Cosmere Timeline Ideas

[ShadeWhisperer]

I was just wondering if anyone had an idea on where the secret project books go in the timeline of the other cosmere books?

[PurpurPhönix]

During the last secret project livestream Brandon said that all 3 take place in the future of the Cosmere (with the present being approximately Stormlight 5 and Mistborn Era 2). But I think he also said that SP#4 was approximately when Era 4/Sixth of the Dusk is, so that's probably the latest, and the other two are in between now and then

[+Oltux72]

15 hours ago, PurpurPhönix said:

During the last secret project livestream Brandon said that all 3 take place in the future of the Cosmere (with the present being approximately Stormlight 5 and Mistborn Era 2). But I think he also said that SP#4 was approximately when Era 4/Sixth of the Dusk is, so that's probably the latest, and the other two are in between now and then

Unless Virtuosity has already splintered herself, SP#3 will need to take place at least 1700 years in the future. 1700 years is a looong time. The western Roman Empire still existed. Whole civilizations rose and fell in that time. I must voice doubt that Era 4 can be more than a few hundred years after SA. The Cosmere already needs countless genocidal catastrophes and atrocities to explain its duration and slow technological development.

SP#1 could be no later than 350 years after SA 5. But SP#3 has a very good chance of being the very latest book of the Cosmere.

[cometaryorbit]

10 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

 The Cosmere already needs countless genocidal catastrophes and atrocities to explain its duration and slow technological development.
 

Not necessarily. The only clear case of that, I'd say, is Scadrial's technological freeze under the Lord Ruler; Taldain was cut off from exporting its technology, but not destroyed or anything.

The cosmere timeline is supposed to be something like 10,000 years total, but that extends into the sci-fi tech future; that's not too far off the timeline for civilization on Earth really.

And scholarly attention that in RL would be directed to natural science/technology goes to Investiture stuff in the cosmere. Roshar's technology is medieval at best, but they are having a Scientific Revolution with fabrial science... but could that be extrapolated to physical science/technology? Possibly not. Same for all the work going to Awakening stuff on Nalthis, etc.

And technological progress isn't necessarily automatic, even in our world.

Most civilizations have had a relatively slow pace of progress. IIRC a thousand years ago the idea of technological progress wasn't 'natural' to people; they illustrated classical and Biblical characters in armor and weapons of their own time, and that didn't seem wrong to them the way it would to us. (To us, it's a natural assumption that technology changes over time.)

And many things were invented but not used much. The Maya had the wheel and axle, but apparently never put it to practical use. The Romans had primitive steam engines certainly by the first century AD and likely by the first century BC, but nothing useful was ever really done with them. China developed small, simple hot air balloons in the first few centuries AD (Kongming lanterns) but they were not developed into human-carrying vehicles. Etc.

[+Oltux72]

2 hours ago, cometaryorbit said:

Not necessarily. The only clear case of that, I'd say, is Scadrial's technological freeze under the Lord Ruler; Taldain was cut off from exporting its technology, but not destroyed or anything.

• Roshar being cast back into the stone age multiple times
• total collapse on Painter's world
• The Evil

2 hours ago, cometaryorbit said:

The cosmere timeline is supposed to be something like 10,000 years total, but that extends into the sci-fi tech future; that's not too far off the timeline for civilization on Earth really.

Roughly half of that was mesolithic. Yet the Cosmere had something at 18th century levels when The Lord Ruler took over.

2 hours ago, cometaryorbit said:

And scholarly attention that in RL would be directed to natural science/technology goes to Investiture stuff in the cosmere. Roshar's technology is medieval at best, but they are having a Scientific Revolution with fabrial science... but could that be extrapolated to physical science/technology? Possibly not. Same for all the work going to Awakening stuff on Nalthis, etc.

Yet they are not all that advanced in that either. Fabrials on Roshar a few hundred years old at best.

2 hours ago, cometaryorbit said:

And technological progress isn't necessarily automatic, even in our world.

Most civilizations have had a relatively slow pace of progress. IIRC a thousand years ago the idea of technological progress wasn't 'natural' to people; they illustrated classical and Biblical characters in armor and weapons of their own time, and that didn't seem wrong to them the way it would to us. (To us, it's a natural assumption that technology changes over time.)

It does not have to be. The problem in the Cosmere is keeping worlds with perpendicularities isolated. As soon as you have a world with observation aircraft and stuff you are not going to hide it any longer. And you need them to be kept hidden on all such worlds.

On Roshar it has happened. Do you see any way to keep Navani's Ardents from asking what'll happen if you walked off the map of Roshar?

 

[Elegy]

17 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

Unless Virtuosity has already splintered herself, SP#3 will need to take place at least 1700 years in the future. 1700 years is a looong time. The western Roman Empire still existed. Whole civilizations rose and fell in that time. I must voice doubt that Era 4 can be more than a few hundred years after SA. The Cosmere already needs countless genocidal catastrophes and atrocities to explain its duration and slow technological development.

SP#1 could be no later than 350 years after SA 5. But SP#3 has a very good chance of being the very latest book of the Cosmere.

What makes you think she didn't already splinter herself? Is there any reason to believe she was still around at the time of earlier Cosmere books? I see more evidence for the opposite - Harmony couldn't contact her, which makes it seem like she's already splintered by the time of Stormlight, and there's also this WOB that suggests that there are a lot of splintered Shards in the Cosmere present:

Quote

little wilson

How many Shards are whole at the time of [Shadows of Self]?

Brandon Sanderson

How many Shards are whole at the time of Shadows? I'm just going to RAFO that because-- because I don't want to do math right now.

Bystander

More than half or less than half?

Brandon Sanderson

At the time of Shadows? How many Shards--

zas678

Or about half?

Brandon Sanderson

Ha! *long pause* *really high and stretched out* Half-ish?

zas678

Half-ish?

Brandon Sanderson

Half-ish. It depends.

zas678

Give or take?

Brandon Sanderson

Give or take. Like it de-- Are there now only 15? Like what's the number? ...So-- I'm not going to-- I'm not going to--

zas678

RAFO.

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, RAFO.

Footnote: This conversation was continued here.
Bands of Mourning release party (Jan. 25, 2016)  

My guess would be that Yumi takes place somewhere around Mistborn Era 3 and Virtuosity was Splintered some time before the founding of the Final Empire, something like that.

[Frustration]

6 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

• Yet they are not all that advanced in that either. Fabrials on Roshar a few hundred years old at best.

That's like saying computers are a few hundred years old on Earth.

Yes they are relativly new, but they are very advanced.

[cometaryorbit]

Roshar alternated between stone age and bronze or maybe iron age, but I don't think they ever got anywhere near developing science, where advancement could be expected to accelerate. And Roshar's very weird geology may make it a very poor prospect for industrial civilization based on our-world technology ever arising... probably no oil/coal at all, and some metals and other mineral resources may be rare, absent or inaccessible.

I do think there will be space age Rosharans, but much more heavily magic/fabrial based than Scadrial tech.

I am not sure how much actual knowledge was lost due to the Evil, it seems like the limitations of the Simple Rules prevent a lot of activities, but the knowledge exists. And we don't really see the fort cities, I think the implication is that they are American frontier era... so not really much behind Scadrial at the same time frame.

TLR taking over is *comparatively* recent on the overall timeline. Roshar's human history is like 7000 local years so almost 8000 standard years (Raboniel is 7000), while TLR taking over is "only" 1300-some years before the 'present' of Mistborn Era 2 / Stormlight arc 1 ... definitely after the False Desolation and  Recreance for example.

Until about the "present" of Era 2 Mistborn/arc 1 Stormlight, I don't think perpendicularity travel led to much information getting into the "mainstream" societies (as opposed to places like Silverlight). With the Ghostbloods etc. that may be changing now.

[LewsTherinTelescope]

On 4/2/2022 at 6:25 AM, Elegy said:

What makes you think she didn't already splinter herself? Is there any reason to believe she was still around at the time of earlier Cosmere books? I see more evidence for the opposite - Harmony couldn't contact her, which makes it seem like she's already splintered by the time of Stormlight, and there's also this WOB that suggests that there are a lot of splintered Shards in the Cosmere present:

Also, Khriss has this to say in Arcanum Unbounded:

Quote

Odium. Be aware that this system is the current habitation of the Shard of Odium on the Physical and Cognitive Realms. This Shard undoubtedly caused the Splintering of Devotion, Dominion, Honor, and perhaps others throughout the cosmere.

The essays seem to be written around Way of Kings-ish, because she's not yet certain whether there are truly Shadows on Braize or not, but seems to be aware of the singers and Radiant bond, the latter of which she only really learned about after Szeth assassinated Gavilar going off the Ars Arcanum, and there's already at least one Shard besides Devotion/Dominion/Honor/Ambition that she at least thinks might be Splintered, going off the plural.