A theory about Yolen and the 4th Era of Mistborn

[Rasarr]

First of all, I don't have Arcanum Unbounded yet, so if there's anything pertaining to this topic in there that wasn't in the publicly available excerpts, I don't know it.

Alright, so we know that something bad happened to Yolen, which made all humans who survived it relocate elsewhere and all Shards to go away as well. We also know that Yolen is not reachable through the Cognitive Realm. I think that this has less to do with Adonalsium shattering (though that's certainly a factor), and more with something called fain. 

Now, for those who didn't read the Liar of Partinel excerpt that Brandon has published on his website (LoP was his unpublished novel about Hoid's origins), fain was a sort-of infection/parasite that turned everything white and inedible to both humans and animals while "Corrupting" living things. The excerpt doesn't really specify what Corruption does, but it's bad enough that one character considers killing children rather than banishing them into fainlands. Of course, Liar of Partinel hasn't been published and isn't really canon in its current form, but in the Google Play excerpt of Arcanum Unbounded (well, I suppose it's in the full version of AU as well), Khriss makes a reference to fain on Yolen, which means that it does exist in canon and presumably has similar corruptive properties.

So what if everyone on Yolen decided to abandon ship because fain was overrunning everything? I don't really want to go into the topic of a potential connection between Adonalsium's shattering and fain here, but I have the following theory: the surviving people of Yolen left their homeworld to run away from fain, and the Shards did something in the Cognitive to stop anything from coming to or leaving the planet to prevent some adventurous worldhopper from accidentally bringing fain with them and starting the cycle all over again elsewhere. In other worlds, Yolen has been quarantained.

How does that pertain to Mistborn Era 4, though? Well, in this era, the people of Scadrial will have faster-than-light travel. Imagine if it was FTL travel that does not require jumping into the Cognitive Realm. With technology like this, Shards' quarantaine of Yolen would have all the stopping power of tissue paper, which means that some FTL-capable ship could either stumble upon it or deliberately travel there. So imagine this happens. They go to the planet's surface to investigate, find nothing worth seeing - or worse yet, find fain life and decide to take samples - get back on their ship and go on their merry way... with an unwanted extra passenger on board. Then they reach an inhabited planet, go to visit the surface and thus fain spreads again.

In conclusion: I think fain and fain-corrupted creatures will be the primary antagonist of the final Mistborn trilogy.

[Toaster Retribution]

Nice theory! Sounds plausible, even if I hope that Yolen is unaccessible because of something more... mysterious.

[Pagerunner]

21 minutes ago, Rasarr said:

Alright, so we know that something bad happened to Yolen, which made all humans who survived it relocate elsewhere and all Shards to go away as well. We also know that Yolen is not reachable through the Cognitive Realm. I think that this has less to do with Adonalsium shattering (though that's certainly a factor), and more with something called fain. 

I don't think we know this. To the contrary, I think Yolen is still inhabited, and hasn't been completely taken over by the fain life. Frost, the recipient of Hoid's Letter, is not a worldhopper, so he must still be on Yolen.

When Brandon was working on Liar, the plan for Dragonsteel was to be a two-part Liar of Partinel duology, then a time-jump of several hundred years or so, then a 5-book main sequence. Those of us who haven't read Dragonsteel don't know much about it, but it did contain the original Shattered Plains sequence, which were stolen for Stormlight. From what we've seen in the Liar previews, I don't think the fain life wouldn't make much sense as the antagonist of a Shattered Plains story.

[Yata]

Rasarr I had only a doubt, but it's a big one.

Frost is a Yolish Dragon and Brandon said it's not a Worldhopper...this mean He is on Yolen (for the definition of worldhopper). Hoid is capable of sending and reciving message from him and Frost invited him to join wherever He is.

 

[Chaos]

This is also my thought here. Brandon has said for a long time an inspiration of the cosmere is Asimov's Foundation series, which in its last book, Foundation and Earth, Asimov connected his Foundation series to his earlier stuff, notably the Robot series. That book is set in a late stage Galactic Empire where humanity has wildly spread, but no one knows where the origin planet was. In Foundation and Earth the main characters go to find that origin planet.

I would be exactly zero surprised if such a quest to find Yolen was a major part of Era 4. (I find this to be cool, because Foundation's Edge, the book right before Foundation and Earth, is one of my favorite books.) Yes please.

As for having humans make an exodus from Yolen, I think it is still inhabited as well. What makes you think Yolen is not inhabited? 

[Pagerunner]

8 minutes ago, Chaos said:

This is also my thought here. Brandon has said for a long time an inspiration of the cosmere is Asimov's Foundation series, which in its last book, Foundation and Earth, Asimov connected his Foundation series to his earlier stuff, notably the Robot series. That book is set in a late stage Galactic Empire where humanity has wildly spread, but no one knows where the origin planet was. In Foundation and Earth the main characters go to find that origin planet.

I would be exactly zero surprised if such a quest to find Yolen was a major part of Era 4. (I find this to be cool, because Foundation's Edge, the book right before Foundation and Earth, is one of my favorite books.) Yes please.

As for having humans make an exodus from Yolen, I think it is still inhabited as well. What makes you think Yolen is not inhabited? 

What a great idea about Foundation parallels. (It's at the bottom.) Hoid is the total Mule to Taravingian's psychohistory.

[Chaos]

23 minutes ago, Pagerunner said:

What a great idea about Foundation parallels. (It's at the bottom.) Hoid is the total Mule to Taravingian's psychohistory.

Agreed Have an upvote, since I missed that post. I heartily agree, obviously.

[Rasarr]

@Pagerunner, @Yata, thanks for that reminder. I have to admit, I forgot that Frost was on Yolen, so I guess my theory needs a small revision. It's quite likely that there are still some people (and a dragon) living on Yolen. I assumed it's uninhabited because fain in Liar of Partinel was slowly encroaching on human settlements, meaning there was less and less food every year, but I suppose some small community of people (and a dragon) could still live there.

As for how Yolen can be cut off from the galaxy and yet Hoid has a pen pal there, I honestly have no idea. Maybe they communicate by something along the lines of super-sophisticated spanreed, but that's going deep into tinfoil hat territory.

[Weltall]

Since we know Mistborn Era 4 is supposed to be the big Cosmeric crossover, I could definitely see FTL explorers reaching Yolen to be a major development in the story.

1 hour ago, Chaos said:

As for having humans make an exodus from Yolen, I think it is still inhabited as well. What makes you think Yolen is not inhabited? 

We actually have indirect WoB that it is still inhabited.

Quote

Question: Is the only reason that Yolen is not reachable, according to Khriss, because it doesn’t have any sentience on it thinking of it as a planet, so it doesn’t appear in the Cognitive?

Brandon Sanderson: Ahh, no. Good question, but no.

Implication: There's still thinking life there. And on top of that Brandon has said that Frost is from Yolen (dragon, natch) and isn't considered a Worldhopper, implying that he at least is still there.

Edited November 23, 2016 by Weltall

[Pagerunner]

11 minutes ago, Rasarr said:

As for how Yolen can be cut off from the galaxy and yet Hoid has a pen pal there, I honestly have no idea. Maybe they communicate by something along the lines of super-sophisticated spanreed, but that's going deep into tinfoil hat territory.

Let's make sure we're not getting confused. Per Khriss, Yolen is hidden, not necessarily inaccessible:

Quote

"There is an original, shrouded and hidden somewhere in the cosmere. I've yet to find it, but I have found stories."

Taldain is the planet that's Brandon has referred to as "currently inaccessible," with Khriss "in exile" in Secret History. From AU:

Quote

Autonomy's policy of isolationism in recent years (in direct contrast to her interference with other planets, I might add) has prevented travel to and from Taldain for many, many years.

There have been several proposals for why Khriss can't find Yolen:

• No Cognitive Activity (debunked)
• Hidden by a Shard (my personal opinion is that Frost is a Shard on Yolen trying to keep it isolated)
• Blockaded to prevent the fain life (now where did I hear that one...)
• She has found it, she just calls it by a different name

But each of those theories comes with assumptions, and it's very easy to conflate what we know of Yolen's situation (very little) with what we know of Taldain's situation. If it's hard to find, not necessarily hard to reach, then someone who already knows where it is (Hoid) would be able to get there no problem.

[PallonianFire]

12 minutes ago, Pagerunner said:

She has found it, she just calls it by a different name

How mad would we all be if Vax is Yolen?

[Weltall]

That would be distinctly odd since Ati mentions Vax and, well, he's from Yolen and probably shouldn't be confused on this point.  And since Vax is mentioned in the Elantris 10th Ars Arcana and details of Yolish life are mentioned in Arcanum Unbounded, it means that Khriss knows something about both worlds. If they were one and the same, she'd probably have noticed the whole 'fain life' thing and connected the dots.

But in seriousness, my current guess is that if Vax is something we've seen before (ie, that it's not a co\mpletely new concept to us) then it's more likely to be a new name for the setting of the 'unpublished but Brandon has suggested he'll do something with it eventually; Aether of Night. We know some concepts from that were lifted and placed into Mistborn so it would be funny if Leras and Ati wound up having something to do with that setting in the ultimately published story, bringing the borrowing full circle.

Edited November 23, 2016 by Weltall

[PallonianFire]

Yeah, I'm not actually saying I think that Yolen is Vax. Just that we'd all be very put out if it were haha. I agree that I think Vax is the AoN world, and that Ati's comment is a nod to the original roots of his Shard

[Thanatos]

Good theory will have to mull over it abit. and provide my thought.

Ive have a small suspension that the great bright sun in the cognitive realm is Adonalsium cognitive shadow.... which is on Yolan.

The circular part being Yolan and the brightness being Adonalsium. or as my lil bro says uncle Andy.

 

Tenebris 

--

Edit.

The only ones who have said Yolan is hidden are ones who are born 'after' the shattering.

Edited November 24, 2016 by Thanatos

[ZenBossanova]

I think it is important to notice The Red Rip / Taln's Scar or simply, The Scar on the star chart. We know Yolen has (or had) dragons and that the Scar constellation was a dragon. I think Yolen is in the Scar.

We know that the fain-life on Yolen withstood even Adonalsium, pre-shattering. We know that the fain-life had killed gods (Hoid referred to Yolen as a place where gods died) and had killed most of the population, life and land. 

Perhaps it has even spread to the stars themselves. After all, if it can withstand Adonalsium, then what is really so hard about a solar inferno? I think the fain life is killing those stars, and whatever planets they have. It is spreading outward and Hoid knows it is just a matter of time. That is why he would even let a planet like Roshar die, because he thinks they are all dead, if he fails. 

I am not sure that chronologically earlier stories mention the Scar, or they don't make it sound as big. This is admittedly an argument from ignorance because there are very few references to the Scar. But the references we have are mostly later ones.

This could also be a reason that Autonomy is acting so isolationist. 

The Scar is the fain-life killing stars, and expanding outward. 

[Djarskublar]

Quote

We know that the fain-life on Yolen withstood even Adonalsium, pre-shattering. We know that the fain-life had killed gods (Hoid referred to Yolen as a place where gods died) and had killed most of the population, life and land. 

Ummm. Fallacy. 'my brother died so he was murdered' would be an equivalent statement. Definitely post hoc. Gods died there, it says zero about what killed them. Likely each other. I would be extremely surprised if the fain managed to affect a Shard.

Also, my opinion would be that Mr A would have left the fain because it tried the hearts of men or something. Mr A probably created it in the first place.

[Yata]

It's possible that Adonalsium created also the fain life as "second wave of creation" (just because it replaces the first one, it may be a new form of life. Not only a destroyer) or as "expiration date for the Cosmere" (if we think He created temporary Universes in sequence)

I didn't read the Liar's chapter (to be honest I wanted, but I don't find it) therefore I can't know if there are reference to the Adonalsium's attitude with his creation or the fain life....or if he bother at all

Edited November 24, 2016 by Yata

[Pagerunner]

2 hours ago, Yata said:

It's possible that Adonalsium created also the fain life as "second wave of creation" (just because it replace the first one, it may be a new form of life. Not only a destroyer) or as "expiration date for the Cosmere" (if we think He created temporary Universe in sequence)

I didn't read the Liar's chapter (to be honest I wanted, but I don't find it) therefore I can't know if there are reference to the Adonalsium's attitude with his creation or the fain life....or if he bother at all

You mean this excerpt?

[Rasarr]

Good point with Yolen being hidden, not blocked. So, version 1.3 of this theory: Yolen has been hidden by Shards to quarantine it and stop fain from spreading, but some beings (such as Shards, Hoid and Frost) know how to find it, leaving a communication channel between those who left and those who remained open. The quarantine doesn't need to stop them from coming, as they know it's a bad idea, it only has to stop other, less fain-aware worldhoppers from finding their way here. Which still leaves Yolen open from the Physical side of things.

As an aside, I wonder how Yolen was "hidden". The CogRealm seems to be a giant flat plain for the most part, perhaps they moved Yolen beneath that "ground level"?

[PallonianFire]

8 hours ago, Yata said:

It's possible that Adonalsium created also the fain life as "second wave of creation" (just because it replace the first one, it may be a new form of life. Not only a destroyer) or as "expiration date for the Cosmere" (if we think He created temporary Universe in sequence)

You know, this would kinda make sense. What if they banded together to Shatter Adonalsium to try to stop the spread of fain?

[ZenBossanova]

Then why would Hoid be interested in recreating Adonalsium? (assuming that is what he is doing)

That would be suicide for the entire cosmere. The fain-life left humanity on Yolen hanging on the edge of survival.

[Weltall]

13 hours ago, ZenBossanova said:

Perhaps it has even spread to the stars themselves. After all, if it can withstand Adonalsium, then what is really so hard about a solar inferno? I think the fain life is killing those stars, and whatever planets they have. It is spreading outward and Hoid knows it is just a matter of time. That is why he would even let a planet like Roshar die, because he thinks they are all dead, if he fails.

 

11 hours ago, Yata said:

It's possible that Adonalsium created also the fain life as "second wave of creation" (just because it replaces the first one, it may be a new form of life. Not only a destroyer) or as "expiration date for the Cosmere" (if we think He created temporary Universes in sequence)

.Ooh, both of these are neat ideas!

12 hours ago, Djarskublar said:

Gods died there, it says zero about what killed them. Likely each other. I would be extremely surprised if the fain managed to affect a Shard.

For what it's worth, the sample chapters of Liar of Partinel claim that the Skullmoss and fain life were born from the corpses of the gods, so assuming that part stays more or less intact in canon (and Hoid talks about gods dying in Warbreaker so it seems a reasonable assumption for now) there's some connection between the two things. Which doesn't necessarily rule out any of the other ideas floating around here, since we know virtually nothing about Yolen's other 'gods' and how they and Adonalsium relate to one another.

[Jondesu]

So I wonder now, based on a few of the things speculated here, what if the fain life is spreading beyond Yolen, but not by Adolnasium's design?

What if the Shattering, in addition to leaving the Shards, also sent smaller bits of Adolnasium's Investiture flying out through the Cosmere?

And what if some of those pieces passed through and picked up portions of the fain life (we don't know why it works the way it does, so it could be Investiture itself rather than biological, which would make sense from the way it behaves, to me), and that is now spreading out from Yolen?

That could be the reason for the Scar, as the fain life destroys even stars, causing them to burn cooler and turn the stars red (I think that's why they'd be red, anyone with astronomy backgrounds could correct me if needed).

[ZenBossanova]

35 minutes ago, Jondesu said:

So I wonder now, based on a few of the things speculated here, what if the fain life is spreading beyond Yolen, but not by Adolnasium's design?

What if the Shattering, in addition to leaving the Shards, also sent smaller bits of Adolnasium's Investiture flying out through the Cosmere?

And what if some of those pieces passed through and picked up portions of the fain life (we don't know why it works the way it does, so it could be Investiture itself rather than biological, which would make sense from the way it behaves, to me), and that is now spreading out from Yolen?

That could be the reason for the Scar, as the fain life destroys even stars, causing them to burn cooler and turn the stars red (I think that's why they'd be red, anyone with astronomy backgrounds could correct me if needed).

I don't have an astronomy background, but I do have physics. And yes, a lot of stars, including our own, die by entering a red giant phase. Red is cooler in color than the blue end of the spectrum. 

So, are those just old stars (possible, Yolen is probably really old) or is something really killing them? 

In Liar of Partinel, there was an aether (which is kind of a spren/crystal?) that said it was possible to defeat the fain-life, but nobody had any idea how. 

That suggests it was not created by Adonalsium. 

[ROSHtaFARian2.0]

This line of discussion makes me think of this old theory I proposed here though that was a long time and new information makes it in desperate need of re-evaluating. (Specifically all we know now about Adonalsium's influence or presence on Roshar pre-Shattering means that whatever Adonalsium's true nature, there was at least some time during which it was active around the cosmere beyond just Yolen, but I digress).

Point is, the fain life and where they fit in with the greater cosmere picture depends largely on how they relate to Adonalsium. For instance....they are said in LoP to have arisen from the corpses of the dead gods.....I'm still waiting to find out these dead gods' relation to Adonalsium. Were they its peers, was Adonalsium but one of many originally, the only survivor and thus it (and the Shards splintered from it) vulnerable to something that was essentially created from the remnants of its fallen peers.....or was Adonalsium a successor to these dead gods or a higher power than these dead gods, and thus the solution to defeating the fain life.