in Oathbringer suggests that the Shards had a pact to all go their separate ways. And some of them held to it and some of them didn't? Brandon Sanderson Yes. Mason Wheeler Out of all of them, how is it possible that one of the ones that didn't is the one whose nature is to obsessively keep your word at all costs? Brandon Sanderson He would argue that he kept his word. Mason Wheeler Okay, so loophole. Brandon Sanderson He wouldn't even call it a loophole. Legion Release Party (Sept. 19, 2018) Spoiler Questioner When one of the shards, like Odium, move from world to world in the cosmere, does their presence, like the metals they leave behind and their magic, leave with them? Brandon Sanderson Odium never really settled on a planet. He is now settled on Roshar and his magic has permeated things. Leaving would be very difficult for him. It would either involve leaving behind some of his power or ripping that out, which would be a difficult process. So yes it is very tough to leave. Phoenix Comicon 2013 (May 24, 2013) 44 minutes ago, Could Be Fire said: For the Ghostbloods, I’ll plug them in after the Catacendre. I am thinking I should add in some of rough Dawnshard locations we have. Oh yeah, good idea. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Oltux72 Posted June 20 Report Share Posted June 20 Is there a good reason to assume that Nazh postdates the arrival of the Evil? If we do that than there is one hard question. Where are the Threnodite forces the Ire already refers to at the time of the Catacendre during the events of Stormlight archive? It seems to me to make more sense to assume that the arrival of the Evil happened shortly after the Catacendre and ended Threnody's external ambitions. If Nazriloff postdates the Evil his remarks about Cognitive Shadows make little sense, because just becoming a Shade was common on his home world. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drunkenbotanist Posted July 17 Report Share Posted July 17 Re: the pact Since the wording IIRC is "to not interfere with each other" then two shards agreeing makes sense, because they agree they're not interfering which each other but working together. Also: it drives me crazy knowing that Brandon has his own wiki that absolutely has a secret timeline. Honestly I hope when he retires he publishes his internal wiki 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firesong Posted July 17 Report Share Posted July 17 (edited) On 6/12/2023 at 11:42 PM, Could Be Fire said: ~Devotion/Dominion are Splintered by Odium, Autonomy Involved~ All implied to happen fairly shortly after the Shattering. Bravadin says Aona/Skai violated the pact from “the very beginning” suggesting it happens very early. What exactly they did to violate the pact is unclear. Wasn't immediate thought as according to Khriss Arcanum's notes Devotion/Dominion had to time get a reputation as relatively hands-off on their planet and to influence language development on Sel, but all occurs in Selish prehistory. We know exactly what they did to violate the pact, multiple Shards inhabited one system. The epigraphs continue on and explain this, with how "no good can come from more than one shard in a system", and "I am disappointed so few kept to the pact", etc. I haven't read the full thing, will expand on this response later. Shadows happens between Warbreaker and The Way of Kings, the WoB implies it is actually very close to The Way of Kings, in fact. Quote WOB is that Warbreaker is between Era 1 and Era 2 Mistborn. Vivenna appears to be around 30 in Stormight Archive, so Warbreak is at least a decade before Stormlight Archive. Considering Vivenna’s returned descent and heightening her aging may not be the timing exactly so maybe a couple of decades earlier. We know it is a few generations before The Way of Kings. It was longer than a decade, and Vivenna looks like that as her aging was slowed by Breaths. Also, you have to remember for this, Rosharan years are 1.1x the length of the Cosmere standard. So you have to translate Rosharan lengths of time into a standard measure. Edited July 17 by Firesong 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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