Stormfather theory, a little more fleshed out [SF 5 Prologue Spoilers]

[Erklitt]

There have been different threads theorizing about the 'stormfaker' in the SA 5 prologue. Putting all those good observations together, and rereading the prologue and some older scenes, this is my theory:

The Stormfather is showing Gavilar the visions, but most of their communication is being usurped by Ishar, who, as we know, has a way of interfering with bonds.

Thanks to the lettering (italics/all-caps) we know exactly when the true Stormfather speaks. It's four sentences. [Edit: thanks, @Reckoner89, just found again who made me realize this!]

Ishar's goal really is to make Gavilar a herald, to replace himself in the oathpact. As it's original author he actually knows how to do this, how to make heralds and to bond and presumably unbond them. His motive is certainly egotistical (getting out of torture), but despite his madness his ulterior motives aren't evil. He is shocked by Gavilar's not even wanting to try to give Roshar time between desolations.

He thought he had enough time for his plans: after Taln has upheld the oathpact for so long, why shouldn't he continue to do so?

But then Chana dies*, and the next desolation is suddenly on the doorstep. Ishar is 'not ready': he doesn't have a replacement yet. And 'they musn't see [or] know', because if [presumably the other heralds] knew, they'd probably come to him for guidance pretty soon, robbing him of the chance to surprise them with his successor and a relieved 'Too late, I'm out.'

Apart from his lies, he also knows things that I doubt the Stormfather knows. While honor lived, the true Stormfather was barely sentient, and as a spren he is a true creature of Roshar. Yet Gavilar's interlocutor estimates that it took the heralds one or two millenia to go mad, and seems pretty cosmere-aware, recognizing Seons. Also: '[Immortality] is not so grand as you think it to be.' and 'Everyone you know will be dust by the time you return...' Sounds like personal experience to me.

 
* As for knowing about Chana's death: since it's not 'death-death' the other heralds don't feel it, but as bondsmith and oathpact-creator I find it plausible that Ishar alone among them does.

Edited April 8, 2022 by Erklitt
Added a credit

[+Let's Destroy Some Evil]

Damn, now I have to go back and re-read it.  I knew something was off with the SF but couldn't quite place my finger on it.  I think as I was reading I knew he was going to break the "bond" he has with Gavilar (or G's death would break it, etc).  When I realized that I retroactively assumed then that the SF went through a similar experience as Syl did when her old Knight died.  I still kinda like my theory but this is WAAAY more compelling, with less leaps.

Now that I'm thinking a little more now though....  how does Ishar actually keep it from the SF that he's interloping, and why (if the actual SF is aware) doesn't he alert Gavilar?  there's something definitely up here, but I've now convinced myself of like 3 different theories lol!

Freakin' Ishar is going to end up being the Daenarys of this series.  I actually want to like him, he seems super OP and working a rust ton of different angles.  But I have the sinking feeling he's going to turn out to be the most unhinged and unpredictable and do something world-breakingly catastrophic.  SIGH

[Serack]

Reserved.

I've spent some time writing on this, but my view has shifted as I re-listened and read others opinions.  I'll probably re-write my bulleted opinions here revising my earlier post with my newer understandings.  I also need to read the text version.  

[King-A-Train]

I am so on the fence with the Stormfather versus Stormfaker argument I’m getting splinters. 

He does sound different, but is that early drafting issues? or lack of a bond? (he never says much until after Dalinar bonds him), or does his failure with Gavilar change him?

The Ishar theory is a little contrived, but believable. But how does the Stormfather not notice his involvement? We know the Stormfather had some connection to Gavilar, it can’t all be Ishar. 

[+robardin]

I'm firmly in Camp Stormfaker

Whatever is going on for Gavilar to see Honor's visions, it's not through a burgeoning spren bond, as Gavilar intentionally tests if the "Stormfather" can hear his thoughts or only insert into his head, and FSF (Fake Stormfather) does not

But the real SF definitely hears Dalinar thinking to himself, not just directly addressing him

 

[Frustration]

40 minutes ago, robardin said:

But the real SF definitely hears Dalinar thinking to himself, not just directly addressing him

Where?

And even if he does Kal notes that Syl can only sometimes hear his thoughts.

Edited April 9, 2022 by Frustration

[+robardin]

6 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Where?

And even if he does Kal notes that Syl can only sometimes hear his thoughts.

What I meant is that Gavilar always has to speak aloud to the FSF for them to pick up. As if to an avatar of sorts, not via a mental bond. Dalinar, Kaladin, and Shallan often have completely mental two-way conversations with their spren.

[Frustration]

2 minutes ago, robardin said:

What I meant is that Gavilar always has to speak aloud to the FSF for them to pick up. As if to an avatar of sorts, not via a mental bond. Dalinar, Kaladin, and Shallan often have completely mental two-way conversations with their spren.

They have also all sworn oaths.

[Green Hoodie Mistborn]

On 4/6/2022 at 8:18 AM, Erklitt said:

Thanks to the lettering (italics/all-caps) we know exactly when the true Stormfather speaks. It's four sentences. [Edit: thanks, @Reckoner89, just found again who made me realize this!]

I'm not sure where I stand on Father/Faker stuff yet, but where are you getting the above? There's no published version that I know of yet, just fan transcriptions.

[KaladinWorldsinger]

3 hours ago, Green Hoodie Mistborn said:

I'm not sure where I stand on Father/Faker stuff yet, but where are you getting the above? There's no published version that I know of yet, just fan transcriptions.

Quote

https://www.brandonsanderson.com/prologue-to-stormlight-5/