If you were a fullborn, what would you use your powers for?

[Returned]

I'd definitely go full secrecy, including a secret identity if I had to use my powers openly.

As for what I'd use the powers for... "evil" is probably the most succinct description. (Not really, but I'm sure some would find some of my applications... questionable).

As far as tasers go, I'd think that pewter would do a lot for you in terms of resisting them. Really, all of the things that the real world could bring to bear on a Fullborn have Metallic Arts solutions (or at least workarounds), provided that you've thought ahead and prepared. Being surprised is pretty dangerous for anyone.

[StanLemon]

I think governments would be afraid to anger a Fullborn if they know how powerful they are. Sure a government could theoretically take down a Fullborn, but a Fullborn almost certainly could kill a sizeable number of the government's leadership long before that happens. A Fullborn would be the ultimate guerilla war combatant. 

An example, imagine the US tries take down a Fullborn. The Fullborn would easily be able to able to escape any ground based assaults. Fullborn superspeeds themselves to DC assaults Congress and The White House. Considering Wax was able blow through a stone wall by Pushing on the trace metals, I doubt there are any barriers that would truly be able to stop them. Even if DC leadership has vacated to a safe location, Fortune will almost certainly let them know what they need to do next. Powerful Soothing/Rioting to make people talk like TLR was able to make Vin talk, a Fullborn is an army unto themselves.

[Ati16 he/him]

15 hours ago, Frustration said:

Take away your metals and there isn't much you can do.

Actually they can't take away all your metalminds if you hide them well. If I would be a fullborn, I would create some extremely powerful metalminds and then I would hide them inside my body via surgery. If someone would capture you and take away your metalminds you could make them think that your harmless and then at the right moment escape.

[alder24]

17 minutes ago, Ati16 said:

Actually they can't take away all your metalminds if you hide them well. If I would be a fullborn, I would create some extremely powerful metalminds and then I would hide them inside my body via surgery. If someone would capture you and take away your metalminds you could make them think that your harmless and then at the right moment escape.

Airport security would be a nightmare for you. How do you explain them that you have a big chunk of metals inside your body just sitting there? Also, they can extract them from you with powerful magnets, which won't be hard. They can just put you in or next to MRI. If they already know that your powers come from metal, they would check you with metal detector.

3 hours ago, StanLemon said:

I think governments would be afraid to anger a Fullborn if they know how powerful they are. Sure a government could theoretically take down a Fullborn, but a Fullborn almost certainly could kill a sizeable number of the government's leadership long before that happens. A Fullborn would be the ultimate guerilla war combatant. 

Fullborn would be a threat to government, and people are stupid, they fear what they don't know and what is more powerful than them - they would target you just to "harness" your power. And if they can't control you, they would try to kill you. Fullborn can do damage, but they are far from being invincible. Powerfull explosion would melt and vaporize your metalminds instantly, depriving you out of your most powerful tools. And you sure know how many explosives US government can send at you? Regular explosion, which would rip apart your body, throwing away your metalminds, would be deadly for a Fullborn. And I'm not gonna even mention 14000 nuclear warheads across the world. 

3 hours ago, StanLemon said:

I doubt there are any barriers that would truly be able to stop them.

Plane 10km above your head. Ship in the middle of ocean. Submarine. Aluminum - which is used everywhere - sooner or later they will realise that you can't push aluminum away, and that will be your end. 

 

Fullborn doesn't look that powerful in our world, sure he can do some cool stuff, but technology and modern industry can outdone him in every aspect. Even in Fortune, AI can predict his movements better than he can use Fortune (it is more like a gut feeling and coincidences, than a future visions). 

[Ati16 he/him]

10 hours ago, alder24 said:

Airport security would be a nightmare for you. How do you explain them that you have a big chunk of metals inside your body just sitting there? Also, they can extract them from you with powerful magnets, which won't be hard. They can just put you in or next to MRI. If they already know that your powers come from metal, they would check you with metal detector.

With large amounts of duralumin and iron you can resist even a powerful magnet by pulling you metalminds back into your body (assuming your a very powerful allomancer so you can pull such heavily invested objects). If your captors see that their powerful magnets are not working, they might assume that their metal detectors are faulty.

Edited January 7, 2023 by Ati16
Storming autocorrect

[alder24]

Just now, Ati16 said:

With large amounts of duralumin and iron you can resist even a powerful magic by pulling you metalminds back into your body (assuming your a very powerful allomancer so you can pull such heavily invested objects). If your captors see that their powerful magnets are not working, they might assume that their metal detectors are faulty.

Duralumin grants one time only pull - magnets work all the time. So you would use your one Duralumin pull, but magnet would still pull your Metalminds away from you, leaving you with big hole and no healing. And you wouldn't be that powerful (you're not Lord Ruler) to pull full metalminds back to you without Duralumin - even with it might not be as strong as magnet's pull. Magnets can be insanely strong. Still, that piece of metal would ripped your insides apart when pulled by you (as they are pulled to the middle of your chest, not just to you) - which might be visible. And no, they won't assume metal detectors are faulty - it's like assuming they are stupid.

[MangoBoi101 he/him]

Personally I dont think they could catch you, or if they did, they could not hold you for long. Basically one trace of the right metal and you have a lot of power. as for tasers you could push them away forming a bubble like what wax used as for a tank you can increase your weight and duralium push on top of it and its gone, as for an airplane 10km above your head thats made of aluminum so you cant push it, you just have to have a bag of coins, every missile they shoot, you hit with a coin every bullet they shoot you push away if they get to close you can launch a coin at them. also am I the only one who thought of going straight to Brandon Sanderson and asking him to explain every little bit of how this magic works then telling him that I have the fullborn powers?

Edited January 7, 2023 by MangoBoi101

[alder24]

35 minutes ago, MangoBoi101 said:

as for an airplane 10km above your head thats made of aluminum so you cant push it, you just have to have a bag of coins, every missile they shoot, you hit with a coin every bullet they shoot you push away if they get to close you can launch a coin at them.

Airplane is too far away from you and you can't push on it or even send something so high away. Even 1km above the ground would be unreachable for a Fullborn. Vin at best could Duralumin steel pushed herself just several hundreds meters away (WoA saving Breeze and killing Straff), without Duralumin, just dozens, or so, meters, no higher. You can't fly, planes can.

Missiles are moving very fast. Extremely fast. And they won't explode when they're touched, they detonate using radar, sound waves, a magnetic sensor, or a laser to tell them how far away from the target they are. They can correct their path. Intercepting them with coins would be very, very hard and it would still do nothing, as coin is to light and to slow to do any damage to rocket. You can't push rocket away with steel, allomancy doesn't have that great range - and rockets are moving very fast and would cover that range in less than a second. Even if you manage to push it away and it explodes, you would be in range of explosion and they can just send a bigger one, that would kill you from that range.

TLM spoilers

Spoiler

even in TLM they knew pushing rocket is not possible as it moves too fast, and will be in range of steelpush just shortly before hitting its target.

 

You're a Fullborn - but I doubt you will get to Lord Ruler or Bands level of Fullborn. Regular Kelsier level, at best Elend level from Lerasium. That's still not enough to deal with modern equipment. They only need to wait a day or so, for your metals to get expelled from your body, if they catch you. Then you just a human.

Edited January 7, 2023 by alder24

[MangoBoi101 he/him]

Ok what about atium You know the missile is coming about 3 seconds before it hits, you use duralium to push it (or you) out of the way fast enough (another option would be to use F-steel to get out of the way) once your out of the immediate blast radius you can just use compounded healing. My point is that within 3 seconds a fullborn could get Very far away at least enough to heal using gold. But other then that im not sure how you would take a jet down So run and hide.

Edited January 7, 2023 by MangoBoi101

[alder24]

18 minutes ago, MangoBoi101 said:

Ok what about atium You know the missile is coming about 3 seconds before it hits, you use duralium to push it (or you) out of the way fast enough (another option would be to use F-steel to get out of the way) once your out of the immediate blast radius you can just use compounded healing. My point is that within 3 seconds a fullborn could get Very far away at least enough to heal using gold. But other then that im not sure how you would take a jet down So run and hide.

Atium exist in Cosmere, not on Earth.

ICBM can reach speed of 7km/s - Atium won't help you. All missiles are hypersonic, so they are faster than 343m/s. Many travels up to 5 times speed of sound (1.7km/s). Good luck pushing it away with steel.  And planes and drones can track your heat signature and hit you with bunker buster rockets, which can penetrate a lot of concrete.

Edit - Not to mention small tactical nuclear weapons, which would vaporize you instantly, or strategic ones from which you can't run away, as they create fireball several kilometers in diameter.

Edited January 7, 2023 by alder24

[StanLemon]

4 hours ago, alder24 said:

Fullborn would be a threat to government, and people are stupid, they fear what they don't know and what is more powerful than them - they would target you just to "harness" your power. And if they can't control you, they would try to kill you. Fullborn can do damage, but they are far from being invincible. Powerfull explosion would melt and vaporize your metalminds instantly, depriving you out of your most powerful tools. And you sure know how many explosives US government can send at you? Regular explosion, which would rip apart your body, throwing away your metalminds, would be deadly for a Fullborn. And I'm not gonna even mention 14000 nuclear warheads across the world. 

They aren't likely to start carpet bombing their own cities to take you out unless you start going on a crazy power trip first. At least in democracies. 

[Frustration he/him]

1 hour ago, StanLemon said:

They aren't likely to start carpet bombing their own cities to take you out unless you start going on a crazy power trip first. At least in democracies. 

Who says only the domestic government would respond?

Every government would have their eyes on someone with that level of power, and those that could would try to harness it for themselves.

[StanLemon]

8 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Who says only the domestic government would respond?

Every government would have their eyes on someone with that level of power, and those that could would try to harness it for themselves.

True, but would you be willing to start a war over it? Especially when said superhuman might survive and join the victim nation against you?

I'm not saying that a modern military couldn't stop a Fullborn, but that a Fullborn would be able to make any nation world leader pay dearly for it as a Fullborn could realistically bypass the rank and file and target leaders. It would most likely be a pyrrhic victim for any nation 

Edited January 7, 2023 by StanLemon

[alder24]

1 hour ago, StanLemon said:

They aren't likely to start carpet bombing their own cities to take you out unless you start going on a crazy power trip first. At least in democracies. 

Who said to carpet bomb the city? Blowing up single house would kill Fullborn. With enough planning and spying with cameras, drones and agents, they could pin point his location and send fast rocket that he won't avoid. 

[StanLemon]

2 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Who said to carpet bomb the city? Blowing up single house would kill Fullborn. With enough planning and spying with cameras, drones and agents, they could pin point his location and send fast rocket that he won't avoid. 

Doesn't need to avoid, if it's indoors, an explosion limited to a house isn't going to stop a Fullborn. If they are outside it is well within reason that a Fullborn would notice it coming via Steel lines and enhanced senses and could Push the thing way. They would have to use ordinances meant for taking out city blocks.

To create a noticeable vacuum like Marasi did in BoM she would have had to be moving fast enough to be comparable to some of the fastest missiles on earth. Time bubbles as shown in AoL can compress time enough to watch an explosion in slow motion. Miles shows Gold Compounding can have enough health to casually heal before even fully sustaining the injury, so unless ordinances are strong enough to instantly vaporize the Fullborn it won't be enough. Marsh could see quite the distance with Steelsight. And in all likelihood constantly tapping Fortune would protect them from such sneak attacks in the first place

[Returned]

Just constantly compounding gold is likely sufficient to overcome any physical damage that could be inflicted on a Fullborn. I'm not sure if we know an upper limit to what that can fix, but when Miles sets off dynamite in his own hand and is fine immediately afterwards we're at a point where physical damage simply isn't going to be enough to put a Fullborn down. Unless you can catch them unprepared and not compounding. But if that's a Fullborn's only meaningful vulnerability, and they know it, then that's unlikely to happen.

If you can trap and confine a Fullborn and remove their access to metals you'll be able to cut off their access to more power, potentially forcing them to drain what they've stored until they're as mundane as anyone else (that's how Miles was executed). Anyone can be deceived or tricked, from the lowliest street urchin to Ruin itself. But a prison that could hold a Fullborn with lots of stored attributes seems hard to devise.

A Fullborn, regardless of magical strength, is going to be able to compound attributes in ways that make pretty much any attack (or even direct opposition) ineffective as long as the Fullborn can conceive of it. And unlimited access to zinc and copper would tend to let the Fullborn outclass a non-magical person on those fronts, too. We still don't even know the extent of what compounding can do, or even some Feruchemy. If a Feruchemist constantly dumps Identity into aluminum, could they even be identified and located? Who knows? I doubt that there is going to be a generic way to stop a creature with such versatile power, and so much of it, without their adversary having access to magic too.

Edited January 7, 2023 by Returned

[StanLemon]

Considering the tidbits we do know about Fortune, I feel like that power more than any other would be useful for a Fullborn. Even if it is just powerful 'gut reactions' as to what to do, constantly tapping it would more or less make it so that a Fullborn is never put into a vulnerable situation.

[alder24]

3 minutes ago, StanLemon said:

Doesn't need to avoid, if it's indoors, an explosion limited to a house isn't going to stop a Fullborn. If they are outside it is well within reason that a Fullborn would notice it coming via Steel lines and enhanced senses and could Push the thing way.

The only thing explosion needs to do is to seperate Fullborn from his metalminds, which can be done. Then he's dead, as he can't heal anymore. Blowing up the house might do it, or not - it depends on many circumstances, but it's doable. Powerfull explosion will do it, no need for evaporation of Fullborn. Rockets can travel up to Mach 5 - it's hard to react to that speed even for Fullborn. While he's inside, he won't be able to react to this for sure. Pushing it away - steel push doesn't have that big range, so you're cutting your reaction time even more, to just miliseconds before explosion - he can push it with F-iron, which would crush the rocket and trigger its explosion, which he would survive most likely. 

10 minutes ago, StanLemon said:

Miles shows Gold Compounding can have enough health to casually heal before even fully sustaining the injury

There is a difference between healing the bullet sent through your head, and your whole body exploded into thousend pieces. Yes he can heal that, but if explosion is just right, it might seperate his metalminds from him, which would stop healing. 

 

 

Time bubbles would be great help for him, for sure. Fortune as well. I'm not arguing that he can't fight effectively against the government, he can, he has many tricks up his sleeve. But our technology is far supperior. Sooner or later he would be killed. He will run out of gold if he has to constantly compound to heal explosions or one of them would kill him. They will figure out fast that he can't push aluminum, and then they will made aluminum missiles. I think he can't heal around aluminum, so a shrapnel in his heart or brain will be draining him constantly, or might be even deadly. He will be constantly watched by satellites and even sonic speed won't make them lose him.

And also government has access to global inteligence - you don't. It's about turning you into Fullborn. Do you know how military works? Do you know from where they command? Do you know where are their secret hideouts? Do you know their procedures? You can fight them, you can kill some officers, but you won't cripple them. You'll be just minor inconvenience.

Yes, Fullborn can do a lot - but he won't win this fight. He won't be able to do that much damage. If he does, then he triggers nuclear responseand will be dead, and they don't have to nuke a city for it. 

[StanLemon]

3 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Time bubbles would be great help for him, for sure. Fortune as well. I'm not arguing that he can't fight effectively against the government, he can, he has many tricks up his sleeve. But our technology is far supperior. Sooner or later he would be killed. He will run out of gold if he has to constantly compound to heal explosions or one of them would kill him. They will figure out fast that he can't push aluminum, and then they will made aluminum missiles. I think he can't heal around aluminum, so a shrapnel in his heart or brain will be draining him constantly, or might be even deadly. He will be constantly watched by satellites and even sonic speed won't make them lose him.

 

If you'll refer to my original post on this subject, I never said that a government couldn't win. In fact I did straight up say they would likely win. The issue is that a Fullborn would make governments pay dearly for it though. The point was that a government would likely be scared to start a conflict with a Fullborn because of the potential losses

3 minutes ago, alder24 said:

And also government has access to global inteligence - you don't. It's about turning you into Fullborn. Do you know how military works? Do you know from where they command? Do you know where are their secret hideouts? Do you know their procedures? You can fight them, you can kill some officers, but you won't cripple them. You'll be just minor inconvenience.

Really? You consider a Fullborn tearing their way through the countries leadership a minor inconvenience? Once the politicians know that the Fullborn isn't targeting soldiers but killing politicians they are much more likely to capitulate. That's the thing, leaders are much more likely to continue an escalation while they feel safe and less so when they feel like they themselves are at risk. Even Putin with his stranglehold on Russia wouldn't be able to continue his war against Ukraine if all the other politicians in Russia knew that Ukraine could potentially systematically assassinate them, for example. Secondly, powerful Soothing/Rioting on officers would eventually get me the information I needed to target critical infrastructure.

3 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Yes, Fullborn can do a lot - but he won't win this fight. He won't be able to do that much damage. If he does, then he triggers nuclear responseand will be dead, and they don't have to nuke a city for it. 

nuclear response without nuking a city...

I'm well aware you mean targeting the Fullborn while they aren't in the city, just felt like odd phrasing. But again, having almost infinite Fortune is almost certainly going to find them a way out of that possibility

[nyxvoid]

brandon has said that there is no upper limit to how much charge feruchemishts can compress at one time  , only limit will available resources  . there is physical strength, physical speed , sences, mental speed ,  energy ,physical weight and health  along with special fortune and connection etc.

AI or any other computer will be far slower once zinc and tin are compound for mental speed and sences.

as for as missiles targeting  , if i know it is coming for me, i would immediately compund iron and pewter , for  heavy weight that will sink in ground . or i would compund steel and escape it . i could become something like hulk with compounding enough pewter simply jump away from targeted are. 

there are a lot of ways one could survive long enough that governments will have to call of these attacks for at least fear of retribution .

i would avoid capture at all costs . even then by  magnatism , they can pull out only iron and steel , again with enough pewter compounding , hulking out of any building would be easy.

pewter compounding will strengthen our body . if one is only using pewter then i think, eventually they would get tired  and won't be able to swing arms , but can be averted by gold compounding or bendalloy compounding for health or energy .

 

and this is by using only feruchemy , allomency could be used at any time to compliment above mentioned abilities and further strengthening body .

 

Edited January 7, 2023 by nyxvoid

[alder24]

5 minutes ago, StanLemon said:

Really? You consider a Fullborn tearing their way through the countries leadership a minor inconvenience? Once the politicians know that the Fullborn isn't targeting soldiers but killing politicians they are much more likely to capitulate. That's the thing, leaders are much more likely to continue an escalation while they feel safe and less so when they feel like they themselves are at risk. Even Putin with his stranglehold on Russia wouldn't be able to continue his war against Ukraine if all the other politicians in Russia knew that Ukraine could potentially systematically assassinate them, for example. Secondly, powerful Soothing/Rioting on officers would eventually get me the information I needed to target critical infrastructure.

They can be placed on plane, ship, submarine, remote island - and if you try to go after them on a plane, they'll just send a rocket to you. I agree, going after politicians will be terrifying, but they can be put on plane cruising 10km above, with aerial refueling, and you can't get them.
Many officers are most likely trained to resist torture, especially those who know secret locations, so emotional allomancy won't do it for them. You can't make up emotion that they don't feel, like willingness to betray their country.

11 minutes ago, StanLemon said:

If you'll refer to my original post on this subject, I never said that a government couldn't win. In fact I did straight up say they would likely win. The issue is that a Fullborn would make governments pay dearly for it though. The point was that a government would likely be scared to start a conflict with a Fullborn because of the potential losses

I know. I also disagree on how much would government have to pay for it, but this might be because I personally wouldn't go that far. But the government would be only fearful of you if you start killing everyone around (including government) you before they detect you. If they detect you first, they will act first, hoping they have upper hand, and that they can stop you before you will cause them problems.

[cometaryorbit]

On 1/5/2023 at 3:18 PM, MangoBoi101 said:

your reply about ethically using some metals might be hard someone above had the opposite view, the view that you have the powers, so why not use them, other people are strong is it ethically wrong to be super strong even when theres people out there who (due to some disability) cant be that strong ever? I think it might be the same thing in that case.

Only ones I had ethical issues on are emotional Allomancy. I can *sort of* see Breeze's argument, but it's a much more dangerous temptation in a world like modern Earth where people don't believe the powers exist. Breeze's comparison to influence by beauty or money might hold on Scadrial where people are aware emotional Allomancy is possible (though I'm not entirely convinced even there). But on Earth where people aren't aware of the possibility, it's definitely[/i] imo not on the same level as influence by beauty or money which people are aware of and thus able to adjust for.

For all the others, yeah, I think they're perfectly ethical if used responsibly.

On 1/5/2023 at 3:18 PM, MangoBoi101 said:

about the finding of the right alloy im sure that would not be to hard if you told someone who knows about that stuff, I mean we know that vin got copper from eating normally so thats one metal which can be found in food, so you can prove that you have the powers to someone else and then they can help you find more alloys. 

otherwise heres a followup question what would you do if you had access to every metal (yes including leriasium).

If I decided not to try to keep the powers secret, yeah, it would be fine.

If secrecy was a goal, though, I'd have to find excuses why I wanted weird specific alloys like 91% tin / 9% lead. Those probably aren't standard, so I'd need to find someone who did metalwork on a small batch level, probably. And I'm not sure I could develop the artistic skills I'd need to cover it up as being an artisan jewelry maker -- I'm really not a hands on person.

With every metal? Including lerasium, so I can make at least one other person Mistborn?

Hmmm.

- Compound enough gold to be basically unkillable.

- put one or more charged goldminds inside my body so I can't lose my healing source

-  just for fun, buy some fantasy replica metal items and use them as metalminds so I can have actually magical versions. (One Ring replica goldmind, etc.)

- Go to a con and beg Brandon to explain how medallions are made. If there turns out to be a non Hemalurgy way to make them, make some. Ability to hand out medallions would be really awesome - I could Compound to make gold medallions which people could use to heal incurable diseases, or cadmium medallions for life support for astronauts and deep-sea divers, etc. Beyond the humanitarian benefits, if I could make an useful product like that rather than it just being *my* superpowers, it'd be a lot safer to reveal my abilities (and selling medallions would be an income source to replenish my supply of the expensive metals).

- If medallions aren't possible, I'd keep the lerasium beads in reserve so that I could give a couple other people powers if needed. (Depends how much lerasium I had access to. If I had a dozen beads or more, it might be safer to reveal what's

one sense, discovery wouldn't maybe be *that* much of a risk - with full Fullborn powers and all metals, I probablywouldn't really be in danger or able to be captured - but I don't want to spend my life fleeing and I don't want to conquer )

(Hilariously, Brandon and the Dragonsteel team would be probably the safest people in the world to reveal the powers too, because any mention of it would be taken as promotion of the series, lol.)

 

--

A modern military would probably, eventually, beat a Fullborn, or at least leave them hunted and isolated*, but it would be far from easy.

I agree that a sufficiently big explosion (separating the metalminds from the largest remaining piece of body) would be fatal even to a Gold Compounder, but that probably means a lot of collateral damage and no guarantee of actually catching them in the explosion.

One of the big questions is how powerful Fortune Compounding would be. It could potentially keep the person from getting into a position where they could be caught in an explosion or captured. Even if they can't see the missile coming, Fortune can. (I definitely don't think modern AI prediction capabilities could beat sufficient Fortune - Fortune accesses the future / Spiritual Realm and so doesn't have to rely on information that's knowable by normal means.)

*Someone Compounding Wakefulness, Speed, and Fortune would probably be impossible to catch, but they could also never rest.

Edited January 8, 2023 by cometaryorbit

[Lord Gregorio he/him]

I'd keep them secret for as long as possible. That way I could mess with people for a while. Then after a while maybe I'd join the police force or become a superhero. I don't honestly know. It's a very intriguing thought. Maybe I'll come back and give a more detailed list in a bit.

[Tglassy]

On 1/7/2023 at 8:37 PM, cometaryorbit said:

Only ones I had ethical issues on are emotional Allomancy. I can *sort of* see Breeze's argument, but it's a much more dangerous temptation in a world like modern Earth where people don't believe the powers exist. Breeze's comparison to influence by beauty or money might hold on Scadrial where people are aware emotional Allomancy is possible (though I'm not entirely convinced even there). But on Earth where people aren't aware of the possibility, it's definitely[/i] imo not on the same level as influence by beauty or money which people are aware of and thus able to adjust for.

For all the others, yeah, I think they're perfectly ethical if used responsibly.

Honestly, I kind of agree with breeze.  There are charismatic people who can do this with words and actions.  They can talk you into anything.  Some people who make their living selling things literally study the psychology, so they know how to act and talk to make you trust them so they'll buy your goods.  And before you say "That's unethical", the advice you typically get when trying to learn how to sell is "Be honroable, be respectful, and believe in your product.  Don't sell something you think isn't a good product, and make sure it's something they need."   It isn't about manipulating people, it's typically about showing them they have a need.  A person well studied in sales techniques can get you to buy pretty much anything they want you to, because they understand how you work, and show you where you have a need you didn't know you had.  This isn't unethical.  It's the way everyone is.  Everyone is trying to get everyone else to do something for them.  Sales people just have a leg up because they study.  Same with mechanics.  Many people have cars, they all break down, a mechanic can fix it himself.  Others have to pay for it.  It's not an exact analogy, but you get what I mean. Just because they study doesn't make it unethical. 

Emotional Alomancy is basically the same thing, except you go about it a different way.  Instead of lowering your blouse so the guy stares at your cleavage while you take his order, you nudge his emotions one way or the other.  People who are slaves of their emotions will be more affected, just like the guy who doens't know how to hold on to his lebido will tip the waitress more.  People who control themselves and don't follow their emotions as much won't.  

And you can't CREATE emotions.  You just reveal them.  They were already feeling that way.  There's just so much going on in our heads that sometimes things get crowded out.  Tindwil and Sazed, for example.  She did like him.  He liked her.  But their other emotions crowded those feelings out.  So Breeze pushed them down, so those other feelings would have a chance to come through.  This isn't unethical.  It's not like he forced them together.  He just helped them feel what they were already feeling.

If you're trying to get a date, you're going to dress a certain way, act a certain way, talk a certain way, to try to get the individual to go out with you.  You're trying ot manipulate them. You're tilting the scales one way or another.  You're hoping whatever you say or do or wear helps them decide to go out with you.  You're using what you know about their emotions to try to influence that.  What makes one way better than another?  Because you're acutally touching their emotions?  Again, you aren't creating emotions.  You're just revealing them.  How many times have we been of two minds about something, only to regret the choice we made because one emotion, usually fear or anxiety, crowds out everything else?  If an Allomancer were to go up to a potential date and riot their sense of attraction and sooth their doubts and worries, how is that any different from trying to act in a way that will sooth their doubts and worries and wearing somethinig that will make them attracted to you?  I honestly don't think it is.  It's just easier.  Besides, if they don't HAVE doubts and worries, and they don't HAVE attraction to you, you can't create it in them. 

Also, Emotional Allomancy doesn't HAVE to be about getting people to do what you want.  It can be about helping people be the best people they can be.  Sooth away their fears, anxieties and worries.  Help them feel more confident and have higher self worth.  So much of what we want to do is stopped because of fear.  I'd hire a Soother just to follow me around and help me not feel so anxious about things.  Literally no different than taking anti anxiety meds, but a lot more reliable.  

[cometaryorbit]

On 1/12/2023 at 8:30 PM, Tglassy said:

Honestly, I kind of agree with breeze.  There are charismatic people who can do this with words and actions.  They can talk you into anything.  Some people who make their living selling things literally study the psychology, so they know how to act and talk to make you trust them so they'll buy your goods.  And before you say "That's unethical", the advice you typically get when trying to learn how to sell is "Be honroable, be respectful, and believe in your product.  Don't sell something you think isn't a good product, and make sure it's something they need."   It isn't about manipulating people, it's typically about showing them they have a need.  A person well studied in sales techniques can get you to buy pretty much anything they want you to, because they understand how you work, and show you where you have a need you didn't know you had.  This isn't unethical.  It's the way everyone is.  Everyone is trying to get everyone else to do something for them.  Sales people just have a leg up because they study.  Same with mechanics.  Many people have cars, they all break down, a mechanic can fix it himself.  Others have to pay for it.  It's not an exact analogy, but you get what I mean. Just because they study doesn't make it unethical. 

Emotional Alomancy is basically the same thing, except you go about it a different way.

That analogy might indeed hold in Scadrial where emotional allomancy is a known thing, but I'd not really feel comfortable with that logic for Earth if I were the only person with the power. People know sales techniques and charisma exist, they don't know or believe that someone can just directly tweak their emotions. It would be far more powerful in a world where no one knows it's possible.

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Also, Emotional Allomancy doesn't HAVE to be about getting people to do what you want.  It can be about helping people be the best people they can be.  Sooth away their fears, anxieties and worries.  Help them feel more confident and have higher self worth.  So much of what we want to do is stopped because of fear.  I'd hire a Soother just to follow me around and help me not feel so anxious about things.  Literally no different than taking anti anxiety meds, but a lot more reliable.  

Hmmm. Now that on the other hand... setting up something like a "relaxation parlor" for people with anxiety problems, phobias etc. ... that would be good.

I wonder what the bad side effects of being a soothing savant are? Because this might be good to have running pretty much all the time...

Edited January 14, 2023 by cometaryorbit