Twinborn Combos

[Aeshdan]

A copper compounder could get past the annoyance of memories decaying when taken out of a coppermind. Put a memory in a coppermind, swallow it, and burn. You get the memory back, but at 10x the force. With such a strong memory, it seems unlikely that you'll ever forget it, even if you just let it sit in your head. Total recall.

Just a,

Thought

That's a good question. What exactly does copper compounding do?

[nikomis]

I didn't see anyone suggest this, but an Iron Twinborn (Lurcher+Skimmer) could, essentially, fly. Throw a bit of metal into the air, reduce one's weight to significantly less than the metal, and pull, thereby flinging yourself at the metal. Because of gravity, as long as you don’t constantly pull you won’t hit the object but rather fly by it. Then, you increase your weight, pull on the metal, and let it fly past you. Decrease, pull, increase, pull, etc. Combine this basic premise with compounding iron, and you’d essentially get a human-powered airplane, since on that scale you’d really just need to increase your weight to several tons.

The real issue I see here is landing. With pulling, your only safe landings are slow pulls to things above you. When you're flying high, that doesn't really happen. Unless you're lucky enough to fly by something jutting out of a building or something and pull such that you loop in circles around it, slowing down. But...I don't think that could be relied upon.

[Exile]

That's a good question. What exactly does copper compounding do?

I always assumed the Lord Ruler compounded copper and therefore had a flawless memory. He didn't have to store any memories or what not, just as long as he compounded copper (what ever that entailed) which could be nearly constant as he copper is cheap and burns relatively slowly, then he would have perfect recall during this period.

Really the character concept is pretty cool. A bit like that new tv cop drama called "Unforgetable", I think (ironicly I can't remember it very well). There wouldn't be much of a combat orientation for this but having a flawless memory is still pretty freaking helpful.

EDIT: and as for the iron compounder, the actual problem would be going anywhere but where you started. Even angling the metal when you throw it would cause you to fly back to your original position. You could hover, but actual flying might prove impossible.

Edited February 9, 2012 by Exile

[Inevitable]

I was thinking about a Duralmin Compounder today.

Someone said this earlier in the thread:

One big weakness of Duralumin Feruchemy is that it cuts both ways. You gain a bond to everyone else just as they gain a bond to you.

... and I'm curious as to where they got this from. The description of Duralumin Feruchemy clearly states that it affects other people reactions, but mentions nothing about the Ferring themself. The closes you get is "Tapping the metalmind will allow the user to form trust relationships with others much faster". Though you could interpret it as a 2-way bond, it doesn't have to be. The Ferring doesn't need to be affected by their own power.

If I'm right (and I might not be) this removes the previously posed issue with a Duralumin Compounder. Someone mentioned that they would make a good politician, but presumably there's a range involved with this, and you can't keep your entire electorate in that range. It's thinking small anyway. It seems more likely that a Duralumin compounder could, effectively, force others to obey them, out of the power of friendship, as corny as that sounds. Even if the subject knows they're being controlled, they won't care.

More interesting is what would happen if the Compounder then used standard Duralumin Allomancy. A sudden explosion of overwhealming friendship? Would it even do anything? Once the Compounded Duralumin is gone the extra friendship should vanish to? Or perhaps something else happens entirely.

Another tangent, copperclouds protect from emotional allomancy. Though this shouldn't affect Duralumin feruchemy, it may well block compounded Duralumin. This is the only counter I can think of for this Twinborn combination, assuming that the connection is one way.

[Thought]

Nikomis, while the landing would be more difficult than the rest of the process, the basic principle seems like it would be the same. To gain altitude, the iron-twinborn (let's call him an Ironman) would have to fling the counterweight and himself hard enough upwards that the collective vertical force would exceed the pull of gravity. To maintain altitude, the collective vertical force would have to match gravity, and to decrease altitude, it would have to be less than gravity. If it was just slightly less than gravity, it would be a slow fall. When the Ironman got close enough to the ground, he could let the counterweight drop and then just reduce his weight enough to glide to the ground himself.

Exile, I am not sure I understand your stance properly, or, actually, that you understand mine either. The key to this twinborn flight comes from the twinborn's ability to adjust their mass. Kinetic energy is F=ma, while acceleration is a=F/m. The twinborn decreases his mass substantially and then pulls on the counterweight, pulling himself towards that direct. Even though F might be small, he can make m even smaller, so his acceleration can be great. He can then increase his mass substantially. No matter how small that F was, it is now being ridiculously multiplied by m. This gives him a huge amount of kinetic energy, which by pulling he can then transfer partially to the counterweight. He's now low on kinetic energy, so he decreases his mass, pulls on the counterweight when it passes, accelerates, and increases mass, restoring his lost energy and allowing him to repeat the process again. There's a net gain of energy, which is what lets one hover (if one is only pulling directly up and down) or, if one angels it properly, fly. Hovering would probably be the harder of the two possibilities.

Just a,

Thought

Edited February 9, 2012 by Thought

[Exile]

Exile, I am not sure I understand your stance properly, or, actually, that you understand mine either. The key to this twinborn flight comes from the twinborn's ability to adjust their mass. Kinetic energy is F=ma, while acceleration is a=F/m. The twinborn decreases his mass substantially and then pulls on the counterweight, pulling himself towards that direct. Even though F might be small, he can make m even smaller, so his acceleration can be great. He can then increase his mass substantially. No matter how small that F was, it is now being ridiculously multiplied by m. This gives him a huge amount of kinetic energy, which by pulling he can then transfer partially to the counterweight. He's now low on kinetic energy, so he decreases his mass, pulls on the counterweight when it passes, accelerates, and increases mass, restoring his lost energy and allowing him to repeat the process again. There's a net gain of energy, which is what lets one hover (if one is only pulling directly up and down) or, if one angels it properly, fly. Hovering would probably be the harder of the two possibilities.

Just a,

Thought

Okay, I think I understand in theory. Basically what you are doing is moving your anchor through the sky and following it and then pulling it after you, varying wait to insure you either get pulled to it or it is pulled towards you. Yeah that could work. But I think you might have to be a zinc ferring to get all the angles down. That would be incredibly hard. Harder, I think, than Vin's use of horseshoes in the second book.

[Deus Ex Biotica]

Actually I figured this one out the moment I heard about bullet paths being distorted. Technically Wax doesn't do this, but instead a slight varient of it. For those who can't remember (like me), Wax fires a first bullet normally, which deflects, then carefully aims the second one to deflect off the first (with a push to that it actually catches up). He's able to do this because he's worked out how the change in time affects the path of the bullet.

...

So yeah, beware the Bendalloy/Zincmind Twinborns.

Not quite what I meant. Wax's trick with hitting his own bullet is impressive, and manages to shoot at a normally impossible angle, but it cannot shoot out of a speedbobble - the distortion is (as far as I can tell) not always the same, which is why he needs Wayne to drop the bubble before he fires the second shot.

What I propose is simpler: throw metal things through the bubble, then push on them there. That force shouldn't distort meaningfully, since it is, by definition, between two points, neither of which is passing through the bubble. On further thought, however, the simple fact of people not doing this must imply that you cannot Push/Pull metals through the edges of a bubble. I wonder if the same holds true for emotional Allomancy.

I am truly surprised that no one here has introduced the idea of an Electrum/Chromium Twinborn! Being able to see your immediate future and being able to dynamically modify your luck would make you the bane of casino owners everywhere!

Perhaps I came up with that one because I live in Las Vegas, but I thought that it was the best combo of either of those metals.

I'm still partial to Bendalloy/Chromium, but this has potential. Whenever you see something bad, Tap like mad!

I didn't see anyone suggest this, but an Iron Twinborn (Lurcher+Skimmer) could, essentially, fly. Throw a bit of metal into the air, reduce one's weight to significantly less than the metal, and pull, thereby flinging yourself at the metal. Because of gravity, as long as you don’t constantly pull you won’t hit the object but rather fly by it. Then, you increase your weight, pull on the metal, and let it fly past you. Decrease, pull, increase, pull, etc. Combine this basic premise with compounding iron, and you’d essentially get a human-powered airplane, since on that scale you’d really just need to increase your weight to several tons.

I'm not sure this is easy as you seem to think. Pulling with a force less than "hit it hard enough to break things" requires a lot of control (Zane might be the only person with enough control, and he had been practicing for years with the extra power granted by his spike), and Mistborn repeatedly hit each other with coins while both are moving through the air, so "it can't hit me due to falling" doesn't seem totally safe here. At the least, I'd expect you to crack ribs while practicing the move (and, unlike Vin, you probably wouldn't have Pewter to save you).

And then there's steering. The system you describe would fling you wherever your anchor went, but without having any other way to reposition yourself, how are you controlling its trajectory?

For that matter, what are your relative weights? I'd assume you'll want a decent-sized Metalmind, so you can fill for a long time if you have to - Compounding doesn't increase the capacity of Metalminds, so that's a decent amount of wieght. Thus, you need an anchor significantly heavier than your several pounds of iron (plus clothing). A 30-50 pound metal ball is doable, sure, but you clearly cannot carry a spare - if something distracts you and it falls further than you can Pull, you're out of luck. If you have multiple Metalminds, you might be able to throw one of them, then reduce your weight with the other and Pull to slow your fall, but will you bet your life on it?

In short, it's a very inventive idea, and it could work well for short distances (assuming you find a way to steer), but in general, I doubt it would grant greater benefits than an Ironmind and a hang glider.

A Nicrosil/Steel twinborn would be an excellent support unit in an army. Get a bunch of coinshots lined up with explosives in metal casings, then have the twinborn run up to each can cause them to launch the explosives like a cannon.

There's a reason I think Nicroburster + Steelminds is utterly horrifying, and this is a good example.

A copper compounder could get past the annoyance of memories decaying when taken out of a coppermind. Put a memory in a coppermind, swallow it, and burn. You get the memory back, but at 10x the force. With such a strong memory, it seems unlikely that you'll ever forget it, even if you just let it sit in your head. Total recall.

That's a good question. What exactly does copper compounding do?

Nobody likes my idea of Copper Compounding letting you flawlessly duplicate stored memories. The "add them to your mind forever" thing makes sense, too, though.

More interesting is what would happen if the Compounder then used standard Duralumin Allomancy. A sudden explosion of overwhealming friendship? Would it even do anything? Once the Compounded Duralumin is gone the extra friendship should vanish to? Or perhaps something else happens entirely.

Another tangent, copperclouds protect from emotional allomancy. Though this shouldn't affect Duralumin feruchemy, it may well block compounded Duralumin. This is the only counter I can think of for this Twinborn combination, assuming that the connection is one way.

Why would you assume that Duralumin can enhance Feruchemy? The Metallic Arts are not interchangeable, and Brandon Sanderson recently confirmed that Chromium/Aluminum only drins your Allomantic metals, not your Metalminds, so this seems very unlikely.

Also, even if this did work, wouldn't the person revert back to normal as soon as your Metalminds were empy? And, even if they didn't, it would be less "mind control" and more "constantly gambling everything" - it not as if history lacks examples of people betraying their own parents or lovers for one reason or another. Even the closest connection is never absolute.

-- Deus Ex Biotica

[Aeshdan]

I was thinking about a Duralmin Compounder today.

Someone said this earlier in the thread:

... and I'm curious as to where they got this from. The description of Duralumin Feruchemy clearly states that it affects other people reactions, but mentions nothing about the Ferring themself. The closes you get is "Tapping the metalmind will allow the user to form trust relationships with others much faster". Though you could interpret it as a 2-way bond, it doesn't have to be. The Ferring doesn't need to be affected by their own power.

If I'm right (and I might not be) this removes the previously posed issue with a Duralumin Compounder. Someone mentioned that they would make a good politician, but presumably there's a range involved with this, and you can't keep your entire electorate in that range. It's thinking small anyway. It seems more likely that a Duralumin compounder could, effectively, force others to obey them, out of the power of friendship, as corny as that sounds. Even if the subject knows they're being controlled, they won't care.

More interesting is what would happen if the Compounder then used standard Duralumin Allomancy. A sudden explosion of overwhealming friendship? Would it even do anything? Once the Compounded Duralumin is gone the extra friendship should vanish to? Or perhaps something else happens entirely.

Another tangent, copperclouds protect from emotional allomancy. Though this shouldn't affect Duralumin feruchemy, it may well block compounded Duralumin. This is the only counter I can think of for this Twinborn combination, assuming that the connection is one way.

It's in the RPG. The descriptions of tapping large amounts of Connection explicitly state that it cuts both ways.

Deus Ex Biotica, on 09 February 2012 - 09:37 PM, said:

Why would you assume that Duralumin can enhance Feruchemy? The Metallic Arts are not interchangeable, and Brandon Sanderson recently confirmed that Chromium/Aluminum only drins your Allomantic metals, not your Metalminds, so this seems very unlikely.

Also, even if this did work, wouldn't the person revert back to normal as soon as your Metalminds were empy? And, even if they didn't, it would be less "mind control" and more "constantly gambling everything" - it not as if history lacks examples of people betraying their own parents or lovers for one reason or another. Even the closest connection is never absolute.

-- Deus Ex Biotica

A Feruchemical metalmind behaves exactly like any other Allomantic metal when burned, so Duralumin would set it off.

In other words: burning duralumin while tapping a metalmind doesn't do anything, but burning regular Duralumin while burning a metalmind will.

Zas678's Note- Don't double post, especially if it's only been two minutes. Use the Edit button at the bottom of you post if you forgot something.

[Inevitable]

A Feruchemical metalmind behaves exactly like any other Allomantic metal when burned, so Duralumin would set it off.

In other words: burning duralumin while tapping a metalmind doesn't do anything, but burning regular Duralumin while burning a metalmind will.

What I refered to ^^

Also that two way connection is saddening. Though it strikes me more as a gameplay balance device I suppose we have to take it as a general fact. Does it say if compounded Duralumin is two way as well? I only ask because all the allomatic manipulative abilities will only work on others.

[Aeshdan]

What I refered to ^^

Also that two way connection is saddening. Though it strikes me more as a gameplay balance device I suppose we have to take it as a general fact. Does it say if compounded Duralumin is two way as well? I only ask because all the allomantic manipulative abilities will only work on others.

Compounding more of an attribute just makes more of it, it doesn't alter its properties in any way.

As you said, anything in the RPG is canon unless explicitly countermanded by first-order canon.

If anything, it would be small amounts of Connection that cut one-way, since you who know what's happening might be able to ignore a lesser effect by sheer force of will.

Edited February 10, 2012 by ReaderAt2046

[Deus Ex Biotica]

Agreed. I still don't really see the value of Duralumin in compounding: it explicitly does not flare itself down to nothing like Aluminum does, so it could not be boosting your burn of Duralumin, even Feruchemically charged Duralumin. And even if you had Duralumin plus some other form of Compounding somehow, Duralumin doesn't give you greater yield than everything you could have gotten out of your current metals, as far as I know. It just lets you have it all at once.

Of course, Allomancy is the art of getting extra, so maybe I'm wrong, and Duralumin does give you more total than you could get without it, but even then, all you've managed is to save yourself the cost of some metal (they type you Compound, obviously) at the expense of some also-pricey Duralumin. You don't need the Duralumin to reach an arbitrarily large amount of an attribute, since Compounding is an infinite loop already.

As for the connection cutting both ways, I don't see this as RPG necessity so much as it makes sense - emotional Allomancy can cut one way since it is literally creation "emotional energy" out of nothing, Feruchemy has to use what you put in, and what most people have to store is the capacity to form connections which affect both parties. It also makes for more interesting stories than "this guy has mind control".

That said, I wonder what happens when a true sociopath stores Connection.

-- Deus Ex Biotica

[Thought]

First, a new combination: brass/duralumin twinborn. They would make the perfect spy/thief. Walk into a bank, drain your connection so that the guards are less aware of you, sooth away any remaining suspicion, grab a mound of cash, and walk out.

Second, more flying twinborns! Alas, my apologies for the wall of text. I tried to trim things down, but there were a number of objections to respond to.

Deus Ex, if I'm reading you right, it seems like your three objections are lack of control over pulling, the likelihood of collision during flight, and the difficulty of maneuvering. Is that correct?

For control, there are two things to consider. The first is simply Renette (Alloy of Law). She clearly displayed a somewhat fine degree of control over her powers. The second is that a small force applied over a long period of time can have the same effect as a large force applied over a short period of time. Even if a lurcher couldn't control the strength of their pull, they can control the duration of the pull, thereby granting a similar degree of finesse.

Collisions in air would be less damaging than one might think, since it is only the relative speeds that would cause damage, not the total speed. Additionally, since the twinborn can change their mass, they are also changing their mass to surface area ration, which will in turn influence how much air resistance affects them. As long as they didn't keep their mass to surface area ratio the same as the counterweight's, then air resistance would slow one or the other enough that they shouldn't collide.

And finally, maneuverability, yes, that would be problematic if one were to only use a single counterweight. The addition of a second counterweight, however, solves this. The concept is similar to tacking. A twinborn could travel north by flinging one counterweight to the northwest and the other counterweight to the northeast. He could then gain maneuverability by flinging one not as hard at the other, thereby slowly turning the entire effort.

There are two other lesser considerations that are worth discussing. The first is the weight of the ironmind. This method of flying depends on relative masses and the twinborn's ability to adjust his own. If his metalminds are too massive, the solution is simply to use a larger counterweight. However, we don't have even an inkling of how much weight an ironmind can hold.

The second minor issue is that of mental processing power, and the assumption that one would need to have access to a zincmind. However, much as a juggler works by instinct, a flying twinborn wouldn't need to calculate the angels of trajectory, he or she would just need to practice a lot in order to develop the necessary reflexes. Even with two counterweights, this should actually be easier than Vin's horseshoe wheel thingy (fewer items to keep track of, while the need to pull at certain trajectories, and to switch between powers, remains the same).

[Deus Ex Biotica]

First, a new combination: brass/duralumin twinborn. They would make the perfect spy/thief. Walk into a bank, drain your connection so that the guards are less aware of you, sooth away any remaining suspicion, grab a mound of cash, and walk out.

Technically, that "new" combination is mentioned in literally the first post of the thread, but I agree, it is a juicy one.

Second, more flying twinborns! Alas, my apologies for the wall of text. I tried to trim things down, but there were a number of objections to respond to.

Poppycock and balderdash! Walls of text can be a good thing, so long as they communicate interesting and cogent ideas, which yours does.

I like your point about aerial collisions being less damaging than expected - if the Twinborn is managing things such that they and the anchor are moving at roughly the same speed and trajectory (I maintain that this is more difficult that you are indicating - Ranette didn't prove she had exceptional control, she merely set things up so that yanking objects towards herself was all she needed to do), hitting or being hit by the anchor is relatively harmless. Sadly, this ceases to be the case if you add a second anchor - this guarantees that you will always have an anchor with a different trajectory from you, increasing the risk from collisions drastically.

The analogy of tacking reminds me of another issue: wind resistance. For the repeated alternating of weight much greater and much less than the anchor to not send you spiraling off course, your default weight during this operation has to be immense. That's not necessarily a problem for a Compounder, but it increases the risk factor even further - if something goes wrong, there is now no way to use an Ironmind as a makeshift replacement anchor if one of your giant iron balls falls.

And speaking of falling, how do you land without at least one heavy object crashing into the ground with destructive force?

-- Deus Ex Biotica

[Inevitable]

Agreed. I still don't really see the value of Duralumin in compounding: it explicitly does not flare itself down to nothing like Aluminum does, so it could not be boosting your burn of Duralumin, even Feruchemically charged Duralumin. And even if you had Duralumin plus some other form of Compounding somehow, Duralumin doesn't give you greater yield than everything you could have gotten out of your current metals, as far as I know. It just lets you have it all at once.

Of course, Allomancy is the art of getting extra, so maybe I'm wrong, and Duralumin does give you more total than you could get without it, but even then, all you've managed is to save yourself the cost of some metal (they type you Compound, obviously) at the expense of some also-pricey Duralumin. You don't need the Duralumin to reach an arbitrarily large amount of an attribute, since Compounding is an infinite loop already.

Which is sort of why I was wondering if Compounded Duralumin bypasses the two-way connection. Compounded, the resulting Connection would be greater than the amount put into the burned metalmind.

Of course, this seems like trying to hard at this point. Though possible I think I'll just sweep the whole Duralumin Compounder idea away untill/unless something from Sanderson gives a hard answer.

In the meantime, someone mentioned spies. Brass/Duralumin is good, but I prefer Tin. That way they have the senses to... erm... spy better. Brass is definatly a good one for thieves though.

Electrum is an odd one. Storing determination. I saw mention of Pewter...

Pewter/Electrum

Someone uses pewter to accomplish a long-term taks, like holding a boulder or running huge distances, until it completely burns out, leaving them to the bodyshattering consequences.

Then they tap into their filled to brim Electrum-mind, the ensuing determination allows them to circumvent the part of the brain that prevents humans from using all of their strenght, giving them one last burst of energy and keeping them going no matter the pain and broken bones, because their goal is just so important.

A combination that is usefull once, for a very short time, and then they die.

(This is also my understanding of how the mythological marathon was run.)

The Determination to bypass the body's unconcious restrictions (Charles Atlas SuperpowerCAUTION: TvTropes page). Consider that it won't necessarily result in certain death. Pewter encourages healing (such a shame we can't have Gold AND Electrum Feruchemy) and increases the body's resistance. It doesn't remove those self-imposed restrictions though. With this in mind, Electrum could allow the Twinborn to effectively use Pewter to its maximum effect, not much greater than normal, but enough for an edge. It'd be a fine line to walk though. Too far over and you risk major damage.

Some other side effects of Electrum could include immunity to Brass soothing, though increased susceptibility to Zinc rioting.

Edited February 10, 2012 by Inevitable

[Thought]

Technically, that "new" combination is mentioned in literally the first post of the thread, but I agree, it is a juicy one.

It is? I mean, it is! But, you see, I didn't mean to say brass/duralumin, I meant zinc/duralumin. Yup, that's it. Decrease awareness while increasing feelings of distraction. Totally.

Ahem, moving on.

My main objective is just to show that iron+iron flight is possible (not that it is simple). Perhaps we agree more than it seems? It appears that you are under the impression that I think it would be easy (I don't), while I am under the impression that you think it impossible (it seems you don't).

Something that would further add safety to the twinborn is that, provided he was aware that a collision was about to occur, he could greatly increase his mass. While he still wouldn't have pewter enhanced skin, massive objects tend to fair better in collisions than less massive ones.

The second counterweight likewise adds safety. While indeed there will always be one with a different trajectory, that is a good thing. While there would be twice as many times that a counterweight would pass the twinborn during flight, the number of times that the twinborn and counterweight were on the same trajectory would decrease, thereby reducing the number of points where a collision could occur. Furthermore, the twinborn would always have a counterweight not flying towards him that he could use to pull himself out of the path of an impending collision.

As for using an ironmind as a replacement anchor, using two counterweights provides this safety. If one counterweight falls, the other can still be used to make an emergency landing. As for landing, it is a matter of a controlled fall (and, admittedly, a bit of a controlled crash). To increase in altitude, the twinborn would need to give the counterweights and himself enough vertical velocity to exceed gravity's pull (lets say, on average, 11 meters per second squared). To decrease in altitude, the reverse is true (so, 9 meters per second squared). The net effect of gravity, then, would be around 1 meter per second squared. That makes for a light landing. Of course, the twinborn wouldn't have that fine of control, but the principle is what I am getting at. The forward (and side-to-side) momentum would really be the difficult part to break, since gravity isn't working in those directions, but wind resistance could be used to a similar, if not slower, result.

Just a,

Thought

[RenegadeShroom]

I'm thinking Pewter misting/Bronze ferring would be an incredibly useful combination for a number of things, particularly jobs/careers where there's a lot of physical work involved. And I'm guessing any military would love to have soldiers that can stay alert/awake longer, and still be strong and fit for duty while awake. And I imagine having koloss blood wouldn't hurt, either! XD

And I really like the idea of using Iron to fly. I have no idea if it'd work or not, but it sounds really cool. XD

(such a shame we can't have Gold AND Electrum Feruchemy)

Hemalurgy? Or a full Feruchemist that's also a Misting? Sure we can!

[Jaconis]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Pewter/Pewter (or at least I don't think anyone has, sorry if I missed it). We're talking about near infinite strength! I can't remember if tapping a pewtermind increases toughness in the same way that burning Pewter does, but I would think it would at least to a certain extent.

They aren't many uses that I can imagine except for being a nigh unstoppable warrior. I wonder who would win out in a fight, a gold/gold or pewter/pewter...

[Pechvarry]

Well, Feruchemic Pewter actually makes you bulky and muscular. So I imagine compounding for enhanced feruchemic effect is rather limited (Sazed started suffering from his increased bulk; a compounder could rapidly incapacitate themselves). Still, you could perpetually be a very tough guy. I imagine your pewter consumption would at least be much lower.

[Deus Ex Biotica]

Feruchemic Pewter does not increase toughness (except insofar as, like all Feruchemy, it keeps your body from destroying itself with newfound strength). Still, it has uses. Too much will immobilize you, so the possibilities aren't quite as endless as Iron/Iron, but you could still get strong enough to easily shatter stone, well beyond the reach of a normal Thug.

With proper preparation, such a Twinborn is one of the few I think could easily defeat Miles, by grabbing him and tearing his head off. Though they would have to immobilize him completely, lest they get seriously injured by that dynamite he carries around.

-- Deus Ex Biotica

[Thought]

Didn't the Lord Ruler survive decapitation, though? That couldn't have been a result of compounding age, so it seems like compounding healing would have had to be how he did it.

[CrazyRioter]

no he didn't actually, Brandon has said that particular story was exaggerated and that a beheading would actually have killed him.

Edited February 16, 2012 by CrazyRioter

[RJWB0mb]

quick question would double brass be able to start fires by focusing a larg amount of heat on a finger tip? this would hurt alot but a double brass could effectivly be a living ballistics arsenal.

[RJWB0mb]

also what a about a possible ferring hemlurgy combo of zinc mind and copper mind? being give acsess to larg amount of information allong with increased mental speed would be helpful. sorry if im posting this idea to the wrong area.

[Eric]

Quick question: would double brass be able to start fires by focusing a large amount of heat on a finger tip? This would hurt a lot but a double brass could effectively be a living ballistics arsenal.

It's possible, but I'm not sure that a Brazier (a pretty good name for a double Brass Twinborn, I think) could focus the heat on a body part. Also, ballistics specifically refers to projectiles, not weapons in general. Meaning a Coinshot is more of a ballistics arsenal than any Brazier.

Also, what a about a possible ferring hemlurgy combo of zinc mind and copper mind? Being given access to large amounts of information along with increased mental speed would be helpful. Sorry if I'm posting this idea to the wrong area.

Not precisely on topic, but still not a bad choice. Still, you'd have to learn the information first and spend time slow-witted to pull it off, but memorizing Wikipedia and then hitting Jeopardy would be pretty cool.

[RenegadeShroom]

If a Brazier (actually, yeah, that does seem like a good name for a double brass Twinborn. ^__^) were able to focus heat on a specific body part, wouldn't their tapping the brassmind for heat cause their body to become resistant to the pressures being exerted upon it? Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to recall something about tapping metalminds causing the Feruchemist's body to undergo changes that allows them to withstand the pressures that are placed upon them as a result of tapping the metalmind. So, feasibly, a Brazier setting themselves on fire would be able to withstand being on fire? At least, until they stop tapping heat.

Although, I imagine a Brazier could set other things on fire by tapping large amounts of heat? That seems like it'd be useful, but I can't think of any uses at the moment. XD