Toaster Retribution Posted February 22, 2022 Report Share Posted February 22, 2022 Inspired by seeing the ”How Hoid could kill if he wanted to”-thread. Do we think Hoid could accidentally kill someone? For example, if Hoid and some random guy named Bob climbed a mountain and Hoid slipped and accidentally pushed Bob down the mountainside, would whatever magic that prevents Hoid from harming others stop Bobs fall, or even stop Bob from being pushed in the first place, or would he die? I personally assume that Bob would die, since, knowing the Cosmere, Intent probably has something to do with Hoids ”I cant hurt people”-status, but I wonder if anyone sees it differently. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Invocation Posted February 22, 2022 Report Share Posted February 22, 2022 The guy can't eat meat. I think his inability to harm would end in him missing the shove more than anything. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frustration Posted February 22, 2022 Report Share Posted February 22, 2022 45 minutes ago, Invocation said: The guy can't eat meat. I think his inability to harm would end in him missing the shove more than anything. He could eat meat if he thought it was soulcast. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CryoZenith Posted February 22, 2022 Report Share Posted February 22, 2022 My guess would be that, if anything, the restriction would stop him from shoving, but if the shove happened, the other guy would just die. From what we've seen, the restriction works like a mental compulsion/geas, not like a reality warping magic, and only affects Hoid himself. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Invocation Posted February 23, 2022 Report Share Posted February 23, 2022 3 hours ago, Frustration said: He could eat meat if he thought it was soulcast. True, but if anything that reinforces my point. If he thinks it isn't Soulcast he won't be able to eat it. If he thinks falling over and pushing someone would possibly hurt them, he'd get yoinked. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LewsTherinTelescope Posted February 23, 2022 Report Share Posted February 23, 2022 Seems to be based heavily around Intent and perception, so I'd guess an accident is something that the magic would let happen. Quote Questioner Can Hoid eat Soulcast bacon? Brandon Sanderson Yes. He could probably eat lab-grown meat if he knew it was (or magic-grown meat). He probably could. His psychology will be influencing this, right? Which is why I say "probably." But the magic would allow it. Billy todd If somebody lied to him about the nature of the meat, could he eat that? Brandon Sanderson No. Well, okay, if they lied and said it was Soulcast, yes, then he probably could. Questioner 2 It's based on his perception. Brandon Sanderson It's based on his perception, yeah. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Questioner Can Hoid eat Soulcast bacon? Brandon Sanderson Yes. He could probably eat lab-grown meat if he knew it was (or magic-grown meat). He probably could. His psychology will be influencing this, right? Which is why I say "probably." But the magic would allow it. Billy todd If somebody lied to him about the nature of the meat, could he eat that? Brandon Sanderson No. Well, okay, if they lied and said it was Soulcast, yes, then he probably could. Questioner 2 It's based on his perception. Brandon Sanderson It's based on his perception, yeah.
AerionBFII Posted March 12, 2022 Report Share Posted March 12, 2022 I think Hoid is a master corner cutter. It is already established he could walk away from Roshar and leave it to odium if it meant odium would be trapped here. He said as much to dalinar. It would sadden him but he’d do it. He empathises with the individual but I think he’s more cold hearted than people realise. Don’t get me wrong I love him but him and Kelsier have more in common than I think they like to admit. Speaking of he certainly enjoyed whipping his ass and seemed to relish it. But he already didn’t think much of Kelsier prior to this. We know he can’t directly harm individuals but from this I think we can determine he would if he could. He’s not as savage as Kelsier’s wanton slaughtering but he’s perfectly capable of luring somebody onto a train track and watching them get hit by it. He’s subtle, crafty and perfectly capable of manoeuvring people to get around his little handicap. One thing I liked about this phrasing OP is the mountain climbing analogy. I think he is compelled to save people by choice not by his previous Dawnshard status. For example if Adolin fell off a cliff he’d offer a hand because he wanted to and laugh about it after. If Sadius fell of a cliff he’d watch with a smile. He couldn’t tread on his fingers or even kick dirt in his eye but I think he could watch him fall. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunu’anaki Posted March 12, 2022 Report Share Posted March 12, 2022 6 hours ago, AerionBFII said: I think Hoid is a master corner cutter. Agreed, he's also supplied people with weapons directly, he's given people information knowing it would be used to kill people, he helped Jasnah with that whole "duel" thing... etc. etc. I don't think his magic is going to stop any accidents considering how it seems to only effect harm caused directly by him. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morningtide Posted March 16, 2022 Report Share Posted March 16, 2022 Didn't read the whole thread, so sorry if this is a repeat of something already said. I think that Hoid's inability to hurt people is more self-centered, rather than reaching outward. He could probably kill on accident, especially if he had no idea that he was doing it. For example, if he had a plate of poisoned food that was probably meant for him, and then he gave it to someone else because he was hungry, that person would probably die. The magic wouldn't stop the person from eating or the poison from working. It also wouldn't stop Hoid since he just thought that he was helping the person, not killing him. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kandrafish Posted March 17, 2022 Report Share Posted March 17, 2022 On 3/12/2022 at 10:25 AM, AerionBFII said: I think Hoid is a master corner cutter. It is already established he could walk away from Roshar and leave it to odium if it meant odium would be trapped here. He said as much to dalinar. It would sadden him but he’d do it. He empathises with the individual but I think he’s more cold hearted than people realise. Don’t get me wrong I love him but him and Kelsier have more in common than I think they like to admit. Speaking of he certainly enjoyed whipping his ass and seemed to relish it. But he already didn’t think much of Kelsier prior to this. We know he can’t directly harm individuals but from this I think we can determine he would if he could. He’s not as savage as Kelsier’s wanton slaughtering but he’s perfectly capable of luring somebody onto a train track and watching them get hit by it. He’s subtle, crafty and perfectly capable of manoeuvring people to get around his little handicap. One thing I liked about this phrasing OP is the mountain climbing analogy. I think he is compelled to save people by choice not by his previous Dawnshard status. For example if Adolin fell off a cliff he’d offer a hand because he wanted to and laugh about it after. If Sadius fell of a cliff he’d watch with a smile. He couldn’t tread on his fingers or even kick dirt in his eye but I think he could watch him fall. I agree fully with this comment. I, originally, wondered if Hoid would be compelled to save Bob. But, if it is an accident, and a genuine accident, I think Hoid could do let Bob fall if Bob were evil (like Sadeas) or if Bob's death was for the greater good (like Alendi's death). On the other hand, if Hoid intentionally pushed Bob off the cliff, I also think that that would be allowed. But, Hoid would then need to have the full intention of saving Bob's life using Allomancy, or by knowing the drop was short and with water at the bottom. The grey area is... Could Hoid change his mind? And actually kill Bob using a mind game... This seems similar to what I imagine Vasher does with his non-Returned form, so I wonder... Could Hoid shoot someone in the face knowing they have a goldmind (like Wayne)? I think yes. But, could Hoid convince himself that someone has a goldmind, shoot them and then watch them die? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clowncarcrash Posted March 17, 2022 Report Share Posted March 17, 2022 Yeah, I think he could. As far we know, there is nothing that compels him to help people he encounters. I'd have to imagine the restriction not to kill has something to do with Intent. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kings Raven Posted March 25, 2022 Report Share Posted March 25, 2022 (edited) Remember that Hoid could trick people into killing themselves intentionally, he attempted to do so by trying to get himself "murdered" as Wit. Given that, I'm sure he could kill someone by pure accident. Edited March 25, 2022 by The Kings Raven 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harbringer of Auroras Posted March 29, 2022 Report Share Posted March 29, 2022 I think, harm, even if non-lethal, could not be done by Hoid. Meat is already dead, but Hoid can't eat it. On 3/16/2022 at 11:08 PM, Kandrafish said: Could Hoid shoot someone in the face knowing they have a goldmind (like Wayne)? I think yes. But, could Hoid convince himself that someone has a goldmind, shoot them and then watch them die? I disagree with this because it is still harm, despite the potential to heal. Hoid has attempted to punch people and failed, so I think it is not based on future effects or lethality, but immediate consequences. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.