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Kolfire

theory
identity of Trell and Senna wonderings(secret history spoilers)

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On 1/28/2017 at 8:52 PM, john203 said:

Preservation said: "Oh, Senna ... I'm losing this place. Losing them all ..."

 

 

So I was recently skimming through the shard and was thinking about Trell and Senna. We know that preservation had failed someone and i propose that that person was Senna or as we know her, Trell. I think that when Laras was about to become a shard Senna told him that he had to contain Ruin. She made him promise this. After he had become Preservation she became Justice and decided to hold him to his promise. After the siege of Luthadel happened he had failed her by letting all these people get killed by Ruin. She was really angry and flew towards Scadrial. This is the red haze we now know as Trell. She wants to enact justice on Preservation. 

P.S. I know that he should have called her by her shards name but maybe he never saw her when she wasn't Senna? What do you think? 

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Senna as Trell... it's an interesting theory, and certainly one I've never seen before. I'd love to believe that quotation was some kind of deliberate hint.

But the revenge motive doesn't really make sense. For two reasons.

1) Leras is dead already. It would make no sense to punish Harmony for Leras's crimes -- and if Senna's a Shardholder, she'd know that.

2) Leras['s cognitive shadow] only said that because he'd forgotten about his plan. In truth, his plan worked perfectly. He did contain Ruin, and he gave his life to do it. Sure, Ruin killed a lot of people, but it would hardly make sense to blame Leras for that.

But maybe you've just got it backwards. Maybe Trell-Senna wants to avenge Leras's death -- and Ati's moral downfall -- by splintering Ruin. (Which can only be accomplished by 'liberating' Ruin's investiture from within all Scadrian life.) Sazed's such a great guy, we often forget that 50% of his power is hell-bent on destroying the universe. Maybe Trell's ultimate goal is to protect the cosmere by splintering the dangerous shards. Maybe Taln's Scar (over Roshar) is actually Trell, coming to attack Odium. 

EDIT: Actually, Harmony's more than 50% Ruin. A paranoid person might think that Ruin will someday come to dominate Sazed's personality, and unleash his enormous power upon the cosmere as an unstoppable engine of apocalyptic destruction. Maybe Trell has a point.

Edited by Belzedar
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Isn't there a WoB (prior to AU) that Trell is a shard we know of?

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1 hour ago, jofwu said:

Isn't there a WoB (prior to AU) that Trell is a shard we know of?

I believe technically it's that the metal in Bleeder's spike is of a shard we know.

That led me to propose a theory that there was no individual "Trell" but a group from Sel, and that the metal was of Dominion/the Dor.  I don't think so anymore, though, after the mention of Bavadin interfering in other worlds in the AU Taldain System essay and the Mastrell / Lesstrell ranks in White Sand.

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@Belzedar's points are valid. There is no reason for a vengeance with Leras's death.

About Senna to be Trell (whatever the reason she have to attack Scadrial)...She have to be Cultivation, it's the only Shard without a know Vessel's name that could fit the "a shard we know of"

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On 2/2/2017 at 10:37 PM, Belzedar said:

EDIT: Actually, Harmony's more than 50% Ruin. A paranoid person might think that Ruin will someday come to dominate Sazed's personality, and unleash his enormous power upon the cosmere as an unstoppable engine of apocalyptic destruction. Maybe Trell has a point.

I believe that there is also a WoB that says that Sazed has done something with the extra power that Ruin had to make himself more even.

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@nervousnerd my personal fan theory is that Kell is holding on to it for him. 

He held the power of preservation and now is holding a little bit of ruin, making him a little harmony with out as much restrictions. Plus it is stated multiple times that he was more connected to ruin.

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I feel like that would be dangerous. Kelsier was hard enough to control already. Also, we don't know if drinking that pure connection or even holding preservation itself changed his affinity. I feel like it would make more sense to invest in something instead of someone. Maybe the shield around the planet. Maybe just atium but I kind of don't think so.

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On 2/7/2017 at 1:59 AM, nervousnerd said:

I believe that there is also a WoB that says that Sazed has done something with the extra power that Ruin had to make himself more even.

I'd be interested in reading the phrasing there. Does it say when he did it? After all, TenSoon straight up tells Wax that he is "Harmony's Ruin" to his Preservation (as agents), and as Marasi notes, his modus operandi is to "break things with style".

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Harmonium has a slight imbalance towards Ruin's power. That's probably where the extra power went.

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52 minutes ago, robardin said:

I'd be interested in reading the phrasing there. Does it say when he did it?

Brandon's phrasing was literally something akin to him saying "What could he be doing with that extra power? hrmm..." and that ended that WoB entry.

Edited by The One Who Connects
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I always thought the extra Ruin went to making Atium for Marsh.  Something's gotta be keeping him alive.

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42 minutes ago, What's a Seawolf? said:

I always thought the extra Ruin went to making Atium for Marsh.  Something's gotta be keeping him alive.

He still has the atium he took from the kandra at the end of HoA.

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I don't believe Sazed would trust Kelsier with even a tiny portion of Ruins power. The guys basically a morally unscrupulous vigilante with an inferiority complex. 

21 hours ago, Spoolofwhool said:

He still has the atium he took from the kandra at the end of HoA.

True!! He's got all the remaining Atium IN THE WORLD and several nougats in his stomach but Brandon mentioned it will eventually run out.... unless Sazed does something.

22 hours ago, What's a Seawolf? said:

I always thought the extra Ruin went to making Atium for Marsh.  Something's gotta be keeping him alive.

I agree this is what Harmony has done to balance out the power of Preservation and Ruin.

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1 hour ago, AerionBFII said:

I don't believe Sazed would trust Kelsier with even a tiny portion of Ruins power. The guys basically a morally unscrupulous vigilante with an inferiority complex. 

True!! He's got all the remaining Atium IN THE WORLD and several nougats in his stomach but Brandon mentioned it will eventually run out.... unless Sazed does something.

I agree this is what Harmony has done to balance out the power of Preservation and Ruin.

There's also the extra power of Ruin used to form harmonium. That's more my guess as to where the excess is going.

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24 minutes ago, Spoolofwhool said:

There's also the extra power of Ruin used to form harmonium. That's more my guess as to where the excess is going.

Harmonium..... taking a short trip to Theoryland haha I'll bring you a souvenir as thanks! 

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10 hours ago, Spoolofwhool said:

There's also the extra power of Ruin used to form harmonium. That's more my guess as to where the excess is going.

Would Harmonium not be technically composed from half of each power? Or at least proportions of the power equal to their proportions in Harmony himself?

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2 hours ago, nervousnerd said:

Would Harmonium not be technically composed from half of each power? Or at least proportions of the power equal to their proportions in Harmony himself?

Harmonium is composed a bit more of Ruin than of Preservation. This has been confirmed by Brandon. I'm thinking that it's an intentional thing to siphon off excess power. This topic contains most of the important details as well as a very science-heavy discussion.

 

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