Is Soulcast Meat Vegan?

[Emery the Steelrunner he/him]

I don’t know why, but I started to think about what if someone wanted chouta, but they were vegan. It is said that chouta is made with soulcast meat. So I want to know your guys opinion. Is chouta/soulcast meat vegan?

Edited April 17, 2022 by Emery the Windrunner

[Returned he/him]

Non-animal products soulcast into meat would be vegan: no animals were involved in any way in producing it. It would probably not be vegetarian, but that depends on how you think about it (like, if you don't eat meat for nutritional reasons soulcast meat would still have the things you're avoiding).

Animal products soulcast into grain would not be vegan. It could be vegetarian, again depending on how you think about it (if you don't eat meat for ethical reasons, an animal was still slaughtered to make a steak that was soulcast into grain).

Chouta can be made of all kinds of stuff. It may have meat in it, or it may not. I'm not sure we've seen any non-meat chouta, but as far as I recall it isn't defined as a meat-containing dish. But if the ingredients of a chouta follow the above guidelines, it could be vegetarian and/or vegan.

Edited April 17, 2022 by Returned

[Ixthos Luke/Luke]

I'm by no means an expert on this, but I suspect that meat that doesn't come from animals would count as vegan to most, though certainly not all, vegans. The issue with vegans is, I think, mainly about harm or exploitation of animals. If an animal was involved at any point then it isn't vegan, but if something is turned into an animal product without harming an actual animal or exploiting an animal, then it is vegan. I think some may discount meat less for ethical reasons and more for health reasons, but if it just amounts to whether an animal was used or not, soulcast meat from non-meat would be vegan, and meat that has been transformed into something else would not be.

Edited April 17, 2022 by Ixthos
corrected one use of someone into something. I don't think soulcasting people would EVER be vegan!

[AllHailStick]

For 2:
So, with my understanding of Transformation and this little WOB that soulcast blood would match the recipient's DNA (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/171/#e8587), would that not infer spiritual realm shenanigans where the soul cast object would no longer spiritually be that object? 

If that's the case, it would probably depend on your definition of vegan. Soulcast meat would no longer be an animal product, but it would be derived from an animal product. Maybe a real world comparison would be how and animal could decompose and eventually become part of a plant. In the strictest sense (nonsensically) that would be an animal product, but no one really would consider it so. 

Does the soulcast grain-from-meat remember ever being meat afterwards?  

[Quantus he/him]

The definitions can be suprisingly varried and personal in practice, but the main deciding factor is what is used to create it more than what it's final form is like.  So anything non-animal that was soulcast would be Vegan by that definition.  But just like the debates on whether lab-grown meat is Kosher (which from a quick google seem ongoing) likel it would likely be a matter of interpretation. 

 

Chouta is basically just a wrap, gyro, or burrito depending on how you imagine the flatbread part, but the filling can be anything.  Soulcast meat is common in the camps, but it would qualify with or without meat (or meat-like) ingredients.  

[Lego Mistborn he/him]

I feel that as for vegan, meat made from non-animal products is vegan, as vegan is just not using animal products. If you are vegan for reasons like kosher however, I feel that you would not be able to eat the meat anyways, as kosher is, in my opinion, not about the actual origin but the meat itself.(I'm not one who follows kosher, so I don't know)

[Eluvianii he/him]

While I think soulcast meat would be considered vegan in its origin, I do believe the ethical question would be raised about eating soulcast meat creating temptation to eat actual meat. So some vegans would probably avoid it/be against it.

[Orlion Blight he/him]

Doesn't soul casting require the use of spren? We all ready know honey isn't vegan because it utilizes bees, and there are certainly classes of veganism that consider mushrooms to not be vegan (which is to say: definition of life/animal is perhaps loose enough to include spren).

Anyway, because soul casting uses spren, any food from it could plausibly be considered not vegan, even grain.

An chouta is not vegan because it brings joy to people, and a tenant of veganism is to replace joy in this life with misery

[Frustration]

34 minutes ago, Orlion Blight said:

there are certainly classes of veganism that consider mushrooms to not be vegan (which is to say: definition of life/animal is perhaps loose enough to include spren).

The actual what?

But like basic biology.

I don't understand this.

37 minutes ago, Orlion Blight said:

Anyway, because soul casting uses spren, any food from it could plausibly be considered not vegan, even grain.

By that logic bread isn't vegan because it requires humans to make it.

38 minutes ago, Orlion Blight said:

An chouta is not vegan because it brings joy to people, and a tenant of veganism is to replace joy in this life with misery

LOL, yes.

[Lego Mistborn he/him]

I think the point about spren may be really valid. You'd have to ask Navani to see what the Sibling thinks.

Edited May 2, 2022 by Ta'veren Kaladin

[Emery the Steelrunner he/him]

Quote

there are certainly classes of veganism that consider mushrooms to not be vegan

 

Wouldn’t that make yeast leavened bread not vegan? Yeast is a fungi just like mushrooms, just single celled.

@Orlion Blight

Edited May 2, 2022 by Emery the Steelrunner

[Orlion Blight he/him]

3 hours ago, Emery the Steelrunner said:

 

Wouldn’t that make yeast leavened bread not vegan? Yeast is a fungi just like mushrooms, just single celled.

@Orlion Blight

Makes sense to me, since these same vegans don't drink beer because of yeast. If they end up eating leaven bread, well.... they need to think about their ideology more! 

@Frustration Human labor is fine, it's animal exploitation that's wrong to the groups I'm talking about.

Now, how that applies to food that needs to be pollinated...well, it's infuriating and expensive to provide food to these folks, sooo I basically leave it up to them. 

[Frustration]

2 minutes ago, Orlion Blight said:

 

@Frustration Human labor is fine, it's animal exploitation that's wrong to the groups I'm talking about.

So what about Radiant soulcaster?

Also there is just the small problem of fungi not being animals.

Edited May 2, 2022 by Frustration

[Orlion Blight he/him]

Just now, Frustration said:

So what about Radiant soulcaster?

It still requires the use of spren through the nahel bond at the very least. 

The vegans I'm talking about are frustratingly pedantic *guffaw*

Now, Hemalurgy might be all right.

[Frustration]

2 minutes ago, Orlion Blight said:

It still requires the use of spren through the nahel bond at the very least. 

The vegans I'm talking about are frustratingly pedantic *guffaw*

Now, Hemalurgy might be all right.

How about Honorblades then?

And if they seriously are going to argue that it's exploitative to a piece of metal, or a stormcloud with a face I'm going to lose my mind.

[Orlion Blight he/him]

7 minutes ago, Frustration said:

How about Honorblades then?

And if they seriously are going to argue that it's exploitative to a piece of metal, or a stormcloud with a face I'm going to lose my mind.

Refer to my first post: if it brings you happiness, vegans are against it!

[Frustration]

Just now, Orlion Blight said:

Refer to my first post: if it brings you happiness, vegans are against it!

Quote

 

[Treamayne]

So, what we really need is for brandon to answer "Can Wit eat Chouta?"

[Condensation she/her]

Here's what I'm thinking: doesn't Soulcasting cause, like... bad things to happen to the people who use Soulcasters? Obviously not if they've got their Nahel bond, but if they're using a Soulcaster, I'm pretty sure they start turning into that thing, which if I'm remembering right does cause pain...? I think as a non-vegan who obviously is nowhere near an expert, if I were trying to be vegan I would not count Soulcast meat, at least made by Soulcasters, as vegan.

[Frustration]

1 hour ago, Condensation said:

Here's what I'm thinking: doesn't Soulcasting cause, like... bad things to happen to the people who use Soulcasters? Obviously not if they've got their Nahel bond, but if they're using a Soulcaster, I'm pretty sure they start turning into that thing, which if I'm remembering right does cause pain...? I think as a non-vegan who obviously is nowhere near an expert, if I were trying to be vegan I would not count Soulcast meat, at least made by Soulcasters, as vegan.

It doesn't cause pain.

[Condensation she/her]

Thanks for the correction - I'd have to think about that a bit more, then.

[The Unknown Medallion he/him]

40 minutes ago, Frustration said:

It doesn't cause pain.

Technically. It really depends what slowly turning into meat would do to, well, living meat. I think meat soulcasting is probably the least problematic type of soulcasting.

My own thoughts on the vegan vs vegetarian debate is that turning stone or something into meat is vegan (like how the Shin have no problem with soulcast metal because stone isn't harmed), but not necessarily vegetarian. I think that meat soulcast into something isn't vegan, but a corpse might be, not sure how vegans would treat a zero suffering normal life death. I think soulcast pork would be kosher, as it doesn't come from an animal at all. Some (me at least) would even consider it parev, same with soulcast milk.