kroen

So why exactly is Nightblood so stupendously overpowered?

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Although the Tenth Heightening color aura does give a nod to this, by prisming white things into a rainbow of colors.

True. The color used for awakening comes from pigmentation, though, so I assume that's why the tenth heightening leaves them white instead of gray.

jW

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Shadowwisp to be honest I don't think Nightblood abilities change based on the Investiture's source.

As far as we know Nightblood may feed of all kind of Kinetics Investiture, from Nightblood everything is just fuel.

And in the end we don't even know if Nightblood drains Investiture from its victim.... we saw only that it feeds of its holder's Investiture.

 

For the moment I think that Nightblood is an "incomplete" (without a better term) being, he can't mantain both its mind and its full power at the same time, and it tries to achieve new Investiture from its wielder (a being with it has a bond)...But in the end Nightblood is an Endowment creature and take something with force is aganist his own nature, therefore it can't keep the new Investiture and release it in a broken form. Probably the Investiture that Nightblood consumes remain for a long time don't avaliable, but in the end the Nightblood's influence will fade.

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What would hypothetically happen if Nightblood were to take investiture from a source who's intent wouldn't clash with its own? That might be interesting to see

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THEORY: Nightblood is a quasi-sliver.  According to the coppermind you have to be human first to become a sliver.  However, the investiture of breath grants human properties.  Nightblood was invested with a large amount of investiture at the same moment he was granted human properties and thus became a quasi-sliver.

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THEORY: Nightblood is a quasi-sliver.  According to the coppermind you have to be human first to become a sliver.  However, the investiture of breath grants human properties.  Nightblood was invested with a large amount of investiture at the same moment he was granted human properties and thus became a quasi-sliver.

There's really not much point to Nightblood being a quasi-sliver when he's already an artificial spren/splinter

 

Q: Can Nogntblood be considered a splinter and does it function like a spren realmatically, are there distinct differences is what I'm asking.

A: Nightblood is kind of his own strange thing. He's an attempt to use one magic to replicate something in another. He's closest to a spren, but kind of like a...robot spren, for lack of better words to use.

(source)

Edited by Master_Moridin
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What would hypothetically happen if Nightblood were to take investiture from a source who's intent wouldn't clash with its own? That might be interesting to see

In the end I think it doesn't even matter... If the clashing Intent problem is true... It's Nightblood Itself as Endowment being to be the problem, not the Intestiture-Fuel it takes.

 

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It might matter.  What if someone offs Endowment?  Would Nightblood take over?   :P

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What if you threw Nightblood into the well of ascension? :ph34r:  :ph34r:  :ph34r:  :ph34r:  :ph34r:  :ph34r:  :ph34r:

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What if you threw Nightblood into the well of ascension? :ph34r:  :ph34r:  :ph34r:  :ph34r:  :ph34r:  :ph34r:  :ph34r:

RAFO .... I am not joking... Someone asked it and recive a RAFO

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Nightblood seems like aluminum: Investiture goes in, doesn't really come out.

One of the potential risks with the LHE is that they might accidentally make a black hole. Perhaps this is the Cosmere-equivalent.

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Nightblood seems like aluminum: Investiture goes in, doesn't really come out.

One of the potential risks with the LHE is that they might accidentally make a black hole. Perhaps this is the Cosmere-equivalent.

To be Honest I see Nightblood and Alluminium very different in their effects...I can't find a really likeness between them  :huh:

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Investiture goes in and out of aluminum all the time. Case in point, every aluminum ferring ever.

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I don't think Nightblood is overpowered so much as nobody besides Vasher and Shashara have tried too make such a weapon.

Spoiler

Unless you count Brandon's Warbreaker annotations which mention that Shashara told Yesteel how too make weapons such as Nightblood. Since the annotations say he's making such weapons in the north and trying too restore Kuth and Huth as kingdoms again following the Manywar. 

it seems really powerful compared too a regular weapon but anybody with enough Breath could replicate what Vasher did with any weapon. I think Nightblood would be a lot less powerful if there were many weapons like him in other peoples hands. Nightblood only seems overpowered because there's nothing like him. Kind of like cannons in the middle ages. They seemed like a super powerful weapon because only a few countries had them. But once everybody made them they became a lot less powerful and decisive in battles. The same thing would probably happen with Nightblood.  

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I disagree. Nightblood's insanely powerful, it can seemingly cut through almost anything (and can be propelled through a body easily even when sheathed) and causes anyone who isn't pure in mind to kill others and themselves with it. It's a pretty potent machine. 

Also, in comparison, Sanderson has described Nightblood as "a more powerful Shardblade" in relation to the SA series. For those that haven't read that series, they're pretty powerful and they're considered to be worth as much as many kingdoms, and Shardbearers change the landscapes of battles and wars. So if Nightblood is a MORE powerful Shardblade by comparison, it's pretty safe to say that it's a pretty powerful tool. 
 

1 hour ago, skybreaker30 said:

it seems really powerful compared too a regular weapon but anybody with enough Breath could replicate what Vasher did with any weapon.

Technically you're right, but you have to keep in mind that one must reach the Ninth Heightening, or 20,000 breaths, before you can use the 1,000 breaths needed to awaken steel. And the only people in Nalthis history we know who have reached this Heightening are the Scholars and the God Kings. And even the scholars it took an arms race and lots of studying to figure out how to do it. I'm pretty sure the putting the correct intent into the command for the awakened object is pretty hard, especially when you see how two of the smartest magic users on the planet messed up in how they gave Nightblood his command. So it's theoretically possible, but still insanely difficult and wouldn't undermine how powerful Nightblood is. 

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I understand that, technically, it is super-powered, and extremely powerful.  I just cannot understand for the life of me why.  I mean, 1000 breaths worth of investiture seems like a small ammount.  I think it has something to do with the investiture it steals from the host. Or possibly that Breaths are just a number, and that Nightblood actually has more investiture than I think. I really have trouble explaining that. Without understanding/explaining it's power source, here is my opinion on it's power level, as far as what it can do.

I still think that on a usefulness scale, the BoM is more powerful.  Just as a comparison.  I understand that it takes a heck of a lot of power to make something cut on all the realms.  And sure, it's cool to separate someones body from there soul. That's fine.  But if you can just rip someones body apart with one steelpush, and thus have virtual telekinesis, or move so fast no one can so much as touch you,  or be so lucky that Nightblood could never hit you anyway, does it really matter if Nightblood can separate your soul from your body?

That is my basic idea about Nightblood as far as power goes.  In a power match, I would rather have the BoM.  

Don't get me wrong, I love Nightblood.  Nightblood is awesome.  It's one of my favorite characters.  Most of my favorite scenes have Nightblood in them.  It is, in my mind, one of the coolest things ever.  But as far as practically usable power goes... Eh.  

At least until I know more about it.

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3 hours ago, Magestar said:

I understand that, technically, it is super-powered, and extremely powerful.  I just cannot understand for the life of me why.  I mean, 1000 breaths worth of investiture seems like a small ammount.  I think it has something to do with the investiture it steals from the host. Or possibly that Breaths are just a number, and that Nightblood actually has more investiture than I think. I really have trouble explaining that. Without understanding/explaining it's power source, here is my opinion on it's power level, as far as what it can do.

I still think that on a usefulness scale, the BoM is more powerful.  Just as a comparison.  I understand that it takes a heck of a lot of power to make something cut on all the realms.  And sure, it's cool to separate someones body from there soul. That's fine.  But if you can just rip someones body apart with one steelpush, and thus have virtual telekinesis, or move so fast no one can so much as touch you,  or be so lucky that Nightblood could never hit you anyway, does it really matter if Nightblood can separate your soul from your body?

That is my basic idea about Nightblood as far as power goes.  In a power match, I would rather have the BoM.  

Don't get me wrong, I love Nightblood.  Nightblood is awesome.  It's one of my favorite characters.  Most of my favorite scenes have Nightblood in them.  It is, in my mind, one of the coolest things ever.  But as far as practically usable power goes... Eh.  

At least until I know more about it.

Agreed on all accounts. I really feel like Nightblood should've been Invested with many more Breaths (say, 50,000 or 100,000) to have the power level and manufacturing difficulties that he is stated to have; with only 1,000, it's rather underwhelming and seems at odds with his capabilities. 

Likewise, Brandon has said the Bands don't even have a Shardblade's level of Investiture, yet with them you could massacre an army by yourself; it is strange power imbalances like this that I find disconcerting. 

(Although to speak of terrifying things: Nightblood in a highstorm....)

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We began to mix thing... More Investiture is not equal to more power.

For example the famous BoM are less Invested than a Shardblade (Not Nightblood, but of every kind of Shardblade) but in the end, the BoM puts a quite godlike power at his owner's comand.

There is a difference between how much Investiture you have and how you use it. There is probably a Realmatical Reason for Nightblood's level of power (I still think is in Nightblood's unbalance as a being and the contrast between Endowment's Intent and Nightblood's need. But I have no real proofs)

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3 hours ago, Yata said:

We began to mix thing... More Investiture is not equal to more power.

I'm not so sure.  Investiture is the energy/building block of the cosmere. I feel like investiture is equal to power, to some extent, otherwise things start to break down.  We can bandy terms here, but I still think it takes more power/investiture/magic/whatever to split someones soul from there body, but leave the body intact.  If it comes down to a practical use of power, well, there things get interesting.  You can't steelpush a rock without a ton of investiture behind you, but a simple Basic Lashing will send it flying.  It is a matter of practical use.  Shardblades have more power; If you took a shardblades investiture, and the Investiture of the BoM, to use my original example, and put them both behind a steelpush, then the Shardblade push would be more powerful.  However, the Shardblades immense power is tied up in cutting someone's soul from there body, and as cool as that is, it is not as practical as just ripping them apart.  It would be like building a giant machine to clip toenails, that runs on gasoline, as opposed to just cutting them yourself.  Sure the machine is cool, but if you can just cut them, why waste gasoline?

 

3 hours ago, Yata said:

For example the famous BoM are less Invested than a Shardblade (Not Nightblood, but of every kind of Shardblade) but in the end, the BoM puts a quite godlike power at his owner's comand

Exactly what I said earlier.

3 hours ago, Yata said:

There is a difference between how much Investiture you have and how you use it. There is probably a Realmatical Reason for Nightblood's level of power (I still think is in Nightblood's unbalance as a being and the contrast between Endowment's Intent and Nightblood's need. But I have no real proofs)

This is what gets me.  The first sentance sounds great, and I refer to my toenail clipper.  As for the second, I start to get confused.  I think the answer must lie in the fact that Nightblood uses investiture more effectively, or actually has more than we think.

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5 hours ago, Magestar said:

This is what gets me.  The first sentance sounds great, and I refer to my toenail clipper.  As for the second, I start to get confused.  I think the answer must lie in the fact that Nightblood uses investiture more effectively, or actually has more than we think.

Sorry I made myself unclear.

I want to say that be a lot Invested may give you some passive benefit of Investiture (for example Investiture interference) but don't mean that those Investiture is actively used to performe the same feats. Just a couple of stupid examples: if I use a rock in my hand to hit someone instead to punch it. The rock is less Invested of my hand but hurt more, another less idiot, example... If a Returned fights a pewterarm in a close hand to hand combat, the pewterarm would be probably more powerful than the Returned, but the returned is a lot more Invested.

The Investiture is the core block of the cosmere, like matter-energy is our own core blook. But be a more dense object didn't mean that you are more "powerful" than another.

The investiture needs to be directed to perfome some effect, it's the same difference between raw material and a tool.

Instead if you are confused by my idea of Nightblood power, you may find it in this topic in a my early post. But in we words:

Nightblood is an incomplete/flawed Splinter (maybe because Vasher's project isn't too good) and He need more Investiture than the amount he has to express his full power (Nightblood can't keep his full Mind and his full Power at the same time) and Nightblood drain the Investiture of someone who bond with it....But as Endowment's  creature take with force something is aganist Endowment's Intent and he can't keep it... therefore Nightblood leaks away those Investiture corrupted because it's Endowment's Investiture taken with force (of for the Twisted Nightblood), and in the end He doesn't gain new Investiture."

I am waiting to see, how Nightblood works with another kind of Investiture.

Edited by Yata
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I think that the reason nightblood is so op is because of his ability to adapt to change of magic, it has yet to be proven in the stormlight 3

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Important note: Vasher, who probably knows more about Awakening than anyone else alive, told Siri the most important thing to know was how little they truly know about the magic. I don't think even Vasher understands how Nightblood works off of "only" 1000 breaths. 

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The thing is, Shardblades are in fact designed to be weapons (with patterning over Honorblades and things like that), so it's natural they are very good weapons.

But Nightblood on the other hand... I mean, Awakening's basic mechanism is to animate things, to give them a pretence of life, transforming them to somewhat humanoid things. This isn't exactly a very suitable magic system to make a weapon. So a lot of Breaths came in just to make the sword alive and everything else is kind of side effect just so Nightblood could carry out his Command.

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Also, one thing I think is being underplayed is how valuable Breath is. Being a drab kinda sucks, and you have to remember every Breath was taken from a person. So it took 20,000 people becoming drabs just for Vasher/Shashara whichever actually made Nightblood to have the Heightening, and then another 1,000 people becoming drabs just to create Nightblood. This gives him sentience, but he still has to feed off breath to actually fight. Every time he's used he's corrupting what was formerly someone's only spark of Investiture. So aside from Nightblood's awesome powers, there's also the cost of how he gains those powers to keep in mind. That's pretty "overpowered" and "dangerous" to me. 

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1 hour ago, Radiant Returned said:

So aside from Nightblood's awesome powers, there's also the cost of how he gains those powers to keep in mind. That's pretty "overpowered" and "dangerous" to me. 

I'd actually argue that having to constantly feed him Investiture just so you could wield him makes him a worse weapon, not a better one. I mean, Shardblade requires no Stormlight to function and you can swing it around all you want. Draw Nightblood and not only you're put on a timer, but also you keep losing Investiture (what's even worse, Nalthis is not a place that Investiture can be easily obtained - on Sel Nightblood could probably feed on the Dor flowing through Elantrians, on Scadrial perhaps burning a metal could be enough, Roshar has Stormlight...).

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Bit of a dead post, but I would like to add that we have not seen all that Nightblood is capable of. Brandon has said that when he starts drawing huge amounts of investiture that he can do some "very freaky things".

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