A Hypothetical Situation Involving Two Duralumin Ferrings

[Trusk'our]

I’ve been thinking about Feruchemical duralumin and all the really interesting possible uses for it, which got me thinking; if a duralumin Ferring were to store all their ability to make Connections, would no one else’s ability to make Connections matter to them?

Okay, let me go more in depth; let’s say that two duralumin Ferrings meet each other. One Ferring wants to make fast friends, so they tap their Duraluminmind. The other Ferring wants to stay away and remain unnoticed, so they fill their Duraluminmind.

Now, the question; would there be no enhanced Connection made between the two Ferrings, even though one is tapping a lot of Connection, since the other isn’t able to make Connections at the moment? That would mean that Connection is a two-way phenomenon; you can only make a Connection with someone if they too can make a Connection with you.

Would this mean that a Bondsmith wouldn’t be able to forge a Connection with a Ferring who was storing all of their ability to make Connection away?

I’m kind of embarrassed that I didn’t think of Connection as a two-way phenomenon before, as it seems pretty obvious now that I really think about it. I might still be wrong with how this scenario would play out, though.

How do you think this hypothetical situation with Connection would pan out?

[EmulatonStromenkiin]

Sounds about right, and I think that the two Ferrings storing/drawing would cancel each other out like cadmium and Bendalloy bubbles do, making the ability of connection even out at about normal.

Edited February 1, 2022 by EmulatonStromenkiin

[cometaryorbit]

One storing and one tapping might cancel out to normal, but it might also mean no Connection if one stored all the way down to zero.

OTOH, do we know if "ability to form Connections" is actually what storing/tapping Connection does? The use of it in the medallions in Bands of Mourning makes me think it is literally storing Connection itself (Allik talks about "blank Connection" which has to connect to someplace - implying that normal non-blank use of Duralumin stores a specific Connection?) rather than the ability to form them.

[Trusk'our]

On 2/2/2022 at 3:37 PM, cometaryorbit said:

OTOH, do we know if "ability to form Connections" is actually what storing/tapping Connection does? The use of it in the medallions in Bands of Mourning makes me think it is literally storing Connection itself (Allik talks about "blank Connection" which has to connect to someplace - implying that normal non-blank use of Duralumin stores a specific Connection?) rather than the ability to form them.

Interesting. I hadn't thought of that.

If "blank Connection" wasn't something that you normally stored, and you instead stored away specific Connections, that could lead to some interesting possibilities.

However, if you could store away Connections you already had, wouldn't someone like Kelsier be able to leave the planet they were tied to by storing away that Connection that bound them there? With that in mind, and considering that Kelsier likely has access to all the powers of the Metallic Arts, either by being a Fullborn or by simply using Unsealed Metalminds similar to the Bands of Mourning, I'm not sure that this is the case.

[Wandering Shade]

It could be a combo of storing specific Connections and the ability to form Connections. Like, depending on your Intent when storing you could store either the Connections themselves or the ability to form them. The same with Tin, where you can store specific senses or all at once.

[+honorblades]

On 2/7/2022 at 9:16 PM, Trusk'our said:

However, if you could store away Connections you already had, wouldn't someone like Kelsier be able to leave the planet they were tied to by storing away that Connection that bound them there?

I feel like the fact that Kelsier definitely has access to this power and yet as of RoW is still trapped on Scadrial implies . . . something. That (as a Cognitive Shadow) you can't store enough Connection to leave the system? 

[Wandering Shade]

11 minutes ago, honorblades said:

I feel like the fact that Kelsier definitely has access to this power and yet as of RoW is still trapped on Scadrial implies . . . something. That (as a Cognitive Shadow) you can't store enough Connection to leave the system? 

I think Cognitive Shadows can leave.

But Slivers can't.

Remember, Kelsier isn't just your average Cognitive Shadow. He's held Preservation, he's a Sliver now. And that changes the rules a bit, probably.

[+honorblades]

22 minutes ago, Wandering Shade said:

I think Cognitive Shadows can leave.

Sometimes, but not always. The Heralds & the Fused are both different kinds of Cognitive Shadows, neither able to leave the Rosharan system. 

The Returned clearly have no problem leaving, and it appears that Shades may be able to leave the Threnodite system as well. It's kinda messy. 

[Fezzik]

35 minutes ago, honorblades said:

The Returned clearly have no problem leaving,

Ehh, I wouldn't go that far yet. That the five scholars accomplised something does not mean it was "no problem."

[Wandering Shade]

18 hours ago, honorblades said:

Sometimes, but not always. The Heralds & the Fused are both different kinds of Cognitive Shadows, neither able to leave the Rosharan system. 

The Returned clearly have no problem leaving, and it appears that Shades may be able to leave the Threnodite system as well. It's kinda messy. 

I meant that Cognitive Shadows can leave their system once they mess with their Connection, but that even when monkeying with Connection, a Sliver still can't leave. Sorry I didn't make that clear, but yeah I do agree with you on this.

[CryoZenith]

There might be an element of structural integrity between Connection and some types of cognitive shadows. In other words, it might be the case that for some types of cognitive shadows, Connection plays a key part in their survival in the first place, and if they gained duralumin ferring powers and started filling a duraluminmind, a possible consequence of filling too much might be instantly self-booting to the Beyond.

[Kandrafish]

On 1/30/2022 at 7:28 PM, Trusk'our said:

 

Okay, let me go more in depth; let’s say that two duralumin Ferrings meet each other. One Ferring wants to make fast friends, so they tap their Duraluminmind. The other Ferring wants to stay away and remain unnoticed, so they fill their Duraluminmind.

Now, the question; would there be no enhanced Connection made between the two Ferrings, even though one is tapping a lot of Connection, since the other isn’t able to make Connections at the moment? That would mean that Connection is a two-way phenomenon; you can only make a Connection with someone if they too can make a Connection with you.

I agree. I have always thought of increased Connection as being like an electric field, but with only attraction (if that makes any sense).

On 2/10/2022 at 6:52 PM, Wandering Shade said:

It could be a combo of storing specific Connections and the ability to form Connections. Like, depending on your Intent when storing you could store either the Connections themselves or the ability to form them. The same with Tin, where you can store specific senses or all at once.

I never thought about this, but I think that would be really cool! The Malwish could have been using specific types of Duralumin metalminds to speak with people in their language, while someone else could have used it to say write in the native language, or maybe just make you fit in in a crowd, or let you form investiture bonds.

 

 

[cometaryorbit]

On 2/10/2022 at 10:47 PM, honorblades said:

Sometimes, but not always. The Heralds & the Fused are both different kinds of Cognitive Shadows, neither able to leave the Rosharan system. 

The Returned clearly have no problem leaving, and it appears that Shades may be able to leave the Threnodite system as well. It's kinda messy. 

I believe the Returned can leave because of the Intent of Endowment - Nalthian Investiture is 'given without strings attached', so doesn't form a Connection - or at least as much of a Connection - to the planet as elsewhere in the Cosmere.

Shades are weird in general. If we knew what makes them (near-)mindless, we might know why.

[+honorblades]

3 hours ago, cometaryorbit said:

I believe the Returned can leave because of the Intent of Endowment - Nalthian Investiture is 'given without strings attached', so doesn't form a Connection - or at least as much of a Connection - to the planet as elsewhere in the Cosmere.

Yeah I think you're right on the money here. I still believe Returned have an easier time leaving their planet than most other cognitive shadows, but this is a property of Breath, not of the Returned specifically. Like you said, Breath is "no strings attached" and it's also very "sticky" to one's Spiritweb. 

 

3 hours ago, cometaryorbit said:

Shades are weird in general. If we knew what makes them (near-)mindless, we might know why.

No kidding. Can't wait for the The Dust Brigade. 

[LewsTherinTelescope]

On 2/2/2022 at 2:37 PM, cometaryorbit said:

OTOH, do we know if "ability to form Connections" is actually what storing/tapping Connection does? The use of it in the medallions in Bands of Mourning makes me think it is literally storing Connection itself (Allik talks about "blank Connection" which has to connect to someplace - implying that normal non-blank use of Duralumin stores a specific Connection?) rather than the ability to form them.

Not in as many words, but here's what the Feruchemical table poster says about it:

Quote

Duralumin - Connector Ferrings can store spiritual connection in a duralumin metalmind, reducing other people's awareness and friendship with them, and can tap it in order to speedily form trust relationships with others.

[cometaryorbit]

Hmmm. Good point. That's interesting because the "blank Connection" in Bands of Mourning is about Connecting to a place not relationship with other people. I wonder if this is a difference between Southern medallion-tech and base use of Feruchemy, or something else?