StanLemon Posted November 15, 2022 Report Share Posted November 15, 2022 So it seems that the Ghostbloods on Roshar aren't operating the way that Kelsier would want them, or at least there is dissention in the ranks considering the implication that Iyatil was "running rampant" and that her brother didn't seem happy that Kelsier chose to spare Marasi 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wadders Posted November 15, 2022 Report Share Posted November 15, 2022 Yeah, the scadrial team were definitely pretty different to Mraize's group. I do wonder if they are more circumspect in their operations due to Kell seeing the people of Scadrial as his people. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skaa Posted November 15, 2022 Report Share Posted November 15, 2022 Yeah, on first glance the Scadrial branch looks relatively decent. But then... Quote “We have to help the prisoners,” Marasi said. “A few lives are meaningless right now,” Moonlight said. “We need to keep moving. It’s our way.” It seems to me that Ghostbloods in general share their founder's utilitarianism somewhat. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+robardin Posted November 15, 2022 Report Share Posted November 15, 2022 55 minutes ago, Wadders said: Yeah, the scadrial team were definitely pretty different to Mraize's group. I do wonder if they are more circumspect in their operations due to Kell seeing the people of Scadrial as his people. I think it's more the "Hunters" mentality that Iyatil and her brother descend from, albeit in Silverlight, the City in Shadesmar. Culturally, they are more, well, like Klingons I guess, viewing the world primarily through the lenses of "hunter" vs. "prey", while eliminating rival "hunters" who are going after the same prey who do not ally themselves with you. Since we have WoBs that they were born "abroad" (not on Scadrial but in Silverlight itself), even making the comparison to them being Scadrian in the same way that he (Brandon Sanderson) is "from Denmark, but more recent". Assuming the Sandersons arrived to the United States (as most Scandinavian immigrants did) no earlier than the mid-1800s, that would mean their forebears emigrated from Scadrial to Silverlight well after the Catacendre - likely through Harmony's Perpendicularity, which is described several times as "well to the South" (probably even in the Southern Hemisphere, probably also explaining why that side of the world is where harmonium/ettmetal is found). I wonder what the list of "four primary systems" they cannot travel to via the Cognitive Realm "without extreme danger, if you count Roshar" (an interesting comment there, being as TLM takes place after SA5...). Roshar, this "Bjendel" system, one presumes Sel (as the Splinters of two Shards churn in the Cognitive Realm there), and... Taldain? Somewhere else? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted November 16, 2022 Report Share Posted November 16, 2022 30 minutes ago, robardin said: Roshar, this "Bjendel" system, one presumes Sel (as the Splinters of two Shards churn in the Cognitive Realm there), and... Taldain? Somewhere else? Nalthis. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+robardin Posted November 16, 2022 Report Share Posted November 16, 2022 16 minutes ago, Karger said: Nalthis. I thought Nalthis was like the safest and most commonly trafficked planet for Cosmere worldhoppers… Even having a “customs processing center” in the Cognitive Realm. The way I interpreted Codenames’ comment, “The perpendicularities are no longer viable. They never were good for mass transportation or commerce, no matter how hard those fools on Nalthis try. We need a different…”, was that the Nalthian “customs” thing was based on transportation and commerce via the Cognitive Realm via perpendicularities being the standard model, which have become increasingly dangerous to use for more and more destinations, making a non-perpendicularity way to travel in the Cosmere a goal of the Ghostbloods. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted November 16, 2022 Report Share Posted November 16, 2022 15 minutes ago, robardin said: I thought Nalthis was like the safest and most commonly trafficked planet for Cosmere worldhoppers… Even having a “customs processing center” in the Cognitive Realm. It is safe and highly trafficked. That could be a primary reason the GBs aren't welcome there. They aren't exactly an organization on the up and up and it stands to reason that they wouldn't be friendly. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proletariat Posted November 16, 2022 Report Share Posted November 16, 2022 Yeah, Brandon mentioned that the Ghostbloods outside of Kelsier's control are a bit rogue. Quote Chaos I guess that makes sense, they're all trying to backstab each other. Well no I guess not. Brandon Sanderson No, they're not allowed to backstab each other. [too many people talking at once] [Ghostbloods have]? specific rules, because they need them to be very strong specific rules. If you have an organization of people who are drawn to the way Kelsier works you need some really strong rules. [Hosts laugh] When he is just with his crew, his force of personality, and the people he individually picks you're not gonna have that problem. ... And it's the same thing with Kelsier, in an immediate organization of Kelsier's you're gonna find a well bonded crew of people hand picked who are going to work together as a team, and you aren't going to have to worry about too much about backstabbing - less than average for the type of organization that they are. But if his structure is outside of his direct manipulation, the type of people who would be attracted to the organization he makes... Chaos ...Are not gonna be nice. Brandon Sanderson ...You're gonna have some problems. Mraize would not say that he's not nice. [hosts laughs] Mraize would just say that his niceness is an analogous threshold that does not intersect with the threshold of competence and capability of things he's trying to achieve, those things don't need to overlap in his life. He'd say he's a very nice person. He was very nice to Shallan by his definition. [hosts laugh] He was very nice to Lift by his definition of things. Think of all the things he could have done with Lift, and what did he do? He gave her as a present to an ancient being who ruled the tower, who could properly take care of one such as Lift. Shardcast Interview (Jan. 23, 2021) Quote Questioner Does their leader, Thaidakar, affect what they do a lot? Brandon Sanderson Yes, but the Roshar branch is a little bit removed from him. FanX 2021 (Sept. 17, 2021) And there's also the suggestion that he's lying to the Ghostbloods - at least on Roshar - about his situation going by this WoB: Quote FeatherWriter I have to ask about using the word "avatar" for Thaidakar sending avatars... does Kelsier actually have anything resembling a real avatar or is he just using the word and lying through his teeth? Brandon Sanderson Oh yeah, he's mostly lying through his teeth. Basically — this is not canon, because I might come up with a better [idea] - but in my head, I have him with a large cloak with a Seon on top indicating his face [hosts laugh] It was something along those lines. He wants them to think that he is capable of getting to Roshar in a meaningful, physical way. Spoiler! he can't get off Scadrial, and it's really annoying to him. At least by this point in the continuity, in fact a little past it, because the Wax & Wayne books... Shardcast Interview (Jan. 23, 2021) My guess is that Kelsier's control of the Ghostbloods is a bit fragile, and partly enforced by deception. The crew in TLM are going to be more cohered around his ideas, because he picked them, probably trained them, they're under his direct oversight, and the first tenet of the organisation matters to them but even here there's some conflict. If you look at the team in Roshar they're picked and trained by someone who is potentially even Kelsier's factional rival in the organisation, have no direct contact with Kelsier, and have no loyalty to anything on Roshar outside of their own group. And tbh if Kelsier is hiding his inability to leave the planet (and TLM moment with Marasi hints strongly he's a liar so it's likely), then whatever shred of control he has over the Rosharans will go out the window if it gets out that he's neither a threat nor in keeping with the organisation's own rules. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Oltux72 Posted November 16, 2022 Report Share Posted November 16, 2022 They exist to protect Scadrial. They say so. It is number 1 on the list. Literally and figuratively. Of course they act differently at home and abroad. They simply are nationalists. For a Rosharan or other non-Scadrian to be in an organization dedicated to the protection of an alien world, you need to be, well, let's say, unusual. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScadrianTank Posted November 16, 2022 Report Share Posted November 16, 2022 20 hours ago, skaa said: It seems to me that Ghostbloods in general share their founder's utilitarianism somewhat. They were in the middle of stopping the world from getting nuked and invaded by an alien army. Caring about stray prisoners at that moment is plot armor and protagonist privilege 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+robardin Posted November 16, 2022 Report Share Posted November 16, 2022 3 minutes ago, ScadrianTank said: They were in the middle of stopping the world from getting nuked and invaded by an alien army. Caring about stray prisoners at that moment is plot armor and protagonist privilege I dunno. Preventing their execution by gas should not have been that hard to do - they just kind of messed it up a bit (the two guards were very on point in immediately escaping Marasi's Allomantic Pulser grenade). Assigning one of their three team members to shepherd them up to the surface "to freedom", instead of just leaving them in that room to come back to collect later while sneaking out after eliminating the guards/captors, was less excusable. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Oltux72 Posted November 16, 2022 Report Share Posted November 16, 2022 49 minutes ago, robardin said: I dunno. Preventing their execution by gas should not have been that hard to do - they just kind of messed it up a bit (the two guards were very on point in immediately escaping Marasi's Allomantic Pulser grenade). Doing it unnoticed and quickly was the issue. Just shooting them was not an option. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nesh Posted November 16, 2022 Report Share Posted November 16, 2022 36 minutes ago, Oltux72 said: Doing it unnoticed and quickly was the issue. Just shooting them was not an option. Yeah, I'm all for saving people, but that did kind of nearly cost them the mission. Things would have gone a lot easier if they hadn't had to leave Twinsoul behind so early. He could have fought off the soldiers and Shai wouldn't have had to stamp herself for example. The Ghostbloods are very Vulcan in their approach. "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skaa Posted November 16, 2022 Report Share Posted November 16, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, ScadrianTank said: They were in the middle of stopping the world from getting nuked and invaded by an alien army. Caring about stray prisoners at that moment is plot armor and protagonist privilege I'm just saying. There's a sliding scale of utilitarianism, and Ghostbloods seem to vary from "We can let a few innocent people be murdered if our task is like super urgent" to "We can kill anyone outside our group if it furthers our righteous goals". (I don't know if I'll be like any of them under similar circumstances. I'm not trying to moralize. I'm just stating what I observed.) Edited November 16, 2022 by skaa 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.