Godking vs. fullborn

[Proletariat]

In terms of the Lord Ruler the only options seem to be to either kill him instantaneously or somehow exhaust/remove his metals. I can't see an Awakener pulling that off.

If every Fused in existence attacked the Lord Ruler, then the sheer repetition of it might take his metals down to a killable level of charge I reckon. And if they had a suppressor fabrial (like corrupted Sibling) they could block him using Allomancy whether directly or via compounding. 

Alternatively for a one hit kill, then I think you would need a speedster with a shardblade so like a twinborn with A-Pewter and F-Steel using Nightblood would have a good chance.

[cometaryorbit]

TLR's healing shouldn't fix the goldminds themselves. I'm not sure he could survive inside a volcano for example - the goldminds would likely melt off his body (although lava temperatures vary, some are hot enough to melt gold). A very powerful explosion might be fatal for the same reason (vaporizing or blowing apart the goldminds).

1 hour ago, Proletariat said:

And if they had a suppressor fabrial (like corrupted Sibling) they could block him using Allomancy whether directly or via compounding.

Hmm, interesting thought.

Anti-Investiture might also work, I guess? If it wiped out his age reduction... But would you need anti-Ruin (since it's atium) or anti-Ruin/Preservation combo (since it's Feruchemy)?

1 hour ago, Proletariat said:

Alternatively for a one hit kill, then I think you would need a speedster with a shardblade so like a twinborn with A-Pewter and F-Steel using Nightblood would have a good chance.

Yeah, a Nightblood wound should kill him (by draining his investiture so his healing/age reduction fail). F-Gold can heal normal Shardblade wounds, but Nightblood is special. If it can kill a Shard's Vessel, it can kill TLR.

Hmmm... If TLR picked up Nightblood, would it make him kill himself? I'm pretty sure he's power hungry and violent enough for Nightblood to register him as evil. But would A-Copper block the mental influence? Likely... would depend if TLR realized what was happening, he's already mentally messed up so he might not...

[Frustration]

4 hours ago, Proletariat said:

If every Fused in existence attacked the Lord Ruler, then the sheer repetition of it might take his metals down to a killable level of charge I reckon. And if they had a suppressor fabrial (like corrupted Sibling) they could block him using Allomancy whether directly or via compounding. 

They wouldn't know how to make that work for Allomancy or Feruchemy.

[Inquisitor #5]

Oh, hey, it's the perennial "Fullborn vs." topic. 

My personal stance is that the winner is always Fullborn in these matchups.

The only possible threats to a Fullborn are, IMO, Shardblade sneak attack (stab through base of the neck or through the brain, hold in place until dead, hopefuly paralyzing the body, ideally frying the brain. If the Fullborn is congisant enough to burn metals/tap metalminds a steelpush/ironpull could interrupt you, depending on presence of metals.), Nightblood sneak attack (stab through head/torso and hold just in case, just nicking may not work depending on ability to heal.), aluminium Hemalurgy sneak attack (hope you hit the heart.) or Soulcasting sneak attack (doesn't matter how strong you are if you're encased in metres of rock, unable to move.)

Things like being thrown into a volcano should also work, but are far harder to make happen.

Possibly also running a current through the fullborn, but you'd still need a delivery method for that, like an electrified harpoon.

If you don't take a fullborn by suprise, you can basically assume that they'll never be hit, rendering any weapon useless against them.

In the particular case of someone at the Tenth Heightening+, you also run into the problem of there being no self-healing inherent to the system. A coinshot, or just someone with a gun, could kill an Awakener, not to mention someone who could punch faster than sound.

 

¤_¤

[Frustration]

8 hours ago, Inquisitor #5 said:

Nightblood sneak attack (stab through head/torso and hold just in case, just nicking may not work depending on ability to heal.

Considering even Hoid is afraid of Nightblood I think a nick would do just fine.

 

Another way to kill them would be totransfer them to the CR and let them drop, I doubt they have large breath stores but even if they do getting out is nearly impossible.

Edited December 19, 2021 by Ookla the Frustrated

[Inquisitor #5]

3 hours ago, Ookla the Frustrated said:

Considering even Hoid is afraid of Nightblood I think a nick would do just fine.

I'm not saying it wouldn't work, but it's not guaranteed to, and generally if you don't beat a fullborn with the opening move, you lose. Why risk it?

Also, Hoid being afraid of it is not indicative of why he's afraid of it. That is, we can't judge how easily it would kill him from the fact that it would kill him.

3 hours ago, Ookla the Frustrated said:

Another wya to kill them would be totransfer them to rhe CR and let them drop, I doubt they have large breath stores but even if they do getting out is nearly impossible.

True, I honestly didn't think of that.

 

¤_¤

[Frustration]

On 12/15/2021 at 7:14 PM, Nameless said:

A-chromium almost certainly doesn't work on breaths. Besides, a fullborn wouldn't need it. They could kill the Godking before he had time to blink.

A-Chromium does work on Breaths

Spoiler

Podman36

How effective would a Leecher be at draining Breath?

Brandon Sanderson

They could be fairly effective.

Questioner

How significant would the difference be between Breath and Stormlight?

Brandon Sanderson

That, I'll RAFO for now, because we're actually getting the actual numbers. We have certain people working on a project for that.

Skyward release party (Nov. 6, 2018)

 

[NameIess]

3 minutes ago, Frustration said:

A-Chromium does work on Breaths

  Reveal hidden contents

Podman36

How effective would a Leecher be at draining Breath?

Brandon Sanderson

They could be fairly effective.

Questioner

How significant would the difference be between Breath and Stormlight?

Brandon Sanderson

That, I'll RAFO for now, because we're actually getting the actual numbers. We have certain people working on a project for that.

Skyward release party (Nov. 6, 2018)

 

Interesting. Well, we don't know how fast it drains breaths, so it might be infeasible to drain 100k+ breaths. Of course, compounded nicrosil+duraluminum should negate that for a fullborn, but I wonder how much of a hard counter chromium mistings will be to awakeners.

[StanLemon]

3 hours ago, Nameless said:

Interesting. Well, we don't know how fast it drains breaths, so it might be infeasible to drain 100k+ breaths. Of course, compounded nicrosil+duraluminum should negate that for a fullborn, but I wonder how much of a hard counter chromium mistings will be to awakeners.

All instances of Chromium we know about show it to be really fast, only a second for most Invested people and items. However, I agree that trying to drain 100K Breaths would be completely unfeasible unless they just sat there and let you do it. That's just so much Investiture. Even Nightblood probably would take a good several minutes to eat that much. Though, throwing Duralumin into the mix is an interesting idea

[Frustration]

4 hours ago, StanLemon said:

Even Nightblood probably would take a good several minutes to eat that much. Though, throwing Duralumin into the mix is an interesting idea

Considering it seemed like Nightblood was rather quick when killing a vessel I have to disagree.

[NameIess]

9 hours ago, StanLemon said:

Even Nightblood probably would take a good several minutes to eat that much.

I agree with frustration. Nightblood would eat those breaths in an instant if you stabbed someone with him. Though if you were just wielding Nightblood, he would take a while to eat 100k breaths.

[StanLemon]

6 hours ago, Frustration said:

Considering it seemed like Nightblood was rather quick when killing a vessel I have to disagree.

 

1 hour ago, Nameless said:

I agree with frustration. Nightblood would eat those breaths in an instant if you stabbed someone with him. Though if you were just wielding Nightblood, he would take a while to eat 100k breaths.

I had specifically been thinking of the rate he devoured from the person holding him. My bad for not making that clear. Though now I wonder how full 100K Breaths would make Nightblood 

[+Bzhydack]

On 19.12.2021 at 2:38 PM, Frustration said:

Another way to kill them would be totransfer them to the CR and let them drop, I doubt they have large breath stores but even if they do getting out is nearly impossible.

We dont know capabilities of Duralumin or Nicrosil Compounding. Duralumin gives Connection manipulation, combine with massive Investiture boost from Nicrosil is possible that Fullborn will be able simply brute force break between Realms and transfer himself back to the Physical Realm. 

[Frustration]

1 minute ago, Bzhydack said:

We dont know capabilities of Duralumin or Nicrosil Compounding. Duralumin gives Connection manipulation, combine with massive Investiture boost from Nicrosil is possible that Fullborn will be able simply brute force break between Realms and transfer himself back to the Physical Realm. 

Duralumin won't help with that, and even if they do manage with Nicrosil, simply do it again, Nicrosil is far less eficient than most other ways, so they will run out before you do.

[+Bzhydack]

6 hours ago, Frustration said:

Duralumin won't help with that, and even if they do manage with Nicrosil, simply do it again, Nicrosil is far less eficient than most other ways, so they will run out before you do.

Connection manipulation you know. Like Bondsmith. And imagine burning Duralumin Metalminds plus not-charged Duralumin.

Also, you will need to catch Fullborn after that. Good luck with that. You will be dead in split-second.

And another question. Is Coppercloud visible from Cognitive Realm, when he burns copper?

[Frustration]

1 hour ago, Bzhydack said:

Connection manipulation you know. Like Bondsmith.

Won't help you out of the CR

1 hour ago, Bzhydack said:

Also, you will need to catch Fullborn after that. Good luck with that. You will be dead in split-second.

They can't see the CR, just wait of a good time and open a perpendicularity and pull them through.

1 hour ago, Bzhydack said:

And another question. Is Coppercloud visible from Cognitive Realm, when he burns copper?

We don't know

[+Bzhydack]

10 hours ago, Frustration said:

Won't help you out of the CR

Maybe. Or maybe Connected himself to different Realms can allow easier breaking of realmatic border. We still dont know too little.

10 hours ago, Frustration said:

They can't see the CR, just wait of a good time and open a perpendicularity and pull them through.

Doesnt traveling between realms required Intent on the traveler's side? What mean you cannot be pulled to CR against your will?

Oathgates are different story, because fact you stand on one can count as Intent to use it.

And how we know Fullborn cant see Cognitive Realm? With this amount of Connection and Fortune...

10 hours ago, Frustration said:

We don't know

But this is very important. Because Coppercloud hide you from magical senses. If can hide you from seeing you from Cognitive Realm (what is Investiture based) it hard counters only advantage Elsecaller can have against Fullborn. Because you cannot strike something you cant detect.

[Frustration]

46 minutes ago, Bzhydack said:

Maybe. Or maybe Connected himself to different Realms can allow easier breaking of realmatic border. We still dont know too little.

I would doubt it, Connecting yourself might have some use but Bondsmiths connect the realms themselves together, which is not something a Fullborn can do.

49 minutes ago, Bzhydack said:

Doesnt traveling between realms required Intent on the traveler's side? What mean you cannot be pulled to CR against your will?

No. Odium pulls Dalinar in when Dalinar explicitly stated he doesn't want to.

50 minutes ago, Bzhydack said:

And how we know Fullborn cant see Cognitive Realm? With this amount of Connection and Fortune...

Because none of their powers are realmatically focused

52 minutes ago, Bzhydack said:

But this is very important. Because Coppercloud hide you from magical senses. If can hide you from seeing you from Cognitive Realm (what is Investiture based) it hard counters only advantage Elsecaller can have against Fullborn. Because you cannot strike something you cant detect.

It can hide kinetic Investiture, I highly doubt it can hide your soul.

[+Bzhydack]

3 minutes ago, Frustration said:

No. Odium pulls Dalinar in when Dalinar explicitly stated he doesn't want to.

Odium is Shard. Normal Bondsmith dont have power comparable to this. Not mention Elsecaller.

5 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Because none of their powers are realmatically focused

Seing Spiritual is not Realmaticly Focused?

6 minutes ago, Frustration said:

It can hide kinetic Investiture, I highly doubt it can hide your soul

From this:

Quote

Boskone 54 (Feb. 17, 2017)
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Play/Pause

 

Questioner (paraphrased)

Could a Soother prevent a listener from attuning a given rhythm?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

No. A coppercloud could, but I hadn't thought about emotional allomancy interacting. See, the rhythm isn't your emotion and doesn't determine your mood. It is a direct connection to the spiritual realm. So I guess soothing could make it harder just like it makes anything harder, in the same way that driving a car would be harder. [recording starts here] And so, for the same reasons that you can, um, it is possible that a coppercloud can play with it. Not a normal power of a coppercloud, but you’ve seen them do stuff similar.

 

Footnote: Question was cut off in recording, first bit reproduced from memory

and this:

Quote

FanX Spring 2019 (April 19, 2019)
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Keeper Exile

Would a Coppercloud at all affect how spren act?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

it mean Allomantic Copper works by blocking Connection between Realms. So not just Kinetic Investiture. Should hide soul as well.

[Frustration]

2 hours ago, Bzhydack said:

Odium is Shard. Normal Bondsmith dont have power comparable to this. Not mention Elsecaller.

Why do you assume that it's sole due to him being a shard, we have zero indication that forcing someone to a different realm.

2 hours ago, Bzhydack said:

Seing Spiritual is not Realmaticly Focused?

How do they see the Spiritual?

[+Bzhydack]

15 minutes ago, Frustration said:

How do they see the Spiritual?

Quote

MisCon 2018 (May 26, 2018)
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Chaos

Odium said to Taravangian, "You did this without access to Fortune or the Spiritual Realm?" How does one access Fortune without the Spiritual Realm or Feruchemical chromium, as almost all future sight tends to utilize the Spiritual Realm in some way?

Brandon Sanderson

So, that line is mostly just me saying... *long pause* I think you're picking apart those things too much.

Chaos

Right, that makes sense. Hey, Odium said it, so I didn't know-- Gotta take that seriously, so.

Brandon Sanderson

So, yeah, don't read too much into picking apart those two things. You can read it as-- Honestly, that is me making sure I am being clear in the text.

Chaos

That there are those are two different things.

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah those are two different things, but they are just interrelated. Fortune is a property, and the Spiritual Realm is a place, but not a place. Do you know what I mean? To use Fortune, you're always involving the Spiritual Realm, but in the Spiritual Realm, you're not always involving Fortune.

 

25 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Why do you assume that it's sole due to him being a shard, we have zero indication that forcing someone to a different realm.

Only Shards presented us this action, despite it being very usefull for oter users of Transportation or Perpendicularity. Why for example Ishar dont Push Dalinar's army into Cognitive? He is the most experienced Bondsmith outthere.

[Frustration]

3 hours ago, Bzhydack said:

 

That enables him to use the spiritual realm, not to see it.

4 hours ago, Bzhydack said:

Only Shards presented us this action, despite it being very usefull for oter users of Transportation or Perpendicularity. Why for example Ishar dont Push Dalinar's army into Cognitive? He is the most experienced Bondsmith outthere.

Because Ishar quite clearly did not care if they were there or not, it would be like using a gun to kill an ant.

[LewsTherinTelescope]

On 12/24/2021 at 8:54 PM, Frustration said:

They can't see the CR

I'm actually not so sure on that. When using the Bands, Wax and Marasi can see the very souls of things, and when burning duralumin with his atium, Elend saw Kelsier in the Cognitive (and we know electrum alone can get this moment too, just harder). I don't think it's outside reason a Fullborn could Compound nicrosil to reach a similar point and work out what the minimum power needed is to perform one of those two things (assuming Connection manipulation can't get you in there, which is not fully certain with how much RoW talks about Connection to the various Realms).

[+Bzhydack]

On 25.12.2021 at 11:18 PM, Frustration said:

Because Ishar quite clearly did not care if they were there or not, it would be like using a gun to kill an ant.

But there are many other instances where this would be very usefull. Why for example Melishi during False Desolation didnt trap Singers in Cognitive Realm far from Perpendicularity? They didnt have Bondsmith of their own, they would simply starve to death in CR if they would survive fall. Problem solved.

[Frustration]

1 minute ago, Bzhydack said:

But there are many other instances where this would be very usefull. Why for example Melishi during False Desolation didnt trap Singers in Cognitive Realm far from Perpendicularity? They didnt have Bondsmith of their own, they would simply starve to death in CR if they would survive fall. Problem solved.

Because Melishi was not fully unbound