Frustration he/him Posted March 16, 2023 Report Share Posted March 16, 2023 So it turns out Brandon may have given away some massive spoilers for SA 5, in saying that we will know for certain whether Honor can be restored in KoW Spoiler CaptainObvious0927 The really question is, given the death of Rayse, is Honor really dead? Or is his essence out there, still available to be claimed? Brandon Sanderson I will answer this for certain by the end of Book Five. For now, RAFO. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/406/#e14490 However, he already confirmed that you can bring Shards back Spoiler Questioner Can it be restored? The Splinters... Brandon Sanderson Um, Splinters, can they be restored to... So it is, that is a yes, but restoring them will not restore Honor, the Vessel of Honor, right. They would restore Honor the Shard if this were to happen, but a new Vessel would have to take it. Questioner Ok so, [Adonalsium] can be put back together? Brandon Sanderson Adonalsium? It is theoretically possible to put a Shard back into, you know, to meld Shards together. The fact that we have already seen someone meld powers, in Sazed. So yes, but the question is who or what was Adonalsium, and is putting it back together going to do anything? Or... https://wob.coppermind.net/events/34/#e5993 So it seems pretty apparent that Honor will be restored in KoW, which also means this is probably the last time we get to see unchained Bondsmiths, at least for a long time, so Brandon better be willing to go ham on this. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSurvivorofDeath Posted March 16, 2023 Report Share Posted March 16, 2023 I think most of us have already theorized that Honor would return. It will be interesting to see how it’s done. And it will certainly be exciting to see just how much an unchained bondsmith can do. Hopefully Brandon doesn’t rob us of the possibilities. This book is definitely going to be worth the wait. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alder24 Posted March 16, 2023 Report Share Posted March 16, 2023 That isn't surprising, I personally thought Honor would return by the end of W&T (new name of SA5! You will love it Frustration!), and even fuse Shards of Honor and Odium later on. And there is this WoB, which says traditionally fixing Shards wasn't Bondsmith's set of power, now however they are far away from any traditions as they are unchained. Spoiler RayW2 Can Dalinar hypothetically repair Honor's Shard or this is beyond his powers? Brandon Sanderson This would not be within the scope of his powers, traditionally. (Though I should note that what it even means to 'repair Honor's Shard' is subject to debate.) Skyward Pre-Release AMA (Oct. 4, 2018) And this one says that Dalinar can take parts of two Shards and create a new Shard out of them Spoiler CephandriusTW Stormfather once said that "Three of sixteen ruled but now the Broken One reigns" and that "Odium reigns", is not crazy to think that Odium is the Broken One. My question is, could be possible to fuse Odium's shard (without Rayse) with the remanents of Honor (his Cognitive Shadow) in order to create a new whole Shard? Could Dalinar do something like that? He would be uniting them (two Shards, one of them supposed to be the Broken One and the other that we actually now is a bit broken). Brandon Sanderson [That] is possible General Reddit 2020 (June 18, 2020) So yeah, Honor is coming back. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+robardin he/him Posted March 22, 2023 Report Share Posted March 22, 2023 On 3/16/2023 at 10:18 AM, alder24 said: That isn't surprising, I personally thought Honor would return by the end of W&T (new name of SA5! You will love it Frustration!), and even fuse Shards of Honor and Odium later on. And there is this WoB, which says traditionally fixing Shards wasn't Bondsmith's set of power, now however they are far away from any traditions as they are unchained. Reveal hidden contents RayW2 Can Dalinar hypothetically repair Honor's Shard or this is beyond his powers? Brandon Sanderson This would not be within the scope of his powers, traditionally. (Though I should note that what it even means to 'repair Honor's Shard' is subject to debate.) Skyward Pre-Release AMA (Oct. 4, 2018) And this one says that Dalinar can take parts of two Shards and create a new Shard out of them Hide contents CephandriusTW Stormfather once said that "Three of sixteen ruled but now the Broken One reigns" and that "Odium reigns", is not crazy to think that Odium is the Broken One. My question is, could be possible to fuse Odium's shard (without Rayse) with the remanents of Honor (his Cognitive Shadow) in order to create a new whole Shard? Could Dalinar do something like that? He would be uniting them (two Shards, one of them supposed to be the Broken One and the other that we actually now is a bit broken). Brandon Sanderson [That] is possible General Reddit 2020 (June 18, 2020) So yeah, Honor is coming back. OK, but why fixate on Dalinar? It's Taravangian to whom Cultivation said, "all I could do was hope that if you succeeded, my gift would work. That I had changed you into someone who could bear this power with honor." Or should that be with a capital H? Changed Taravangian into someone who could bear Odium with Honor? After all, they have just discovered the Rhythm of War, the harmonizing of Odium and Honor. And the only reason Rayse had not been wont to take up Shards but perma-Splintered them instead was because he had been "ruled by the power" into hating all the others (from one POV). Just throwing that out there...! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alder24 Posted March 22, 2023 Report Share Posted March 22, 2023 29 minutes ago, robardin said: OK, but why fixate on Dalinar? It's Taravangian to whom Cultivation said, "all I could do was hope that if you succeeded, my gift would work. That I had changed you into someone who could bear this power with honor." Or should that be with a capital H? Changed Taravangian into someone who could bear Odium with Honor? After all, they have just discovered the Rhythm of War, the harmonizing of Odium and Honor. And the only reason Rayse had not been wont to take up Shards but perma-Splintered them instead was because he had been "ruled by the power" into hating all the others (from one POV). Just throwing that out there...! Well, because Dalinar was also touched by Cultivation, like Taravangian, and he is also currently bonded to the biggest remnants of Honor. He has the greatest Connection to Honor right now, and this helps a lot with Ascending. And Taravangian comment on Cultivation's words sums it up perfectly "Oh, you wonderful creature, he thought. You have no idea what you have done." He isn't very honorable, not like Dalinar is. But it's possible, I admit it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+robardin he/him Posted March 22, 2023 Report Share Posted March 22, 2023 Just now, alder24 said: Well, because Dalinar was also touched by Cultivation, like Taravangian, and he is also currently bonded to the biggest remnants of Honor. He has the greatest Connection to Honor right now, and this helps a lot with Ascending. And Taravangian comment on Cultivation's words sums it up perfectly "Oh, you wonderful creature, he thought. You have no idea what you have done." He isn't very honorable, not like Dalinar is. But it's possible, I admit it. Oh, Dalinar is also very much in play as someone who could pick up both Shards of Honor and Odium. I mean, his deep Connection with the Thrill says as much. But I am in the group of people who firmly believe Cultivation most definitely did have a good idea of what she'd done. You don't pull off a subtle "pruning" as she did, and having been Cultivation for so long to practice with it, without knowing the target very well, for both Dalinar and Taravangian. So when she uses that very specific turn of phrase in addressing the New Odium in Taravangian, just consider for a moment that she knows way more of what is going on - and yet to go on - in that moment than Taravangian would. It's just more of his "overconfidence in his own assessment/intelligence" nature coming through (which was always a character trait of his, separate from his boon/curse cycle). As for how Taravangian might be Connected enough to Honor to pick it up - he has always been "letter of the law" honorable, I think. Putting on a false face and showing people what they expect to see is not breaking any contract, and for all his lying to Dalinar's coalition's face (and betraying them on the field), he would argue that he was simply holding fast to his prior and higher contract - to save as much as he could of Roshar from Odium's inescapable wrath with the Diagram's guidance. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alder24 Posted March 22, 2023 Report Share Posted March 22, 2023 (edited) 14 minutes ago, robardin said: As for how Taravangian might be Connected enough to Honor to pick it up - he has always been "letter of the law" honorable, I think. Putting on a false face and showing people what they expect to see is not breaking any contract, and for all his lying to Dalinar's coalition's face (and betraying them on the field), he would argue that he was simply holding fast to his prior and higher contract - to save as much as he could of Roshar from Odium's inescapable wrath with the Diagram's guidance. I don't agree that he is honorable. Sending the assassin to kill rulers across the whole Roshar isn't honorable. Kidnapping people from streets isn't honorable, killing them in back rooms of his hospitals isn't honorable. Starting a brutal civil war in Jah Keved isn't honorable. Betraying Dalinar in OB (before making any pact with Odium) isn't honorable at all. Saying that killing all three suspects if one of the three committed a murder, and you don't know who did it, isn't honorable. He is far from Honor. But all of these actions were definitely Passionable and driven by his Passions. Edited March 22, 2023 by alder24 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Letryx13 Posted March 23, 2023 Report Share Posted March 23, 2023 22 hours ago, alder24 said: I don't agree that he is honorable. Sending the assassin to kill rulers across the whole Roshar isn't honorable. Kidnapping people from streets isn't honorable, killing them in back rooms of his hospitals isn't honorable. Starting a brutal civil war in Jah Keved isn't honorable. Betraying Dalinar in OB (before making any pact with Odium) isn't honorable at all. Saying that killing all three suspects if one of the three committed a murder, and you don't know who did it, isn't honorable. He is far from Honor. But all of these actions were definitely Passionable and driven by his Passions. I agree. Taravangian isn't honorable, he's prideful. He thinks he knows what's best for everyone, and the lion's share of his motivation for doing everything he's done was to prove all the people that called him stupid were wrong. If he was honorable, he would have been able to admit to his mistakes, including those from the diagram. I've also thought for a long time that someone would re-forge the shard of Honor and take it up. But considering what happened with two other shards on another planet, I think it's likely to be someone we wouldn't normally expect. Sanderson's pretty good at pulling off those sorts of surprises. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alder24 Posted March 23, 2023 Report Share Posted March 23, 2023 1 minute ago, Letryx13 said: I've also thought for a long time that someone would re-forge the shard of Honor and take it up. But considering what happened with two other shards on another planet, I think it's likely to be someone we wouldn't normally expect. Sanderson's pretty good at pulling off those sorts of surprises. Yup, the other person whom I consider that might take up the Shard of Honor is Kaladin. He is called the Son of Tanavest by Stormfather, while others are called Child of Honor. And there is a reason for it. Spoiler Winds Alight (paraphrased) In SA the Stormfather refers to several people as "Child of Honor", but only Kaladin as "Child of Tanavast". Is there significance to that? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) Yes, there is. Stuttgart signing (May 17, 2019) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Letryx13 Posted March 23, 2023 Report Share Posted March 23, 2023 24 minutes ago, alder24 said: Yup, the other person whom I consider that might take up the Shard of Honor is Kaladin. He is called the Son of Tanavest by Stormfather, while others are called Child of Honor. And there is a reason for it. Reveal hidden contents Winds Alight (paraphrased) In SA the Stormfather refers to several people as "Child of Honor", but only Kaladin as "Child of Tanavast". Is there significance to that? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) Yes, there is. Stuttgart signing (May 17, 2019) I've thought that too, but I'm hoping it actually means that Kaladin is directly descended from Tanavast. Personally, I'd love for a singer to take up the shard. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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