Cool Metalborn/Surgebinder Combinations

[Cocoa]

In your opinion, what would make for a particularly fun/cool/interesting powerset for a metalborn character who bonded a radiant spren? For simplicity's sake we'll exclude Mistborn, full Feruchemists, Hemalurgy, and corrupted spren like Glys. Twinborn combinations are allowed, so long as the result is more awesome than the sum of its parts.

First one that comes to mind is a Rioter or Soother who's bonded a cryptic. For one thing, you get to double up on social abilities by mixing lightweaving and emotional allomancy. For another, I'd be curious to see whether you can mesh emotional allomancy with soulcasting to riot or soothe the souls of objects, making it easier to persuade them to change.

[+Invocation]

A-pewter/F-electrum Stoneward. Behold the newest Shard of Adonalsium: Stubbornness.

[lukaash]

This one is kinda obvious, but f-nicrosil and any bond. Infinite stormlight good (maybe. we don't know how nicrosil storing works). I think that windrunner and a f-steel would be a super interesting combination. Because you could store speed when you are falling to control where you are going. Imagine being able to slow down to a pin where to are just hovering. Making like, a million lashing at once and then storing all of that speed in the steel. Maybe you release it all at once, and then pew like a slingshot. 

Another cool one would be f-cadium and elsecaller. It would make it much easier to travel the ocean of beads. You would never have to breath. 

[JustQuestin2004]

4 hours ago, lukaash said:

This one is kinda obvious, but f-nicrosil and any bond. Infinite stormlight good (maybe. we don't know how nicrosil storing works). I think that windrunner and a f-steel would be a super interesting combination. Because you could store speed when you are falling to control where you are going. Imagine being able to slow down to a pin where to are just hovering. Making like, a million lashing at once and then storing all of that speed in the steel. Maybe you release it all at once, and then pew like a slingshot. 

I think you mean F-Iron, storing F-Steel doesn't mean you fall slower, you're just storing your bodies ability to move fast, like when you store you feel like you're moving through water.

As my combination, I'd say Bondsmith with F-Duralumin, I'd love to see what kind of Connection BS they'd be able to pull of if they were able to alter their own Connections with ease.

[lukaash]

15 hours ago, JustQuestin2004 said:

I think you mean F-Iron, storing F-Steel doesn't mean you fall slower, you're just storing your bodies ability to move fast, like when you store you feel like you're moving through water.

Ah. I still think it is interesting. The idea of flying through air at super speed is awesome.

[JustQuestin2004]

3 hours ago, lukaash said:

Ah. I still think it is interesting. The idea of flying through air at super speed is awesome.

Yeah, it'd also be more efficient by using less Stormlight for the same result. Like Storing 80% of your weight then flying around with a Quarter-Lashing for a few hours.

It wouldn't be anywhere near as efficient as the flying Fused who can just float forever, but it'd be a close second.

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

Edgedancer / crasher would be pretty bananas.  

How would the physics work on that?  Wax says he slows when he becomes heavier and speeds up when he gets lighter mid flight (ballroom discussion).  

If you had zero resistance on you would changing your weight still change how fast you are moving and the momentum?  Or could this be the ultimate wrecking ball?   Push off of something with no air resistance and gliding across the ground or right above it only to become as heavy as a building.  

Shardplate would protect you and you could increase your speed and momentum continually with a push.   When you think shardplate is roughly 1400lbs as it is... you are the weapon at that point.  

I do wonder if Feruchemical duralumin would have helped Shallan win her battle vs that stick... 

[lukaash]

16 hours ago, JustQuestin2004 said:

Yeah, it'd also be more efficient by using less Stormlight for the same result. Like Storing 80% of your weight then flying around with a Quarter-Lashing for a few hours.

It wouldn't be anywhere near as efficient as the flying Fused who can just float forever, but it'd be a close second.

Completely agreed. I wonder if you could store 100% of your weight and use the smallest possible lashing to move around.

[Returned]

A-zinc / F-zinc / Lightweaver, with A-brass / F-zinc / Lightweaver being nearly as good.

It's the ultimate spy combination: look and sound however you need to, with other illusions to support your immediate, unpredictable circumstances, plus getting others to feel the way you need them to and being able to process information at super-speed. The Twinborn combination is the most effective since you can compound the mental speed while also avoiding the drawbacks of storing the attribute in the first place.

And, of course, tons of other exciting combinations exist. Like Bondsmith + anything, really...

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

3 hours ago, lukaash said:

Completely agreed. I wonder if you could store 100% of your weight and use the smallest possible lashing to move around.

Maybe this is just my lack of knowledge.  Does it matter how much of a lashing exactly you use based on weight?   I thought by definition a lashing was just 1x gravity in this direction.  Your base existence is a single lashing downward towards the center of the planet.  

Why would it cost more stormlight to make X gravity on something heavy vs something light?   

I know there are examples of multiple lashings but from my remembrance those lashings all we trying to speed up the process or break something attached in one place to another spot (Gavilars assassination has 2 good examples of multiple lashings being used.  As does kaladin in the arena.)   

Kaladin for example lashed himself toward the shardbearer... he was going to fall downward no matter what.  The speed and force with which he fell was the idea behind his increased lashings.   I don't know that him being lighter or heavier would have impacted the stormlight usage in question.  

I haven't finished oathbringer yet even so perhaps this is answered further down the line.  

Either way I have to agree iron feruchemy in combination with any sort of flight in the cosmere is a game changer and can offer such changes that make the F-iron medallion nearly a mandatory pickup for any S tier flying spec.  

[Mr. Misting]

What I think would be cool is Elsecaller and Lurcher. You could Soulcast an anchor out of anything and then fly towards that object or pull that object towards you. 

Edited September 26, 2022 by Mr. Misting

[JustQuestin2004]

8 hours ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

Maybe this is just my lack of knowledge.  Does it matter how much of a lashing exactly you use based on weight?   I thought by definition a lashing was just 1x gravity in this direction.  Your base existence is a single lashing downward towards the center of the planet.  

Why would it cost more stormlight to make X gravity on something heavy vs something light?   

I know there are examples of multiple lashings but from my remembrance those lashings all we trying to speed up the process or break something attached in one place to another spot (Gavilars assassination has 2 good examples of multiple lashings being used.  As does kaladin in the arena.)   

Kaladin for example lashed himself toward the shardbearer... he was going to fall downward no matter what.  The speed and force with which he fell was the idea behind his increased lashings.   I don't know that him being lighter or heavier would have impacted the stormlight usage in question.  

I haven't finished oathbringer yet even so perhaps this is answered further down the line.  

Either way I have to agree iron feruchemy in combination with any sort of flight in the cosmere is a game changer and can offer such changes that make the F-iron medallion nearly a mandatory pickup for any S tier flying spec.  

Not quite, I don't mean that using a Full Lashing on yourself while storing weight would lose less Stormlight, I mean you could use a Quarter Lashing to move around while storing weight, which would use less Stormlight than a Full Lashing.

[Genesis]

6 hours ago, JustQuestin2004 said:

Not quite, I don't mean that using a Full Lashing on yourself while storing weight would lose less Stormlight, I mean you could use a Quarter Lashing to move around while storing weight, which would use less Stormlight than a Full Lashing.

I think what TW was saying is that a 50kg object and a 5 kg object still experience the exact same acceleration from gravity. So a quarter lashing upward would still only mitigate a quarter of the acceleration acting upon the given object due to planetary gravity. The lashings (at least directly upward lashings) don't really make you weightless in the sense you seem to be thinking. They apply acceleration equal to gravity (more or less depending on how many lashings) in the chosen direction. ( again, assuming the lashings are literally gravitational in nature)

Eg. If Planetary gravity is 10ms^-1, then a full Lashing upward would be equivalent to -10ms^-1 - relative to the planet

So a 1/4 Lashing would be -2.5ms^-1 in the same context. Meaning that under the effects of 1/4 Lashing, a 100kg man would seem to way approximately 75 kg, conversely, if you stored weight to make yourself 10kg, you would still weigh 7.5kg under the effects of gravity + 1/4 Lashing.

 

In saying that, we don't know how much spiritual connection and perception play into this particular situation, so I could easily be very wrong here.

 

Edited September 20, 2022 by Genesis
Better explanation

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

14 minutes ago, Genesis said:

I think what TW was saying is that a 50kg object and a 5 kg object still experience the exact same acceleration from gravity. So a quarter lashing upward would still only mitigate a quarter of the acceleration acting upon the given object due to planetary gravity. The lashings (at least directly upward lashings) don't really make you weightless in the sense you seem to be thinking. They apply acceleration equal to gravity (more or less depending on how many lashings) in the chosen direction. ( again, assuming the lashings are literally gravitational in nature)

Eg. If Planetary gravity is 10ms^-1, then a full Lashing upward would be equivalent to -10ms^-1 - relative to the planet

So a 1/4 Lashing would be -2.5ms^-1 in the same context. Meaning that under the effects of 1/4 Lashing, a 100kg man would seem to way approximately 75 kg, conversely, if you stored weight to make yourself 10kg, you would still weigh 7.5kg under the effects of gravity + 1/4 Lashing.

 

In saying that, we don't know how much spiritual connection and perception play into this particular situation, so I could easily be very wrong here.

 

This is exactly my train of thought.  

Iron gets a ton of use when paired with flying anywhere and the ability to jack up lashings while tapping weight or storing weight allows for an even better control on acceleration / deceleration.  (Not sure if abrasion can be used to circumvent that change in speed from tapping and storing).

So from what we have gathered from Wax I can see less stormlight being used in a sense if you were to start very heavy.  Start falling slowly and then instead of increasing lashing you simply stored a ton of weight to accelerate yourself due to conservation of momentum.  Then simply tap a bunch of weight to slow down again.  Or change your lashings to slow you down.  This combo absolutely has the ability to turn you into a dang meteorite (and with enough stormlight and plate you may even survive the impact as well).  

 

[Genesis]

Yeah I think as far as air mobility powers go a crasher/windrunner combo is pretty ridiculous! Theoretically they could lash themselves in a direction, tap their ironmind, add another lashing, rinse and repeat, then when they are nearing the limits of stored weight, immediately stop tapping and store as much weight as they possibly can and accelerate to ludicrous speeds. Imagine that guy using the wind wedge thingy kaladin did, during the storm in the parsh camp, to reduce drag as well...

Edited September 21, 2022 by Genesis
Context

[TheBreadRuler]

Soulcasting just always gives you infinite access to Allomancy, which is very nice.

 

Regardless, a Steel Compounding Dustbringer would be a menace in the battlefield. 

I would imagine using hemalurgy combined with stormlight healing to boost your Allomancy to stupid levels. If you can burn hemalurgic spikes to add the bit of sDNA permanently to your spiritweb, well steel hemalurgy can steal steel allomancy...

Infinite speed, infinite mobility (BOM level Pushing), Healing, armor, Division, and Abrasion would stop you from burning to a crisp from going supersonic.

Only weakness is no Soulcasting so no infinite Scadrial magic.

 

My second choice would be a Pewter Compounding Elsecaller. I can imagine tapping 100x strength, and being at stupid levels of savantism.

The problem with this scenario is limited Stormlight, but if Honorblades before Honor's splintering created surgebinders similar to Fused, no problemo.

[SwordNimiForPresident]

Double nicrosil Bondsmith. Might as well just be a Shard at that point.

[StanLemon]

Steel Compounder/Edgedancer. Infinite speed and extra strong healing

[Quantus]

On 9/19/2022 at 7:30 PM, Mr. Misting said:

What I think would be cool is Elsecaller and Lurcher. You could Soulcast an anchor out of anything and then fly towards that object or pull that object towards you. 

Imagine the possibilities if they can push off their Inkspren, who physically manifest at variable Sizes (and may or may not be able to have jewelry).  Or even just pushing off their Shardblade, so they throw it down, Push, them summon it back to them like a weird inverse of Final Fantasy 15.

[cometaryorbit]

On 9/25/2022 at 1:20 PM, StanLemon said:

Steel Compounder/Edgedancer. Infinite speed and extra strong healing

 

On 9/21/2022 at 9:21 AM, TheBreadRuler said:

Regardless, a Steel Compounding Dustbringer would be a menace in the battlefield. 

[...]

Infinite speed, infinite mobility (BOM level Pushing), Healing, armor, Division, and Abrasion would stop you from burning to a crisp from going supersonic.

Only weakness is no Soulcasting so no infinite Scadrial magic.

yeah, steel compounding + Abrasion is probably the best speed power-set in the cosmere, at least on a planet (Gravitation would be more useful for late-cosmere space Radiants... and Radiants with shardplate spacesuits is such a cool concept!)

I don't think amount of metal is really a practical issue for metalborn using common metals like steel, Allomancy doesn't actually use very much metal. We only see people concerned about it if duralumin is in use, or for metals that are both expensive and fast-burning (atium in Era 1, bendalloy in Era 2). Spook doesn't worry about having enough tin, Wax doesn't worry about having enough steel.

[TheBreadRuler]

20 hours ago, cometaryorbit said:

I don't think amount of metal is really a practical issue for metalborn using common metals like steel,

It's not really a problem for most Allomancer's, no.

But for compounders, the amount of steel you have is basically your speed supply as well.

If you become a strong enough savant, I imagine you'd be compounding much, much faster to keep up with tapping insane amounts of steel.

The winning strategy then is to Soulcast steel directly in your stomach, fill it with speed from your other metalminds, and then burn it as it is being soulcasted.

I'm imagining TLR levels of allomancy here, or maybe even stronger.

All this really does is switch your fuel from steel to Stormlight though. 

BTW, I imagine become a savant of a Feruchemically charged metal basically means you get more out of Compounding, as Allomantic savants receive more Investiture from Preservation.

[cometaryorbit]

11 hours ago, TheBreadRuler said:

It's not really a problem for most Allomancer's, no.

But for compounders, the amount of steel you have is basically your speed supply as well.

If you become a strong enough savant, I imagine you'd be compounding much, much faster to keep up with tapping insane amounts of steel.

The winning strategy then is to Soulcast steel directly in your stomach, fill it with speed from your other metalminds, and then burn it as it is being soulcasted.

I'm imagining TLR levels of allomancy here, or maybe even stronger.

All this really does is switch your fuel from steel to Stormlight though.

See, though, if your Surges are Illumination/Transformation or Transformation/Transportation (so no pressure or friction control) I don't know if you can actually use more speed than a couple small metalminds can hold. Depends on how much Stormlight healing + gracefulness boost will help you deal with wind resistance/friction. (It'll certainly heal the damage, but will you be able to fight effectively with 500mph wind in your face?)

OTOH Marasi can manage, apparently, sonic boom speeds with super boosted f-gold healing... but she might also be using f-iron and/or f-pewter to stay on her feet, it says she "tapped everything".

[Returned]

3 hours ago, cometaryorbit said:

See, though, if your Surges are Illumination/Transformation or Transformation/Transportation (so no pressure or friction control) I don't know if you can actually use more speed than a couple small metalminds can hold. Depends on how much Stormlight healing + gracefulness boost will help you deal with wind resistance/friction. (It'll certainly heal the damage, but will you be able to fight effectively with 500mph wind in your face?)

OTOH Marasi can manage, apparently, sonic boom speeds with super boosted f-gold healing... but she might also be using f-iron and/or f-pewter to stay on her feet, it says she "tapped everything".

That difference between Surges and Feruchemy is an interesting angle I hadn't considered. Feruchemy fixes the "rough edges" around using powers, like a Feruchemist's body being able to avoid crushing itself from increased weight when tapping iron. It seems like this would also be the case for dealing with friction against air when tapping a steelmind. I wish we had more examples. We've only seen Sazed, who moved short distances, and Bleeder, who might not follow the normal human rules. So as long as someone has access to F-steel, maybe the side effects of high speed are manageable? We might find out in Lost Metal, but my gut feeling is we'll have to wait for era 3 

If that doesn't work, then maybe F-steel covering large distances is just tricky with any Surges that let you fiddle with pressure or friction. Ultra-high speeds could be great in an emergency but I'd worry about burning through Stormlight just to handle it in any other situation.

 

[cometaryorbit]

On 9/29/2022 at 11:32 PM, Returned said:

That difference between Surges and Feruchemy is an interesting angle I hadn't considered. Feruchemy fixes the "rough edges" around using powers, like a Feruchemist's body being able to avoid crushing itself from increased weight when tapping iron. It seems like this would also be the case for dealing with friction against air when tapping a steelmind. I wish we had more examples. We've only seen Sazed, who moved short distances, and Bleeder, who might not follow the normal human rules. So as long as someone has access to F-steel, maybe the side effects of high speed are manageable? We might find out in Lost Metal, but my gut feeling is we'll have to wait for era 3 

If that doesn't work, then maybe F-steel covering large distances is just tricky with any Surges that let you fiddle with pressure or friction. Ultra-high speeds could be great in an emergency but I'd worry about burning through Stormlight just to handle it in any other situation.

 

There are several WoBs that f-Steel doesn't protect you from friction/air resistance - but it does protect from purely internal effects (not really specified, but I think it's things like the G-forces involved not breaking the Feruchemist's legs).

One WoB even says that an a-pewter/f-steel twinborn would probably beat a double-steel twinborn in a short race, though he'd have to do the math... so I think the need for other powers (a-Pewter toughness and balance, f-Gold healing and maybe some combination of f-pewter/iron for footing, Stormlight healing and gracefulness, Abrasion, maybe Adhesion to deal with air resistance, or maybe Bleeder's kandra toughness) to get the most out of f-Steel is significant.