nightblood Does Nightblood have enough cognitive presence to act as a spren?

[Gwylon]

Theory: Nightblood exists enough in the cognitive realm to act as a spren and facilitate a Nahel bond.

 

It sounds a bit out there but I want to see peoples thoughts on this.

[Voidus]

Pretty much, it would be similar to a nahel bond IIRC but not exactly the same. There's definitely some WoB on this somewhere.

[Young Bard]

I will kill those who are evil, even when I'm not particularly sure what evil is.

 

On a more serious note, I don't think it would work exactly that way. A Nahel Bond works two ways, sentience on one side, fancy magic powers on the other. Nightblood already has sentience (to a degree), and what sort of magic powers would it bestow?

 

WoR spoiler:

Particularly since it's current owner, Szeth, is a Skybreaker, and there are multiple Skybreakers before the Recreance who definitely weren't bonded to Nightblood... so, either:

 

a ) Nightblood hasn't actually "bonded" to Szeth

b ) Szeth can have multiple Nahel bonds going at once.

 

Both of these seem pretty unlikely. If you can find a way around this, good luck!

[Blaze1616]

WoR spoiler:

Particularly since it's current owner, Szeth, is a Skybreaker, and there are multiple Skybreakers before the Recreance who definitely weren't bonded to Nightblood... so, either:

 

a ) Nightblood hasn't actually "bonded" to Szeth

b ) Szeth can have multiple Nahel bonds going at once.

 

Both of these seem pretty unlikely. If you can find a way around this, good luck!

 

Response to spoiler

Keep in mind that Szeth is a Skybreaker in name only. We have seen no evidence of a spren, nor do we have any evidence that spren bend to a Herald's will, and so Nalan dubbing Szeth a Skybreaker does not mean a spren suddenly bonds him. Now, it's quite possible that Nalan knows Szeth has the right "stuff", and as such is influencing him in such a way as to most likely attract a spren, but we've yet to see that.

[The Honor Spren]

Is any one else of the opinion, that Nightblood is more like an Honorblade?

Nightblood fed off of Vasher's breath to fight. Honorblades feed off of Stormlight, sort of. Will it work the same way on Roshar for Nightblood?

[The Sovereign]

Is any one else of the opinion, that Nightblood is more like an Honorblade?

Nightblood fed off of Vasher's breath to fight. Honorblades feed off of Stormlight, sort of. Will it work the same way on Roshar for Nightblood?

I think Nightblood is something like the middleground between a Sprenblade and an honor blade. Nightblood seems to bond similarly to a spren bond but he will "eat" stormlight similary to an Honorblade. He is a sentinent Honorblade if you will.

 

A few notes from WoB:

 

Question

How is it that Nightblood, who is merely a near-sentient awakened object, was able to read minds, something a Shard like Ruin was unable to do?

Brandon Sanderson

It requires bonding (with the person whose mind is to be read) to read minds.

 

And I am having trouble finding the relevant WoB... damnation phone... but Brandon has stated that a Seon bond would act like a Nahel Bond on Roshar but would give different abilities.

 

From these we can determine that Nightblood has formed some kind of bond with Szeth as he speaks into his mind (although the bond doesn't seem as exclusive as the Seon or Nahel bond seeing as Nightblood also spoke into Vasher's and Vivienne's heads). And based on the Selish bond we can make an educated guess that Nightblood will also give some powers to Szeth.

Edited July 30, 2015 by Iron Eyes

[Green Hoodie Mistborn]

Well we have WoB that Nightblood = Shardblade though many times more powerful. 

 

So if Nightblood = Shardblade, and Shardblade = Spren, then Nightblood should = Spren. 

 

I've theorized before that Nightblood is or functions like an artificially created spren created when the Awakeners funneled ~2000 breaths into the sword to create him. 

[Shardbearer]

There is also a WOB that Nightblood could technically bond a spren (but basically impossible in actual practice), so I'd say no.

 

I'd quote or link the WOB, but this computer isn't letting me paste here. On theoryland it's question two on the WOR London signing.

[The Sovereign]

There is also a WOB that Nightblood could technically bond a spren (but basically impossible in actual practice), so I'd say no.

 

I'd quote or link the WOB, but this computer isn't letting me paste here. On theoryland it's question two on the WOR London signing.

I've got you Shardbearer.

Sabrina Stormshard

Could an awakened sentient object (e.g Nightblood ) bond a spren?

Brandon Sanderson

Technically but the specific circumstances you would need are so bizarre, in practice no.

[Moogle]

This recent WoB is of note:

Q: Can Nogntblood be considered a splinter and does it function like a spren realmatically, are there distinct differences is what I'm asking.
A: Nightblood is kind of his own strange thing. He's an attempt to use one magic to replicate something in another. He's closest to a spren, but kind of like a...robot spren, for lack of better words to use.
(source)

[Green Hoodie Mistborn]

This recent WoB is of note:

 

Woohoo! My hacked A.I. spren is accurate

[Gwylon]

Could NIghtblood learn to copy the Skybreaker/Highsprens Nahel bond? I mean, Syl says that spren learn to copy the Honourblades and provide surgebinding abilities so surely Nightblood could do the same?

[Moogle]

Could NIghtblood learn to copy the Skybreaker/Highsprens Nahel bond? I mean, Syl says that spren learn to copy the Honourblades and provide surgebinding abilities so surely Nightblood could do the same?

 

Nahel bonding spren on Roshar are pieces of Cultivation and Honor, the Shards behind Surgebinding. Nightblood is of Endowment. I doubt he can replicate a Surgebinding bond.

Edited August 4, 2015 by Moogle
i am a horrible person who typos horrifically

[WeiryWriter]

Nahel bonding spren on Roshar are pieces of Preservation and Honor

 

psst Moogle you might want to read this part again

[Argent]

psst Moogle you might want to read this part again

 

Eh, Preservation, Cultivation, Motivation, Restoration... Easy to confuse. I wonder if there is a Restoration Shard...

 

As for Nightblood's potential Surgebinding-granting ability, we have to consider why it is that spren give their Radiants control over the Surges. Spren, being (mostly) cognitive entities native to Roshar, presumably can reach into the spiritual realm a little bit and play with the laws there, because that's where the fundamental forces come from. Nightblood, however, has a cognitive aspect native to another Shardworld, Nightblood is of Endowment, not Honor and/or Cultivation. This, to me, suggests one of three things:

• Nightblood grants abilities completely different from the ones Honorblades / spren do because he is native to a different Shard
• Nightblood grants Surges identical, or at least similar, to the ones Honorblades / spren do because his physical location is inside the sphere of influence of Honor/Cultivation's Shardworld
• Nightblood doesn't grant any additional abilities because he is not a spren

[The Sovereign]

 

 This, to me, suggests one of three things:

• Nightblood grants abilities completely different from the ones Honorblades / spren do because he is native to a different Shard
• Nightblood grants Surges identical, or at least similar, to the ones Honorblades / spren do because his physical location is inside the sphere of influence of Honor/Cultivation's Shardworld
• Nightblood doesn't grant any additional abilities because he is not a spren

 

I found the WoB that I couldn't find before. I think, using this as precedence, that your first theory is most likely.

 

Outis

If an Elantrian bonded to a Seon and traveled to Roshar, would that act as a Nahel bond?

Brandon Sanderson

It would act very very similarly, yes. But it would be like… it wouldn't necesarily do the exact same things. It would be treated the exact same way, but wouldn't grant the same powers.

Edited August 4, 2015 by Iron Eyes

[AndrewStirlingMacDonald]

I think I'm going to agree with Green Hoodie Mistborn on the whole "If Shardblade = Spren and Nightblood = Shardblade then Nightblood = Spren."

It makes sense that a nahel bond wouldn't manifest exactly the same way because he is a unique, one-of-a-kind spren. He is the only "Destroy Evil" spren around. I guarentee that if another unique, one-of-a-kind spren bonded a KR (the Stormfather, for instance), you'd also see "different" powers.

 

And now I want somebody to bond the Stormfather. Galladon. I want Galladon to bond the Stormfather, and then constantly complain that it's always raining.

[Ansalem]

I think I'm going to agree with Green Hoodie Mistborn on the whole "If Shardblade = Spren and Nightblood = Shardblade then Nightblood = Spren."

It makes sense that a nahel bond wouldn't manifest exactly the same way because he is a unique, one-of-a-kind spren. He is the only "Destroy Evil" spren around. I guarentee that if another unique, one-of-a-kind spren bonded a KR (the Stormfather, for instance), you'd also see "different" powers.

 

And now I want somebody to bond the Stormfather. Galladon. I want Galladon to bond the Stormfather, and then constantly complain that it's always raining.

 

I feel strange asking this because I think simply asking it might be a potential spoiler, but... have you read Words of Radiance?

[AndrewStirlingMacDonald]

I have, but it's possible that I missed something. I didn't read the Cosmere books in the order in which they were published (I read Mistborn first, followed by the two Sunlight, then Warbreaker, then Elantris, then the shorts, and finally The Emperor's Soul). I want really steeped in Cosmeric lore or Realmatic theory when I read it. I'm rereading my way through the Cosmere now, and just started Way of Kings (it's my third time reading it, and when I get to Words of Radiance, it will be my second time). Did I miss something significant?

[natc]

The fact that the Stormfather is already bonded as of WoR?

[Ansalem]

The fact that the Stormfather is already bonded as of WoR?

 

Yep, this is what I was referring to. It's a pretty major plot point in the book is why I was asking.

[AndrewStirlingMacDonald]

Well, my wife just reminded me of that scene. Very forgetful of me.

[Lumen]

 

 

Question

How is it that Nightblood, who is merely a near-sentient awakened object, was able to read minds, something a Shard like Ruin was unable to do?

Brandon Sanderson

It requires bonding (with the person whose mind is to be read) to read minds.

 

 

 

Outis

If an Elantrian bonded to a Seon and traveled to Roshar, would that act as a Nahel bond?

Brandon Sanderson

It would act very very similarly, yes. But it would be like… it wouldn't necesarily do the exact same things. It would be treated the exact same way, but wouldn't grant the same powers.

 

Repeating from another thread.  Our "Robot Spren" friend forms a bond with someone in order to talk to them.  And he can form as many bonds as he wants (he talks to a lot of people).  Similar to Seon's, this bond, on Roshar, should do something (but not, of course,  the surges associated with the other KR spren).  

 

We know that Vasher requires breath to survive.  Somehow, he is able to use stormlight to the same purpose.  I think, from what we know, it is likely that the "talking bond" Nightblood creates is enough to allow folks access to breathing in Stormlight.   I think it is reasonable to assume that anything all Knights Radiant have in common (not specific surges) would be shared with anyone that bonds with Nightblood (or Seon).  That is, for example, breathing in Stormlight, and using it for healing

 

Note:  Lopen is somehow associated with Syl's bond (through Kaladin, or in some other manner).  This very minor bond gives him access to stormlight & healing.   Don't see why Nightblood can't duplicate that with his minor bond that allows speech.  I wonder if Syl does the same thing.  That is, Kaladin's Squires have something like a "talking bond" to Syl.  So Syl could talk to them, if she wanted to.

[DreamEternal]

Well, my wife just reminded me of that scene. Very forgetful of me.

Of course, if the teory that all bondsmiths bond the Stormfather( hey, nowhere it says the nahel bond us always one-on-one, and the Stormfather is on his own category when it comes to powers and limitations), then you could still have Galladon complaining(also, am I the only one who noticed that his name is a perfect exemple of vorin naming conventions, even if he came from a different planet?)

[Patrick Star]

Maybe?  He definitely has enough of a presence.  He's got far more investiture than a radiantspren.  However, I'm not sure if the Nahel Bond is a mechanic exclusive to radiantspren.