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Radiant Platespren


TheSurvivorofDeath

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We know the spren that make Plate for two of the orders, and I can think of a few more that might be the spren of other orders.

Windrunners: Windspren

Elsecallers: Logicspren

Edgedancers: Lifespren

Lightweavers: Creationspren

Dustbringers: Decayspren/ Rotspren 

Skybreakers: Gravitationspren

Those are all I can come up with, and it leaves three orders that have Plate. Any ideas?

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Starspren for Skybreakers who have Highspren for Radiant spren, looking like a black tear in the air with stars shining within. I don't know how much clearer I can get :P 

Gloryspren for Bondsmiths, pretty obvious after OB. But it's likely each Bondsmith gets his own plate spren.

Firespren for Dustbringers also fit well.

Captivityspren for Willshapers.

Concentrationspren for Truthwatchers because of their scholarly focus.

And Stonewards - Coldspren (because it's on peaks of the mountains so they are close to Peakspren), or Rockspren (if they exist), or I like the Idea proposed in a previous topic like this, Painspren.

 

And of course, I will repeat myself one more time: #HungersprenForLift!

Edited by alder24
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19 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Starspren for Skybreakers who have Highspren for Radiant spren, looking like a black tear in the air with stars shining within. I don't know how much clearer I can get :P 

Gloryspren for Bondsmiths, pretty obvious after OB. But it's likely each Bondsmith gets his own plate spren.

Firespren for Dustbringers also fit well.

Captivityspren for Willshapers.

Concentrationspren for Truthwatchers because of their scholarly focus.

And Stonewards - Coldspren (because it's on peaks of the mountains so they are close to Peakspren), or Rockspren (if they exist), or I like the Idea proposed in a previous topic like this, Painspren.

 

And of course, I will repeat myself one more time: #HungersprenForLift!

Starspren for Skybreakers is possible. Starspren are rare but also a lot larger so you probably wouldn’t need as many to make a full set of Plate. Historically, Bondsmiths haven’t had Blades or Plate, but times have changed so it’s possible. The others make sense. It’s possible there is a Stonespren, likely originating from the Shin worship of stone, for the Stonewards, or Painspren work as well.

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3 minutes ago, TheSurvivorofDeath said:

Starspren are rare

Rarity doesn't matter when Logicspren are plate spren, and they are extremely rare on the east, almost not appearing there. And Starspren are visible in the night sky, Kaladin described few as soon as in WoK, they are not that rare.

Quote

It was the time between moons, and so he was lit mostly by the firelight; there was a spray of stars in the sky above. Several of those moved about, the tiny pinpricks of light chasing after one another, zipping around like distant, glowing insects. - WoK ch 40

 

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4 hours ago, alder24 said:

Rarity doesn't matter when Logicspren are plate spren, and they are extremely rare on the east, almost not appearing there. And Starspren are visible in the night sky, Kaladin described few as soon as in WoK, they are not that rare.

 

Starspren may be too big to be Plate spren. They seem closer to mandras than windspren or other lower spren, and while that obviously doesn't prevent them from forming bonds, I do think they are in a higher 'tier' than Platespren.

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An important note to consider

Spoiler

ParshendiOfRhuidean

Is there a connection between the roles of a certain order of Knight Radiant and the singer form associated with their Platespren, such as artistic Lightweavers and artform both having creation spren?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, there is a connection, a deliberate connection on my part there. It's hard to keep all of these things one-to-one because there are way more forms than there are orders of Knights Radiant and things like that, so don't read too far into it, but I do make those connections deliberately where I can.

YouTube Spoiler Stream 5 (Dec. 2, 2022)

 

Skybreaker: Starspren, based on similarity to highspren

Dustbringer: Flamespren, cause Ashspren, and well, fire.

Edgedanncer: Lifespren, which is obvious

Truthwatcher: Concentrationspren?

Willshaper: No clue

Stoneward: Painspren, because warform uses painspren

Bondsmith: Gloryspren

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Logic Spren are probably only rare in Alethkar where people think with their swords.

Probably much more common in Azir.

I still think Starspren are too big and rare to be plate

Also, people saying that Starspren are similar to Highspren, the known plate Spren have variable amounts of relation to the bond Spren.

Team Gravitationspren!

Also, wouldn’t be surprised if each Bondsmith uses a different plate Spren as their bond Spren are fairly unique.

Truthwatcher:  Water Spren or rain Spren

Stoneward:  Rock spren

Releasers:  Fire Spren 

Because….may as well represent all 4 elements.

Willshaper:  Anticipation Spren (just a feeling I have)

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Marabout said:

I still think Starspren are too big and rare to be plate

Starspren aren't that rare, we see them several times. They might be rare in the Cognitive realm, but so are Windspren.

5 minutes ago, Marabout said:

Also, people saying that Starspren are similar to Highspren, the known plate Spren have variable amounts of relation to the bond Spren.

Windspren and Honorspren look identicle in the Physical realm.

Lifespren and Vines go together on Roshar

Creationspren and Cryptics both change shape constantly

Logicspren are described as stormclouds, but that looks the same as ink blobs.

Flamespren and Ashspren glow orange and spark.

We haven't seen the others in the PR, but they do all seem to have similar charactaristics.

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Just now, Marabout said:

You are wrong, star Spren are rare

Kaladin sees multiple at once in WoK, Venli mentions them in OB as something that you see often enough.

Aside from Shallan mentioning it, when referring to the CR, do you have a single piece of evidence to back that claim?

3 minutes ago, Marabout said:

Wind has nothing to do with Honor,

Syl says the Winds are of Honor several times.

3 minutes ago, Marabout said:

Honorspren can take any form they want, what other Honorspren do we see imitating wind Spren?

They look like tiny glowing blue people, so do Windspren, in fact looking like anything other than Windspren is the exception, not the norm.

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Wrong again

Wind Spren are amorphous, may appear as a ribbon of light without form.  Wind Spren do Not look like little blue people.

Anyway, not going to argue with you, you don’t change your mind or consider alternatives when you get an idea in your head.

I at least will concede that star Spren are a possibility (although highly unlikely)

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51 minutes ago, Marabout said:

Wrong again

Wind Spren are amorphous, may appear as a ribbon of light without form.  Wind Spren do Not look like little blue people.

How does Syl repeatedly trick people into assuming she is a windspren when she appears as a little blue person then?

Not to mention that during WoK that was her most common form and Kaladin never once remarks that windspren don't look like that.

2 hours ago, Marabout said:

Anyway, not going to argue with you, you don’t change your mind or consider alternatives when you get an idea in your head.

Please refrain from Ad Homenim, thank you.

2 hours ago, Marabout said:

I at least will concede that star Spren are a possibility (although highly unlikely)

Thank you.

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As I figure it:

Skybreaker - starspren

Dustbringer - flamespren

Truthwatcher - luckspren/mandras

Willshaper - musicspren

Stoneward - maybe stonespren but unclear, could even be gloryspren

Bondsmith - might vary but not clear if that's between the individual people or the spren, I'm hoping riverspren will make an appearance

 

@Marabout, on Roshar Honour is inherently linked to wind through the highstorms. Honourspren almost exclusively take on the form of wind-related phenomena; blowing leaves, sailing ship, mist. Also:

Quote

Another one, then another. Ribbons of light, occasionally taking the shapes of young women or men, laughing. Windspren.
-Words of Radiance, page 509

7 hours ago, Frustration said:

Kaladin sees multiple at once in WoK, Venli mentions them in OB as something that you see often enough.

Kaladin sees one. You're forgetting that a whole swarm of 'stars' is actually just one starspren, making them fairly rare. That said, since they can only be seen from certain angles they may be more common than Rosharans think. Also, I support the small number of starspren to a Shardplate theory.

On the Stoneward-painspren idea, I had the same thought, but I've since come to the conclusion that both warform and workform correspond to the Bondsmiths, if any Order. Both forms, on rediscovery, caused the singers to hear a Shardic Tone, which we don't hear about for any other forms. The logic for the spren causing the form is also different: instead of aspirational (singer loves, attracts lifespren, takes on life-giving form), its reactionary (heavy object, attracts gravitationspren, take on workform to move the object). So I figure workform and warform are godforms, possibly devised by Cultivation and Honour, respectively.

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5 minutes ago, in Truth,watcher of tv said:

Kaladin sees one. You're forgetting that a whole swarm of 'stars' is actually just one starspren, making them fairly rare.

You're forgetting that he saw them chasing each other, not flying in formation, meaning there had to be multiple.

7 minutes ago, in Truth,watcher of tv said:

On the Stoneward-painspren idea, I had the same thought, but I've since come to the conclusion that both warform and workform correspond to the Bondsmiths, if any Order. Both forms, on rediscovery, caused the singers to hear a Shardic Tone, which we don't hear about for any other forms. The logic for the spren causing the form is also different: instead of aspirational (singer loves, attracts lifespren, takes on life-giving form), its reactionary (heavy object, attracts gravitationspren, take on workform to move the object). So I figure workform and warform are godforms, possibly devised by Cultivation and Honour, respectively.

We also don't see any other forms on rediscovery.

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6 minutes ago, Frustration said:

You're forgetting that he saw them chasing each other, not flying in formation, meaning there had to be multiple.

That's how he interprets their movements because he thinks each light is an individual. Isn't "chasing each other" just 'following each other'?

9 minutes ago, Frustration said:

We also don't see any other forms on rediscovery.

We don't see workform on rediscovery, but it is specifically referenced regarding the Pure Tone when no others are. The singers are awed by hearing the Tone, if it happened every time I would think they would act differently.

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Just now, in Truth,watcher of tv said:

That's how he interprets their movements because he thinks each light is an individual. Isn't "chasing each other" just 'following each other'?

He thinks of windspren flying in formation, despite being different lights. Chasing each other implies a chaos of motion that one individual could not achieve.

1 minute ago, in Truth,watcher of tv said:

We don't see workform on rediscovery, but it is specifically referenced regarding the Pure Tone when no others are. The singers are awed by hearing the Tone, if it happened every time I would think they would act differently.

It's not every time, just at the discovery, probably at the discovery of the first form attuned to each shard, much like how the first Aon Raoden drew was more powerful, but the other were regular strength.

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5 hours ago, Frustration said:

He thinks of windspren flying in formation, despite being different lights. Chasing each other implies a chaos of motion that one individual could not achieve.

Moving together in a group is part of the concept of windspren, separate things being connected as part of a greater whole is likely part of the concept of starspren. And starspren have many limbs and many segments, of course all those different moving parts will look a bit chaotic, I wasn't suggesting the lights moved all together in synchrony.

5 hours ago, Frustration said:

It's not every time, just at the discovery, probably at the discovery of the first form attuned to each shard, much like how the first Aon Raoden drew was more powerful, but the other were regular strength.

Yes, the release of backed up Investiture, that's what I'm talking about. We don't hear about the Tones for mateform or nimbleform even though those would be the closest to the Shards (lifspren and possibly windspren respectively). Of course, it's not clear if they ever stopped using mateform, and nimbleform came after warform, but by my other reasoning war- and workform still stand out from others. Plus, platespren are naturally attracted to the effects of the Surgebinding (windspren to flying Windrunners, creationspren to the art and illusions of Lightweavers), I don't see why Stoneward Surgebinding would attract painspren, or how they are related to peakspren. Stonespren seems more suitable, but I'm reserving judgment until we learn more about them, hopefully in SA5 with the Stone Shamans.

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8 hours ago, in Truth,watcher of tv said:

Yes, the release of backed up Investiture, that's what I'm talking about. We don't hear about the Tones for mateform or nimbleform even though those would be the closest to the Shards (lifspren and possibly windspren respectively). Of course, it's not clear if they ever stopped using mateform, and nimbleform came after warform, but by my other reasoning war- and workform still stand out from others. Plus, platespren are naturally attracted to the effects of the Surgebinding (windspren to flying Windrunners, creationspren to the art and illusions of Lightweavers), I don't see why Stoneward Surgebinding would attract painspren, or how they are related to peakspren. Stonespren seems more suitable, but I'm reserving judgment until we learn more about them, hopefully in SA5 with the Stone Shamans.

How would Elsecalling attract logicspren?

And Lift attracted windspren when using abrasion to move quickly.

And are stonespren even known to exist?

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10 hours ago, Frustration said:

How would Elsecalling attract logicspren?

Well, we haven't seen much of how the Elsecallers operate, but I would imagine it's the accurate translation from Cognitive to Physical and vice versa; like how inkspren manifest, or a good argument. They're also meant to be logistical geniuses, so that would draw logicspren.

10 hours ago, Frustration said:

And Lift attracted windspren when using abrasion to move quickly.

Ok, and a Full Lashing attracts bindspren. Lifespren have reacted to both her Surges and she likely has Resonances which match them even better.

10 hours ago, Frustration said:

And are stonespren even known to exist?

Venli communes with them when she first accesses Cohesion, but we barely know anything about them, which is why I said I would wait for more info.

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23 hours ago, Frustration said:

And are stonespren even known to exist?

Syl said that everything has a spren sooo.

But I guess because we never saw any mention of a Rock/Stone spren, it won't be a plate spren, yet there is still a chance.

Spoiler

Dominic Field

If Kaladin's Shardplate is made of windspren, would the other Orders also have Shardplate made of lesser spren?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes!

Dominic Field

Would Lightweavers have Plate made up of creationspren, for instance?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, they would. You should be able to guess, for the major Orders that we've spent a lot of time with, what their Shardplate is made out of. There have been hints from book one what those are. Theoretically, you should be able to kind of put that together. You're not gonna be able to put it together for some of the Orders, 'cause we just haven't gotten into it as much; we haven't spent enough time with them. But you should be able to start putting this all together in relationship to the Shardplate. At least there's three or four of them that I think I've made very obvious.

YouTube Spoiler Stream 1 (Dec. 17, 2020)

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Here's another way to look at things, through the surges:

(Windrunner) Adhesion + Gravitation = The surge of keeping matter together mixed with pushing and pulling = wind

(Skybreaker) Gravitation + Division = The surge of pushing and pulling matter mixed with the granulation(dust) of said matter = star

What is a star if not a ball of gravity and spacedust

(Dustbringer) Division + Abrasion = The surge of disintegration matter into dust mixed with the force resisting the relative motion of said matter(friction) = ash

And so on...

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