Why did Lord Ruler built the storage caches in the first place? Its existence seems illogical.

[IEarthan]

I am listening to Mistborn Book 3 Hero. I wanted to know why did Lord Ruler create the Storage caches? What was their purpose? Also, he knew that he was immortal & that Ruin won't ever escape (since Ruin can only be freed when Well of Ascension's power is freed when it comes once in a thousand years. Lord Ruler has Well of Acsension beneath him so when Well fills up in 1000 years, Lord Ruler can go down to well & again gain power & not release it. So Ruin can't ever escape since LR knew LR was immortal). Lord Ruler had this knowledge that LR was immortal & Ruin can't ever escape then why did LR built the storage caches in the first place?

[Voidmaker he/him]

It's a safety precaution. TLR knows very well that Ruin's trying his hardest to escape, and knows that it's going to be difficult to keep Ruin secure with how the Shard can put perfect pawns into the right places. He never intended to actually NEED the storage caches, he just knew that if he was outplayed he'd want the human race to have a chance- a small one, but a chance.

[The Paradoxical Phenomenon he/him]

13 minutes ago, IEarthan said:

I am listening to Mistborn Book 3 Hero. I wanted to know why did Lord Ruler create the Storage caches? What was their purpose? Also, he knew that he was immortal & that Ruin won't ever escape (since Ruin can only be freed when Well of Ascension's power is freed when it comes once in a thousand years. Lord Ruler has Well of Acsension beneath him so when Well fills up in 1000 years, Lord Ruler can go down to well & again gain power & not release it. So Ruin can't ever escape since LR knew LR was immortal). Lord Ruler had this knowledge that LR was immortal & Ruin can't ever escape then why did LR built the storage caches in the first place?

See, here’s the thing. The Lord Ruler was extremely paranoid, and while he knew that he was immortal, that didn’t mean he couldn’t be killed. I also want to point out that every time he stored his age it was harder, and used more energy because of how old he was getting. Staying in the mid-twenties was taxing. Also, he knew that Ruin could escape. He had a system, but he also had a backup system, the caches. Should he ever die, he left instructions for how to live as long as possible through the apocalypse. The Lord Ruler didn’t want to have to use them, but they were there just in case.

 I don’t know if I explained that very well, if you have any questions about what I said please ask.

Ninja’d 

Edited May 15, 2023 by TheAlpha929

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

7 minutes ago, IEarthan said:

I am listening to Mistborn Book 3 Hero. I wanted to know why did Lord Ruler create the Storage caches? What was their purpose? Also, he knew that he was immortal & that Ruin won't ever escape (since Ruin can only be freed when Well of Ascension's power is freed when it comes once in a thousand years. Lord Ruler has Well of Acsension beneath him so when Well fills up in 1000 years, Lord Ruler can go down to well & again gain power & not release it. So Ruin can't ever escape since LR knew LR was immortal). Lord Ruler had this knowledge that LR was immortal & Ruin can't ever escape then why did LR built the storage caches in the first place?

TLR wasn't really immortal.  Atium works well but his spiritual self was still far too old for that body.  Could he have kept going?  Sure, but immortality wears on a person who isn't made for that.  I personally believe when Vin breathed in the mists and killed him it was a relief.  He has watched everyone he ever knew and cared about die.  He is surrounded by people who don't like him and instead live in constant fear of him and his ministry minions.  

TLR might have known what he had to do but who is saying he would have had the will to do it again when the time came?  

 

[Chaos he/him]

Hi there. Please don't post topics in multiple locations! I have removed the one in Mistborn that had only one reply, and moved this to the Mistborn board, as this only has Mistborn content, and we wouldn't want you to get spoiled on cosmere things. 

[IEarthan]

I understand better now! Thank you all for your replies . But answer these 2 questions. 1) Why would Lord Ruler leave instructions for his enemies who supposedly killed him? 2) Why would be want to help the people who rebelled & overthrow him (by providing food & survival stuff through the storage caches)? Kindly answer these questions @Chaos, @Tamriel Wolfsbaine, @TheAlpha929, @Voidwatcher, @Kendelian.

Have a Great & Happy day .

[alder24]

2 hours ago, IEarthan said:

I am listening to Mistborn Book 3 Hero. I wanted to know why did Lord Ruler create the Storage caches? What was their purpose? Also, he knew that he was immortal & that Ruin won't ever escape (since Ruin can only be freed when Well of Ascension's power is freed when it comes once in a thousand years. Lord Ruler has Well of Acsension beneath him so when Well fills up in 1000 years, Lord Ruler can go down to well & again gain power & not release it. So Ruin can't ever escape since LR knew LR was immortal). Lord Ruler had this knowledge that LR was immortal & Ruin can't ever escape then why did LR built the storage caches in the first place?

Just read the whole book, you will find your answer there. There are few reasons for that, and the message in the last cave will clear things up. Others explained this already.

Ruin could slightly influence things from the Well - which you saw in WoA, when Ruin was changing texts, whispering to some people etc. There was a serious possibility that in those 1000 years Ruin would find a way to kill Rashek and he was aware of that.

Just now, IEarthan said:

1) Why would Lord Ruler leave instructions for his enemies who supposedly killed him? 2) Why would be want to help the people who rebelled & overthrow him (by providing food & survival stuff through the storage caches)?

Because he still cared for his people and wanted them to survive despite his death, even if they overthrown him. He knew that Ruin would stand behind his death. And you know, those caves were built hundreds years ago, how would he prevent rebels from using them after his death? There is also another very important reason for that, but please just keep reading, you're risking getting heavy spoilers.

In the future I recommend you to ask questions about confusing parts and give us a chapter that you've currently reading, so we won't accidentally spoil anything for you.

[The Paradoxical Phenomenon he/him]

7 minutes ago, IEarthan said:

1) Why would Lord Ruler leave instructions for his enemies who supposedly killed him? 

I think it’s because he wanted to ensure the survival of mankind. I’m pretty sure there is a part in the book where it talks about this. It’s also worth noting that the storage caches were intended to be found by his obligators.

7 minutes ago, IEarthan said:

2) Why would be want to help the people who rebelled & overthrow him (by providing food & survival stuff through the storage caches)? 

Basically the same answer, he wants to Preserve mankind. He didn’t necessarily know that he would be overthrown, the caches were put there in case of any emergency.

[Underwater_Worldhopper he/him]

6 hours ago, IEarthan said:

I understand better now! Thank you all for your replies . But answer these 2 questions. 1) Why would Lord Ruler leave instructions for his enemies who supposedly killed him? 2) Why would be want to help the people who rebelled & overthrow him (by providing food & survival stuff through the storage caches)? Kindly answer these questions @Chaos, @Tamriel Wolfsbaine, @TheAlpha929, @Voidwatcher, @Kendelian.

Have a Great & Happy day .

He may not have expected to specifically be overthrown and killed, he just knew Ruin was working very hard to escape, and he was the biggest obstacle in Ruin's way, so Ruin would definitely try to get rid of him somehow. The caches were a failsafe in case he died.

[Duxredux he/him]

Spoilers for the end, don't read it unless you've finished the book. Seriously, it won't make sense and it spoils a lot.

I haven't seen anything to directly indicate this, but the spoiler section is a theory for the Lord Ruler's reasons for building the storage caches.

Spoiler

I think that the storage caches were the Lord Ruler's method of making relatively easily transferable (and identifiable at a large scale) stockpiles in preparation for using the Well of Ascension again. It's quite possible for someone to move those storage caverns while using the Well of Ascension, evidence being that the well itself was moved. Because of the metal deposits, the caches are highly visible to one with that power, and then he wouldn't have to spend too long while Ascended setting up his new imperial seat. The Lord Ruler knew all this as they were designed to be hidden from Ruin as masked by the metal deposits surrounding the caches.

Why would he move the world's geography around again? This is speculation, but he had 3-4 major reoccurring issues during his reign after he Ascended.

1. The Skaa over a thousand years had never stopped causing him problems.

2. He needed a more permanent solution to immortality, as his use of Atium Compounding had major drawbacks.

3. His most visible servants, the Inquisitors, were powerful but were slowly corrupted by Ruin.

4. He needed a solution for Ruin as Preservation grew weaker.

What would Rashek have done if he were to Ascend a second time? Perhaps he would have found a different solution to the Mists than his world of ash. Perhaps he missed the climate of ancient Terris and normal food (maybe he had regretted for a thousand years that he had gotten rid of yams or blueberries or something). Perhaps he had ideas for another Hemalurgic creation that could be refined and realized with the insight gained at the Well. Many problems cascaded from his first attempt to burn away the Mists, and if he had a viable solution besides messing with Scadrial's orbit, he could have reversed a lot of those problems. With no need for a massive slave population to force food from an ash choked world, he could manage with a more balanced servant /master populace. No idea what he would have done for immortality.

At any rate, the metals and foods in those storage caches were quite possibly intended to be used as they were by Sazed. As a jump-start to a new world, with metals, food, water, Obligators many of whom were Mistings and could serve as functionaries or Hemalurgic material, all to build a new empire without having to conquer everyone again. They also served as a backup in case he died or Ruin escaped, and pragmatically he setup the metal inscriptions as a fail-safe.

Had another couple thoughts after sleeping on it.

Spoiler

Rashek did have friends. Incredibly loyal and faithful friends that had supported him over a thousand years. The First Generation, who had kept their old skeletons the whole time. Rashek had learned how to manipulate genetics, perhaps he could have restored his old friends to rule in place of the High Nobility that squabbled in Luthadel. If he had also conceived a viable and more bearable immortal state using Preservation's power, perhaps he would have shared it with these loyal friends who suffered as he did.

The last thought, assuming that Rashek tried to do all this, is that there is a tremendous irony here. Had Kelsier waited a single year, Mare's world of flowers might have been restored. That said, given the one holding the power of the Well of Ascension can make broad adjustments while selecting target populations by genetics (as seen by the transformation of the ancient Terris Feruchemists), any Misting not sitting in a storage cavern might have been turned into a slug or something. Depends on how much of the limited time available to Rashek while holding the power of Preservation would have put to reshaping the world to suit an empire or to combat Ruin.

 

Edited May 16, 2023 by Duxredux
clarity and additional thoughts

[IEarthan]

Thank you all for your replies . I understand now! 

Have a Great & Happy day .

Edited May 16, 2023 by IEarthan

[Jn819 she/her]

On 5/15/2023 at 11:55 AM, IEarthan said:

I understand better now! Thank you all for your replies . But answer these 2 questions. 1) Why would Lord Ruler leave instructions for his enemies who supposedly killed him? 2) Why would be want to help the people who rebelled & overthrow him (by providing food & survival stuff through the storage caches)? Kindly answer these questions @Chaos, @Tamriel Wolfsbaine, @TheAlpha929, @Voidwatcher, @Kendelian.

Have a Great & Happy day .

As others have said, he expected (most of) his empire to be loyal subjects who didn't deserve to die just because Ruin wanted him out of the way.

On 5/15/2023 at 10:55 PM, Duxredux said:

Spoilers for the end, don't read it unless you've finished the book. Seriously, it won't make sense and it spoils a lot.

I haven't seen anything to directly indicate this, but the spoiler section is a theory for the Lord Ruler's reasons for building the storage caches.

  Hide contents

I think that the storage caches were the Lord Ruler's method of making relatively easily transferable (and identifiable at a large scale) stockpiles in preparation for using the Well of Ascension again. It's quite possible for someone to move those storage caverns while using the Well of Ascension, evidence being that the well itself was moved. Because of the metal deposits, the caches are highly visible to one with that power, and then he wouldn't have to spend too long while Ascended setting up his new imperial seat. The Lord Ruler knew all this as they were designed to be hidden from Ruin as masked by the metal deposits surrounding the caches.

Why would he move the world's geography around again? This is speculation, but he had 3-4 major reoccurring issues during his reign after he Ascended.

1. The Skaa over a thousand years had never stopped causing him problems.

2. He needed a more permanent solution to immortality, as his use of Atium Compounding had major drawbacks.

3. His most visible servants, the Inquisitors, were powerful but were slowly corrupted by Ruin.

4. He needed a solution for Ruin as Preservation grew weaker.

What would Rashek have done if he were to Ascend a second time? Perhaps he would have found a different solution to the Mists than his world of ash. Perhaps he missed the climate of ancient Terris and normal food (maybe he had regretted for a thousand years that he had gotten rid of yams or blueberries or something). Perhaps he had ideas for another Hemalurgic creation that could be refined and realized with the insight gained at the Well. Many problems cascaded from his first attempt to burn away the Mists, and if he had a viable solution besides messing with Scadrial's orbit, he could have reversed a lot of those problems. With no need for a massive slave population to force food from an ash choked world, he could manage with a more balanced servant /master populace. No idea what he would have done for immortality.

At any rate, the metals and foods in those storage caches were quite possibly intended to be used as they were by Sazed. As a jump-start to a new world, with metals, food, water, Obligators many of whom were Mistings and could serve as functionaries or Hemalurgic material, all to build a new empire without having to conquer everyone again. They also served as a backup in case he died or Ruin escaped, and pragmatically he setup the metal inscriptions as a fail-safe.

Had another couple thoughts after sleeping on it.

  Hide contents

Rashek did have friends. Incredibly loyal and faithful friends that had supported him over a thousand years. The First Generation, who had kept their old skeletons the whole time. Rashek had learned how to manipulate genetics, perhaps he could have restored his old friends to rule in place of the High Nobility that squabbled in Luthadel. If he had also conceived a viable and more bearable immortal state using Preservation's power, perhaps he would have shared it with these loyal friends who suffered as he did.

The last thought, assuming that Rashek tried to do all this, is that there is a tremendous irony here. Had Kelsier waited a single year, Mare's world of flowers might have been restored. That said, given the one holding the power of the Well of Ascension can make broad adjustments while selecting target populations by genetics (as seen by the transformation of the ancient Terris Feruchemists), any Misting not sitting in a storage cavern might have been turned into a slug or something. Depends on how much of the limited time available to Rashek while holding the power of Preservation would have put to reshaping the world to suit an empire or to combat Ruin.

 

I like this hypothesis too.

To add something no one else seems to have mentioned though (can't remember if this is a spoiler, so to be safe):

Spoiler

Ruin talked to TLR, tried to corrupt him. He was worried about his own ability to retain his sanity and convictions through the millennia too. One possibility he might have been considering is Ruin getting him to commit suicide. No one to blame but himself, so everyone deserves the chance to live.

And it's also possible he just wasn't as vengeful as you might think based on The Final Empire alone. Even if all humanity was complicit in his downfall, he might have wanted them to live. Or at the very least, he knew most people would not participate. In any case, I certainly wouldn't want the whole human race to go extinct just because I failed to stop a powerful madman (which is a fair category to include Ati in at that point).

But the long and short of it is he had time and money to prepare with, he knew there was a threat of extinction, and there was basically no reason not to build the caverns.

[cometaryorbit]

9 hours ago, Jn819 said:

As others have said, he expected (most of) his empire to be loyal subjects who didn't deserve to die just because Ruin wanted him out of the way.

Yeah, exactly. He expected Ruin to try something, but not a rebellion. He knew that couldn't work - no one, and no group, could kill him.

And he'd have been right, if Preservation hadn't chosen Vin. Without the ability to burn the Mists, Vin wouldn't have been able to Pull off his bracers; she'd have died there, and TLR would have gone on to personally crush the rebellion with his own powers (including incredibly powerful Emotional Allomancy).

TLR was angry and hateful even before Ruin's influence, but he did have an interest in humanity's survival.

[Lord_Ruler]

To be honest, I just wanted a place to store my snacks. I figured I might as well turn it into a bunker and add some warnings of Ruin's return.